Joe Quesada's legacy?

Matthew

This is something I have been wondering about for awhile. What do you guys feel will be Joe Quesada's legacy at Marvel?

Joe Q has done some very controversial stuff, such as bringing in Dark Reign, the recent spat of epic crossovers and, of course, the pretty much universally loathed One More Day. Quesada has earned many comparison's to one of Marvel's old EIC's Jim Shooter, who was reknown for his interfering in storylines, and some of the ideas he forced on the writers.

But also, some pretty good stuff has happened lately at Marvel. We've seen the revival of Marvel's cosmic stories, plus several B and C-list characters are now in some of the best books Marvel puts out. Plus, who would suspect that BUCKY coming back from the dead would do so well?!

But how much can Quesada be involved in the good stuff going on? What, in the end, will be the final word on his reign once he inevitable leaves? I'm still trying to think of it. Perhaps it's too early too tell.

Hensler

Overall, Quesada's legacy will be creating the superhero fire fighter Ash with Jimmy P. But at Marvel? He's going to be remembered for crappy decisions like BND, while people give the actual writers the credit for the good things that happened during his run. About the same as any EIC, I'd say.

kdrudy

He saved the company, then probably stuck around too long making decisions.

Psychotic One

Quesada's legacy will be he was at the helm when Disney gave everyone in the company money hats. And in the end like for every buisness it comes down to how much profit you bring in.

Sentry

His legacy is both the Disney buy-out and the Captain America shield on the Colbert Report.

Munch

Well I mean, he did help, or at least put people in the position to, create Marvel Knights, create Marvel MAX, bring people like Brian Bendis, Warren Ellis, Mark Millar, Brian K Vaughan, Ed Brubaker, a host of talented artists too large to name, buy the rights to Marvelman, restore the Avengers franchise to glory, pull the company back from bankruptcy, gain mainstream exposure by appearing on the Colbert Report, and about a dozen other things to elevate Marvel above where they were prior to his tenure.

So, y'know, I think he's all set.

wirehead26

I'd say the only bad things you could contribute to him directly is OMD (and NOT BND because some of that wasn't too bad), and the horrible period in the early 2000s when almost EVERY book was late. I might be over-stating that last point but a ton of books were delayed back then, much more than today.

Thane

Hensler wrote: »

Overall, Quesada's legacy will be creating the superhero fire fighter Ash with Jimmy P. But at Marvel? He's going to be remembered for crappy decisions like BND, while people give the actual writers the credit for the good things that happened during his run. About the same as any EIC, I'd say.

This is probably the most correct

I think someone else should be EiC but keep Quesada on in an advisory role, because he did bring in INCREDIBLE talent, and generally has good ideas, but most of the time doesn't know when to quit

TexiKen

See, a lot of people won't admit it because he was as polarizing as Shooter, but Bill Jemas did just as much to help Marvel as Quesada has. The Jemas/Quesada years were the most exciting, when dead meant dead, the Ultimate line was launched making Bendis and Millar big names, Morrison on New X-Men, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man, and Mark Waid's FF run. The only downsides during that time was the constant delays which a slow artist turned EiC could never really enforce deadlines on, the decompression during the 2001-2003 era, and ultimately Waid and Wieringo being kicked off of FF.

Then Buckley came on board and Marvel didn't want to try and do anything new anymore, they were in a holding pattern as they finally got out of bankruptcy and paid off their old debt.

But yeah, OMD is going to be what Quesada is known for even above his art by the time this is all done.

DJ Eebs

I think you guys are vastly overstating how much of an impact OMD is going to have on Quesada's legacy as EIC.

Gaddez

The Geebs That Is A Mod wrote: »

I think you guys are vastly overstating how much of an impact OMD is going to have on Quesada's legacy as EIC.

I think you gravely underestimate the bitterness of Comic book fans.

Thane

OMD is the Clone saga of this decade

personally i stopped reading SpiderMan then, but its obvious that they could have just done something more in tone with that book

Jacobkosh

TexiKen wrote: »

See, a lot of people won't admit it because he was as polarizing as Shooter, but Bill Jemas did just as much to help Marvel as Quesada has. The Jemas/Quesada years were the most exciting, when dead meant dead, the Ultimate line was launched making Bendis and Millar big names, Morrison on New X-Men, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man, and Mark Waid's FF run.

