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Roman Polanski: he made a thriller

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    AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Uhm, what do the feelings of the victim have to do with the law? Isn't the phrase "the people of ___ vs mr/mrs ___"?

    Aldo on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    This is gonna turn into a debate over the purpose of imprisonment I just know it.

    The purpose of imprisonment should be to keep ugly people where we don't have to see them

    Sexy criminals can walk free

    Me Too! on
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Wow. That took a while.

    I wonder how he's still been well respected and employed in the film industry despite him having confessed to this crime over 30 years ago.
    Artists can do some crazy whacked out shit and still be revered.

    Most creative people are also douchebags in some way.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    So it's GREAT that this case is still being pursued even to the detriment of the person raped.
    Yes. Trials and the justice system do not exist solely for the victims.

    Because yes a man who hasn't been on US shores since the great PONG craze is important to our justice system.
    Then you'll say 'oh so criminals can just leave the US and we shouldn't try to catch them' to which I'll say 'dude it was 30 years ago and no one else has accused him of shit' to which you'll say 'oh good everyone gets a free rape card as long as they don't do it again' to which I'll say 'show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long?' That's as far ahead as I've got please take up the argument from this point.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    edited September 2009
    Anybody know what the French excuse for not extraditing him was?

    Tiger Burning on
    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    So it's GREAT that this case is still being pursued even to the detriment of the person raped.
    Yes. Trials and the justice system do not exist solely for the victims.

    Because yes a man who hasn't been on US shores since the great PONG craze is important to our justice system.
    Then you'll say 'oh so criminals can just leave the US and we shouldn't try to catch them' to which I'll say 'dude it was 30 years ago and no one else has accused him of shit' to which you'll say 'oh good everyone gets a free rape card as long as they don't do it again' to which I'll say 'show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long?' That's as far ahead as I've got please take up the argument from this point.

    Why are we always unwilling to forgive people for crimes they committed long ago in the past. Why can't we just let it go. Looking forward, not back.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long
    He has not suffered punishment from the justice system. There are a ton of reasons to still punish a person even if he is not likely to reoffend.

    The bolded part is just retarded. We are supposed to just allow criminals to go away scot free simply because the media is being its usual self now?

    He has not suffered actual punishment. Not being able to go to many countries is not the same as serving his sentence.

    Couscous on
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    So it's GREAT that this case is still being pursued even to the detriment of the person raped.
    Yes. Trials and the justice system do not exist solely for the victims.

    Because yes a man who hasn't been on US shores since the great PONG craze is important to our justice system.
    Then you'll say 'oh so criminals can just leave the US and we shouldn't try to catch them' to which I'll say 'dude it was 30 years ago and no one else has accused him of shit' to which you'll say 'oh good everyone gets a free rape card as long as they don't do it again' to which I'll say 'show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long?' That's as far ahead as I've got please take up the argument from this point.

    Alright, I guess the question then is what punishment do you think he has suffered that is equivalent to what he should have gotten for drugging and raping a 13 year old.

    kdrudy on
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Kagera wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    So it's GREAT that this case is still being pursued even to the detriment of the person raped.
    Yes. Trials and the justice system do not exist solely for the victims.

    Because yes a man who hasn't been on US shores since the great PONG craze is important to our justice system.
    Then you'll say 'oh so criminals can just leave the US and we shouldn't try to catch them' to which I'll say 'dude it was 30 years ago and no one else has accused him of shit' to which you'll say 'oh good everyone gets a free rape card as long as they don't do it again' to which I'll say 'show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long?' That's as far ahead as I've got please take up the argument from this point.

    Why are we always unwilling to forgive people for crimes they committed long ago in the past. Why can't we just let it go. Looking forward, not back.

    I KNOW! Gawd.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    There was also a financial settlement between Polanski and the victim. Do you really want to establish a precedent that a person can be convicted of rape, flee justice, pay the victim off, and then have the whole thing go away because the victim requests it?

    I'll give you a crack at my daughter for $2 million. For an extra $1 mil, I won't press charges if you get caught.

    KalTorak on
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    show me any evidence that he is someone who is likely to re-offend or has not suffered some punishment for the incident and in fact the media frenzy over this IS something that should be taken into account when talking about this specific case is it doing anyone any good to have this stupid shit go on for so long
    He has not suffered punishment from the justice system. There are a ton of reasons to still punish a person even if he is not likely to reoffend.

