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Champions Online - Men in Tights (and Furries, Oh God the Furries)

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    SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So I think, at level 16, I can lodge my first real complaint about this game.

    This game revolves around Constitution.

    It's the No. 1 stat for all frameworks, regardless of what the screen says. I've really come to notice this since I'm pretty much stacking Dex/Ego with Const as the third option on my Munitions guy. I just don't have the HP to match up to the enemies of my level. I'm constantly getting rocked. If I have to fight anything more than group of 3 henchman or 1 henchman / 1 villian, I'm not gonna win.

    Whenever I party with someone, they have tons more health than I do. I did Fight Club, a level 16 3 person quest last night. The level 14 in our party had 2300 hp, the level 19 had 2100 and at 15/16 (leveled mid mission) I had 1400. And I died like 7 times. Now, the level 14 was a retard who bull rushed everything and pulled half the room over and over, but I still shouldn't have died as many times as I did.

    I'm not saying the game shoudln't be challenging, it should be. There should be a degree of difficulty to it. But it just seems so ridiculous that stacking your health seems to be the only way to survive anything.
    I have a PA/Munitions character that is STR/DEX, and she does just fine on missions 3+ to her. I barely have any +CON gear, it's all mainly +DEX/+EGO stuff.

    For those wondering, STR is there for the bonus it gives Invuln.

    Syngyne on
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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    If anything, this game, as Justin put it, revolves around your choice of slotted passive. Not constitution.

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I made an Iron Eagle and Red Dawn for the contest.
    Some 80's movie titles make surprisingly cool super hero names.

    The Big Chill
    The All Nighter
    St. Elmo's Fire
    Action Jackson
    The Abyss
    Child's Play
    Young Guns
    Willow
    Weird Science
    War Games
    Victor/Victoria

    I like the last one.

    Shawnasee on
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't even know what a defensive passive is. Perhaps I don't even have one. As I noted on page 5...
    Build by championBuilder 0.3.2

    Download this Build here.

    justin: Level 40 Champion

    Superstats:
    Level 5: Super Dexterity
    Level 13: Super Ego

    Powers:
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo -- Rank 2, Accelerated Metabolism, Rank 3
    Level 5: Killer Instinct
    Level 5: Jet Boots -- Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 8: Shotgun Blast -- Breaching Round
    Level 11: Lock And Load
    Level 14: Lead Tempest -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism
    Level 17: Sneak -- Silent Running, Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 20: Smoke Bomb -- Concussive Escapes, Rank 2
    Level 23: Sniper Rifle -- Tungsten Rounds, Rank 2
    Level 26: Breakaway Shot
    Level 29: Bullet Ballet
    Level 32: Frag Grenade -- Incendiary Grenade, Rank 2, Accelerated Metabolism
    Level 35: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Resurgent Reiki
    Level 35: Teleport -- Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 38: Mini Mines

    Talents:
    Level 1: Quick Trigger
    Level 6: Sniper Training
    Level 9: Acrobat
    Level 12: Shooter
    Level 15: Survival Training
    Level 18: Field Ops Training
    Level 21: Jack Of All Trades

    This is the build I'm working with. I currently hit 16 and have Rank 2 of Lead Tempest. I asked for critiques of this and got none, sooo I just kinda went with it. I really can't afford to Retcon, as it seems to cost a ton of resources.

    JustinSane07 on
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    You don't need to retcon, just pick up a defensive power instead next choice and adjust accordingly. You can make it to that point right? Defensive instead of Sneak, figure out what power you will drop overall.

    Infidel on
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    The DagonThe Dagon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Hey, aren't we getting another free retcon with the next content patch, Bloodmoon?

    The Dagon on
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    ShawnaseeShawnasee Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The Dagon wrote: »
    Hey, aren't we getting another free retcon with the next content patch, Bloodmoon?

    We should be getting one when the patch on test goes live. So before the Bloodmoon I am pretty sure.

    Shawnasee on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't even know what a defensive passive is. Perhaps I don't even have one. As I noted on page 5...
    Build by championBuilder 0.3.2

    Download this Build here.

    justin: Level 40 Champion

    Superstats:
    Level 5: Super Dexterity
    Level 13: Super Ego

    Powers:
    Level 1: Gunslinger
    Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo -- Rank 2, Accelerated Metabolism, Rank 3
    Level 5: Killer Instinct
    Level 5: Jet Boots -- Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 8: Shotgun Blast -- Breaching Round
    Level 11: Lock And Load
    Level 14: Lead Tempest -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism
    Level 17: Sneak -- Silent Running, Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 20: Smoke Bomb -- Concussive Escapes, Rank 2
    Level 23: Sniper Rifle -- Tungsten Rounds, Rank 2
    Level 26: Breakaway Shot
    Level 29: Bullet Ballet
    Level 32: Frag Grenade -- Incendiary Grenade, Rank 2, Accelerated Metabolism
    Level 35: Bountiful Chi Resurgence -- Resurgent Reiki
    Level 35: Teleport -- Rank 2, Rank 3
    Level 38: Mini Mines