I tend to agree. Jemas was a weird guy, but I think of him as the unsung hero of the company's recent years. For myself, anyway, at the most fundamental level, the Quesada/Jemas era was one where I bought and read a lot of Marvel comics, and the Quesada solo era has been one where I haven't.

jkylefulton

If Quesada quit the business tomorrow, he'd probably go down as a more successful Jim Shooter (not a bad place to be). He brought and retained top-of-the-line talent to the company, and the characters (as a whole) are as interesting/volatile now as they were in the late 60s (a good thing, IMO).

wwtMask

Joe Q.'s gonna have to do something drastically terrible to make me think badly of him. He's been at the helm since before I returned to comics, so he gets some credit for keeping me a faithful Marvel reader.

TexiKen

jacobkosh wrote: »

TexiKen wrote: »

See, a lot of people won't admit it because he was as polarizing as Shooter, but Bill Jemas did just as much to help Marvel as Quesada has. The Jemas/Quesada years were the most exciting, when dead meant dead, the Ultimate line was launched making Bendis and Millar big names, Morrison on New X-Men, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man, and Mark Waid's FF run.

I tend to agree. Jemas was a weird guy, but I think of him as the unsung hero of the company's recent years. For myself, anyway, at the most fundamental level, the Quesada/Jemas era was one where I bought and read a lot of Marvel comics, and the Quesada solo era has been one where I haven't.

That's where I stand pretty much. When I got back into comics in mid 2001 I was pretty much buying all Marvel save for JLA and some Superman issues, but around House of M Marvel kept doing things that I didn't care for anymore. Now, last I check, I roughly buy 75% DC/25% Marvel.

Balefuego

TexiKen wrote: »

jacobkosh wrote: »

TexiKen wrote: »

See, a lot of people won't admit it because he was as polarizing as Shooter, but Bill Jemas did just as much to help Marvel as Quesada has. The Jemas/Quesada years were the most exciting, when dead meant dead, the Ultimate line was launched making Bendis and Millar big names, Morrison on New X-Men, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man, and Mark Waid's FF run.

I tend to agree. Jemas was a weird guy, but I think of him as the unsung hero of the company's recent years. For myself, anyway, at the most fundamental level, the Quesada/Jemas era was one where I bought and read a lot of Marvel comics, and the Quesada solo era has been one where I haven't.

That's where I stand pretty much. When I got back into comics in mid 2001 I was pretty much buying all Marvel save for JLA and some Superman issues, but around House of M Marvel kept doing things that I didn't care for anymore. Now, last I check, I roughly buy 75% DC/25% Marvel.

I think you are the bizzaro me, because when I first came back into comics it was right into that same era, right when Geoff Johns was becoming the main star at DC, and I read mostly DC books aside from a few Ultimates/MK titles. I started buying more Marvel right around the Avengers relaunch and by the end of House of M and Infinite Crisis I was buying more Marvel than DC.

OYL and Countdown then further ground my DC list into nothingness.

KVW

I'd like to point out that few, if anyone, talks about past EiC's, regardless of how good or bad they were. They come up from time to time, but there's no 'legacy' or any kind of mention of these creators when referring to books or the quality thereof. People don't say the EiC int he 90's (Bob Harris was for a time,cant recall who else was) destroyed comics. They say 'so and so was a bad story' or 'this creator destroyed this character/book'. No one says Harris or Shooter or whoever was responsible, just like they'll say OMD was a bad story, not point at Joe Q because he was the EiC.

TexiKen

Each recent EiC has something which was something of an Albatross around their necks:

-Shooter had Secret Wars II

-Tom DeFalco had the acceptance of the grim n' gritty Jim Lee/Rob Liefield house style as well as fueling the speculation boom/bust.

-Bob Harras seems to get more and more blame for the Clone Saga as time goes on

-Quesada has One More Day

wirehead26

What about the former EiC for DC? I'm curious as to what their missteps were. I know Didio has Countdown to his name, although if Mark Waid is to be believed, he's PROUD of that.

sportzboytjw

I think that Quesada has a lot of credit coming for having marvel in a pretty good position during his tenure and will receive more love simply due to not being DiDio.

TexiKen

Jenette Kahn was pretty much head of DC for 26 years (she left in 2002), and then Didio took over in 2004. I don't know who (if any) was the temp "EiC" at DC (they never have an EiC, it's always Executive Editor or something like that). She helped create Vertigo, had Byrne reboot Superman, Miller on Batman, etc. I'm not trying to be blind to finding a big fault, mainly because I wasn't reading comics during most of her tenure, but I can't think of something that was so bad, so off putting that stands out like a Clone Saga or OMD.

Red/Blue Superman would probably be the biggest miss.

I would throw Identity Crisis out there but I think Kahn left before that was created I think. Maybe Munch could point out something.

