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Enough with the [Cass]tholic guilt, [Chat]

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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusu, if you want to take anthropology... you better learn to get a hard on from literature.

    Because the two are totally sexing each other forever.
    I get a hard on for literature. Not poetry though. Poetry makes me gag.

    Modern poetry can go to hell.

    But do not go gently in to that goodnight Kusu.

    For fuck's sake.

    You have to at least understand what poetry is beyond the schools of analysis if you ever want to have a clue about literature.

    Incenjucar on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    redx wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusu, if you want to take anthropology... you better learn to get a hard on from literature.

    Because the two are totally sexing each other forever.
    I get a hard on for literature. Not poetry though. Poetry makes me gag.
    what about epic poetry?
    Epic poetry is different.

    And awesome.

    Thanatos on
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    stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Do not be dissin' on Emerson.

    Also, L=A=N=G=U=A=G=E poems didn't have a message or theme. Sure, the movement as a whole had a message, but the individual poems didn't. Same with serial poetry.

    Unfortunately LANGUAGE poems and serial poems are bullshit and stupid, but it still disproves your point.
    Serialism is useless as anything other than a study.

    t Than: Well, how am I supposed to know you've given them up for Hanukkah?

    stilist on
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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I'm a Dickinson fan, even if she was a little fucked in the brain.

    Drez on
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    KusuguttaiKusuguttai __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it. Essays, short stories, anything else I've been required to write for any English class nets me 100%. Also I've never enjoyed it. Ever.

    Kusuguttai on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    Message is not the be all and end all, Kusu. Emerson had some very worthy messages, but he sucked as a poet. He wrote everything in bouncing iambs, was completely boring in his meter, and completely ignored form. Once the message is extricated, there is nothing to bring the reader back to the poem. Poetry needs to be entertainment, concerning our most vital function - language. It is about enjoying wrapping your mouth around the beauty of our most basic function. It is also about appreciating crafstmenship and construction.

    God damn it, Kusu. This is like day one stuff.
    Day one faggy poetry stuff, yeah sure.

    I don't get this "poetry is a stupid way to get a message across" thing. Stories use the exact same mechanic to get a message across; poetry is often just more abstract. They are based on the same principles, without which language is simply a mechanical means to transfer meaning and we might as well just have speeches and essays and no stories at all.

    I mean, you don't have to like poetry, but you do have to acknowledge that it is a valid art form. It is an exploration of sentiment; what is wrong with that?

    Or do you just object to structure and meter and rhyme, and not the idea of poetry itself? Because, despite what one of my profs says, poetry is not JUST structure.

    Evil Multifarious on
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    flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    There are some things you just cannot communicate with prose.

    Try to capture Ginsberg's "Howl" as a short story or an essay. It's not gonna happen.

    Same with something like Cummings' grasshopper poem. Shit, maybe you should just take a poetry class. You know, for intellectual growth. And try to have an open mind.

    flamebroiledchicken on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Erat Hora - Ezra Pound

    "Thank you, whatever comes." And then she turned,
    And, as the ray of sun on setting leaf
    Fades when the wind hath lifted them aside,
    Went swiftly from me. Nay, whatever comes,
    One hour was sunlit, and the most high gods
    May not make boast of any better thing
    Than to have watched that hour as it passed.

    Podly on
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    LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it. Essays, short stories, anything else I've been required to write for any English class nets me 100%. Also I've never enjoyed it. Ever.

    So all poetry sucks the big one because you can't write it all that well without some effort?

    D:

    LaOs on
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    stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nagato wrote:
    Hey guys, been lurking for what seems like ages, I have finally climbed aboard the PA forums. Though, I have been a member of 360Arcadians for some time.
    Oh, you've dropped by at a lovely time if you'd like to discuss poetry. :P

    Here, have some tea and biscuits.

    stilist on
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    KusuguttaiKusuguttai __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusu, if you want to take anthropology... you better learn to get a hard on from literature.

    Because the two are totally sexing each other forever.
    I get a hard on for literature. Not poetry though. Poetry makes me gag.
    You have to at least understand what poetry is beyond the schools of analysis if you ever want to have a clue about literature.
    No you don't, that's bullshit.

    Kusuguttai on
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    SheriSheri Resident Fluffer My Living RoomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Oh shit, I should point out that I love Elizabeth Barrett Browning's "Aurora Leigh," but man, fuck "Sonnets from the Portuguese."

    Sheri on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it. Essays, short stories, anything else I've been required to write for any English class nets me 100%. Also I've never enjoyed it. Ever.

    HAHAHA.

    So you don't like poetry because you suck at it.

    Bravo.

    Incenjucar on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    cocks, dicks lol.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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    ViolentChemistryViolentChemistry __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    stilist wrote:
    Here, have some tea and biscuits.
    Are there also cookies?

    ViolentChemistry on
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    SheriSheri Resident Fluffer My Living RoomRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    There are some things you just cannot communicate with prose.