    Talents:
    Level 1: Quick Trigger
    Level 6: Sniper Training
    Level 9: Acrobat
    Level 12: Shooter
    Level 15: Survival Training
    Level 18: Field Ops Training
    Level 21: Jack Of All Trades

    This is the build I'm working with. I currently hit 16 and have Rank 2 of Lead Tempest. I asked for critiques of this and got none, sooo I just kinda went with it. I really can't afford to Retcon, as it seems to cost a ton of resources.

    I've read (but not experienced) that Sniper Rifle is pretty underwhelming. I'd take that out and push the rest of your choices up a level. You'll get your next power at 17 so I would definetly not waste your free retcon on this.

    Dr. Face on
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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    The Dagon wrote: »
    Hey, aren't we getting another free retcon with the next content patch, Bloodmoon?

    They said they'll give a free retcon when they make the economy changes that are on the test server. I don't think that they have said anything about (and I doubt they will give) a free retcon for the Bloodmoon patch.

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    JustinSane07 on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Super Dex will benefit Lightning Reflexes most - but many people complain it is pretty inferior to Invulnerable and Regeneration. Invul would be good if you make a point of getting Str and Con gear - or get Regeneration and don't worry about it as there isn't a need to boost stats to see the benefits of Regen. Regen though works best with blocking often as it doesn't increase your resistance to damage at all - it just lets you recover from it fast and in combat.

    [Edit]: I've not taken Invul when not super stating Str - anyone know if it works ok with low Str?

    Dr. Face on
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    HarlonHarlon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't even know what a defensive passive is. Perhaps I don't even have one. As I noted on page 5...

    This is the build I'm working with. I currently hit 16 and have Rank 2 of Lead Tempest. I asked for critiques of this and got none, sooo I just kinda went with it. I really can't afford to Retcon, as it seems to cost a ton of resources.

    As recommended, take a passive defense for your next ability - Lightning Reflexes (from the martial arts sets) or Regeneration (from the supernatural set) are two good ones. I would take mini mines early - it's DAMN powerful, sniper shot is also powerful with rank 3 (crits for 4k at level 29 for me). Sneak and Smoke Bomb are good choices depending upon your play style, whereas frag grenade, breakaway shot, and bullet ballet aren't necessary skills. For attack skills, two gun mojo + lead tempest + shotgun are all you really need as munitions to cover all of your bases. I would add in a block from whatever set you want. Personally, I chose might's block because it's the only one without an animation that steals away from my character concept.

    If you want more mitigation, you could choose active defenses. If you want more control, a CC power or two. The Gadgetry power set has a lot of those.

    Edit: Also, I use Lightning Reflexes and it is indeed inferior to Regeneration. However, it is not bad and works better than regeneration with teammates who can heal. Also, it works very well with the craftable Heal over Time consumables.

    Harlon on
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    wolfgangpgwolfgangpg Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Another free Retcon is coming with the economy patch which is due before Blood Moon.

    wolfgangpg on
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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I don't even know what a defensive passive is.
    A defensive passive is a slotted passive ability that can be used in defensive or balanced roles.


    Maybe we should start a list for the OP about "things you should consider when choosing powers". First on that list? Defensive passives make soloing 100% easier.

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    YoshuaYoshua Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    Yoshua on
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    What the fuck is PFF?

    Also what exactly is a Block? Does it replace the block you get from the beginning or something?

    JustinSane07 on
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What exactly is broken about LR right now? I have been managing ok.

    Sure it's not the uber Regen defense but still helps a lot.

    Infidel on
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What the fuck is PFF?

    Also what exactly is a Block? Does it replace the block you get from the beginning or something?

    Yes, you drop the power "over" your block and it improves it. Ups the resistance from 200% (default) to 250% usually, and gives an additional benefit.

    Infidel on
    OrokosPA.png
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    HarlonHarlon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    Just because Lightning Reflexes isn't great doesn't mean it's broken. It could just use a buff to put it in line with other defenses. PFF is also not broken, I've seen it used very successfully - especially in PvP.

    Harlon on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    It's pretty uselss now as its just extra HP that doesn't regenerate very fast (like your normal HP). Self Healing with Regen or actual damage mitigation with Invul are far superior. If Lightning Reflexes mitigated a bit more it would also be a good choice. If PFF regenerated faster or had higher HP (maybe not as much as it had before) it would be competitive with the rest as well. Isn't there a def passive in Might? Is that any good?