    The bolded part is just retarded. We are supposed to just allow criminals to go away scot free simply because the media is being its usual self now?

    No, the media being the media in celebrity cases can actually be a good thing now and again but I feel when the victim publicly says that she has continued to be traumatized for thirty years because of this case maybe we could just settle with a permanent exile of Polanski from US shores and let it go.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    Descendant XDescendant X Skyrim is my god now. Outpost 31Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Anybody know what the French excuse for not extraditing him was?

    The French just love their directors, especially crazy ones who make completely incomprehensible movies that the French press can call brilliant while everyone else scratches their heads and wonders what the fuck they just watched.

    Not saying his more recent work is like that, but some of his early stuff is just fucked right the hell up.

    Descendant X on
    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Why are we always unwilling to forgive people for crimes they committed long ago in the past. Why can't we just let it go. Looking forward, not back.
    You must first look backwards in order to look forward. It is obvious why we simply can't let a person avoid punishment from the justice system simply because he managed to evade capture for a long period of time.

    Couscous on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    No, the media being the media in celebrity cases can actually be a good thing now and again but I feel when the victim publicly says that she has continued to be traumatized for thirty years because of this case maybe we could just settle with a permanent exile of Polanski from US shores and let it go.
    That is not a fucking punishment.

    Couscous on
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    Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm with everyone who says that the victim's wishes ought to be enough to put the matter to rest. I'm just not comfortable with doing further damage to such people in the name of the law, at least when the person being pursued is unlikely to ever hurt anyone ever again. If that weren't the case, then obviously we'd have to take potential future victims into account.

    Robos A Go Go on
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    DuffelDuffel jacobkosh Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    No, the media being the media in celebrity cases can actually be a good thing now and again but I feel when the victim publicly says that she has continued to be traumatized for thirty years because of this case maybe we could just settle with a permanent exile of Polanski from US shores and let it go.
    That is not a fucking punishment.

    Seriously, that would basically just be saying "keep doing what you've been doing for 30 years".
    I'm with everyone who says that the victim's wishes ought to be enough to put the matter to rest. I'm just not comfortable with doing further damage to such people in the name of the law, at least when the person being pursued is unlikely to ever hurt anyone ever again. If that weren't the case, then obviously we'd have to take potential future victims into account.

    The legal system isn't there so everybody feels good, though - it's there so everyone is rendered equal in society in that whoever breaks that society's law is punished for it. Letting Polanski go would be tantamount to saying that it's permissable to drug and rape a child provided you have the fame and financial means to run away from the country where you did it for a few decades.

    Duffel on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Utilitarian viewpoint: Even if he is not likely to reoffend, must show that a person cannot simply avoid punishment by fleeing. Punishment needs to be as certain as possible.

    Retributive viewpoint: Not being able to go to many countries is obviously not proportionate to the crime.

    Couscous on
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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Anybody know what the French excuse for not extraditing him was?

    Whatever the official reason was I don't need to know - I can still TL;DR it as "because he is a famous and successful filmmaker from France" and be perfectly correct.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    No, the media being the media in celebrity cases can actually be a good thing now and again but I feel when the victim publicly says that she has continued to be traumatized for thirty years because of this case maybe we could just settle with a permanent exile of Polanski from US shores and let it go.
    That is not a fucking punishment.

    What, you want the FBI to do an extraordinary rendition when criminals go to countries without extradition treaties?

    What price justice, Couscous?

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    How about this, punish him by making him a convicted felon, but give him no prison sentence. Time served.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    How about this, punish him by making him a convicted felon, but give him no prison sentence. Time served.

    did he actually serve time

    Because that's what time served means

    That you served your sentence or a portion of it before the actual sentencing

    Me Too! on
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    DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    How about this, punish him by making him a convicted felon, but give him no prison sentence. Time served.

    How about punishing him by sentencing and making him serve time for the crime he comitted?

    Demiurge on
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    HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Wow. That took a while.

    I wonder how he's still been well respected and employed in the film industry despite him having confessed to this crime over 30 years ago.
    Artists can do some crazy whacked out shit and still be revered.

    Most creative people are also douchebags in some way.

    I just don't see how in this day and age a self admitted child rapist still enjoys employment and reverance.

