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Roman Polanski: he made a thriller

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    HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I'm not particularly impressed by all the raging about the sanctity of the judicial system and crap in this thread. Considering all the people who should be in jail but aren't (politicians, policemen, rich people, etc) and all the people who are in jail but shouldn't not to mention all the other stupid bullshit in our criminal code like Megan's Laws, I for one do not have enough respect left for our judicial system to give a damn.

    Well then, I'm going to buy a plane ticket to France then rape somebody you care about...we'll see how you feel then.

    Just because we can't put all the powerful/famous people in prison that should be doesn't mean I don't feel strongly that we should try.

    We let people get away with far worse things all the time in the name of political expediency. Hell, we've done worse things to people in the name of the War on Terror.

    The law has to apply to everyone equally or else it has no moral right to do anything. Since it is abundantly clear that the law in the US is not equal, morally it has no right to judge anyone.

    What are you saying here? That we just convict no one until corruption of the system is entirely erased? Do you really think that's good for anyone?

    Mostly that the moral outrage that someone would dare flaunt the will of the US justice system is dumb, and that somehow letting this go would do any more damage to it than has already been done.

    HamHamJ on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    We let people get away with far worse things all the time in the name of political expediency. Hell, we've done worse things to people in the name of the War on Terror.

    The law has to apply to everyone equally or else it has no moral right to do anything. Since it is abundantly clear that the law in the US is not equal, morally it has no right to judge anyone.

    EDIT: Also, the evidence of impropriety on the part of the judge would seem to suggest that he never even got a fair trail in the first place which would frankly nullify the whole thing.
    How many of those people weren't properly tried, convicted, and ran away?

    The legal system does not judge people based on morality; it judges people based on a combination of various factors. Its authority to judge people does not come from morality.

    No, it does not nullify the whole thing. If he wanted to appeal or get it dismissed because of a lack of fair trial, he could have attempted to do so. He did not and instead ran away. He has refused to return in order to argue his case.

    Couscous on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Mostly that the moral outrage that someone would dare flaunt the will of the US justice system is dumb, and that somehow letting this go would do any more damage to it than has already been done.
    How many of those people have been tried, convicted, and flee with no good faith attempts made to have them captured and brought back?

    Couscous on
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    lsukalellsukalel Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    I'm not particularly impressed by all the raging about the sanctity of the judicial system and crap in this thread. Considering all the people who should be in jail but aren't (politicians, policemen, rich people, etc) and all the people who are in jail but shouldn't not to mention all the other stupid bullshit in our criminal code like Megan's Laws, I for one do not have enough respect left for our judicial system to give a damn.

    Well then, I'm going to buy a plane ticket to France then rape somebody you care about...we'll see how you feel then.

    Just because we can't put all the powerful/famous people in prison that should be doesn't mean I don't feel strongly that we should try.

    We let people get away with far worse things all the time in the name of political expediency. Hell, we've done worse things to people in the name of the War on Terror.

    The law has to apply to everyone equally or else it has no moral right to do anything. Since it is abundantly clear that the law in the US is not equal, morally it has no right to judge anyone.

    What are you saying here? That we just convict no one until corruption of the system is entirely erased? Do you really think that's good for anyone?

    Mostly that the moral outrage that someone would dare flaunt the will of the US justice system is dumb, and that somehow letting this go would do any more damage to it than has already been done.


    Just so I understand it's apparently dumb to want to see a child rapist brought to justice?

    Also letting a bad action go unpunished by definition does more damage than has already been done.

    lsukalel on
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited September 2009
    It's not definite that he'll be sent over to the States, right? What legal process will he go through in Switzerland?

    Elki on
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    joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Class Traitor Smoke-filled roomRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    B:L wrote: »
    I think maybe if he was forced to play The Path by Tale of Tales that could be considered equivalent to his entire prison time and he would get the added benefit of learning of the dangers of rape. It's a win/win.

    We have rules against cruel and unusual punishment.

    Roman is walking through the woods when all of a sudden a psychedelic rainbow-colored Swiss Policeman drops from the canopy above. They share tea and watch some of Roman's movies.
    Then Roman rapes the Swiss Policeman

    joshofalltrades on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I really like how if someone commits rape once that's apparently all they're ever going to do in the public's mind.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I really like how if someone commits rape once that's apparently all they're ever going to do in the public's mind.

    I'm not sure that's the point. It's clear that he hasn't reoffended, and it's also clear that he's a person with an illustrious career and well-earned respect and fame. He isn't just a fugitive and a rapist, but he's still a fugitive and a rapist and needs to face the facts and deal with the actual repercussions of his crimes.

    BloodySloth on
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    Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I really like how if someone commits rape once that's apparently all they're ever going to do in the public's mind.

