Money was never a problem in Majora's Mask. Just turn into a Goron and roll around the field for a while. Duh.
I found that the best way to make cash was to win the Goron Race over and over, then sell the gold dust to the guy at the Curiosity Shop (worked wonders late in the game when you had four to six bottles on you). Either that, or killing the Vulture would also net you 200 rupees at once.
the constant resetting of the button that makes exploration nearly impossible
What? Exploration is still easy, and if you need to check out something that requires you to beat a temple's boss there is a teleporter at the entrance so you can quickly get to business.
and that stupid bank system, were all enough to turn me off the title.
The bank system was awesome. I can't speak for you, but in the other 3D Zelda games I'm usually maxed out on rupees. Being able to keep more than what my wallet could hold was was nice.
There were ways of working around the time limit, but just the fact that you had to work around it at all was a nuisence to me.
Honestly, I've never understood any complaint about the time "limit". It's not a limit, it's a cycle that controls NPC movement and actions. You have plenty of time to do stuff, even without the Inverted Song of Time.
Uh..just cause you have plenty of time doesn't mean there's no time limit.
It made it feel like there was actually something at stake, nevermind the fleshing out of the characters it offered
I felt... hn... like I was actually being pressed to accomplish something
Whereas TP and that it just felt like "Well, I guess I'll get around to saving the world from some evil force that... sits there in that castle and looks menacing. But first, gonna play some minigames and do some shopping and hey look a cave"
MM's problem was that they didn't show you how to slow down time early enough, and that the first portion of the game is incredibly slow paced.
The scarecrow that tells you about is in both the shop and the observatory. If you don't talk to the dancing scarecrow when you pass it on your way to get the Moon's Tear it's not the games fault.
Well I did play this years ago, I think I might have remembered that incorrectly.
I preferred OoT. I did get to empathize with Termina in MM, but it was a linear story in OoT. Maybe it's because it's the first Zelda game I owned and I liked how it didn't have a strange gimmick, or maybe it was the transition from young Link to old, or perhaps the bigger land to explore. I just liked it more.
See: Dragon Quarter. We will probably never see another Breath of Fire game thanks to that
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF game. And this is coming from someone who used to hate it because of how different it is from the other games in the series.
See: Dragon Quarter. We will probably never see another Breath of Fire game thanks to that
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF game. And this is coming from someone who used to hate it because of how different it is from the other games in the series.
I don't have infinite quantities of time, and Dragon Quarters replay system makes me feel like my time is being wasted on arbitrary bullshit to get the full story.
See: Dragon Quarter. We will probably never see another Breath of Fire game thanks to that
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF game. And this is coming from someone who used to hate it because of how different it is from the other games in the series.
I don't have infinite quantities of time, and Dragon Quarters replay system makes me feel like my time is being wasted on arbitrary bullshit to get the full story.
I realize this is a bit off topic, but what is with the hate for silent protagonists lately? While my memory isn't good enough for specific citation, I can remember reading at least 5 reviews that took the time to say how the game would have been better without a silent protagonist (one of them was for Dead Space, I remember that).
In actuality, having the PC speak rarely adds anything to the game.
Sometimes silent protagonists seem stupid when interacting with other characters. For example, while I consider it a masterpiece, half-life 2 pissed me off to no end with Gordon's lack of questioning.
I think Valve's approach to the silent protagonist is the best. It is pretty clear that Valve wants the player to be Gordon Freeman, letting them place their own feelings and thoughts forward instead of writing lines for Gordon.
Nintendo's approach is a bit off to me. Link expresses himself plenty through facial expressions and even worse, some NPCs tell us how he is feeling. This doesn't really let the player interject their own thoughts into him. He comes off as a stupid, but lovable mute.
I dislike the silent protagonist because I am not Gordon Freeman or Link. The ways I would react or things I would say are not the same (let alone options for me to choose), and no game is ever going to able to accommodate for all the different types of players. I think it's better to just give the main character some definition.
See: Dragon Quarter. We will probably never see another Breath of Fire game thanks to that
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF game. And this is coming from someone who used to hate it because of how different it is from the other games in the series.
No, III and IV are tied for best. Those games fucking ruled.
I think Valve's approach to the silent protagonist is the best. It is pretty clear that Valve wants the player to be Gordon Freeman, letting them place their own feelings and thoughts forward instead of writing lines for Gordon.
