So I just read the world building blog that Daniel Erickson did, and I have to say that this game is a cruel mistress. At times I feel concerned that this game will be purely about the story. That it's just 8 single player games where you'll see other real people walking around, but it's not that important. Other times, these previews make me forget about caring.
So I just read the world building blog that Daniel Erickson did, and I have to say that this game is a cruel mistress. At times I feel concerned that this game will be purely about the story. That it's just 8 single player games where you'll see other real people walking around, but it's not that important. Other times, these previews make me forget about caring.
A story only MMO will suck, because story isn't truly immersive until you can connect the reason why your shooting that Jedi in the head with the actual act of doing so, rendering in good graphics and made possible with good gameplay and combat mechanics. When I go out to kick some ass, I don't want to just know why, and have that why explained to me with fancy cutscenes and voice acting, I also want to kick some ass.
This game really does have moments where it feels like it'll be too heavy on the storytelling, and other times it kicks you in the face through the screen and says "You know you want to subscribe to this".
Why does there have to be a reason? If i could shoot lightning out of my hands I would do that all day just for fun.
Some people, myself included, get a sense of epic joy when we go about killing mans after we've been exposed to a storyline that shows us the reasons those mans must be killed. Like, if your a Jedi, and some drug running smugglers are ruining a struggling colony's youth, you'll be talking to fully voice acted people decrying the situation wanting an end to it. And you can oblige.
And, even better, if your like a Sith or Imperial agent sent to assasinate a rogue Imperial Moff and you go in there with an NPC Sith to do the deed only to discover that the Moff is planning a kind of coup on your Imperial boss, and your NPC helper is actually a double agent. He proceeds to stab you in the back and you proceed to kill them both in some grisly manner deserving of traitors.
And those are just two, off the top of my head ideas. Bioware are the definition of good story, so there's no telling what crazy awesome stuff they can create with the Star Wars lore at their disposal.
I'm just fine with killing shit just for the sake of it, but I sometimes want more.
I just hope that the Sith, especially the Infiltrator and Inquisitor, have a dark side that's more insidious than stealing candy from babies. I mean, all the dark side choices in KOTOR 1 and most of them in 2 were so laughable it made playing a dark side character either hilarious or impossible. I want circuitous plans that are complete in measurable portions and that screw everyone but me and put even good guys in places where they must choose between evil acts. And then I want to circuitously use that initial push to turn that good guy to the Dark Side. Basically I want to be the Joker from the Dark Knight, except as a Sith and a little less makeup.
Some makeup. Just less.
Terrendos on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I just hope that the Sith, especially the Infiltrator and Inquisitor, have a dark side that's more insidious than stealing candy from babies. I mean, all the dark side choices in KOTOR 1 and most of them in 2 were so laughable it made playing a dark side character either hilarious or impossible. I want circuitous plans that are complete in measurable portions and that screw everyone but me and put even good guys in places where they must choose between evil acts. And then I want to circuitously use that initial push to turn that good guy to the Dark Side. Basically I want to be the Joker from the Dark Knight, except as a Sith and a little less makeup.
Some makeup. Just less.
Everything you said plus the ability to wear Reven's faceplate. That's what I want to see. Schemes so convoluted and diabolical that even the machinations of the Emperor will pale in comparison.
I mean seriously, I think the best part about being an Inquisitor would be setting up your apprentice kind of like the Emperor did Vader. Manipulating his actions so that slowly, carefully, he is drawn into your clutches could have some great potential. And then there's the whole "master v apprentice" dynamic, so you'd constantly be watching him, alert for the first signs of betrayal.
And every few months, when he starts to turn traitorous, you can space him and get a new one! Maybe a hot Twi'lek chick this time!
Terrendos on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I mean seriously, I think the best part about being an Inquisitor would be setting up your apprentice kind of like the Emperor did Vader. Manipulating his actions so that slowly, carefully, he is drawn into your clutches could have some great potential. And then there's the whole "master v apprentice" dynamic, so you'd constantly be watching him, alert for the first signs of betrayal.