    Dr. Face on
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    HarlonHarlon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Dr. Face wrote: »
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    It's pretty uselss now as its just extra HP that doesn't regenerate very fast (like your normal HP). Self Healing with Regen or actual damage mitigation with Invul are far superior. If Lightning Reflexes mitigated a bit more it would also be a good choice. If PFF regenerated faster or had higher HP (maybe not as much as it had before) it would be competitive with the rest as well. Isn't there a def passive in Might? Is that any good?

    Yes, Defiance. It's about on par with Lightning Reflexes, but it gives you energy every time you're hit. It also gives a buff that provides increased mitigation every time you're hit, stacking up to 10. In the long run, it actually becomes better than Invulnerability, after the full 10 stacks.

    Harlon on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Harlon wrote: »
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    Just because Lightning Reflexes isn't great doesn't mean it's broken. It could just use a buff to put it in line with other defenses. PFF is also not broken, I've seen it used very successfully - especially in PvP.

    Are you sure you're not confusing PFF with the force advantage that gives you a bubble shield? PFF doesn't give you a bubble, its just a slight aura that is actually hard to see. My PFF character with superstated End and a lot of Ego gear gets creamed in PvP. My Invul character with the bubble advantage is like a god.

    Dr. Face on
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    HarlonHarlon Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah, PFF with the Energy Surge ability (I forgot what it's called exactly) works great in PvP for support characters.

    Harlon on
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    KylogueKylogue Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    LR definitely needs a buff... I used LR in nearly all my toons, but recently I created "Norway Man" who is an Ice user, since he has great recovery I decided to try regen. Man... At level 10, I could handle a 3 minions and 2 lieutenants spawn. At the same level with LR, I always felt 2 minions and 1 lieutenant were more than enough.

    Kylogue on
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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yoshua wrote: »
    Okay so if I drop Sniper at 23 and pick up a Defensive passive at 17, what's a good one for me to have as a Munitions framework?

    Regen, invulnerability, pretty much anything other than lightning reflexes or PFF* since they are broken right now (and your stats are all wrong to support PFF). I don't know what you had in mind conceptually though.

    *I've heard mixed things about PFF, some say it works great and a lot of people say it's fairly useless now. Perhaps someone using it successfully can post how they do it.

    I'm currently level 25, and I've had no complaints about PFF. Now, I am ego/end and my gear is slanted that way though I have a good bit of dex (doesn't help if you have giant crits, if you never crit) as well as some strength and recovery mixed in there. I've been able to solo almost all the content so far, except for a couple buggers (that last gadroon guy on the ship? fuck that guy). For reference, I have 97ish end and ego on my character currently.

    Now admittedly, I have two powers that help with survivability, the force active defense (which I can't remember the name of) which gives a quick boost to the PFF as well as the shield proc advantage to my force bolts.

    But I really can't compare this to say if I had invulnerability or regen, since I've never used them. But pretty much my playstyle is running around knocking people to kingdom come which also helps with mitigation (enemies aren't damaging you if they're falling off a cliff :) ).

    So, in conclusion, certainly not useless if you put some investment in it, but how useful it is compared to invulnerability or regen, I don't know how to compare.

    On a tangent, but it would be really, really nice if they put some type of "shield bar" in the UI, so I could actually tell what is happening, and when is my shield about to run out.

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    SkyCaptainSkyCaptain IndianaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    They're working on puttin in a UI element for the PFF.

    SkyCaptain on
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    IvanIssacsIvanIssacs Skull Leader SDF-1Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    If they would up the regen rate and put the above mentioned bar in the ui, I'd use PFF more.

    IvanIssacs on
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    NATIKNATIK DenmarkRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I have used PFF successfully to level 34, I never found it to be seriously lacking, but then again I haven't compared it too Regen or Invul. In fact without PFF I would have had very hard time soloing some of the things I did.

    NATIK on
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so you guys have given me an idea of various passives, Reflexes, Regen, Invuln. Good, I'll pick one of those up at 17.

    Now that someone mentioned Blocks.

    Where can I find those and which one fits me best?

    JustinSane07 on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so you guys have given me an idea of various passives, Reflexes, Regen, Invuln. Good, I'll pick one of those up at 17.

    Now that someone mentioned Blocks.

    Where can I find those and which one fits me best?

    If you don't want a visible shield effect for thematic reasons go with the block under Might, Retaliation. Otherwise there are blocks in Elec, Force (which is really really good), Ice, Dark, Sorcery, Telekinesis and Power Armor. But all of these have a visible shield effect of some kind. I like the Force on a lot, but it has one of the most obvious/large shield effects.

