As a huge fan of the series, I'm happy for Yamaoka to do other things. Silent Hill 4, to me, may have been better if it had remained a non-franchise game.
I think it's time to lay it to bed. And I say that as one of the few people I know who defends Homecoming.
spiderj2 on
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
As a huge fan of the series, I'm happy for Yamaoka to do other things. Silent Hill 4, to me, may have been better if it had remained a non-franchise game.
I think it's time to lay it to bed. And I say that as one of the few people I know who defends Homecoming.
Silent Hill 4 honestly is a pretty good game if you sort of forget that it's supposed to be a Silent Hill game while playing it.
Then again, I think I remember hearing rumors to the affect that it originally wasn't supposed to be a Silent Hill game, which would make sense.
It's hard to tell what exactly 4 was originally supposed to be due to conflicting information, but I think it was originally going to be set in the SH universe but not be an actual SH game. It was just going to be "The Room" or "Room 215" or whatever the room number was. SH4 was a pretty good game until you get to Eileen though. Then it becomes terrible and not very good for a vast number of reasons that I could go into detail on. Unkillable ghosts though is not one of the reasons. Unkillable Walter can screw off, but unkillable ghosts were fine. You had more than enough ways to deal with the only ones that are actually annoying.
I thought the atmosphere in 4 was superb for the whole. And I don't judge Silent Hill games on gameplay over atmosphere, nor should any sane person. The water prison is one of the scariest settings I've ever come across in a game.
I have few complaints about it all told. I haven't replayed it but enjoyed it a lot and got a good few scares out of it. I think I foolishly believe that taking it away from the SH franchise would have made it into a totally different game, which is obviously ridiculous. But the room concept, I reckon, has a lot of potential as a more adventure-type game.
And the modern urban environment, outside the window, is so unusual and evocative for a horror game. Shame that, subway areas aside, the game doesn't play with that too much.
SH4 also has one of the best trailers ever. 'tis long but worth it:
No you have to judge it based on gameplay because it's a game. Even when people play horror games you have expectations on gameplay because if the gameplay is bad you're too busy hating it as opposed to being scared. I liked the gameplay of the other games, even 3 on the stupidly hard difficulties. I did not enjoy 4 once Eileen joins because more than being scary it just pisses you off at how shittily made it is. It needed more atmospheric stuff like the room had, but outside of the actual room. The randomized hospital rooms were great with that stuff. Once Eileen joins you though it just becomes backtracking through old areas, going down that goddamn escalator again, and wondering why burping nurses were supposed to be scary.
No you have to judge it based on gameplay because it's a game. Even when people play horror games you have expectations on gameplay because if the gameplay is bad you're too busy hating it as opposed to being scared.
I take your point but don't really agree. Gameplay comes into it of course - and if the gameplay is so bad you hate it, everything else becomes irrelevant. But in the same way that I played Grim Fandango more for the dialogue and plot than for the puzzles and the interaction, I enjoy the SH games more for the atmosphere than for the mechanics of playing them. They're among the few games I can gladly watch someone else play and enjoy, despite having played them already myself.
I didn't mean to suggest that the interaction with the game is irrelevant to me and I'm not saying that they'd work without that element. But I think saying a game has to be judged primarily on gameplay is a little like saying a film has to be based purely on its visuals, because that's the core element of the medium, when there's actually a lot of different elements coming together. I'm not trying to equate that with your comment by any means and I'm far too tired to articulate any better than this.
And I am articulating badly.
spiderj2 on
0
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
No you have to judge it based on gameplay because it's a game. Even when people play horror games you have expectations on gameplay because if the gameplay is bad you're too busy hating it as opposed to being scared.
I take your point but don't really agree. Gameplay comes into it of course - and if the gameplay is so bad you hate it, everything else becomes irrelevant. But in the same way that I played Grim Fandango more for the dialogue and plot than for the puzzles and the interaction, I enjoy the SH games more for the atmosphere than for the mechanics of playing them. They're among the few games I can gladly watch someone else play and enjoy, despite having played them already myself.
I didn't mean to suggest that the interaction with the game is irrelevant to me and I'm not saying that they'd work without that element. But I think saying a game has to be judged primarily on gameplay is a little like saying a film has to be based purely on its visuals, because that's the core element of the medium, when there's actually a lot of different elements coming together. I'm not trying to equate that with your comment by any means and I'm far too tired to articulate any better than this.
And I am articulating badly.
Adventure games are a bit of a cop out in that regard because there's very little in the way of gameplay, good or bad, to get in the way of the dialogue and plot.
If a game is actively unfun to play, it doesn't matter how great the dialogue is because all you're thinking about is "Is the dialogue so good, that I want to keep subjecting myself to playing this?"
I mean, imagine watching a really good movie. But every ten minutes the movie is paused and you're forced to eat a bowl of bull testicles in order to continue. How long before you decide the movie really wasn't as good as you initially thought?
