Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 19 & 20

Doctor Doom

Bracket 19



Ultron

Powers: * Superhuman strength, speed and durability
* Flight
* Energy blasts
* Force fields generation
* Hypnosis
* Genius-level intellect


VS.



Mist

Powers: Can turn into mist, giving the effect of intangibility. The mist is also a tranquilizing agent. Skilled in the use of firearms.

Environment: Mount Everest

Bracket 20



Xorn

Powers: Healing powers, Magnetism and gravity manipulation

Vs.



Despero

Powers: Telepathy, Hypnotism, Psychokinesis, Teleportation, Superhuman strength and endurance, Genius-level intelligence

Environment: Warworld. No direct mind control is allowed.

tombomb666

Mist is fucked.

Peeps Chicken

Unless Mist pushes Ultron off freaking Everest, Mist is a goner. Even if Ultron tumbles off of Everest, I'm not sure that stops him unless it counts as a ring out.

Crayon

Ummmm mist can go intangible and fuck up Ultrons internal parts which aren't adamantium. So I fail to see why Mist is a goner.

Furu

Crayon wrote:

Ummmm mist can go intangible and fuck up Ultrons internal parts which aren't adamantium. So I fail to see why Mist is a goner.

Force Field.

robosagogo

Yeah, she's effectively intangible. A super-intelligent robot would probably figure out a way to disperse her while she's intangible.

And I don't see how she could mess up his internals. She can't go solid while she's inside him, and I doubt a negligible amount of moisture will do any harm. If she shorted him out, somehow, wouldn't it harm her too anyway?

Septus

robosagogo wrote:

Yeah, she's effectively intangible. A super-intelligent robot would probably figure out a way to disperse her while she's intangible.

And I don't see how she could mess up his internals. She can't go solid while she's inside him, and I doubt a negligible amount of moisture will do any harm. If she shorted him out, somehow, wouldn't it harm her too anyway?

Shadowcat was intangible, Mist is quite far from intangibility. I think any sort of freezing, or super-heating effect would screw her over, as well as any disintegration. I don't know if he has any of those specific weapons or not, but I'm sure his arsenal is not fully documented in the wiki.

Furu

Also goddamn I want to see Ultron vs Despero.

The Muffin Man

Furu wrote:

Also goddamn I want to see Ultron vs Despero.

That's right up there with Thor vs Superman vs Wonder Woman in the hero tourney.

GoodCitizen

Ultron(duh) and, um, Despero?

Not sure on that last fight, but I really hate what has been done with xorn, so it'd probably be good if he'd just dissapear.... for good. Bye xorn.

RonnieWooWoo!

Anybody with some DC experience care to elaborate on how mobile Despero is? Or is this going to turn into another "Xorn flys a couple hundred feet up and drops heavy/sharp metal things on his opponent" fight?

Mai-Kero

RonnieWooWoo! wrote:

Anybody with some DC experience care to elaborate on how mobile Despero is? Or is this going to turn into another "Xorn flys a couple hundred feet up and drops heavy/sharp metal things on his opponent" fight?

Despero is effectively superboy prime with mind control powers.

GABBO GABBO GABBO

I call bullshit on Xorn having "healing powers."
He was just removing nanites from people's blood and telling them that they were healed.

Furu

Mai-Kero wrote:

RonnieWooWoo! wrote:

Anybody with some DC experience care to elaborate on how mobile Despero is? Or is this going to turn into another "Xorn flys a couple hundred feet up and drops heavy/sharp metal things on his opponent" fight?

Despero is effectively superboy prime with mind control powers.

Oh, hey, what? No, he's not that bad.

As for how mobile he is, yeah, flying isn't going to help Xorn much here when Despero can just psychically grab him and slam him into the ground.

CyberJackal

Peeps Chicken wrote:

Unless Mist pushes Ultron off freaking Everest, Mist is a goner. Even if Ultron tumbles off of Everest, I'm not sure that stops him unless it counts as a ring out.

Not to mention he'd have to forget that he can fly.

werehippy

Furu wrote:

Mai-Kero wrote:

RonnieWooWoo! wrote:

Anybody with some DC experience care to elaborate on how mobile Despero is? Or is this going to turn into another "Xorn flys a couple hundred feet up and drops heavy/sharp metal things on his opponent" fight?

Despero is effectively superboy prime with mind control powers.

Oh, hey, what? No, he's not that bad.

As for how mobile he is, yeah, flying isn't going to help Xorn much here when Despero can just psychically grab him and slam him into the ground.

I think Xorn might have this one in the bag. Is there any more advantageous place for the fight that a big, empty metal weapon/world?

