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Getting a dog, dawgs
Canada_jezus
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hello,
So in the near future my family is buying a small house/ large apartment, lack of faith in the banks and low interest rates and whatnot. I'll be living there until and possibly beyond my sister starts college. In any case, the most important aspect in all of this is, i can finally get a dog.
I have some experience with dogs, I've babysat a friends Old English sheepdog/Maltese mix for the past four weekends, in a small small apartment without any real problems. I'll be getting a pound dog, because its the right thing to do. I don't have any children but i do have two small guinea pigs that I'd like to keep near the living room.
So basically since i can't know in advance what kind of dogs there'll be, i'd like your advice on dogs that would fit these criteria and how to prepare for having a dog. Also does getting two at once makes sense? for company seeing as i live alone.
-Decent with kids
-Preferably not deadset on killing the guinea pigs.
-Likes to play around and be cuddled and whatnot
-Decent with other dogs
-Okayish with strangers
Train-ability isn't a big deal at all, as long as i can teach it to sit, leave someting alone and come when i call it. That's enough. Also grooming can be as intense, seeing as i enjoy grooming dogs for some reason. Being okay with spending time alone would be a plus, but not really needed. As for walks and such, as long as its not a really high energy dog like a lab or a beagle i'll be fine i think.
Anyway, dogs that i understand would do fine with what i've listed; please please correct me if i'm wrong
-Pugs
-Bulldogs all varieties
-Bullmastif
-Great dane
-Boston terrier
-Corgi
-Miniature bull terrier? (this might be too much dog to handle for a first time owner)
-Italian Greyhound?
-Regular greyhound
-A whippet
So in the near future my family is buying a small house/ large apartment, lack of faith in the banks and low interest rates and whatnot. I'll be living there until and possibly beyond my sister starts college. In any case, the most important aspect in all of this is, i can finally get a dog.
I have some experience with dogs, I've babysat a friends Old English sheepdog/Maltese mix for the past four weekends, in a small small apartment without any real problems. I'll be getting a pound dog, because its the right thing to do. I don't have any children but i do have two small guinea pigs that I'd like to keep near the living room.
So basically since i can't know in advance what kind of dogs there'll be, i'd like your advice on dogs that would fit these criteria and how to prepare for having a dog. Also does getting two at once makes sense? for company seeing as i live alone.
-Decent with kids
-Preferably not deadset on killing the guinea pigs.
-Likes to play around and be cuddled and whatnot
-Decent with other dogs
-Okayish with strangers
Train-ability isn't a big deal at all, as long as i can teach it to sit, leave someting alone and come when i call it. That's enough. Also grooming can be as intense, seeing as i enjoy grooming dogs for some reason. Being okay with spending time alone would be a plus, but not really needed. As for walks and such, as long as its not a really high energy dog like a lab or a beagle i'll be fine i think.
Anyway, dogs that i understand would do fine with what i've listed; please please correct me if i'm wrong
-Pugs
-Bulldogs all varieties
-Bullmastif
-Great dane
-Boston terrier
-Corgi
-Miniature bull terrier? (this might be too much dog to handle for a first time owner)
-Italian Greyhound?
-Regular greyhound
-A whippet
Canada_jezus on
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I imagine so long as you get it pretty young the guinea pigs wouldn't be a problem. Our dog grew up around cats and mice and hamsters and whatnot and he never did much more than sniff or lick them. Nothing aggressive.
I think the most important thing is to not get a dog that's overly aggressive. I believe you can see these traits in puppies as well. Look up some stuff on choosing a puppy online and they tell you how to find a dog somewhere in the middle of cowardly/aggressive.
Greyhounds and Great Danes, on the other hand, were built to run, so they aren't going to be as concerned with rodents, but they are also going to be what you'd consider high energy.
However, great Danes are HUGE. Like, if a lab is large, he's going to be an XXL. And they get stuck in narrow spaces, and have to be guided out. Which is funny, but maybe not so great for an apartment or small house.
Ofcourse if i get a smaller dog and keep the guinea cage up high that'd solve that, partially anyway. If i can teach it not to jump all over the place.
Also, I've read the same as you, Greyhounds do tend to be lazy. They're also sight hounds and can jump high. If you don't want them jumping the fence the chase a leaf halfway down the block you'll need a six foot fence around your yard. Or you never let them out without being leashed.