No you have to judge it based on gameplay because it's a game. Even when people play horror games you have expectations on gameplay because if the gameplay is bad you're too busy hating it as opposed to being scared.
I take your point but don't really agree. Gameplay comes into it of course - and if the gameplay is so bad you hate it, everything else becomes irrelevant. But in the same way that I played Grim Fandango more for the dialogue and plot than for the puzzles and the interaction, I enjoy the SH games more for the atmosphere than for the mechanics of playing them. They're among the few games I can gladly watch someone else play and enjoy, despite having played them already myself.
I didn't mean to suggest that the interaction with the game is irrelevant to me and I'm not saying that they'd work without that element. But I think saying a game has to be judged primarily on gameplay is a little like saying a film has to be based purely on its visuals, because that's the core element of the medium, when there's actually a lot of different elements coming together. I'm not trying to equate that with your comment by any means and I'm far too tired to articulate any better than this.
And I am articulating badly.
Adventure games are a bit of a cop out in that regard because there's very little in the way of gameplay, good or bad, to get in the way of the dialogue and plot.
If a game is actively unfun to play, it doesn't matter how great the dialogue is because all you're thinking about is "Is the dialogue so good, that I want to keep subjecting myself to playing this?"
I mean, imagine watching a really good movie. But every ten minutes the movie is paused and you're forced to eat a bowl of bull testicles in order to continue. How long before you decide the movie really wasn't as good as you initially thought?
Wait. Are we still talking about Silent Hill 4? I only had to eat bull testicles every ten minutes during the last third of that game.
But in seriousness my experience with SH4 was that I didn't mind the flaws in the actual gameplay because I enjoyed exploring the narrative and environments. As a counter example, I enjoyed the hell out of Gears of War because of the actual gameplay but found the characters and narrative totally uninteresting.
I absolutely agree that where something is actively unfun to play everything else rapidly becomes moot. None of the Silent Hill games have ever fallen into that category for me. But I do think some of the design choices or whatever can get in the way of enjoying the game.
That part definitely makes me more interested. Seems to be taking strides towards becoming an adventure game with awesome atmosphere. Even down to the combat (or lack thereof).
Cherrn on
All creature will die and all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai.
I really wish they'd put Silent Hill 2 on the 360's Xbox Classics download thingy. I finally decide I have the balls to play it, and I can't find a copy anywhere nearby.
I suppose I could just buy it on the internet, but waiting for it to ship lacks that same impulse buy feeling of buying a new game in person or downloading it.
I really wish they'd put Silent Hill 2 on the 360's Xbox Classics download thingy. I finally decide I have the balls to play it, and I can't find a copy anywhere nearby.
I suppose I could just buy it on the internet, but waiting for it to ship lacks that same impulse buy feeling of buying a new game in person or downloading it.
Beware - it is notoriously buggy when played on a 360. Ive read things ranging from whole textures failing to load and odd audio problems, all the way to game saves deleting themselves and it just flat out not working.
I had a copy, but gave it to my brother (he has an oXBox still) after reading about how bad it's emulation is.
mxmarks on
PSN: mxmarks - WiiU: mxmarks - twitter: @ MikesPS4 - twitch.tv/mxmarks - "Yes, mxmarks is the King of Queens" - Unbreakable Vow
Shattered Memories review on Eurogamer. Very good indeed. As someone who doesn't own a Wii, this may be the thing that finally convinces me to get one. But then again, I'm in the UK so it's not out over here until next year.
I'll link to the review but for anyone sensitive about spoilers, it's worth a warning. It's a case of describing puzzles, reactions to some of the analytical questions and set pieces rather than spoiling plot as such, but then I'm not sure how different (if at all) the plot is overall to SH 1.
I think the guy who wrote the review has been so keen to get across how much he enjoyed the game he's ended up describing some of his favourite parts. Would have been nice to be surprised by them. Like I said, some people may not mind description of scenarios and mechanics etc but I thought it best to give fair warning.
The cellphone in this game is buggy as shit. I've lost progress twice now due to my character getting stuck in 'look at phone' mode when backing out of the cellphone view. At one point, all I could see was my arm and the phone (Harry became a floating arm.), and I was unable to interact with anything.
I can see it not being scary, the monsters just seem to latch onto his bug and look like theyre hugging him, if he doesn't react they don't do anything. And I'll just add that it could look abstractly like a daughter hugging a father. I'm calling it bitches. The waggle also looks like it'd be iirritating, teh guy seems to spend a long time just making sure he hasn't missed something by wanding over it.
But the rest of it looks fairly decent and the music is good. There seems to be a less obvious driving force for the character this time though, He just seems to be going places where Harry followed Cheryls drawings.
DarkWarrior on
0
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Put in a little time with it, am ashamed to say I got stuck on what was probably the easiest "puzzle" in SH history.
I didn't know I could move while I was in the car! I never had to move in those look around parts before!
Running is actually pretty hectic I find. I got lost in the very first one because I went the wrong way after the pool and just looped around like 3 times before I finally got out. Stopping to check the map and then hearing the static close in is pretty freaky.