And every few months, when he starts to turn traitorous, you can space him and get a new one! Maybe a hot Twi'lek chick this time!
I just hope that the Sith, especially the Infiltrator and Inquisitor, have a dark side that's more insidious than stealing candy from babies. I mean, all the dark side choices in KOTOR 1 and most of them in 2 were so laughable it made playing a dark side character either hilarious or impossible. I want circuitous plans that are complete in measurable portions and that screw everyone but me and put even good guys in places where they must choose between evil acts. And then I want to circuitously use that initial push to turn that good guy to the Dark Side. Basically I want to be the Joker from the Dark Knight, except as a Sith and a little less makeup.
Some makeup. Just less.
Wait, do you mean laughable as in "So terrible and evil that you laugh rather than taking that option"?
Because some of the shit you could do was monstrous. If anything, my issue with the dark side paths in KOTOR were that I don't think Palpatine or Vader were constantly, casually evil to random individual strangers for a few credits or because they were having a bad day. Sure, they would gladly blow up an entire planet to make a point, but can you imagine Palpatine crossing his lawn just to force choke a random person for no reason? Not very likely. Vader executed people who failed, but did we ever see him kill people for shits and giggles (ignoring the prequels, because they don't exist)? But in KOTOR you frequently had opportunities to be "dark" that simply consisted of being greedy, sadistic, and petty; none of which makes you an epic villain, it just makes you an asshole.
I just hope that the Sith, especially the Infiltrator and Inquisitor, have a dark side that's more insidious than stealing candy from babies. I mean, all the dark side choices in KOTOR 1 and most of them in 2 were so laughable it made playing a dark side character either hilarious or impossible. I want circuitous plans that are complete in measurable portions and that screw everyone but me and put even good guys in places where they must choose between evil acts. And then I want to circuitously use that initial push to turn that good guy to the Dark Side. Basically I want to be the Joker from the Dark Knight, except as a Sith and a little less makeup.
Some makeup. Just less.
Wait, do you mean laughable as in "So terrible and evil that you laugh rather than taking that option"?
Because some of the shit you could do was monstrous. If anything, my issue with the dark side paths in KOTOR were that I don't think Palpatine or Vader were constantly, casually evil to random individual strangers for a few credits or because they were having a bad day. Sure, they would gladly blow up an entire planet to make a point, but can you imagine Palpatine crossing his lawn just to force choke a random person for no reason? Not very likely. Vader executed people who failed, but did we ever see him kill people for shits and giggles (ignoring the prequels, because they don't exist)? But in KOTOR you frequently had opportunities to be "dark" that simply consisted of being greedy, sadistic, and petty; none of which makes you an epic villain, it just makes you an asshole.
There's definitely poorly conceived dark side point moments, where someone is like "Hey can you help me with this thing?" and there's an option that is literally, "No I think I'll kill you instead." It makes playing a Darkside character unrewarding. And I mean that from a narrative perspective.
But then they have moments like a guy asks you to save his wife from being another guy's dancing whore, and you can buy the wife and then make her dance for you instead rather than return her to her man (at which point she leaves anyway, for the light side points). That's an acceptable subtle evil deed. Nobody dies.
They're capable of evil moments that are of actual benefit or make sense from a narrative perspective. I just hope that TOR has a stronger presence of that instead of killing people who brush shoulders with you on the sidewalk.
I'll spoiler this just in case (Aeris dies type info from KOTOR 1) but
Making the wookie kill the twilek girl in KOTOR
was probably the most fucked up thing in the game, and yet it was appropriately evil, just the kind of thing a real Sith would do. Even though it backfires eventually when
the wookie goes nuts,
it still makes sense from a stylistic perspective. Sith lords are always trying to corrupt people and exert power over them.