Nintendo's approach is a bit off to me. Link expresses himself plenty through facial expressions and even worse, some NPCs tell us how he is feeling. This doesn't really let the player interject their own thoughts into him. He comes off as a stupid, but lovable mute.
I dislike the silent protagonist because I am not Gordon Freeman or Link. The ways I would react or things I would say are not the same (let alone options for me to choose), and no game is ever going to able to accommodate for all the different types of players. I think it's better to just give the main character some definition.
I don't think the "player becomes the silent hero" bit holds water. It's pretty widely accepted in literature that ironically, the more a character is fleshed out and real, the more we empathize with them, no matter how different they are from us. All of a sudden since we can control who the main character stabs, making them a blank slate is supposed to allow us to project?
Let's face it, Link is only silent due to tradition. And I think that it's fine, but Nintendo didn't contextualize it in TP very well. I think part of it is their recent insistence on making Link tote around some "helper" to be his voice.
As someone who grew up with Zelda 1, 2, and LttP, where Link was described or alluded to as a teenager in-game, in-manual, and in-cartoon - it was a real turnoff seeing a Zelda game with Link as a child.
I realize it's a sensitive topic and younger fans of the series don't like their favorite game being alluded to as a "kiddy game", but it's just how it felt to older gamers. I grew up with Zelda being a dark story of a destroyed world with a 16-18 year old losing his "sweet heart" and setting out to save the world. I even enjoyed Awakening because that same Link was used.
I thought the child Link in OoT was a gimmick that introduced enough new gameplay elements to make it worthwhile, but I simply did not agree with the approach of dedicating an entire game to "baby Link".
As someone who grew up with Zelda 1, 2, and LttP, where Link was described or alluded to as a teenager in-game, in-manual, and in-cartoon - it was a real turnoff seeing a Zelda game with Link as a child.
I realize it's a sensitive topic and younger fans of the series don't like their favorite game being alluded to as a "kiddy game", but it's just how it felt to older gamers. I grew up with Zelda being a dark story of a destroyed world with a 16-18 year old losing his "sweet heart" and setting out to save the world. I even enjoyed Awakening because that same Link was used.
I thought the child Link in OoT was a gimmick that introduced enough new gameplay elements to make it worthwhile, but I simply did not agree with the approach of dedicating an entire game to "baby Link".
This is amusing because Majora's Mask is by far the darkest game in the series.
Child Link is fine by me. It's just that adult Link is so awesome.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
I preferred majora's mask mostly because it dealt with the one feature I missed from OoT, simply that time itself is important. In OoT you could technically travel through time but it felt more like traveling from light world to dark world then moving backward/forward in time. There were very few (note I didn't say any) reasons to ever travel back in time once you became an adult and with only one 'portal' between them there wasn't even much of the 'hop in the portal, do something in one world to affect the other' type stuff that existed in LttP. Majora's mask on the other hand you had to pay attention to what happened around you to have stuff happen at the correct times, characters would respond to you in different way depending on what you did, and if you messed up then you could go back and try again. It actually gave a sense of traveling through time that OoT didn't.
donkyhotay on
Do not be afraid to joust a giant just because some people insist on believing in windmills.
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I honestly think Majora's Mask is superior to Ocarina of Time in... yeah... everything. Not only sidequests. There may be fewer dungeons, but those are incredible. And above all, MM isn't just OoT 2: Electric Bogaloo, but rather something completely different; Twilight Princess felt like OoT and suffered for it, but MM is like a new game, despite sharing most of the game mechanics. That's atmosphere for ya.
But I think it's flat-out impossible for MM to have been "the first game". This game is an instance of developers sitting down and actually thinking about how to surpass the greatest Zelda game ever, and they presented the perfect solution by surpassing the Zelda formula itself. There wouldn't have been anything to improve upon if it weren't for OoT. (Yes, ALttP is very similar, but it's 2D...) Maybe MM could have existed as another game entirely... and then it would probably still be a hidden gem, simply because it's not very accessible. Yeah, that's MM's major weakness. Confusing as heck at the beginning. Little tricks like slowing down time, rupee deposits or the scarecrow song remove most problems people have with the game, but good luck finding them right away. Not to mention general cluelessness right at the start.
Majora's Mask was the only Zelda game where the world surpassed the player. Termina was the star of the show, not Link.