Posts
I think it's time to lay it to bed. And I say that as one of the few people I know who defends Homecoming.
Silent Hill 4 honestly is a pretty good game if you sort of forget that it's supposed to be a Silent Hill game while playing it.
Then again, I think I remember hearing rumors to the affect that it originally wasn't supposed to be a Silent Hill game, which would make sense.
I have few complaints about it all told. I haven't replayed it but enjoyed it a lot and got a good few scares out of it. I think I foolishly believe that taking it away from the SH franchise would have made it into a totally different game, which is obviously ridiculous. But the room concept, I reckon, has a lot of potential as a more adventure-type game.
And the modern urban environment, outside the window, is so unusual and evocative for a horror game. Shame that, subway areas aside, the game doesn't play with that too much.
SH4 also has one of the best trailers ever. 'tis long but worth it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiFaGtzJ7Ds
I take your point but don't really agree. Gameplay comes into it of course - and if the gameplay is so bad you hate it, everything else becomes irrelevant. But in the same way that I played Grim Fandango more for the dialogue and plot than for the puzzles and the interaction, I enjoy the SH games more for the atmosphere than for the mechanics of playing them. They're among the few games I can gladly watch someone else play and enjoy, despite having played them already myself.
I didn't mean to suggest that the interaction with the game is irrelevant to me and I'm not saying that they'd work without that element. But I think saying a game has to be judged primarily on gameplay is a little like saying a film has to be based purely on its visuals, because that's the core element of the medium, when there's actually a lot of different elements coming together. I'm not trying to equate that with your comment by any means and I'm far too tired to articulate any better than this.
And I am articulating badly.
Adventure games are a bit of a cop out in that regard because there's very little in the way of gameplay, good or bad, to get in the way of the dialogue and plot.
If a game is actively unfun to play, it doesn't matter how great the dialogue is because all you're thinking about is "Is the dialogue so good, that I want to keep subjecting myself to playing this?"
I mean, imagine watching a really good movie. But every ten minutes the movie is paused and you're forced to eat a bowl of bull testicles in order to continue. How long before you decide the movie really wasn't as good as you initially thought?
Wait. Are we still talking about Silent Hill 4? I only had to eat bull testicles every ten minutes during the last third of that game.
But in seriousness my experience with SH4 was that I didn't mind the flaws in the actual gameplay because I enjoyed exploring the narrative and environments. As a counter example, I enjoyed the hell out of Gears of War because of the actual gameplay but found the characters and narrative totally uninteresting.
I absolutely agree that where something is actively unfun to play everything else rapidly becomes moot. None of the Silent Hill games have ever fallen into that category for me. But I do think some of the design choices or whatever can get in the way of enjoying the game.
Doesn't sound a problem to me at all.
I suppose I could just buy it on the internet, but waiting for it to ship lacks that same impulse buy feeling of buying a new game in person or downloading it.
edit: okay, checking now and it seems to be $100. Guess I got it at a good time. :P
Beware - it is notoriously buggy when played on a 360. Ive read things ranging from whole textures failing to load and odd audio problems, all the way to game saves deleting themselves and it just flat out not working.
I had a copy, but gave it to my brother (he has an oXBox still) after reading about how bad it's emulation is.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
But it isn't really.
I bet it'll turn out that Cybil's a robot who wants to learn human emotions for you.
The big plot twist is that the whole town is an alien robot town because I'm Harry from the original UFO ending.
Huh? Radio? What's wrong with that radio?
Oh god. It all makes sense now
Also, let us know how awesome (pleasepleaseplease) it is.
Youtube Channel!
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShotMyEyeOut10#p/u/16/Xpg5pmRjRi4
Sort of annoyed that I won't really have a chance to sit down with this until sometime Wednesday.
Is it a spoiler if you're just guessing?
Is if Im right.
Considering that
I'll link to the review but for anyone sensitive about spoilers, it's worth a warning. It's a case of describing puzzles, reactions to some of the analytical questions and set pieces rather than spoiling plot as such, but then I'm not sure how different (if at all) the plot is overall to SH 1.
I think the guy who wrote the review has been so keen to get across how much he enjoyed the game he's ended up describing some of his favourite parts. Would have been nice to be surprised by them. Like I said, some people may not mind description of scenarios and mechanics etc but I thought it best to give fair warning.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/silent-hill-shattered-memories-review
Good sign.
I recommend saving often.
"Hostility," "Devil's Laughter," and "Angel's Scream" fuck yes.
But the rest of it looks fairly decent and the music is good. There seems to be a less obvious driving force for the character this time though, He just seems to be going places where Harry followed Cheryls drawings.
Akira Yamaoka, same as always.
And for the last time.
Running is actually pretty hectic I find. I got lost in the very first one because I went the wrong way after the pool and just looped around like 3 times before I finally got out. Stopping to check the map and then hearing the static close in is pretty freaky.