    Try to capture Ginsberg's "Howl" as a short story or an essay. It's not gonna happen.

    Same with something like Cummings' grasshopper poem. Shit, maybe you should just take a poetry class. You know, for intellectual growth. And try to have an open mind.

    OH GOD the first book of "Howl"

    Oh god

    Love it.

    Sheri on
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    NagatoNagato Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    *Brings in tray of cookies*

    I come bearing gifts!

    Oh right.

    *Adjusts monicle*

    I say.

    Nagato on
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] new member
    edited December 2006
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    [Deleted User] on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Poldy wrote:
    Message is not the be all and end all, Kusu. Emerson had some very worthy messages, but he sucked as a poet. He wrote everything in bouncing iambs, was completely boring in his meter, and completely ignored form. Once the message is extricated, there is nothing to bring the reader back to the poem. Poetry needs to be entertainment, concerning our most vital function - language. It is about enjoying wrapping your mouth around the beauty of our most basic function. It is also about appreciating crafstmenship and construction.

    God damn it, Kusu. This is like day one stuff.
    Day one faggy poetry stuff, yeah sure.
    I don't get this "poetry is a stupid way to get a message across" thing. Stories use the exact same mechanic to get a message across; poetry is often just more abstract. They are based on the same principles, without which language is simply a mechanical means to transfer meaning and we might as well just have speeches and essays and no stories at all.

    I mean, you don't have to like poetry, but you do have to acknowledge that it is a valid art form. It is an exploration of sentiment; what is wrong with that?

    Or do you just object to structure and meter and rhyme, and not the idea of poetry itself? Because, despite what one of my profs says, poetry is not JUST structure.
    Say you wanted to sculpt a statue. So, in order to sculpt it, you could do it normally, or you could stick yourself on a vibrating platform, and tie one hand behind your back.

    Prose is the former, poetry the latter.

    Thanatos on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it. Essays, short stories, anything else I've been required to write for any English class nets me 100%. Also I've never enjoyed it. Ever.

    HAHAHA.

    So you don't like poetry because you suck at it.

    Bravo.

    I thought I might just be reading it wrong.

    But no.

    Kusu is just a lazy, ignorant fuck.

    Podly on
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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it.


    :(

    redx on
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    Raijin QuickfootRaijin Quickfoot I'm your Huckleberry YOU'RE NO DAISYRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2006
    I've always though Poe should get more credit for his poetry beyond just The Raven. Annabelle Lee and Bells are both brilliant.

    Raijin Quickfoot on
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    KusuguttaiKusuguttai __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it. Essays, short stories, anything else I've been required to write for any English class nets me 100%. Also I've never enjoyed it. Ever.

    HAHAHA.

    So you don't like poetry because you suck at it.

    Bravo.
    I don't suck at it. I just have to work to do well at it. I don't care enough about doing well in it to actually DO well. Poetry can lick a nut.

    Kusuguttai on
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    IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusu, if you want to take anthropology... you better learn to get a hard on from literature.

    Because the two are totally sexing each other forever.
    I get a hard on for literature. Not poetry though. Poetry makes me gag.
    You have to at least understand what poetry is beyond the schools of analysis if you ever want to have a clue about literature.
    No you don't, that's bullshit.

    Sorry lil' buddy, but it's true.

    You want a hint?

    Go look at your fucking bible.

    Go look up "Ramayana"

    Poetry has been one of the most powerful things in human history.

    If you don't get that, you're not going to be much better than your average high school English teacher who hates big words.

    --

    Kusu. You are very bland.

    Incenjucar on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nagato wrote:
    *Brings in tray of cookies*

    I come bearing gifts!

    Oh right.

    *Adjusts monicle*

    I say.

    These better be the best goddamn cookies I've ever tasted.

    gundam470 on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusu

    I don't get it

    Do you not read, and just write?

    What the hell is the emphasis on writing?

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    DrezDrez Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    redx wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it.


    :(


    People should really think about every line they write in any form of literature. No real writer just throws shit at a page willy-nilly.

    Drez on
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    Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry.

    THAT IS THE POINT

    If you don't think about every line, and go back and revise it a hundred times, and change every sentence until it is excellent but you are still unsatisfied, you're not doing it right. This is as true of prose as it is of poetry.

    The restrictions of poetry are there to force your thinking into lines that it would not otherwise follow. Meter and rhyme create word arrangements of peculiar beauty because the poet would not have thought of those particular words otherwise.

    This "writing flows out of you" is hippy horseshit.

    Evil Multifarious on
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    WashWash Sweet Christmas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Damnit. I'm gone for a few hours and the old chat ends. Was it chat logged?

    Wash on
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    KusuguttaiKusuguttai __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Incenjucar wrote:
    Kusu, if you want to take anthropology... you better learn to get a hard on from literature.