Now, that part actually offended my sensibilities enough that I didn't complete the game as a dark side character, but then I am a huge pussy. But I did appreciate the legitimacy of it.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
They're capable of evil moments that are of actual benefit or make sense from a narrative perspective. I just hope that TOR has a stronger presence of that instead of killing people who brush shoulders with you on the sidewalk.
Even that can work too if done right. Being able to mind trick the two thugs into walking off the ledge turned what was in narrative a random encounter into something memorable. Being able to casually kill things with words adds something special.
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
I can't even wrap my mind around this. How do you not continue playing the game?
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
I can't even wrap my mind around this. How do you not continue playing the game?
I had already beaten the game as a light side character twice (once male, once female) and that scene is literally, 1-1.5 hours of gameplay away from the ending. Probably less than an hour if you've built a solid combat monster (easy by endgame to do so).
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
I can't even wrap my mind around this. How do you not continue playing the game?
I had already beaten the game as a light side character twice (once male, once female) and that scene is literally, 1-1.5 hours of gameplay away from the ending. Probably less than an hour if you've built a solid combat monster (easy by endgame to do so).
Okay....and? The end game is still different for Dark Side than Light Side. So why wouldn't you want to see?
I mean, you were playing Dark Side for a reason. You were doing bad shit for all of the game and then OH NO, THIS IS TOO CRUEL.
I've already known about that part, but still haven't seen it first hand.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
I can't even wrap my mind around this. How do you not continue playing the game?
I had already beaten the game as a light side character twice (once male, once female) and that scene is literally, 1-1.5 hours of gameplay away from the ending. Probably less than an hour if you've built a solid combat monster (easy by endgame to do so).
Okay....and? The end game is still different for Dark Side than Light Side. So why wouldn't you want to see?
I mean, you were playing Dark Side for a reason. You were doing bad shit for all of the game and then OH NO, THIS IS TOO CRUEL.
I hate being evil though. I only played a dark side character because a friend insisted that I just had to because it was awesome. So I did every evil thing you can do and finally reached my overload point. Later I was chatting with the same friend and told him about it. He just laughed at me and said that there was no need to choose every possible dark side option over the course of the game. He was right of course, but I didn't know any better.
If I go through a game like that and make the choices I prefer to, I end up playing a paladin every single time.
-edit-
also, the third tier force lightning power trivialized combat and probably played a role in spoiling my enjoyment of that run through.
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game. Honestly? The best writing mostly shows up when you're a bastard. Can't really say anything interesting about someone playing as space pope john paul 2, but playing as space george bush or space mussolini gets you all kinds of fun drama and interesting conflicts.
It would be fun if your little cast of npc's is well written enough that you don't want to hurt them , but if I have to stab my npc's in the face until stops being funny to get trained in the next level of force lightning, than there's just no other way for that to end.
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
Yes, and some people enjoy immersing themselves in games, at which point being a complete dick becomes distasteful (unless you're already a complete dick, I suppose) and sours the game. More so when the game actually reacts reasonably realistically, rather than hilariously.
Like Jeepguy I also tend to play good guys, with minor vices like stealing. I find videos of Renegade ME runs hilarious, but couldn't actually play through the game like that simply because I wouldn't want to play a character that acts like that.
Glal on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Henroid on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Need to re-iterate that, it's important when explaining emotional investment to people.
Corehealer on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Need to re-iterate that, it's important when explaining emotional investment to people.
Oh well since you asked they work via
Nah I'm just fuckin wid ya
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Thank you for saying this for me. Yes, I have trouble being a really bad person in a video game; horror films, end of the world disaster films and some war films make me feel somewhat ill and I always cry when i watch the end of Field of Dreams.
I feel slightly sorry for people who don't have an emotional response to any of the various forms of entertainment we are privileged to have in modern times. I blame autism.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
My first time through KotOR, which was when I was right out of highschool, I was able to go through as Dark Side with no problem. And the Light Side part of the game just didn't interest me. At the time, I was an emotional basket case.
