Options

Wherin a Dirty Vagrant improves her artwork (NSFW)

DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
edited October 2011 in Artist's Corner
So I did a few gestures and a sketch today of some kind of girl with swords for some reason. Frankly I'm not impressed with any of them, and although they aren't finished, I'm hoping that they're finished enough to get some kind of feedback on.

In these particular gestures I'm using the six line figure technique that cake taught me. It's helped me a ton, but I feel like I'm missing something.

Some of these might be a little large, too. Sorry about that.

Here's the drawing for the instruction thread (one of four that I did, but I was never able to submit it because of a scanner shortage and also my phone was stolen so no pictures)
cakemixpose.jpg

This is me a couple of weeks ago fooling around and drawing from one of the plates in my anatomy book. This is essentially me trying to get a feel for how the arms and trunk connect.
anatomicalthingy.jpg



Gestures
gestures1.jpg
Evidently these were cropped just a bit close.

More gestures
gestures2.jpg


An effort by me to draw a character from nothing. This was done without reference. This is the picture I was talking about in chat. The anatomy is off somewhere and I cannot pinpoint it at all. It feels like she's too long and narrow. Also yes the costume is terrible and I'm sorry. I really do apologize.
queenospades.jpg

I probably should do some tonal drawings, I know, but I feel like getting the shapes down is probably a good first step before that.

Let me know if there's anything in particular that you'd like to see me try and do.

E: Oh yes. Also please know that I really am making an effort to clean up my drawings. I know I draw terrible terrible lines.

DirtyDirtyVagrant on
«13

Posts

  • Options
    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yay box forms! Yay!


    You're making your gestures too complicated. You only need to convey the energy inside to get the weight of the form:

    KncgJ.jpg


    Once you're able to establish this enough without thinking about it should you move on to details.

    Keep it up!

    Godfather on
  • Options
    LexxyLexxy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    What Godfather said with the gestures. The idea behind gesture drawing is to get down the dynamics of the pose with basic proportions. They won't always come out proportionate, but the more you do them the faster you'll be able to process everything else. Also screw box forms--you end up paying way too much attention to making the shapes look right instead of getting the figure down. Bah!

    As for the drawing, I think you mentioned something in the other thread about the crotch being 2/3 of the way up the body or something? Where on earth did you get this information? It's different for everyone, of course, but the base of the pelvis is approximately halfway between the bottom of the heel and the tippy top of the head. I think people who are into cartoons and anime and comics and things suffer from long legs syndrome to the extent that proportionate legs seem too short to them.

    I guarantee if you shorten up those legs she'll look a lot better.

    Crotch is the approximate halfway point. Elbow and knee joints divide arms and legs pretty evenly in half from shoulder to wrist and hip to ankle. Fingertips hit about halfway down the thigh with arms lying flat at the sides.


    p.s. The top middle dude third picture down (after the heading "gestures") is DEFINITELY heading in the right direction from the waist up. Great lines.

    p.p.s. I've TOTALLY done a gesture of that chick with the hands on her butt XDD

    Lexxy on
  • Options
    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Woah lexxy, not cool knocking down the box forms! They help a lot, and are great for beginners!


    Listen to miss Lexxy; she's a sassy artist, and a guru when it comes to drawing the wo-mans.

    Godfather on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Yeah. What I actually said though is that her crotch was approximately 2/3rds of the way down the fourth head length. I guess I never bothered to measure out how long I was drawing her legs. So there's my answer on that question. I know these things. I just seem to forget them. It's funny that you mention anime artists actually because I was one of those guys who drew it exclusively. I wish I had listened to my art teachers in high school. All of this is me trying to break out of that. Chances are you all will be seeing a lot of old habits.

    Is there any proportional rule of thumb about the length of the thigh from hipbone to the knee cap?

    Also, in that first gesture piece I rather like the bottom left dude.

    e: I had assumed the gestures werent detailed enough. I will do some more over the weekend. (I say the weekend because I work 8AM-10PM thursday through sunday)

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As the person who suggested the box forms in the first place I have to disagree with Lexxy. Box forms are great for understanding the figure 3-dimensionally.

    I like seeing you using the Reilly Method as well, but try to be more careful about this indications. Use the opposing triangles to describe the gesture of your figure, not just the proportions...that isn't really their purpose.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Options
    LexxyLexxy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Man I hate box forms YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD! If you feel like it helps, then go for it? Cake kind of kicks ass at traditional art things, and I have nothing to suggest otherwise; I'm really not sure exactly what it is I did to help me establish volume aside from gestures and light studies. But box forms as done above was never something I was instructed to do and never something that did anything for me so I'm not an advocate.

    Anyway, because I can't leave a damn thing alone, I did some superfast redlines:

    ddvagrant_redlines.jpg

    I ended up dropping the crotch a little more than shortening the legs, but the end result is about the same. Don't worry so much about getting the lines spot on the first time. Trying to keep your drawing super tight from step one will result in it looking stiff and flat. Doing a gesture first--even if it's just a little thumbnail sketch off to the side for reference--will probably help with that. I tend to draw little swooshy lines and circles to define limbs and joints before fleshing out the rest of the figure.