I loved OOT. It will always have a special place in my heart. It did everything right in my book for a jump to 3D.
Majora was a game that I could get lost in. Everything about it was so interesting, and every area felt miles away from the main hub (clock town), especially Ikanya Canyon.
The Stone Tower Temple was a masterpiece in dungeon design; it's absolutely flawless. Nailed every aspect of what makes a dungeon/temple fun and brought that fucker home.
As someone who grew up with Zelda 1, 2, and LttP, where Link was described or alluded to as a teenager in-game, in-manual, and in-cartoon - it was a real turnoff seeing a Zelda game with Link as a child.
I realize it's a sensitive topic and younger fans of the series don't like their favorite game being alluded to as a "kiddy game", but it's just how it felt to older gamers. I grew up with Zelda being a dark story of a destroyed world with a 16-18 year old losing his "sweet heart" and setting out to save the world. I even enjoyed Awakening because that same Link was used.
I thought the child Link in OoT was a gimmick that introduced enough new gameplay elements to make it worthwhile, but I simply did not agree with the approach of dedicating an entire game to "baby Link".
This is amusing because Majora's Mask is by far the darkest game in the series.
It is amusing that they decided to stick with the atmosphere of the rest of the series (dark, forboding, in need of a hero), but chose to make the protagonist a child. I don't oppose their decision, they needed to hook in a new generation of gamers. It's like the Baby Mario and Baby Peach games. Excellent games and highly critically acclaimed, but they definitely took the series in a new direction with the intent of hooking in a new audience.
It doesn't make Majora's Mask or Baby Mario games bad. Just the opposite - they're GREAT games. I just don't think they should be considered as direct comparisons to 1, 2, LttP, LA, and OoT.
TekDragon on
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VoranthMI NOMBRE, POR CIERTOES DONTÉ!Registered Userregular
The Nintendo 64 always had the best commercials for their games.
Godfather on
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
I don't think Majora's Mask would have worked as the first game in the 3D series. OoT was a perfect 2d zelda in 3D and really showed how the series could work in the new format. It let everybody get some experience with the 3D games first and paved the way for Majora's Mask. The fact that OoT sold so well also probably contributed to Nintendo trying so many things with MM.
MM is definitely my favorite game in the series. The world is wonderfully fleshed out, the actual game-play oriented bits (dungeons, side questes) are well put together, and the side quests almost all give you a good reward. There are very few games where I empathized with the characters as much as MM, they all felt important and I genuinely cared what happened to them.
As for the complaint about Link being a kid, you have to remember what he has done before. This is the same Link from OoT. Hes seen horrible things, the world nearly destroyed, and just about everybody he new from his childhood ended up being a sage and getting whisked away to the light realm forever. He's saved the world once before, and now he has to deal with everything in MM. By the end of this game he's played with time so much Bill Murry would blush, he's watched people try desperately to avoid there fate over and over again. He helps people even though he knows that in three days time it's not going to mean anything and all his work will be undone again. He even has a taste of god-hood before all is said and done. I'm pretty sure he's as qualified as anybody.
Really I think MM is as close to perfect as Zelda has ever come. The only thing I would add to it would probably be TP's inventory system.
As for the complaint about Link being a kid, you have to remember what he has done before. This is the same Link from OoT. Hes seen horrible things, the world nearly destroyed, and just about everybody he new from his childhood ended up being a sage and getting whisked away to the light realm forever. He's saved the world once before, and now he has to deal with everything in MM. By the end of this game he's played with time so much Bill Murry would blush, he's watched people try desperately to avoid there fate over and over again. He helps people even though he knows that in three days time it's not going to mean anything and all his work will be undone again. He even has a taste of god-hood before all is said and done. I'm pretty sure he's as qualified as anybody.
I was under the impression each Link from the Zelda games was a different Link in a different time period.
As for the complaint about Link being a kid, you have to remember what he has done before. This is the same Link from OoT. Hes seen horrible things, the world nearly destroyed, and just about everybody he new from his childhood ended up being a sage and getting whisked away to the light realm forever. He's saved the world once before, and now he has to deal with everything in MM. By the end of this game he's played with time so much Bill Murry would blush, he's watched people try desperately to avoid there fate over and over again. He helps people even though he knows that in three days time it's not going to mean anything and all his work will be undone again. He even has a taste of god-hood before all is said and done. I'm pretty sure he's as qualified as anybody.