I picked up the game again when I got the Star Wars Best of PC pack a couple years ago, and I tried to do the dark side thing again... but it didn't feel right. And lo and behold, the light side part of the game sings to me. It actually feels rewarding. I think in growing up I've lost attachment with the whole "oh man the bad guys are cool" thing.
Henroid on
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Thank you for saying this for me. Yes, I have trouble being a really bad person in a video game; horror films, end of the world disaster films and some war films make me feel somewhat ill and I always cry when i watch the end of Field of Dreams.
I feel slightly sorry for people who don't have an emotional response to any of the various forms of entertainment we are privileged to have in modern times. I blame autism.
I'm autistic and I have emotions and become emotionally invested in games I play and things I watch/do. I simply experience emotions in a different, less outwardly apparent way. And that's just my indiviudal experience. The only universally emotionless people on Earth are psychopathics who don't have things like empathy and can't be emotionally invested in anything because they have an uncounscious fear that they will be somehow harmed by doing so, among other things.
I'm not saying everyone here who doesn't like to RP is a pychopath, thats silly. But saying that the majority of people who watch movies, listen to music, play games, etc, don't become emotionally invested in that media they are watching/participating in, even if it's not to the degree of tears or RPing the content, is even sillier. Nearly everyone has emotions they experience to differing degrees when confronted with things in life. Emotions are by defintion about attachment to that emotion and what it represents, like a friend or a favorite movie or a particular memory.
Corehealer on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I never understood why people feel bad when they do something in a video game. I like it when the writing makes you care about what's up with the characters, but it's just a game.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Thank you for saying this for me. Yes, I have trouble being a really bad person in a video game; horror films, end of the world disaster films and some war films make me feel somewhat ill and I always cry when i watch the end of Field of Dreams.
I feel slightly sorry for people who don't have an emotional response to any of the various forms of entertainment we are privileged to have in modern times. I blame autism.
I'm autistic and I have emotions and become emotionally invested in games I play and things I watch/do. I simply experience emotions in a different, less outwardly apparent way. And that's just my indiviudal experience. The only universally emotionless people on Earth are psychopathics who don't have things like empathy and can't be emotionally invested in anything because they have an uncounscious fear that they will be somehow harmed by doing so, among other things.
I'm not saying everyone here who doesn't like to RP is a pychopath, thats silly. But saying that the majority of people who watch movies, listen to music, play games, etc, don't become emotionally invested in that media they are watching/participating in, even if it's not to the degree of tears or RPing the content, is even sillier. Nearly everyone has emotions they experience to differing degrees when confronted with things in life. Emotions are by defintion about attachment to that emotion and what it represents, like a friend or a favorite movie or a particular memory.
And yet people poop on you for saying you had an emotional reaction to doing something abominable in a video game. :?
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
Depends on the emotion your using to react to a given "abominable" situation.
If I react to mass murder in a shooter game with sadness and anger at the perpetrators, I do not deserve poop.
If I react to the murders with glee and sadistic enjoyment, or if I ignore the horridness of the situation with political justifications of some kind in the lore, I deserve poop. Unless I'm only pretending to be that way as a RPer. Then I just deserve lore poop.
This goes into the area of how seriously you take your role in the game, what role your actually taking, and how far you let the game take you emotionally. Becoming emotionally obsessed with a game is bad, emotional investment is good. Pretending to be a sadistic asshole who enjoys mass murder in the game is different and has more of a fun factor to it then actually getting some sick kicks out of watching a kid get his head blown off. Not that very many games even do that.
People have varying and usually healthy degrees to which they become a part of the media they watch especially with video games where you become involved in how it plays out. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, unless you let it go to far and influence your life outside the game in detrimental ways. RPers don't deserve poop, and neither do people who become invested in media emotionally. It's only those who don't know the line and cross it to a point where they get covered with real poop.
