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Forget it, Jake! It's [Star Wars].
Fatboy Roberts
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Elki edit: This is a split from the Indiana Jones thread. Star Wars is the topic.
Revenge of the Sith is a better movie than Return of the Jedi.
Also, Duffel, Lucas has never co-directed an Indiana Jones movie. he's shot some 2nd Unit stuff.
DarkWarrior wrote: »I never saw any of the new star wars movies except for Episode 1, and haven't seen the originals in about a decade...
So, for those of us who are uninformed, what exactly does Lucas do that is so characteristically bad? It's hard to say with Indy because those movies are usually pretty fun and they're co-directed with Spielberg anyway.
Star Wars 1-3.
Revenge of the Sith is a better movie than Return of the Jedi.
Also, Duffel, Lucas has never co-directed an Indiana Jones movie. he's shot some 2nd Unit stuff.
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She died of a broken heart.
Be evil Anakin.
Sure what do I have to do?
Kill the kiddies, it'll make you look like a TOTAL bad ass.
O...ok.
mmmmmmmmmmm I'm not crazy about Jedi (anymore. except for a few parts) but the big bright spots in Jedi far outshine anything happening in Sith.
Do you really want me to break down all the retarded shit in Return of the Jedi? C'mon. I'm not saying that they're great movies. I'm just saying that Revenge of the Sith is a better piece of filmmaking than Return of the Jedi is.
I disagree (obviously) because outside of the Vader duel at the end crosscut with the assault on Death Star II, there really ARE no big bright spots in Return of the Jedi. It's a flat looking, flatly-acted, mostly boring movie. the speeder-bike chase is cool. Is it cooler than Order 66? I don't think so.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
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This is straight up the most retarded thing anyone has said in this thread or any other
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okay. when I said bright spots, I did only mean the climax so fair enough. I probably think of it as "bright spots" to keep myself looking at it positively... so I'll give you that. BUT, I don't think anything in sith compares to that climax.
and the speeder bike segment may not beat order 66, but coupled with the taking of the bunker... basically everything in the forest fight besides the little ugly fucking things (and I know that doesn't leave much left) still stands above order 66 for me, as moments go.
but we are clearly splitting hairs. I think it's fair to say we rank them similarly though obviously swapped.
can we do this here?
ep 4
ep 5
huge fucking gap
ep 6
ep 3
ep 1
ep 2
NO U!
Also, I'm right.
And if you're saying my statement is dumber than your current sig, then sir, I charge you with villainy and hyperbolic overstatement!
Variable: yeah, we have 3 and 6 flip flopped
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I agree with you except 1 should easily be bottom. Only Miami Vice made me want to turn off a movie more. Darth Maul is the only redeeming factor.
Also, what taeric said.
But I digress.
I still think Fate of Atlantis is the best idea. Fountain of Youth is too close to the Holy Grail (whee! More everlasting life!).
Its the Ewok crap that brings the rest of it down.
I don't know, man
Saying that Sith had even a quarter of the quality entertainment of Jedi might be tantamount to saying rape doesn't hurt
Seriously, the one good thing in Sith that I can remember is Obi-Wan's little speech when Anakin is burning in lava. Order 66 was over too quickly and we didn't know any of the people involved so who gave a shit, and the fight with Grievous was stupid and dumb. Jedi had the speeder bike chase and the final lightsaber fight and the Death Star II and the entire sail barge fight which was awesome you shut your whore mouth
And I was gonna say Episode I was the worst but then I remembered the awesome lightsaber fight and Liam Neeson and Episode II had the "course sand soft skin" thing so fuck it
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Look
I think your sig beats it
But it's like saying this ocean is wetter than that one
Oops. yeah, missed that. Flip flop 4 and 5 on that list along with 3 and 6 and that's my list. Episode II is pretty easily the worst.
that's like saying "the ocean has some water in it."
[edit] I apparently share some sort of simile-mind-link with Me Too right now.
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Ehhhhhh I agree with your point but the "let's destroy another Death Star" thing always felt dumb to me, like a rehashing of Episode 4.
Overall though we are in agreement.