    Gestures are definitely not meant to look finished. Just try to get the essence of the pose and proportions down as quickly and fluidly as you can. The ones I linked to in my first pose were 20-40 second gestures. Do a shitton of those and then try drawing, it's just like stretching before a workout :3

    Don't worry Vagrant, I'm totally in the same boat as you. I drew animu chicks with forever long legs and totally resisted giving proper attention to traditional studies till I hit college. I've still got bad habits to kick, and will probably never fully get over them 8D

    Lexxy on
  • Options
    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Also make sure to give strong emphasis on the part of the figure that supports the weight of the pose, else the entire house will fall down. This is absolutely critical when doing gestures.

    Godfather on
  • Options
    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    boxes are pretty dern helpful, I recommend trying both boxes and the reily abstraction it doesn't hurt to try

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • Options
    LexxyLexxy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Wow, sounds like everyone drew box forms except me.

    I'm such a rebel?

    Lexxy on
  • Options
    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    no I got your back

    Tam on
  • Options
    NappuccinoNappuccino Surveyor of Things and Stuff Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I never "got" the boxes either.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Options
    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I never did the box thing either. They always felt all jerky and wrong to me, figures flow and boxes do not.
    Not saying that they're not good for some people, but they give me the creeps.

    I'm totally down with cylinders though, my legs and arms would look like wet noodles without cylinders.

    Mustang on
  • Options
    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    The box forms are a specific exercise with a specific purpose. I don't use them in 99% of figure drawings I do because they really aren't a great drawing tool. They are more of a thinking tool.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Options
    NappuccinoNappuccino Surveyor of Things and Stuff Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Slightly off topic, but aren't you the one who debated the value of drawing a picture upside down when its an exercise meant for a specific purpose that will only be done in about 1% of a persons drawings?

    Interesting :P

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Options
    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Do you really want to start an argument with me about the merit of drawing the volumes that make up a figure in gestural perspective versus copying upside-down photographs? Do you?

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Options
    beavotronbeavotron Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    i have never done boxes
    but i'm in a first year drawing course now so WE SHALL SEE

    I don't see them having a lack of merit, it's just not how i learned how to do it
    but... i mean, i taught myself... probably the wrong way, who knows?

    beavotron on
  • Options
    NappuccinoNappuccino Surveyor of Things and Stuff Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Do you really want to start an argument with me about the merit of drawing the volumes that make up a figure in gestural perspective versus copying upside-down photographs? Do you?

    No, i just find this situation ironic is all.

    Nappuccino on
    Like to write? Want to get e-published? Give us a look-see at http://wednesdaynightwrites.com/
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    There's also the possibility you just can't really grow a bear like other guys.

    Not even BEAR vaginas can defeat me!
    cakemikz wrote: »
    And then I rub actual cake on myself.
    Loomdun wrote: »
    thats why you have chest helmets
  • Options
    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    cakemikz wrote: »
    The box forms are a specific exercise with a specific purpose. I don't use them in 99% of figure drawings I do because they really aren't a great drawing tool. They are more of a thinking tool.



    No, seriously, give them a try.


    They make building the figure a hell of a lot easier. The simple truth is that if you can't even lay down a simple, convincing box figure possessing the depth and weight of a normal figure, what makes you think drawing a normal person with a far more complicated form will be any easier?

    They're quick, easy, and a great way to progress. There is absolutely zero down side to this.

    Give it a try!

    Godfather on
  • Options
    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Godfather I want to make sure you understand that I was encouraging the use of box forms. Rereading what I wrote in your quote it looks like I am discouraging them. You did lime it though so I think you and I are on the same page.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Okay. New drawing today. I did another one of the girls from cake's thread on gesture, and I've got to say I'm generally unhappy with it. Although there are a few small parts that I feel I did well on. The face is not one of these parts. Holy hell. I orignally left it blank, and then put something in, and then started trying to correct it, and finally gave up deciding I could do facial studies later.

    tonalthingy1.png

    Let me know if anything is proportionally out of whack because, again, I forgot to measure. Fuck.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I hindsight I maybe should have darkened the scan a little, because it is looking rather faded compared to the real thing.

    Also damn. I just saw Beav's shoes and suddenly everything my teachers said about still life drawing came back. Darker darks! Push those darks! That being said, I basically have no idea where to go from here.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    Let me know if anything is proportionally out of whack


    Well, her back is disturbingly long. Actually 'disturbingly' doesn't really cut it, that's some reptilian shit going on there.

    It looks like you were drawing piecemeal - 'this bit, then that bit' - rather than looking at the drawing as a whole. And i think you were definitely not spending enough time looking at the reference.

    Keep practising, though, it's coming along!

    tynic on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Next time I will have to spend more time constructing. I'm still working on a process, actually. That's probably why everything looks so piecemeal. It's because I start with the riley triangles to get the gesture and then "whoa. How do I know how far apart the shoulders and hips are? Arent I supposed to be measuring in heads? I am so lost."