EDIT: Getting back on track, I'm not sure if this has been posted but there's a new page on the SWTOR site detailing how the Advanced Class system will be implemented and it looks remiscent of WoW's talent system, at a glance. http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes
I think this is one of the more interesting thing I've seen done in talents in a long time. It gives enough variation to the class so any person can stylize his/her character to their play style but enough overarching similarities to make the class still identifiable and easily distinguishable from the others.
Some people like to live the story, some people like to put half a dozen mines in the road and wait to see what happens. It's a game, having fun with it is what your supposed to do, it's not autism. :x
I just don't have an emotional reaction to events that I make happen in games. So I could have my KotOR character do the most dramatic stuff in the galaxy, but since I was doing it, it doesn't affect me. That may be because almost all RPG characters are blank slates with a plot-centric backstory and amnesia.
But then take a game like Max Payne 2 or Shadow of the Colossus. Sure, I'm doing these things, but none of it is my choice. And the real story elements tend to happen in cutscenes, out of my control. The creators are still telling me a story (or in the case of MP2, guiding me through a story) instead of asking me to create it and own it. If a game tells me a good story, then it's likely I'll get into it and hang onto those characters.
Renzo on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited May 2010
The only time I've ever had an emotional response to something I did in a game was early on in WoW when I was leveling my Shaman in the Barrens and there was this herd of NPC gaselles or something galloping around and I thought "I shall kill these gaselles to level my skinning" and I did, but then I was all like "shit, I just killed a happy family of gaselles" and I felt bad about that.
I have to get really into the story of a game in order to have an emotional response; it's hard for me to connect what my character does to my own actions. So if I have an emotional response, it means the game is damn well written.
Obviously this means I am an emotionless psychopath who will soak up the brutality of games and eventually stop vicariously living the violence and start visiting that violence on the world around me.
[This post brought to you by Gamers For Jack Thompson]
I just don't have an emotional reaction to events that I make happen in games. So I could have my KotOR character do the most dramatic stuff in the galaxy, but since I was doing it, it doesn't affect me.
Nobody is demanding or asking you to, either.
But the implication that it's wrong to, to any degree, is the utmost of silly goosery.
Posts
So I just read the world building blog that Daniel Erickson did, and I have to say that this game is a cruel mistress. At times I feel concerned that this game will be purely about the story. That it's just 8 single player games where you'll see other real people walking around, but it's not that important. Other times, these previews make me forget about caring.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
A story only MMO will suck, because story isn't truly immersive until you can connect the reason why your shooting that Jedi in the head with the actual act of doing so, rendering in good graphics and made possible with good gameplay and combat mechanics. When I go out to kick some ass, I don't want to just know why, and have that why explained to me with fancy cutscenes and voice acting, I also want to kick some ass.
This game really does have moments where it feels like it'll be too heavy on the storytelling, and other times it kicks you in the face through the screen and says "You know you want to subscribe to this".
Some people, myself included, get a sense of epic joy when we go about killing mans after we've been exposed to a storyline that shows us the reasons those mans must be killed. Like, if your a Jedi, and some drug running smugglers are ruining a struggling colony's youth, you'll be talking to fully voice acted people decrying the situation wanting an end to it. And you can oblige.
And, even better, if your like a Sith or Imperial agent sent to assasinate a rogue Imperial Moff and you go in there with an NPC Sith to do the deed only to discover that the Moff is planning a kind of coup on your Imperial boss, and your NPC helper is actually a double agent. He proceeds to stab you in the back and you proceed to kill them both in some grisly manner deserving of traitors.
And those are just two, off the top of my head ideas. Bioware are the definition of good story, so there's no telling what crazy awesome stuff they can create with the Star Wars lore at their disposal.
I'm just fine with killing shit just for the sake of it, but I sometimes want more.
Some makeup. Just less.