Sometimes Wiggin you are allllllriiiiiight
Also I didn't mind the ewoks so much. They were cutesy, but they didn't hurt the film I don't think. Of course I recognize that I'm in the minority on that but whatever
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EDIT: So far off topic, completely not talking about this anymore.
This is hyperbole for ha-ha's. Right? Like "I enjoy saying goofy shit on the internet for the fun value attached."
Because I can't take that assessment of Jedi's qualities as a film even remotely seriously.
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I think that's what, well at least me and fatboy definitely said that.
I saw 1 four times opening weekend. I was 13 and it was fucking exciting that it was happening.
I saw 2 once in theatres and once last year when I watched all three of them, at home, to truly once and for all accept what they were. I saw 3 in theaters twice and I've caught it on tv once or twice. not good.
I think a new hope and empire belong on a top 100 list. not jedi.
I can't argue with that, I don't really think there's any debate to be had between someone who likes anh more than empire and vice versa. it's looking for different things.
anh is all about the discovery and the death star run and all that. it's magical, and that raises it above for me, but I realize that's not actually an aspect of the film that everyone sees/feels. but still I have to say I like it more.
Back to Indy (plz!), I always loved Temple, but its flaws were even larger than RotJ's. (dang it!!)
Where'd Ghost in the Shell and Princess Mononoke place?
Also, by comparison, Godfather I and II are both in the top 100, but III not even on the 400. That's an example of a truly disappointing third act. Return of the Jedi was only somewhat beneath its forebearers and is hair-splitting when you're talking about the top movies of all time.
Agree. If you're going to use commies at least make them scary. Crystal Skulls' commies were less scary shooting guns than Raiders' Nazis were hanging up their jackets. The Thuggee in Temple of Doom were scary too, despite not being Nazis.
Yup, it completely removed any menacing quality Jabba might have had. It would be like re-editing the Godfather so that the undertaker in the beginning hits Brando in the face with a pie, and he just takes it.
Yes, Order 66 is idiotic. All these great and powerful Jedi get wiped out by ordinary soldiers without even putting up a fight. What, did every clone have ysalamiri on their backs?
Sith has by far the best lightsaber battle ever. However, as soon as Kenobi is on "higher ground" it eliminates the enjoyment and takes you out of the action/suspence because you're too busy saying, "huh wtf?". That happens continuously though all three prequels. As soon as something is going well, Lucas throws some curveball that makes it all retarded.
Also Jedi is responsible for "ITS A TRAP". /win
I feel the same shit will happen if they make another Indy film. Lucas has even admitted he wants to move the series forward. God knows what that means but i can't help but feel like it means Indy becomes an X-files agent. Lucas is the problem. That is all. If he's behind ANY part of the movie process, we're going to have highly questionable scenes that are going to ruin the overall experience. Granted, Spielberg isn't innocent either.
I would argue the only Indy that would work is a complete redo like was mentioned earlier. No one thought 007 would be played better than Sean Connery, no one thought Batman would get any better than Keaton. Another Spielberg/Lucas Jones movie will be a mistake. Also, even though i have no problem with him as an actor, Shieae Leabaeiouf isn't the answer.
A more apt criticism is that we didn't know any of the people being killed. They appeared on screen for five seconds before being gunned down unceremoniously and putting up no fight at all. Why are we even supposed to give a shit, I ask you
It could have been really cool and heart wrenching and all that if they had bothered to develop or introduce any of those characters beyond a cursory cameo
In fact I'm pretty sure the only other Jedi we knew that had a confirmed name and spoken dialogue was Mace Windu, and his death was also bullshit sooooo
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I'd say those are similar trilogies, actually
i was taking a look at imdb trivia about 4 and one of the first conceptions of back to the future had marty climbing into a fridge. ie the delorean was a fridge.
to come back, he had to be hurled through time in the fridge by a nuclear explosion in the desert
the stated reason why they did not go with this sterling idea and instead went with the car getting hit by a lightning bolt is that they did not want children climbing into their fridges to emulate the movie
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higher ground makes perfect sense, it just looks stupid because they didn't do a proper job of explaining the meta game behind the swordfight. there was no anime character going "wow, they're now doing x!" and giving it legitimacy via having an amazed audience. There's a reason they use that technique in anime. It works. :P
Just before that point, Anakin had tried a specific jumping move and Obi Wan knew he was going to try it again. He couldn't just jump onto land in front of obi, because that would be suicidal. So he had to try and use something ot get across and he decided to use the same trick because he's stubborn and believed he was much more powerful than obi wan. Obi knew he would do that, because he's been with him for years. That is what this exchange meant.