It doesn't matter how strong or smart you are, when you're fighting someone that controls metal and the only thing around is metal, you're in trouble.

Mai-Kero

werehippy wrote:

Furu wrote:

Mai-Kero wrote:

RonnieWooWoo! wrote:

Anybody with some DC experience care to elaborate on how mobile Despero is? Or is this going to turn into another "Xorn flys a couple hundred feet up and drops heavy/sharp metal things on his opponent" fight?

Despero is effectively superboy prime with mind control powers.

Oh, hey, what? No, he's not that bad.

As for how mobile he is, yeah, flying isn't going to help Xorn much here when Despero can just psychically grab him and slam him into the ground.

I think Xorn might have this one in the bag. Is there any more advantageous place for the fight that a big, empty metal weapon/world?

It doesn't matter how strong or smart you are, when you're fighting someone that controls metal and the only thing around is metal, you're in trouble.

Unless you're stronger than Superman.

Conditional_Axe

Despero/Xorn is a great card, but I think Despero can win.

Ultron is a no-brainer.

Spectre-x

Despero is about as strong and durable as Superman, and he has psychic powers that exceed those of the Martian Manhunter.

He can also teleport himself and other shit.

And shoot mind bullets.

Xorn is basically fucked.

I mean, no matter how much metal there is on a planet, if they guy you're throwing it at is about five thousand times more durable than the metal, you might as well be using a giant leafblower to blow leaves at him.

And then there's the whole mind bullet head explodo thing the other guy has.

DasUberEdward

Well Mist is more or less screwed. Everest is a bit chilly and all she would be able to do to protect herself is turn into mist. Which means she would not beable to damage ultron in anyway giving him all the time in the world to figure out a way to harm her. Her only possible attack would be to become tangible inside of him and remove some major component at the expense of her own body of course. Then again, I doubt Ultron can be dispatched so easily.

So, Ultron takes a nap and waits for Mist to freeze to death.

Xorn could more or less drown Despero in metal or pull the old blood iron trick. I don't think he should be written off so quickly.

Malkor

Really? About 5000x stronger?

Spectre-x

The blood iron trick only works if the other guy isn't too invulnerable for that to work, like in Omerta's case. Magneto tried to pull his blood out, but the guy was invulnerable and it didn't work. Despero isn't completely invulnerable, but Superman-level invulnerability should do it, and luckily for Despero he is at that level of invulnerability.

He also has massively powerful psychic powers, so while Xorn tries the blood iron trick, Despero could detach Xorn's head psychokinetically.

So that wouldn't really be a very good strategy to take for Xorn.

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Spectre-x

Malkor wrote:

Really? About 5000x stronger?

Well, it's not a scientific guess, but Despero and Superman and the like are pretty much as durable as adamantium.

DasUberEdward

Spectre-x wrote:

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Well yes but would it be possible for Xorn to more or less have the metal constitute itself inside of Despero's lungs? If so Despero wouldn't be able to teleport and leave his lungs behind.

Caveman Paws

I was one of the few, the proud, the geeky that begged for Magneto to be allowed into this new tourny, and thus Xorn was thrust upon an unsuspecting internet forum!

For this blight upon our cyber lands I vote for Despero to clean Xorn's horribley written clock and restore peace and order to the galaxy, much to our collective voyeuristic joy!

Ultron and Despero advance, and advance hard!

Spectre-x

DasUberEdward wrote:

Spectre-x wrote:

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Well yes but would it be possible for Xorn to more or less have the metal constitute itself inside of Despero's lungs? If so Despero wouldn't be able to teleport and leave his lungs behind.

To do that he'd have to be able to force it into Despero's mouth or nose and past his throat, which is also superhumanly strong and durable. And also psychokinetic barriers.

And that still allows Despero to blow up Xorn's head remotely before he dies himself.

Fiaryn

Wouldn't Mist be blown off Mount Everest by the wind if she tried to turn into Mist form?

Jolly-Roger

does Xorn's helmet have the anti psychic powers that Magneto's did?

Slagmire

Jolly-Roger wrote:

does Xorn's helmet have the anti psychic powers that Magneto's did?

Well, Despero isn't allowed to use his mental powers directly against him in this fight, so it's a moot point.

Malkor

He had at least enough to fool Cerebro, and all of the telepaths in the mansion including Jean Gray and Professor X.

Fiaryn

Slagmire wrote:

Jolly-Roger wrote:

does Xorn's helmet have the anti psychic powers that Magneto's did?

Well, Despero isn't allowed to use his mental powers directly against him in this fight, so it's a moot point.