I was under the impression each Link from the Zelda games was a different Link in a different time period.
In this one very specific case, the Zelda timeline is actually pretty solid. From the intro to Majora's Mask:
In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy...
A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend...
Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey...
A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend...
A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends...
Basically, after Link fixed things in Ocarina of Time, he was left alone. He couldn't go back to the Kokiri, Navi left, Zelda went back to the castle, the rest of his friends became sages. He had no family. So he left in search of a friend. (Navi? Maybe Skull Kid? You never really find out.)
Money was never a problem in Majora's Mask. Just turn into a Goron and roll around the field for a while. Duh.
I found that the best way to make cash was to win the Goron Race over and over, then sell the gold dust to the guy at the Curiosity Shop (worked wonders late in the game when you had four to six bottles on you). Either that, or killing the Vulture would also net you 200 rupees at once.
The easiest way to make money is to grab the hundreds and hundreds of free rupees that are just lying around and respawn every single cycle.
I've banked over 1000 in a single round without resorting to "heroic measures"
As someone who grew up with Zelda 1, 2, and LttP, where Link was described or alluded to as a teenager in-game, in-manual, and in-cartoon - it was a real turnoff seeing a Zelda game with Link as a child.
I realize it's a sensitive topic and younger fans of the series don't like their favorite game being alluded to as a "kiddy game", but it's just how it felt to older gamers. I grew up with Zelda being a dark story of a destroyed world with a 16-18 year old losing his "sweet heart" and setting out to save the world. I even enjoyed Awakening because that same Link was used.
I thought the child Link in OoT was a gimmick that introduced enough new gameplay elements to make it worthwhile, but I simply did not agree with the approach of dedicating an entire game to "baby Link".
This is amusing because Majora's Mask is by far the darkest game in the series.
It is amusing that they decided to stick with the atmosphere of the rest of the series (dark, forboding, in need of a hero), but chose to make the protagonist a child. I don't oppose their decision, they needed to hook in a new generation of gamers. It's like the Baby Mario and Baby Peach games. Excellent games and highly critically acclaimed, but they definitely took the series in a new direction with the intent of hooking in a new audience.
It doesn't make Majora's Mask or Baby Mario games bad. Just the opposite - they're GREAT games. I just don't think they should be considered as direct comparisons to 1, 2, LttP, LA, and OoT.
From what I understand Link was a kid in the very first game anyway.
I think he's supposed to be about 17 in AoL and that game is said to be several years after the first one. Look at the artwork of the two games and you can see that.
So if people object to kid Link being wrong, well, he was right at the start. It's like people who claim that The Wind Waker was the first cartoony Zelda, haven't they played A Link To The Past?
In this one very specific case, the Zelda timeline is actually pretty solid. From the intro to Majora's Mask:
In the land of Hyrule, there echoes a legend. A legend held dearly by the Royal Family that tells of a boy...
A boy who, after battling evil and saving Hyrule, crept away from the land that had made him a legend...
Done with the battles he once waged across time, he embarked on a journey. A secret and personal journey...
A journey in search of a beloved and invaluable friend...
A friend with whom he parted ways when he finally fulfilled his heroic destiny and took his place among legends...
Basically, after Link fixed things in Ocarina of Time, he was left alone. He couldn't go back to the Kokiri, Navi left, Zelda went back to the castle, the rest of his friends became sages. He had no family. So he left in search of a friend. (Navi? Maybe Skull Kid? You never really find out.)
It's definitely Navi he's set out to find. You hear a fairy noise after the intro bit you quoted, it's a pretty clear implication.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
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There's a bank dude :?
Man I had so much money stuffed away for whenever I needed it.
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3DS Friend Code: 0404-6826-4588 PM if you add.
I found that the best way to make cash was to win the Goron Race over and over, then sell the gold dust to the guy at the Curiosity Shop (worked wonders late in the game when you had four to six bottles on you). Either that, or killing the Vulture would also net you 200 rupees at once.
There were ways of working around the time limit, but just the fact that you had to work around it at all was a nuisence to me.
Uh..just cause you have plenty of time doesn't mean there's no time limit.