    Exept in Roman's case thats not true, he has spent the last 30 years making a variety of movies, several to critical acclaim. He is also more know for being a fugitive then the crime.

    Kipling217 on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I really like how if someone commits rape once that's apparently all they're ever going to do in the public's mind.

    I'm not sure that's the point. It's clear that he hasn't reoffended, and it's also clear that he's a person with an illustrious career and well-earned respect and fame. He isn't just a fugitive and a rapist, but he's still a fugitive and a rapist and needs to face the facts and deal with the actual repercussions of his crimes.

    Yeah. If this was true UV then how would he have ever carried on and had his very successful career?

    Kalkino on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I was referring to joshofalltrades' post.

    It's like how after the initial Michael Jackson hearings in the early '90s, everything you heard about Michael Jackson suddenly had a molestation joke in there somewhere. Same thing with OJ Simpson and murder.

    I'm sure they're holding molestation and murder parties all the time, right?

    I respect the shit out of Roman Polanski's work as a director, and he has had an incredibly hard life. He made some stupid choices, and I agree that, in retrospect, he should have stayed and faced them, but seeing as his entire life had fallen apart in a matter of years, and then being armed with the knowledge that the judge working on his case may not be exactly honest, I can forgive the man for panicking and fleeing.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I was referring to joshofalltrades' post.

    It's like how after the initial Michael Jackson hearings in the early '90s, everything you heard about Michael Jackson suddenly had a molestation joke in there somewhere. Same thing with OJ Simpson and murder.

    I'm sure they're holding molestation and murder parties all the time, right?

    I respect the shit out of Roman Polanski's work as a director, and he has had an incredibly hard life. He made some stupid choices, and I agree that, in retrospect, he should have stayed and faced them, but seeing as his entire life had fallen apart in a matter of years, and then being armed with the knowledge that the judge working on his case may not be exactly honest, I can forgive the man for panicking and fleeing.

    Drugging and anally raping a thirteen-year-old girl isn't just a "stupid choice". But it seems to me you're now trying to argue he was innocent?

    Ed321 on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That is to say, I don't believe that his original intention was to make a mockery of our justice system, moreso that he was being made a mockery of by our justice system.

    As for why he didn't come back after that; fear. If someone's going to punish you, and then you run away, naturally the punishment would be harsher if you were ever caught.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ed321 wrote: »
    I was referring to joshofalltrades' post.

    It's like how after the initial Michael Jackson hearings in the early '90s, everything you heard about Michael Jackson suddenly had a molestation joke in there somewhere. Same thing with OJ Simpson and murder.

    I'm sure they're holding molestation and murder parties all the time, right?

    I respect the shit out of Roman Polanski's work as a director, and he has had an incredibly hard life. He made some stupid choices, and I agree that, in retrospect, he should have stayed and faced them, but seeing as his entire life had fallen apart in a matter of years, and then being armed with the knowledge that the judge working on his case may not be exactly honest, I can forgive the man for panicking and fleeing.

    Drugging and anally raping a thirteen-year-old girl isn't just a "stupid choice". But it seems to me you're now trying to argue he was innocent?

    I never said he was innocent.

    I also don't see how raping anyone isn't a stupid choice...?

    UnbreakableVow on
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    BloodySlothBloodySloth Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I was referring to joshofalltrades' post.

    It's like how after the initial Michael Jackson hearings in the early '90s, everything you heard about Michael Jackson suddenly had a molestation joke in there somewhere. Same thing with OJ Simpson and murder.

    I'm sure they're holding molestation and murder parties all the time, right?

    That's just how humor works, man. Shit I thought Jackson was innocent and I still made molestation jokes. Off-color humor isn't really something concerned with the good parts of someone's life.

    BloodySloth on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That is to say, I don't believe that his original intention was to make a mockery of our justice system, moreso that he was being made a mockery of by our justice system.

    How French!
    As for why he didn't come back after that; fear. If someone's going to punish you, and then you run away, naturally the punishment would be harsher if you were ever caught.

    I do not think you appreciate the severity of the crime. He drugged and raped a 13 year old girl. This wasn't even a "duhr my girlfriend's not legal yet" situation. The sex was in no way consensual.

    Hachface on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    That is to say, I don't believe that his original intention was to make a mockery of our justice system, moreso that he was being made a mockery of by our justice system.

    As for why he didn't come back after that; fear. If someone's going to punish you, and then you run away, naturally the punishment would be harsher if you were ever caught.

    I really don't understand what you're trying to say here. That he was unjustly accused of rape (despite the fact he admitted guilt)? Or that fleeing the country and serving no time is acceptable if the justice sytem messes up the sentencing (if indeed it did)?

    edit: okay so you're admitting he's guilty..,

    Ed321 on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What I'm saying is that, yes, he committed a severe crime. And yes, he shouldn't have run away. I agree with you on these fronts. He should be tried and convicted. These are not debatable.