Everything you said plus the ability to wear Reven's faceplate. That's what I want to see. Schemes so convoluted and diabolical that even the machinations of the Emperor will pale in comparison.
And every few months, when he starts to turn traitorous, you can space him and get a new one! Maybe a hot Twi'lek chick this time!
Darth Talon comes to mind. :winky:
Wait, do you mean laughable as in "So terrible and evil that you laugh rather than taking that option"?
Because some of the shit you could do was monstrous. If anything, my issue with the dark side paths in KOTOR were that I don't think Palpatine or Vader were constantly, casually evil to random individual strangers for a few credits or because they were having a bad day. Sure, they would gladly blow up an entire planet to make a point, but can you imagine Palpatine crossing his lawn just to force choke a random person for no reason? Not very likely. Vader executed people who failed, but did we ever see him kill people for shits and giggles (ignoring the prequels, because they don't exist)? But in KOTOR you frequently had opportunities to be "dark" that simply consisted of being greedy, sadistic, and petty; none of which makes you an epic villain, it just makes you an asshole.
There's definitely poorly conceived dark side point moments, where someone is like "Hey can you help me with this thing?" and there's an option that is literally, "No I think I'll kill you instead." It makes playing a Darkside character unrewarding. And I mean that from a narrative perspective.
But then they have moments like a guy asks you to save his wife from being another guy's dancing whore, and you can buy the wife and then make her dance for you instead rather than return her to her man (at which point she leaves anyway, for the light side points). That's an acceptable subtle evil deed. Nobody dies.
They're capable of evil moments that are of actual benefit or make sense from a narrative perspective. I just hope that TOR has a stronger presence of that instead of killing people who brush shoulders with you on the sidewalk.
Now, that part actually offended my sensibilities enough that I didn't complete the game as a dark side character, but then I am a huge pussy. But I did appreciate the legitimacy of it.
BUT. But it is indeed appropriately evil. That's the kind of Dark Side Points I want. When Kreia gets mad at you in KotOR 2 for random murder, she's absolutely right about it. I always imagine her to be angry with the game's design in that manner.
The voice acting in the particular scene I spoilered was disturbing. I couldn't continue my game after that.
Even that can work too if done right. Being able to mind trick the two thugs into walking off the ledge turned what was in narrative a random encounter into something memorable. Being able to casually kill things with words adds something special.
Steam Profile
3DS: 3454-0268-5595 Battle.net: SteelAngel#1772
I mean come on. It's hilarious.
I can't even wrap my mind around this. How do you not continue playing the game?
I had already beaten the game as a light side character twice (once male, once female) and that scene is literally, 1-1.5 hours of gameplay away from the ending. Probably less than an hour if you've built a solid combat monster (easy by endgame to do so).
Okay....and? The end game is still different for Dark Side than Light Side. So why wouldn't you want to see?
I mean, you were playing Dark Side for a reason. You were doing bad shit for all of the game and then OH NO, THIS IS TOO CRUEL.
I hate being evil though. I only played a dark side character because a friend insisted that I just had to because it was awesome. So I did every evil thing you can do and finally reached my overload point. Later I was chatting with the same friend and told him about it. He just laughed at me and said that there was no need to choose every possible dark side option over the course of the game. He was right of course, but I didn't know any better.
If I go through a game like that and make the choices I prefer to, I end up playing a paladin every single time.
-edit-
also, the third tier force lightning power trivialized combat and probably played a role in spoiling my enjoyment of that run through.
It would be fun if your little cast of npc's is well written enough that you don't want to hurt them , but if I have to stab my npc's in the face until stops being funny to get trained in the next level of force lightning, than there's just no other way for that to end.
Like Jeepguy I also tend to play good guys, with minor vices like stealing. I find videos of Renegade ME runs hilarious, but couldn't actually play through the game like that simply because I wouldn't want to play a character that acts like that.
It's just a book.
It's just a show.
It's just a song.
It's just a movie.