And my buddy had a Dane he rescued. Biggest damn lap dog ever. All the big lump did was to be a big lump wherever he could get petted. He also had the tail of death that could leave bruises and welts when he was too happy and could break lots of knick knacks in a single swish.
Please also be aware that a lot of pounds AND rescues require everyone living in the house to sign off on getting the animal, not just you. Call your shelter of choice to get the rules before you go.
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Things to look out for:
- pulling the heartstrings
- mislabeling and poor descriptions
- lack description about the dogs behavior and current health status
If you see these types of issues consistently in their listings, it might be worth it to avoid adopting from that rescue/shelter. They should be very upfront with the appropriate information.
In addition, some rescue organizations will want you to fill out an application before selecting a dog. Don't let this deter you. Some applications can be pretty lengthy and ask you some important questions that you should think about. It might be worthwhile to find a fairly thorough app now, and fill it out simply for yourself to save you some time down the road.
Tip: A superb vet reference will net you significant brownie points on your application.
How do you prepare?
I don't know if there's an easy answer to this. We recently adopted, but we have an existing dog, and others before her, so we had some practice. Neither of us had raised a puppy, though. We read up on training guides (link). We reviewed a lot of listings, I narrowed down my acceptable rescues to adopt from, and were even declined our first application. The declination was disappointing, but it got me to reflect on why they would have declined me, and I did some more research on training in case I answered the related questions wrong. Some rescues will be more selective for adopting puppies than they are for adopting adults.
to be continued...
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Before you start applying for a dog, you should think about the costs of owning a dog. Consider supplies you are going to need and what they will cost. Crate, food, treats/rewards, feeding supplies, grooming supplies, training supplies, cleaning supplies, towels and rags, toys, blankets, beds, baby gates, and any thing else you can think of. You will also want to get your dog in for an initial vet check up and possibly vaccinations. Some rescues will recommend, or even require, a training class.
Then there are the ongoing costs. Vet visits, food, toys, grooming, etc. And the unforeseen costs. What happens when your dog needs an emergency vet visit? You'll want to have a clear idea of the costs involved. From there, you can budget and adjust accordingly.
Next, consider the sacrifices you are going to have to make. You are committing to a companion for upwards of 20 years. There are numerous responsibilities involved which will require you to make sacrifices. A well balanced dog will need exercise outside of the home environment, socialization, and training and engagement. Think of how the dog will be cared for if you travel or simply can't get home in the event of an emergency.
Read up on training a dog. Even with an adult, you will likely have to go through housetraining. It happens when a dog has been through a stressful situation, whether it was rough shelter experience, or simply a transition between families and homes. Sites that I used are here and here. The second was used specifically for the crate training, but I've used others from there with success.
Realistically, you won't be 100% prepared. You'll adapt as you go.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
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You might consider going through a rescue rather than a shelter. That way the dog will be living in someone's home and you will have a much better idea of their personality then while they are in a shelter. You may even be able to find a foster home that has small animals in the home and already knows how the dog does with them. A good rescue will also work with you and provide a lot more support than a shelter and their primary concern will be making sure that the dog is a good fit for your home longterm rather than just getting dogs out of the shelter asap.
I have adopted one dog from a shelter and one from a rescue and when it comes time to get another dog I will definitely go through a rescue. You have a lot of personality requirements and it takes months for a dog's "real" personality to emerge after being in a shelter for any length of time at all.
I went to the pound looking for a female mutt and came home with a male (90% sure) purebred. And he is perfect for our life.
But regarding regular greyhounds and probably whippets, if you intend to keep your guinea pigs caged while the dog is around you probably won't have a problem. It's the movement of small animals (running, scurrying) that triggers them.
They're both really upfront about what the dogs went through and if they hate all other pets and whatnot. Thanks especially for all the links Nailbunny, those really are the kinds of questions you want to be able to answer. Also no Sighthounds, gotcha. The guinea pigs do tend to run around and squirm shitloads.
My budget can support regular vet trips and even heavy duty surgery as long as its not every other month. My darling guinea pigs needed five vet visits last month.
The guinea pigs do have a huge-ass cage so they'll mostly be in there.