    I'm just simply saying, the man isn't a monster, and is in fact someone I can sympathize with. The man lived through the Holocaust. Even after something as traumatic as that, he went on to find success as a film director and had a beautiful model as a wife. She was eight months pregnant, about to give birth to their child, and then she was brutally murdered by a gang of roving mass murderers. I can see how that would make someone mentally unstable enough to perpetrate a crime such as this.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    See here is what I don't get with some of this. A lot of people have basically said that if you do something wrong and repent of it and live a good life then you shouldn't be punished. But to me that just seems impossible. If you truly feel sorry for doing something and acknowledge it is wrong you should accept your punishment. If Polanski had just gone to prison in the first place and done his time I'd be all for living and let living now. But the fact that he never once came back to face the consequences of his actions to me means that he hasn't really repented of it.

    Neaden on
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    DarkWarriorDarkWarrior __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2009
    UV, all you have to ask yourself is that if it wasn't a famed director, would anyone give a shit? He'd be a nasty paedophile who raped a girl and deserves to be strung up. Because Tate was murdered and he lived a 'hard' life while being comfortably wealthy, it doesn't excuse what he did and noone else would be excused.

    You certainly wouldn't have the Polish foreign minister considering asking the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to let the rapist off with a warning.

    DarkWarrior on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    UV, all you have to ask yourself is that if it wasn't a famed director, would anyone give a shit?

    Maybe not the world at large, but if I knew of his case, I certainly would.

    He had his whole world pulled out from under him. Twice. That's goddamn crazy.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    UV, all you have to ask yourself is that if it wasn't a famed director, would anyone give a shit? He'd be a nasty paedophile who raped a girl and deserves to be strung up. Because Tate was murdered and he lived a 'hard' life while being comfortably wealthy, it doesn't excuse what he did and noone else would be excused.

    You certainly wouldn't have the Polish foreign minister considering asking the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES to let the rapist off with a warning.

    I'm sure you mean "strung up" metaphorically...8-)

    Ed321 on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    http://www.vachss.com/mission/roman_polanski.html
    Originally published in The Washington Post, February 3, 1978

    Polanski's probation report said he was profoundly affected by the brutal murder of his wife, actress Sharon Tate, in 1969. Court sources said the film director, imprisoned in Auschwitz by the Nazis during the World War II, was repelled by the thought of possibly serving more time behind bars.

    The British Broadcasting Corp. quoted Polanski as saying by telephone, "I've been tortured by this for a year and that's enough."
    I want to punch him in his face.

    Couscous on
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    HachfaceHachface Not the Minister Farrakhan you're thinking of Dammit, Shepard!Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Raping a young girl is a fantastic way to celebrate the memory of your murdered wife.

    Hachface on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    UV, all you have to ask yourself is that if it wasn't a famed director, would anyone give a shit?

    Maybe not the world at large, but if I knew of his case, I certainly would.

    He had his whole world pulled out from under him. Twice. That's goddamn crazy.

    Unless Polanski has been mentally unfit from the 1970s onwards and not responsible for his actions (hoho, debauched parties notwithstanding), all this means is that he had a shitty life. That's as far as it goes. It has zero bearing on his crimes. You can be sympathetic to him, but you should care more about his victim.

    Ed321 on
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    DemiurgeDemiurge Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://www.vachss.com/mission/roman_polanski.html
    Originally published in The Washington Post, February 3, 1978

    Polanski's probation report said he was profoundly affected by the brutal murder of his wife, actress Sharon Tate, in 1969. Court sources said the film director, imprisoned in Auschwitz by the Nazis during the World War II, was repelled by the thought of possibly serving more time behind bars.

    The British Broadcasting Corp. quoted Polanski as saying by telephone, "I've been tortured by this for a year and that's enough."
    I want to punch him in his face.

    Oh boo hoo, cry me a fucking river, I too want to punch this man in his face.

    Demiurge on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ed321 wrote: »
    UV, all you have to ask yourself is that if it wasn't a famed director, would anyone give a shit?

    Maybe not the world at large, but if I knew of his case, I certainly would.

    He had his whole world pulled out from under him. Twice. That's goddamn crazy.

    Unless Polanski has been mentally unfit from the 1970s onwards and not responsible for his actions (hoho, debauched parties notwithstanding), all this means is that he had a shitty life. That's as far as it goes. It has zero bearing on his crimes. You can be sympathetic to him, but you should care more about his victim.

    I'd care more about his victim if that's what were really the issue here. Even she doesn't seem to care anymore.