    Like. Who would want to associate with such a guy.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
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    AibynAibyn Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Duffel wrote: »

    The legal system isn't there so everybody feels good, though - it's there so everyone is rendered equal in society in that whoever breaks that society's law is punished for it. Letting Polanski go would be tantamount to saying that it's permissible to drug and rape a child provided you have the fame and financial means to run away from the country where you did it for a few decades.

    Aibyn on
    "Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon..."

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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Honk wrote: »
    Honk wrote: »
    Wow. That took a while.

    I wonder how he's still been well respected and employed in the film industry despite him having confessed to this crime over 30 years ago.
    Artists can do some crazy whacked out shit and still be revered.

    Most creative people are also douchebags in some way.

    I just don't see how in this day and age a self admitted child rapist still enjoys employment and reverance.

    Like. Who would want to associate with such a guy.

    People can be pretty accommodating when they want to be.

    Like all those people who rabidly defended Chris Brown after he beat Rihanna.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Duffel wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    No, the media being the media in celebrity cases can actually be a good thing now and again but I feel when the victim publicly says that she has continued to be traumatized for thirty years because of this case maybe we could just settle with a permanent exile of Polanski from US shores and let it go.
    That is not a fucking punishment.

    Seriously, that would basically just be saying "keep doing what you've been doing for 30 years".
    I'm with everyone who says that the victim's wishes ought to be enough to put the matter to rest. I'm just not comfortable with doing further damage to such people in the name of the law, at least when the person being pursued is unlikely to ever hurt anyone ever again. If that weren't the case, then obviously we'd have to take potential future victims into account.

    The legal system isn't there so everybody feels good, though - it's there so everyone is rendered equal in society in that whoever breaks that society's law is punished for it. Letting Polanski go would be tantamount to saying that it's permissable to drug and rape a child provided you have the fame and financial means to run away from the country where you did it for a few decades.

    Let alone the obvious point that if you can cause enough emotional damage to the victim during the trial, you can get off scott free.

    Adrien on
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    FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    So okay, since it's okay for people to be all Sir Rapesalot if the victim eventually gets over it

    Would it be okay for me to ruthlessly slaughter all family members of a Buddhist Monk or two? I mean hell, they'll get over it faster than anybody!

    Fiaryn on
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    Me Too! on
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    mxmarksmxmarks Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Am I wrong, or wasn't the 13 year old his cousin too?

    mxmarks on
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    reVerse on
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    Except he wasn't running forever, he was living a cushy life in France, continuing to make movies.

    kdrudy on
    tvsfrank.jpg
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    If you let him off the hook, how the hell does that send the message that you need to keep running forever?

    edit: Also this:
    kdrudy wrote: »
    Except he wasn't running forever, he was living a cushy life in France, continuing to make movies.

    It's not like he was living as a hobo in some third world hellhole. He was living it large in France, making movies and having awards thrown at him for those movies.

    reVerse on
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    Me Too!Me Too! __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    Yes, truly living in France is a Sisyphean task

    Me Too! on
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    Mazer RackhamMazer Rackham __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    If you let him off the hook, how the hell does that send the message that you need to keep running forever?

    I don't think anyone is letting him off the hook. He is arrested but may not be extradited. Who knows. Maybe he'll run away again.

    Mazer Rackham on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Jeez I go take a shower and look what happens.

    I'm finding it hard to believe people can break out the "oh but the victim doesn't want him to be punished" argument with a straight face.

    Seriously. Think about the implications of this for a fucking second.

    Ed321 on
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I think we should invade France, make sure people KNOW you can't run from US law.
    I mean, they'd surrender anyway.

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Me Too! wrote: »
    Here's the thing, you can run away from the law. It's just illegal, and difficult, but you can do it. Everyone knows this, and putting this dude in prison isn't going to change that.

    And this makes it OK....how

    It doesn't it make it ok.

    Just saying that putting him prison now when he's pretty much near the end of his life anyway will be petty, and probably a vulgar display of power.

    And letting him walk would send the message to everyone that if you run away from the law long enough, you'll be rewarded for it by having all charges dropped.

    No, it will send the message to everyone that if you're going to run from the law, you pretty much have to keep running, forever. Like a dude who is forced to push a boulder up a hill, but every time he reaches the top, it comes back down. Forever.

    If you let him off the hook, how the hell does that send the message that you need to keep running forever?

    I don't think anyone is letting him off the hook.

    It's what you and quite a lot of other people seem to be advocating, though.

    reVerse on
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