The general consensus seems to be avoid terriers and sight hounds, ask the staff and look for an individual rather than a breed. I think that kind of covers everything? Thanks again everyone.
edit: Oh one thing, i will hopefully find work soon. So, do i need two doggies so they can keep each other company? edit edit: Yes the budget can support this, i won't get two animals if the space is insufficient either. But it should be.
They're small, cute. Most like to cuddle. Like, just sit on your lap like a cat.
Best of all, they're quiet. And don't require huge amounts of physical play.
Not sure how they'd be with other small mammals, but they one I know was fine with very small kittens.
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It can depend on the dog you get. If you want two, maybe look for two that are already a pair, or get along extremely well. We have two, but really, one of them would much rather be an only dog. The other was a litter of at least 4 and was very attached to his mates, so I think it was good for him to come into a home with an existing dog.
Some rescues will recommend that you pair a male and female. There are reasons for this, but I don't feel I know enough about the reasoning to elaborate on. Its not an absolute rule, but I think you may want to at least avoid pairing two males.
Also, Kistra provided me the "Levels" training site link, so she can share those thanks.
NintendoID: Nailbunny 3DS: 3909-8796-4685
I've had my two Welsh Corgis (GREAT dogs, incredibly smart and sweet, but they shed like crazy) for about a year now and I couldn't be happier with them. I didn't do a shelter, but instead opted to get a brother and sister from a local breeder so that they would have a littermate to live with. If I could do it over again I would have gotten one and then bought another about this time, when the first was fully trained and could act as a guide for the new puppy's behavior. Training a dog around other trained dogs is much easier from what I hear.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
I've always heard intra-bitch aggression as the rationale for male-female pairings being the easiest to own.
The way I am using the words:
shelter/pound: building with lots of dogs in small fenced in areas
rescue: group of people that work together to rehome dogs, generally get the dogs from a shelter and foster them in their homes until new homes are found
Where I live dogs stay in a pound for a maximum of 72 hours. So they really can't tell you much of anything about the dog's personality. And if the dog was found as a stray you have a one or two hour window to adopt a dog before a rescue comes to pick it up. Things might work very differently in Belgium, it sounds like they have the dogs longer in shelters so they actually know something about the dogs.
You shouldn't let your dogs share the bed, unless you want to ignore maintaining dominance.
A dog that doesn't have to stress about dominance is MUCH happier (sourced from just about every dog training book).
**EDIT**
Also, if you're in an apartment, or smallish place, you should steer away from energetic breeds, unless you want to spend an hour a day tiring your dog out. Energetic breed + lack of exercise = Destructo the Wonder Dog.
Where a dog sleeps has nothing to do with dominance. Any organism is happier when it doesn't have to stress about something... that is kind of the definition of the word. And I challenge you to find the word dominance in any training book on my shelves :P
Dominance has a lot of negative connotations in dog training. Mostly because of the nonsensical "information" touted by some trainers like never let a dog sleep in your bed or never let a dog walk through a doorway before you or never let a dog have dinner before you do. A much better way to think about your relationship with your dog is in terms of leadership. A good leader doesn't need to do everything themselves, they know when to delegate and they know what decisions are too small to need to micromanage. At the same time, everyone on the team is going to look to the leader to make the big decisions. There are lots of people in the world that have very good reasons for needing to ask their dog to go through doors first and that does not make those dogs dominant.
And the snoring is related to being brachycephalic rather than small. Bulldogs have the same issue and chihuahuas do not.
Either way, not here to weenie wag, or get jailed for arguing over training methods.
Exercise your dog(s)! I'm sure we can agree on that at least.
I would also put up a newfoundland as a suggestion. They are pretty lazy so they do fine in a small place, they require quite a bit of grooming and look great when you put the effort in. They have pretty much the best temperament of any breed...and they are a whole lot of fun. The biggest issue is definitely drooling, but that mostly occurs when they get pretty hot and excited. So if you are in a cooler climate it's not as big an issue.
Anyways, I made a similar post on this forum and after doing a ton of research I ended up getting a Newfoundland. He is totally awesome and turned out to be the perfect dog for me.
Here is a link to that post by the way, it may have some more good information in it.
Take the test.