    The last part is me talking to myself.

    This is going to sound like a dumb question probably, but how much of a difference does it make if I'm doing this uninterrupted or not? I mean really.

    I am gonna start a new drawing right now.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    CharisCharis Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Charis on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Long back is looong.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    GodfatherGodfather Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    cakemikz wrote: »
    Godfather I want to make sure you understand that I was encouraging the use of box forms. Rereading what I wrote in your quote it looks like I am discouraging them. You did lime it though so I think you and I are on the same page.

    Yes, I am on the same page.


    The comment was aimed at the naysayers, but I guess it's my error on how it was interpreted towards.

    Godfather on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Did this today. It's not great either but I feel like I improved.

    [Snip]

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    It's good vagrant, but remember you need to take as much care with the head as you do the body.
    It seems almost everyone does this, me included.

    Mustang on
  • Options
    CharisCharis Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    And watch out, you seem to be symbolizing eyes, nose, and mouth. Draw what you see, not what you think an eye should look like.

    Charis on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    There has to be some way for me to get past this. I've drawn hundreds of faces, and few of them have looked as terrible as the last two. I dont get it. I laid out the lines, I placed the features, and then I took a shit. What about the body? Any glaring proportional irregularities? Am I doing enough to define things? Should I keep doing this or find something else?

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I am going to redraw that face and then rescan it.

    Here's the rescan. It's not great, but I think it's a bit better.

    tonalthingy2.png

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    MustangMustang Arbiter of Unpopular Opinions Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Nothing glaringly wrong with the body, her left shoulder looks a little wonky but nothing to write to your mother about.

    Honestly I think it's just a matter of practice. But to me it looks like you paid a lot of attention to the torso but didn't take the same amount of care with the face. Don't stress too much about it, as I said everyone has done the same at some stage. Just take note of it for next time. There's a lot of good in your drawing, just a few details bringing it down.

    Mustang on
  • Options
    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well what were you thinking when you actually went to the eye, were you completely focused on just the eye? And how did you lay out the nose, did you use shapes that you thought looked like a nose but were suppose to be simpler?

    I think the two main issues is you accidently stepped into toning (Shading) the drawing to soon, and the proportions are off. If you get the proportions of a head right, then placing in the eyes and nose becomes easier. And you also have to use the right shapes that dont over complicate the drawing from the start

    ughghgh I always tell myself to never try helping again every time I go at it but anyways heres a draw over

    based off my poor knowledge of the figure and what I had to work with

    cmLLI.jpg

    heres just without yours on top of it

    0gb4e.jpg

    If you want a good exercise for your next drawing, I recommend going at just pure line work

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    okay that makes a lot more sense I cant do draw overs yet i'm noo where good enough, hold on though i''ll draw something else

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • Options
    LoomdunLoomdun Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I still struggle barely to even get things right with a reference oh boy, but here you go

    alright so this lady has a big ol' mess of hair What you want to do with hair is rather then curves, I at least tend to find it a lot simpler with using more edgy lines to get the mass of it but also the angle. As for everything else this is more of the reily abstraction plus random stuff I got from instructors

    O2RzL.jpg

    Now what is really important that will really help you is paying attention to negative space, and making sure that the negative space size is consistant with everything else. When you take measurements you want to not only make sure you get the line aiming in the right direction but you also want to make sure that the shapes around it are in proper size.

    All those arrows point to the negative space that I used not only inside the figure even with things like hair to breast, but on the outside as well

    Theres a wholee bunch of other things to say but really I think paying attention to only line and negative space will really help you right now, maybe not even draw the eyes, just draw the eye sockets and the triangle thing I used for a nose. and try to get the size right.

    try not to over complicated it with things that you see such as the rib cage, I merely used a single curved line rather then go in and try to add every nick and curve of the body

    Loomdun on
    splat
  • Options
    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You want my advice? If you are having trouble drawing heads....draw some heads. You don't need to get down a full figure in every drawing. Draw some nice big heads for a little bit.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
  • Options
    DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I will do that.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Options
    TamTam Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Just don't get carried away and start drawing only heads like I did.

    Tam on
  • Options
    LaliluleloLalilulelo Richmond, VARegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Don't think 'eye' when you're drawing them, just think in shapes. You're just reproducing shapes. Work from big to small, checking your proportions as you go. Also, don't pay attention to that drawing loomdun posted.
    Nothing against loomdun, but polygonal breasts aren't gonna teach you anything. And why the hell did you draw the left eye when it's barely even visible in the reference? Possibly using it as a frame of reference, but it just looks like a habit you picked up from anime. The bit that is visible is one thing, but the rest falling behind the hair is so faint that falls into 'details' category and getting the actual structure right is your first priority. The head is too small-- and you just kinda cartoonized the whole shape of it.
    :/

    Lalilulelo on
Sign In or Register to comment.