Important distinction: The rules say no direct -mind control-. Very different from being able to use the range of psychic powers Despero has other than mind control directly against Xorn.

The Muffin Man

DasUberEdward wrote:

Spectre-x wrote:

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Well yes but would it be possible for Xorn to more or less have the metal constitute itself inside of Despero's lungs? If so Despero wouldn't be able to teleport and leave his lungs behind.

He could also use the iron to stop Despero's blood flow without revealing himself, so Despero's heart can't beat anymore.


I just want Despero to lose for the same reasons I wanted Martian Manhunter to lose. The whole "Guys he's like, stronger than Superman AND an amazingly powerful psychic!" sounds like a 10 year old made their own superhero. Or villain in this case.

Conditional_Axe

The Muffin Man wrote:

DasUberEdward wrote:

Spectre-x wrote:

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Well yes but would it be possible for Xorn to more or less have the metal constitute itself inside of Despero's lungs? If so Despero wouldn't be able to teleport and leave his lungs behind.

He could also use the iron to stop Despero's blood flow without revealing himself, so Despero's heart can't beat anymore.


I just want Despero to lose for the same reasons I wanted Martian Manhunter to lose. The whole "Guys he's like, stronger than Superman AND an amazingly powerful psychic!" sounds like a 10 year old made their own superhero. Or villain in this case.

Speaking of the godlike, unstoppable J'onn J'onnz,

Spectre-x

The Muffin Man wrote:

DasUberEdward wrote:

Spectre-x wrote:

And drowining him in iron would also work a whole lot better if Despero weren't able to just teleport out of that big mountain of iron and proceed to tear Xorn limb from limb.

Well yes but would it be possible for Xorn to more or less have the metal constitute itself inside of Despero's lungs? If so Despero wouldn't be able to teleport and leave his lungs behind.

He could also use the iron to stop Despero's blood flow without revealing himself, so Despero's heart can't beat anymore.


I just want Despero to lose for the same reasons I wanted Martian Manhunter to lose. The whole "Guys he's like, stronger than Superman AND an amazingly powerful psychic!" sounds like a 10 year old made their own superhero. Or villain in this case.

Xorn should lose by the same logic. As should Loki, and Mandarin, and Apocalypse, and Ultron, and especially Doom.

Don't be such a lame party-pooper, Muffin Man.

And as was the case with Superman and Captain Marvel, Despero's heart muscles are so strong that Xorn wouldn't really be able to stop his blood from flowing.

DasUberEdward

Xorn would not have to force anything into Despero given the metalic properties of the body. It's already there to be manipulated. It's just a matter of how quickly could Xorn cause enough manipulation to kill or hinder Despero (for example: to have an affect on the brain)

Chances are though, Desparo is going to take this one or it'd be some sort of silly draw. After all, he may be super powerful but he can't control his internal organs.

Spectre-x

DasUberEdward wrote:

Xorn would not have to force anything into Despero given the metalic properties of the body. It's already there to be manipulated. It's just a matter of how quickly could Xorn cause enough manipulation to kill or hinder Despero (for example: to have an affect on the brain)

Chances are though, Desparo is going to take this one or it'd be some sort of silly draw. After all, he may be super powerful but he can't control his internal organs.

Neither can Xorn because Despero's organs are just as durable as the rest of him, meaning that they can withstand nuclear explosions. (not contain them, but if Despero had a hole in him, his organs would remain intact.)

Mai-Kero

I never get how powerful nukes are in the world of comics.

We've seen them used what, twice in DC? DKR2 and Kingdom Come.

I mean, if anyone could survive a nuke, I thought it'd be Captain Marvel.

Jolly-Roger

Fiaryn wrote:

Slagmire wrote:

Jolly-Roger wrote:

does Xorn's helmet have the anti psychic powers that Magneto's did?

Well, Despero isn't allowed to use his mental powers directly against him in this fight, so it's a moot point.

Important distinction: The rules say no direct -mind control-. Very different from being able to use the range of psychic powers Despero has other than mind control directly against Xorn.

Thats what i meant, he may not be able to control his mind, but he could read his thoughts to use a kind of precognition.

DasUberEdward

Well then, no contest. Despero wins.

Mai-Kero

Theory: Xorn creates vibranium Justice League replicas.

Or adamantium. It's not like other metals!

Actually, can vibranium even be controlled by magnetokinisis?

Judas

I'm going with Ultron (duh) and Despero for this fight.

Just out of curiosity for those of you more familiar with the DC side of comics, how the hell does anyone actually beat Despero? I mean, forget about even defeating him, how do you even make him go away?

Super strength, super mental abilities, and Superman level invulnerability? That sounds unbalanced as fuck.