The real issue was that the specific piece of advice you offered (don't let your dog sleep on your bed) is complete and utter nonsense. And there is a big difference between leadership and dominance when dominance centered trainers do things like swing dogs around above their head on prong collars. I'm also not sure where you think I would take this fight if you wanted to continue, because I have had several prolonged arguments on here about dog training methods and noone involved was ever jailed.
And I'm going to say again, if you are getting an adult, I would pay a lot more attention to the individual than the breed. I would never recommend a BC puppy for an apartment, but there are individual dogs out there that don't follow the breed standards, there are lazy BCs and hyper newfies.
Hmm. I took this test, selected low for noise and low for activity and Shih Tzu was still up there. Anyone who has had one will tell you they are barky and need a good amount of activity.
I agree with the post above - if you are getting an adult, the individual tendencies outweigh the breed.
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Who would even consider this method of training? That doesn't sound like a reputable trainer, dominance-centered or not. You can establish dominance in a dog/owner relationship without resorting to physical violence and abuse. It seems like you have something against the idea of 'dominance' as opposed to 'leadership', and the pre-conceived notion that to be dominant is a horrible thing.
Dogs are pack animals, the alpha leads by maintaining a dominant position in the pack structure yes? The others are free to frolic (sp?), run around and generally have a good time as long as they know when to be good followers?
An alpha doesn't need to be mauling the rest of the pack all the time so they know who's boss.
I've had this dog related debate with a few others to know where you're coming from, and this is usually where I agree to disagree and part ways. Train your dogs how you want.
OP: Pick up a few books, find out what suits your style, try it on your dog. Oh, and have it spayed/neutered unless you have the time, energy and room to raise a litter of pups (learned this the hard way).
Exercise your dog, spend time with it, and try to get a dog that matches your energy level. If you're outdoorsy, get a high spirited dog. If you're more sedentary, find a breed that likes to putter around the house. I would avoid toy-sized dogs, but that's a personal preference. I've just had better experiences with medium to large sized breeds.
The studies that showed all that stuff were done in yellowstone during a repopulation push and the packs were all oversized packs of adolescent male wolves. If you put 60 14-17 year old guys in a gym how accurate of a sense of nuclear family life do you think researchers would get from studying them?
More recent research done on actual dog packs in more natural sized packs show that there is actually a very fluid pack dynamic with different dogs having different skill sets and leading the pack for different things. And there is no evidence of dogs being motivated to become the alpha dog: http://www.journalvetbehavior.com/article/S1558-7878%2808%2900115-9
I would run far far away from any trainer or book that thinks dominance is a concept that is relevant to dog training. And yes, there really are "trainers" that do horrible things in the name of dominance: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/36
I had the singular choice of selecting a bullmastiff.
http://www.squidoo.com/dogdominancebehavior
http://www.professorshouse.com/pets/dogs/dominant-behavior-in-dogs.aspx
It's almost like we're chasing our tails here... (see what I did there?)
My dad's (research/methods) bigger than your dad (research/methods) arguements go nowhere.
Outskies!
OP: Good luck finding a dog, hope it's a daily source of enjoyment for you (and you for it)!
Riiight, except that I cited actual scientific studies... you linked to random people's blogs.
If you were citing actual scientific studies back to me and there simply was still uncertainty and different results coming back within the field I would totally agree with you. But I challenge you to find one single peer reviewed study published in the last 10 years that supports the idea that dogs are motivated by dominance.
Wow.... I should know better, but I read those, and, just wow.
The last one had a "helpful" list of things to do to establish dominance:
* Recognize one of your dog’s favorite places. This could be his bed or a favorite chair etc…Stand in that place for a couple of minutes many times during the week.
* Do not pet your dominant dog unless he has done something, such as obeying your command, to earn your attention.
* Eat before you feed your dog, and make sure that the dog sees that you are eating first.
* Do not allow your dog on the furniture without permission. Also, the dog should get off of the furniture on command. If he doesn’t, pull the dog off, but do not use unnecessary roughness.
Fuck, get yourself an Aibo. Everyone will be happier and dogs all over the world will thank you.
My parents have two and I've only heard them bark once. Also they get along fine with two short walks a day.
Space may be sufficient, but what about time? How many hours per day would it/they be left alone?