    It's solely about the justice system at this point, which I admittedly care less about.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Couscous wrote: »
    http://www.vachss.com/mission/roman_polanski.html
    Originally published in The Washington Post, February 3, 1978

    Polanski's probation report said he was profoundly affected by the brutal murder of his wife, actress Sharon Tate, in 1969. Court sources said the film director, imprisoned in Auschwitz by the Nazis during the World War II, was repelled by the thought of possibly serving more time behind bars.

    The British Broadcasting Corp. quoted Polanski as saying by telephone, "I've been tortured by this for a year and that's enough."
    I want to punch him in his face.

    Hey it's cool guys, being sent to prison for rape is just like the Holocaust. :winky:

    I'd care more about his victim if that's what were really the issue here. Even she doesn't seem to care anymore.

    It's solely about the justice system at this point, which I admittedly care less about.


    Then he should've handed himself in, pled guilty to everything and not made a fucking media circus out of it.

    In case you're unaware, he's been trying to get the case dismissed for the past few years. He's the one prolonging things.

    Ed321 on
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    themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ed321 wrote: »
    You can be sympathetic to him, but you should care more about his victim.

    Is it morally wrong to be sympathetic to him because I believe he is a great filmmaker and not even think about his victim? Is it morally wrong to care nothing about either but want him punished because I think it will reduce my chances of being raped in the future?

    themightypuck on
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What I'm saying is that, yes, he committed a severe crime. And yes, he shouldn't have run away. I agree with you on these fronts. He should be tried and convicted. These are not debatable.
    He was tried and convicted. Then he ran away.

    Having a hard life does not absolve you of crimes. I'm sure many criminals had abusive fathers or druggie parents, and yes, I might be able to understand what led them to commit their crimes, but that in no way forgives them.

    P10 on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Ed321 wrote: »
    You can be sympathetic to him, but you should care more about his victim.

    Is it morally wrong to be sympathetic to him because I believe he is a great filmmaker and not even think about his victim? Is it morally wrong to care nothing about either but want him punished because I think it will reduce my chances of being raped in the future?

    I'm saying if you're going to be sympathetic to him, don't let it overcloud the fact he did a horrible thing to someone. I'm not saying "you are forbidden to watch Roman Polanski's films" or something, if that's what you think.

    Ed321 on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    What I'm saying is that, yes, he committed a severe crime. And yes, he shouldn't have run away. I agree with you on these fronts. He should be tried and convicted. These are not debatable.
    He was tried and convicted. Then he ran away.

    Having a hard life does not absolve you of crimes. I'm sure many criminals had abusive fathers or druggie parents, and yes, I might be able to understand what led them to commit their crimes, but that in no way forgives them.

    That's nice.

    You realize I'm not at all disagreeing with you, correct?

    UnbreakableVow on
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    P10P10 An Idiot With Low IQ Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm confused as to what exactly you are saying? That we should sympathize with a child rapist because you know, he's probably a pretty nice guy deep down? Or because he had a rough life?

    P10 on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm just saying that I sympathize with him.

    Just because I'm very sympathetic doesn't mean I don't believe the man should serve time.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    Ed321Ed321 Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I'm just saying that I sympathize with him.

    Just because I'm very sympathetic doesn't mean I don't believe the man should serve time.

    I think people assumed you were using this a pretext to imply that he should be let off the hook, but it seems I was mistaken, so fair enough.

    Ed321 on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I've been thinking about it more as an impromptu probation, where he is banished from the US and any extradition treaty countries.

    He violated the terms of his parole, and now gets to go back to jail / prison.

    After hearing the details of his case, I'm so very disappointed that any motion picture studios / producers / awards associations have associated with him at all in the last 30+ years.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    After hearing the details of his case, I'm so very disappointed that any motion picture studios / producers / awards associations have associated with him at all in the last 30+ years.

    Why? His brilliant work should just go unrecognized?

    UnbreakableVow on
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    sportzboytjwsportzboytjw squeeeeeezzeeee some more tax breaks outRegistered User regular
    edited September 2009
    I've been thinking about it more as an impromptu probation, where he is banished from the US and any extradition treaty countries.

    He violated the terms of his parole, and now gets to go back to jail / prison.

    After hearing the details of his case, I'm so very disappointed that any motion picture studios / producers / awards associations have associated with him at all in the last 30+ years.

    They're expected to be scum... the public who is supporting him though is just stupid.

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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    After hearing the details of his case, I'm so very disappointed that any motion picture studios / producers / awards associations have associated with him at all in the last 30+ years.

    Why? His brilliant work should just go unrecognized?

    Yes, I am willing to let some fucking ENTERTAINMENT go unrecognized.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    How wonderfully closed-minded.

    UnbreakableVow on
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