Anakin's arrogance is what got him killed. I thought it was very clever. But then again, seeing the meta strategy behind a fight is always amusing because even when i understand it it still "looks" silly on the surface because of the indirectness of it.
It really doesn't make sense. What would him being more powerful than Obi Wan have to do with anything? For that matter, why would a basic move that's worked every other time any Jedi has ever done it suddenly not work this one time, other then because the plot demands it?
There is no logic to the scene at all. Things simply happen as the plot requires them to.
No, they're pretty readily apparent on initial viewing. You don't have to be a film student or someone who owns like 200 DVD's or whatever. If you pay attention when you watch a movie, you can see why things do and don't work pretty easily. Return of the Jedi isn't a hard movie to do this with.
And? I don't know why that matters, honestly. They represent Jedi, and Jedi represent good guys. Again it's not that complicated. The strength of the scene comes in the music, the visuals, the editing. The destruction of Alderaan was affecting, and you didn't know any of those people, either. I knew maybe 3 riders of Rohan and when they were getting hacked up in Lord of the Rings, the scene wasn't any less effective because the people dying weren't fleshed out characters.
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Every other time it is done, they are both on the same level.
It is not that he actually is more powerful. It's that he thinks he is substantially more powerful, as that's what happens when you go to the dark side. Because of this massive bias, he seriously underestimates how likely it is that he will succeed.
Higher ground in a duel is such an old tactic I'm pretty amazed anybody argues about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_ground
He had to jump a lot further to get over him, so Obi wan had about ten bazillion years to see him coming. You can see him just watching anakin coming and then he calmly takes him down.
It was well done.
It sure did sound funny though, and it was weird seeing something that specific in a hollywood movie.
Except that the Jedi are dicks.
Also, Leia's reaction is what makes Alderaan being blown have actual emotional weight. For this to be true of Order 66, someone in the PT would have to know how to act.
Finally, I'm not even sure what the riders of Rohan have to do with anything.
Um, Episode I. Obi-Wan jumps out of a fucking pit right over Maul's head while Maul just stands there like an idiot. And if it was some deficiency on Maul's part that saved Obi-Wan from getting cut to pieces that time, that creates an obvious continuity error because you don't just go from "so badass you can fight two Jedi at once" to "so incompetent you can't even defend yourself" in the space of five seconds.
How does powerlevel help you jump over people? That doesn't make any sense. Arrogance could explain him thinking he could win a fight with Obi-Wan in the first place, or attempting to use the Force in some way that he wasn't actually good enough to do (ie lifting some huge thing to smash Obi-Wan with or using Force Lightning) but it cannot explain him not knowing that lazily jumping over someone with a lightsaber is a bad idea.
Not when you can Force Jump several dozens feet into the air, throw things around with telekenisis, etc.
That would be Yoda, the digital character, whose reaction during Order 66 is both emotionally and physically satisfying. When in puppet form, he was probably the best actor in Empire Strikes Back, too.
Rohan was used as a basis of comparison since it's a faceless group of characters that got slaughtered while representing a force of good that we never really got to know. I'm sure they were dicks, too.
A whole bunch of great and powerful Jedi (or whatever) got wiped out just one shitty movie earlier by bumbling droids in an arena visited by giant dragonflies. I don't even see the point of arguing about the movies and then bringing up EU bullshit.
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The riders of Rohan didn't get slaughtered? They were in two battles, which are an entirely different kind of scene. Also, actual main characters were also in that battle.
Nitpicking aside, you saw the point I was trying to make, correct? And there were main characters in Order 66, both Obi Wan and Yoda were attacked directly.
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