Didio's would be Countdown, so far. Final Crisis, maybe, just from an execution standpoint and how it was to be that big, final event and DC would never have something bigger than that because it was the Final Crisis.

HadjiQuest

TexiKen wrote: »

Jenette Kahn was pretty much head of DC for 26 years (she left in 2002), and then Didio took over in 2004. I don't know who (if any) was the temp "EiC" at DC (they never have an EiC, it's always Executive Editor or something like that). She helped create Vertigo, had Byrne reboot Superman, Miller on Batman, etc.

The first time I checked into that, I was absolutely blown back by how long she had stayed with the company, everything she had accomplished, and how at this point in time her name is almost completely forgotten by the fans. You constantly hear about the parade of Marvel EiCs, but never about Jenette Kahn.

But I do agree with it being more about the stories and creators than the EiCs.

jkylefulton made the point of the characters being the most relevant that they have since their creation. That's absolutely true, but I automatically attribute it in my mind to what Bendis has done with the Avengers and Ultimate Spidey, what Millar did with Ultimates and Civil War, Brubaker on Cap, and JMS's 9/11 issue of Spider-Man. While DC is finding all of their success in taking characters back to their iconic roots and silver age mythologies, Marvel has become the real modern comic due to the above stories transplanting the characters into believable (as much as superhero comics can be, at least), modern stories.

If not specifically what he's remembered for, I'd like to think that'll be what the era is remembered for.

DJ Eebs

Didio has One Year Later and Countdown.

Sentry

TexiKen wrote: »

Jenette Kahn was pretty much head of DC for 26 years (she left in 2002), and then Didio took over in 2004. I don't know who (if any) was the temp "EiC" at DC (they never have an EiC, it's always Executive Editor or something like that). She helped create Vertigo, had Byrne reboot Superman, Miller on Batman, etc. I'm not trying to be blind to finding a big fault, mainly because I wasn't reading comics during most of her tenure, but I can't think of something that was so bad, so off putting that stands out like a Clone Saga or OMD.

Red/Blue Superman would probably be the biggest miss.

I would throw Identity Crisis out there but I think Kahn left before that was created I think. Maybe Munch could point out something.

Didio's would be Countdown, so far. Final Crisis, maybe, just from an execution standpoint and how it was to be that big, final event and DC would never have something bigger than that because it was the Final Crisis.

I'm not sure how well the "vote to kill Robin" game went over, but that's a tail you can pin on Kahn, I think.

Fencingsax

Sentry wrote: »

TexiKen wrote: »

Jenette Kahn was pretty much head of DC for 26 years (she left in 2002), and then Didio took over in 2004. I don't know who (if any) was the temp "EiC" at DC (they never have an EiC, it's always Executive Editor or something like that). She helped create Vertigo, had Byrne reboot Superman, Miller on Batman, etc. I'm not trying to be blind to finding a big fault, mainly because I wasn't reading comics during most of her tenure, but I can't think of something that was so bad, so off putting that stands out like a Clone Saga or OMD.

Red/Blue Superman would probably be the biggest miss.

I would throw Identity Crisis out there but I think Kahn left before that was created I think. Maybe Munch could point out something.

Didio's would be Countdown, so far. Final Crisis, maybe, just from an execution standpoint and how it was to be that big, final event and DC would never have something bigger than that because it was the Final Crisis.

I'm not sure how well the "vote to kill Robin" game went over, but that's a tail you can pin on Kahn, I think.

Well considering people disliked him enough to want him gone, I'd say it went rather well.

The Lovely Bastard

It was shocking, yes, but hell a ton of people voted so you know it wasn't really a failure.

CorporateLogo

Yeah, if enough people voted for him to die, then I'd say he probably wasn't all that great to begin with.

DJ Eebs

Yes, that "fans voted to kill a child superhero" did wonders for the reputation of comic books!

CorporateLogo

Aw geebs, everyone knows comic books have the worst reputation among printed media. They can't go any lower!

Sentry

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

It was shocking, yes, but hell a ton of people voted so you know it wasn't really a failure.

Was it really a "ton" of people? I don't recall the numbers. But regardless, wasn't it really a cheap, heartless publicity stunt? I mean, even leading up to the vote, the pure savagery of those scenes with the Joker are right on par with the worst that Identity Crisis had to offer.

The Lovely Bastard

Oh it was a terrible thing to do

But it worked

HadjiQuest

Sentry wrote: »

The Lovely Bastard wrote: »

It was shocking, yes, but hell a ton of people voted so you know it wasn't really a failure.