    Because the two are totally sexing each other forever.
    I get a hard on for literature. Not poetry though. Poetry makes me gag.
    You have to at least understand what poetry is beyond the schools of analysis if you ever want to have a clue about literature.
    No you don't, that's bullshit.

    Sorry lil' buddy, but it's true.

    You want a hint?

    Go look at your fucking bible.

    Go look up "Ramayana"

    Poetry has been one of the most powerful things in human history.

    If you don't get that, you're not going to be much better than your average high school English teacher who hates big words.
    No. No it's not true. You can understand poetry without liking it. It may have influenced great literature throughout the ages, but you certainly don't need to be an expert in it to enjoy any sort of literature. You're putting way too much stock in it. I can understand what poetry is without liking it. Don't be such a poetry whore.

    Kusuguttai on
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    NagatoNagato Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    I am the cookie man, my cookies are delicious.

    Man, a few days ago the UPS guy dropped off like 12 packages at my house, I got the entire street's Christmas supply apparently, was total hell getting them back to the right houses, I think I did my good Christmas deed though.

    Nagato on
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    LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nagato wrote:
    I am the cookie man, my cookies are delicious

    Uh-oh! DG has some competition...

    LaOs on
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    KusuguttaiKusuguttai __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry.

    THAT IS THE POINT

    If you don't think about every line, and go back and revise it a hundred times, and change every sentence until it is excellent but you are still unsatisfied, you're not doing it right. This is as true of prose as it is of poetry.

    The restrictions of poetry are there to force your thinking into lines that it would not otherwise follow. Meter and rhyme create word arrangements of peculiar beauty because the poet would not have thought of those particular words otherwise.

    This "writing flows out of you" is hippy horseshit.
    No, it's really not. I have to revise, sure, but the basic flow and pace is natural. Just because you have to work at being good doesn't mean there aren't people with natural talent. Natural talent needs to be refined though, which is why I'm focusing on an emphasis in writing. Mostly short stories and the like.

    Kusuguttai on
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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nagato wrote:
    I am the cookie man, my cookies are delicious.

    Man, a few days ago the UPS guy dropped off like 12 packages at my house, I got the entire street's Christmas supply apparently, was total hell getting them back to the right houses, I think I did my good Christmas deed though.

    We already have a resident baker; her name's Discgrace. You're gonna have to find some other niche to fill.

    gundam470 on
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    WashWash Sweet Christmas Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Nagato wrote:
    I am the cookie man, my cookies are delicious.

    Man, a few days ago the UPS guy dropped off like 12 packages at my house, I got the entire street's Christmas supply apparently, was total hell getting them back to the right houses, I think I did my good Christmas deed though.
    You're like Santa Claus.

    Wash on
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    stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    stilist wrote:
    Here, have some tea and biscuits.
    Are there also cookies?
    Good point, there probably aren't many Brits on right now. We'll call them by the American name.

    Also: In the end, poetry comes down to the reader and the author. If the author is poor, the poetry is of little value. If the author is good, the reader poor, then the greatest writing in the world is worthless. If author and reader are good, however... there are few things that can match the brilliance contained in even spare words from a desk drawer, when touched by the hands of a craftsman.

    stilist on
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    flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    It's kind of really fucking retarded to say "I hate all poetry".

    It's like saying "I hate music" or "I hate film"

    flamebroiledchicken on
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    PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry.

    THAT IS THE POINT

    If you don't think about every line, and go back and revise it a hundred times, and change every sentence until it is excellent but you are still unsatisfied, you're not doing it right. This is as true of prose as it is of poetry.

    The restrictions of poetry are there to force your thinking into lines that it would not otherwise follow. Meter and rhyme create word arrangements of peculiar beauty because the poet would not have thought of those particular words otherwise.

    This "writing flows out of you" is hippy horseshit.

    Seriously. This is why guy like TS Eliot are so brilliant. When you write a sonnet, you have restrictions in place so that you can concentrate on one thing. You might not be able to tackle the meaning of life, but you WILL be able to describe something in detail. TS Eliot had no restrictions (I am using this loosely, let's not talk about Eliot's architectonics). For anyone else, that would have fucked them, because it would have been so flabby. But Eliot KNEW what needed to be said, and how to say it.

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    redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited December 2006
    Drez wrote:
    redx wrote:
    Kusuguttai wrote:
    Because I have to think about every line when I write poetry. It doesn't come natural, so I say fuck it.


    :(


    People should really think about every line they write in any form of literature. No real writer just throws shit at a page willy-nilly.

    a lot of very sucessfull writers do that.

    look at the times(or whatever) best seller's list.

    He can be a hack if he wants.

    Normally, you have to be sucessfull before you get lazy though.


    tl;dr:Fuck steven king.

    redx on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited December 2006
    It's kind of really fucking retarded to say "I hate all poetry".

    It's like saying "I hate music" or "I hate film"
    I don't think anyone is saying it about all poetry; just poetry in general.

    Thanatos on
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