    [Edit] Looks like the elec one is the same effect as the Force one, but with electricity all over it.

    electricshield01.gif

    Dr. Face on
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    chrono_travellerchrono_traveller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Okay so you guys have given me an idea of various passives, Reflexes, Regen, Invuln. Good, I'll pick one of those up at 17.

    Now that someone mentioned Blocks.

    Where can I find those and which one fits me best?

    I think every framework has a block, so you can find those just about everywhere. As to which fits you best, I dunno. Most blocks are cut and dry, with a few that have an advantage that gives it a bit of flavor. Some have the perk of lingering a bit after you stop blocking while others do some damage to your attackers (electric) or debuff them (ice). I've mostly just stuck with the block that is in my main framework.

    chrono_traveller on
    The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it. ~ Terry Pratchett
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    mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Dr. Face wrote: »
    Okay so you guys have given me an idea of various passives, Reflexes, Regen, Invuln. Good, I'll pick one of those up at 17.

    Now that someone mentioned Blocks.

    Where can I find those and which one fits me best?

    If you don't want a visible shield effect for thematic reasons go with the block under Might, Retaliation. Otherwise there are blocks in Elec, Force (which is really really good), Ice, Dark, Sorcery and Power Armor. But all of these have a visible shield effect of some kind. I like the Force on a lot, but it has one of the most obvious/large shield effects.

    I think the more popular blocks are the one in Telekinetics(?) and Force because they have an advantage which causes them to linger for a bit. (I think Darkness does something like this too maybe?) The Power Armor block looks more technological if that's what you're going for.

    mrflippy on
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Hmm, maybe a big glowing ball would work for my guy if I can change it's color to purple.

    It'd just be like "The focused energy of my Pimp Hand stops your bitch attack!"

    JustinSane07 on
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    TagTag Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    LR for me has gotten better and better as I level up, but I will always be the die-hard LR supporter on these boards it seems :P Now that I get to add dig to that, I might soon get to claim the Lost Causes award!

    Blocks:
    TK and Darkness add a lingering damage reduction after you stop blocking. This allows you to tap block for a lasting damage reduction. Force Shield also has a linger but its much less mitigation in exchange for much more energy return. Retaliation provides a big damage buff on your first attack out of block, but it often gets eaten by your energy builder if you don't pay attention. Ice block chills people that attack you, electric block returns a small amount of damage, and sorcery block is a gimped version of TK's.

    Tag on
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    FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Harlon wrote: »
    Yes, Defiance. It's about on par with Lightning Reflexes, but it gives you energy every time you're hit. It also gives a buff that provides increased mitigation every time you're hit, stacking up to 10. In the long run, it actually becomes better than Invulnerability, after the full 10 stacks.

    Accually, Defiance only stacks 6 times, it says 8, but it really is only 6...

    AKINOS!! :P

    Foefaller on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Hmm, maybe a big glowing ball would work for my guy if I can change it's color to purple.

    It'd just be like "The focused energy of my Pimp Hand stops your bitch attack!"

    If you don't mind the big glowing ball go Force Shield as it not only mitigates damage it turns some of that damage into energy, so you can build energy while blocking (and if you take Regen you'll also be gaining HP).

    Dr. Face on
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    JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Can I change the color of the ball?

    If so, I'm going with Regen and Force Block.

    The other big problem of my character is the max of energy passively gained. The little orange thing is at about 33% on my bar. I have like 150 energy total, but I only passively gain to 50. Is Recovery the stat that moves the little orange marker?

    JustinSane07 on
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    Dr. FaceDr. Face King of Pants Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Can I change the color of the ball?

    If so, I'm going with Regen and Force Block.

    The other big problem of my character is the max of energy passively gained. The little orange thing is at about 33% on my bar. I have like 150 energy total, but I only passively gain to 50. Is Recovery the stat that moves the little orange marker?

    Yeah you can make it pink if you like.

    Dr. Face on
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    MimasMimas Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Yeah you can, I changed the color of both my regen and force block to red. Recovery is the stat that moves that marker, on my munitions guy Im playing right now my superstats are dex/edo, and I boost rec as a third stat on items. Also, regen scales with rec so that will help out some too.

    Mimas on
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    TheScrupleTheScruple The Oldest of BridgesRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I should bring up that the Power Armor block with the Laser Knight advantage activates a toned-down version of the block whenever you use a melee attack. The tradeoff is a hit in damage, around 15% overall, but it's still fantastic for mitigation.

    Laser Knight + Defensive Combo + Invul = unkillable profit.

    TheScruple on
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