Was it really a "ton" of people? I don't recall the numbers. But regardless, wasn't it really a cheap, heartless publicity stunt? I mean, even leading up to the vote, the pure savagery of those scenes with the Joker are right on par with the worst that Identity Crisis had to offer.

Joker becoming UN Ambassador to Iran the next issue was almost just as bad.

What a crazy crazy story.

Jim Starlin is a crazy, crazy man.

Hensler

Voting for Robin to live or die is still better than voting for the winners of Marvel vs DC. Spider-Man beats Superboy and Wolverine beats Lobo? Bah! At least Robin dying was a good story.

TexiKen

Hey, DC honored the results of the phone poll at least and stuck by it until 2005. But we can still put that as the mark against Kahn's tenure.

Here's what Wikipedia said about Death in the Family:

In 1988, Dennis O'Neil suggested that an audience might be attracted to the comics by being afforded the opportunity to influence the creative process.[5] Settling on the idea of telephone poll via a 1-900 number, O'Neil had decided due to discussions with DC Comics president Jenette Kahn that the poll should not be wasted on something insignificant. O'Neil settled on using the poll to determine the fate of Jason Todd. O'Neil said, "The logical candidate was Jason because we had reason to believe that he wasn't that popular anyway. It was a big enough stunt that we couldn't do it with a minor character."[6] Even though Jason Todd was unpopular with readers, O'Neil could not decide what to do with the character, so he opted to present the choice to the readership.[5]

The vote was set up in the four-part story "A Death in the Family" that was published in Batman #426-429 in 1988. At the end of Batman #427, Jason Todd was beaten by the Joker and left to die in an explosion. The inside back cover of the issue listed two 1-900 numbers that readers could call to vote for the character's death or survival. Within the 36 hour period alloted for voting, the poll received 10,614 votes. The verdict in favor of the character's death won by a slim margin of 5,343 votes to 5,271.[7] The following issue of Batman, issue 428, was published featuring Jason Todd's death. Despite the poll results, O'Neil noted, "We did the deed, and we got a blast of hate mail and a blast of negative commentary in the press."[8] A few comics creators voiced their displeasure at the event. Writer/artist Frank Miller, who had worked on Batman: The Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year One, said, "To me the whole killing of Robin thing was probably the ugliest thing I've seen in comics, and the most cynical."[9] However, DC stood behind the outcome of the poll. O'Neil was quoted on the back cover of A Death in the Family trade paperback collecting the story with Todd's death as saying, "It would be a really sleazy stunt to bring him back."[10] However, O'Neil would later regret his comment.[11]

KVW

Hensler wrote: »

Voting for Robin to live or die is still better than voting for the winners of Marvel vs DC. Spider-Man beats Superboy and Wolverine beats Lobo? Bah! At least Robin dying was a good story.

You shut your whore mouth about Marvel vs DC or I'm sicking Dark Claw on you.

Hensler

KVW wrote: »

Hensler wrote: »

Voting for Robin to live or die is still better than voting for the winners of Marvel vs DC. Spider-Man beats Superboy and Wolverine beats Lobo? Bah! At least Robin dying was a good story.

You shut your whore mouth about Marvel vs DC or I'm sicking Dark Claw on you.

Amalgam was fun, but Marvel vs DC was a trainwreck.

Munch

Hensler wrote: »

Amalgam was fun, but Marvel vs DC was a trainwreck.

I've done a lot of thinking about Amalgam, and I'm pretty sure they could have upped the awesome by about 300% by introducing the Blue Beast and Wonder Gold. One's a scientist! One's a celebrity! Together they fight crime!

Faynor

That does sound pretty awesome!

Matthew

Hensler wrote: »

KVW wrote: »

Hensler wrote: »

Voting for Robin to live or die is still better than voting for the winners of Marvel vs DC. Spider-Man beats Superboy and Wolverine beats Lobo? Bah! At least Robin dying was a good story.

You shut your whore mouth about Marvel vs DC or I'm sicking Dark Claw on you.

Amalgam was fun, but Marvel vs DC was a trainwreck.

Perhaps, but it was a fun kind of train wreck. I remember going on message boards and some people's reactions to the fight outcomes gave me a true "Palm-to-forehead" moment. My reaction was basically "They let you the fans vote on the outcome, and you're "Surprised" that Wolverine beat Lobo?"

Basically they complained that it was only a popularity contest. Duh. Of course it was a popularity contest, they allowed the FANS to choose the winners, there's no way it could NOT be a popularity contest.