It's just a story.
It's just a parade.
It's just a funeral.
It's just a wedding.
It's just a newborn baby.
It's just a promotion.
It's just a (x).
Guess what, different events and mediums (I was going to stop at entertainment but decided to carry on) have various effects on people.
FUCKIN' EMOTIONS
HOW DO THEY WORK
Need to re-iterate that, it's important when explaining emotional investment to people.
Oh well since you asked they work via
Thank you for saying this for me. Yes, I have trouble being a really bad person in a video game; horror films, end of the world disaster films and some war films make me feel somewhat ill and I always cry when i watch the end of Field of Dreams.
I feel slightly sorry for people who don't have an emotional response to any of the various forms of entertainment we are privileged to have in modern times. I blame autism.
I picked up the game again when I got the Star Wars Best of PC pack a couple years ago, and I tried to do the dark side thing again... but it didn't feel right. And lo and behold, the light side part of the game sings to me. It actually feels rewarding. I think in growing up I've lost attachment with the whole "oh man the bad guys are cool" thing.
I'm autistic and I have emotions and become emotionally invested in games I play and things I watch/do. I simply experience emotions in a different, less outwardly apparent way. And that's just my indiviudal experience. The only universally emotionless people on Earth are psychopathics who don't have things like empathy and can't be emotionally invested in anything because they have an uncounscious fear that they will be somehow harmed by doing so, among other things.
I'm not saying everyone here who doesn't like to RP is a pychopath, thats silly. But saying that the majority of people who watch movies, listen to music, play games, etc, don't become emotionally invested in that media they are watching/participating in, even if it's not to the degree of tears or RPing the content, is even sillier. Nearly everyone has emotions they experience to differing degrees when confronted with things in life. Emotions are by defintion about attachment to that emotion and what it represents, like a friend or a favorite movie or a particular memory.
And yet people poop on you for saying you had an emotional reaction to doing something abominable in a video game. :?
If I react to mass murder in a shooter game with sadness and anger at the perpetrators, I do not deserve poop.
If I react to the murders with glee and sadistic enjoyment, or if I ignore the horridness of the situation with political justifications of some kind in the lore, I deserve poop. Unless I'm only pretending to be that way as a RPer. Then I just deserve lore poop.
This goes into the area of how seriously you take your role in the game, what role your actually taking, and how far you let the game take you emotionally. Becoming emotionally obsessed with a game is bad, emotional investment is good. Pretending to be a sadistic asshole who enjoys mass murder in the game is different and has more of a fun factor to it then actually getting some sick kicks out of watching a kid get his head blown off. Not that very many games even do that.
People have varying and usually healthy degrees to which they become a part of the media they watch especially with video games where you become involved in how it plays out. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, unless you let it go to far and influence your life outside the game in detrimental ways. RPers don't deserve poop, and neither do people who become invested in media emotionally. It's only those who don't know the line and cross it to a point where they get covered with real poop.
EDIT: Getting back on track, I'm not sure if this has been posted but there's a new page on the SWTOR site detailing how the Advanced Class system will be implemented and it looks remiscent of WoW's talent system, at a glance. http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes
I approve.
SC2: XxKhrushchev.539
But then take a game like Max Payne 2 or Shadow of the Colossus. Sure, I'm doing these things, but none of it is my choice. And the real story elements tend to happen in cutscenes, out of my control. The creators are still telling me a story (or in the case of MP2, guiding me through a story) instead of asking me to create it and own it. If a game tells me a good story, then it's likely I'll get into it and hang onto those characters.
Obviously this means I am an emotionless psychopath who will soak up the brutality of games and eventually stop vicariously living the violence and start visiting that violence on the world around me.
[This post brought to you by Gamers For Jack Thompson]
I put the controller down for weeks because I was so upset.
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
Nobody is demanding or asking you to, either.
But the implication that it's wrong to, to any degree, is the utmost of silly goosery.