It made it feel like there was actually something at stake, nevermind the fleshing out of the characters it offered
I felt... hn... like I was actually being pressed to accomplish something
Whereas TP and that it just felt like "Well, I guess I'll get around to saving the world from some evil force that... sits there in that castle and looks menacing. But first, gonna play some minigames and do some shopping and hey look a cave"
Well I did play this years ago, I think I might have remembered that incorrectly.
Dragon Quarter is the best BoF game. And this is coming from someone who used to hate it because of how different it is from the other games in the series.
Holy christ did they knock that out of the park.
To be honest the Zelda games since then haven't been able to top it.
I don't have infinite quantities of time, and Dragon Quarters replay system makes me feel like my time is being wasted on arbitrary bullshit to get the full story.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Plus it killed the franchise
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Sometimes silent protagonists seem stupid when interacting with other characters. For example, while I consider it a masterpiece, half-life 2 pissed me off to no end with Gordon's lack of questioning.
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Nintendo's approach is a bit off to me. Link expresses himself plenty through facial expressions and even worse, some NPCs tell us how he is feeling. This doesn't really let the player interject their own thoughts into him. He comes off as a stupid, but lovable mute.
I dislike the silent protagonist because I am not Gordon Freeman or Link. The ways I would react or things I would say are not the same (let alone options for me to choose), and no game is ever going to able to accommodate for all the different types of players. I think it's better to just give the main character some definition.
No, III and IV are tied for best. Those games fucking ruled.
I don't think the "player becomes the silent hero" bit holds water. It's pretty widely accepted in literature that ironically, the more a character is fleshed out and real, the more we empathize with them, no matter how different they are from us. All of a sudden since we can control who the main character stabs, making them a blank slate is supposed to allow us to project?
Let's face it, Link is only silent due to tradition. And I think that it's fine, but Nintendo didn't contextualize it in TP very well. I think part of it is their recent insistence on making Link tote around some "helper" to be his voice.
I realize it's a sensitive topic and younger fans of the series don't like their favorite game being alluded to as a "kiddy game", but it's just how it felt to older gamers. I grew up with Zelda being a dark story of a destroyed world with a 16-18 year old losing his "sweet heart" and setting out to save the world. I even enjoyed Awakening because that same Link was used.
I thought the child Link in OoT was a gimmick that introduced enough new gameplay elements to make it worthwhile, but I simply did not agree with the approach of dedicating an entire game to "baby Link".
This is amusing because Majora's Mask is by far the darkest game in the series.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
What the hell you guys.
Free Moonbase Commander remake @ http://code.google.com/p/tether
But I think it's flat-out impossible for MM to have been "the first game". This game is an instance of developers sitting down and actually thinking about how to surpass the greatest Zelda game ever, and they presented the perfect solution by surpassing the Zelda formula itself. There wouldn't have been anything to improve upon if it weren't for OoT. (Yes, ALttP is very similar, but it's 2D...) Maybe MM could have existed as another game entirely... and then it would probably still be a hidden gem, simply because it's not very accessible. Yeah, that's MM's major weakness. Confusing as heck at the beginning. Little tricks like slowing down time, rupee deposits or the scarecrow song remove most problems people have with the game, but good luck finding them right away. Not to mention general cluelessness right at the start.
...I still want my MM successor, though...
I loved OOT. It will always have a special place in my heart. It did everything right in my book for a jump to 3D.
Majora was a game that I could get lost in. Everything about it was so interesting, and every area felt miles away from the main hub (clock town), especially Ikanya Canyon.
The Stone Tower Temple was a masterpiece in dungeon design; it's absolutely flawless. Nailed every aspect of what makes a dungeon/temple fun and brought that fucker home.
God, what a great game.
No, I don't own a Wii :P
What a great game.
It just bothers me every time I see it. Could be wrong though.
It is amusing that they decided to stick with the atmosphere of the rest of the series (dark, forboding, in need of a hero), but chose to make the protagonist a child. I don't oppose their decision, they needed to hook in a new generation of gamers. It's like the Baby Mario and Baby Peach games. Excellent games and highly critically acclaimed, but they definitely took the series in a new direction with the intent of hooking in a new audience.
It doesn't make Majora's Mask or Baby Mario games bad. Just the opposite - they're GREAT games. I just don't think they should be considered as direct comparisons to 1, 2, LttP, LA, and OoT.
PS4: Voranth
The Nintendo 64 always had the best commercials for their games.
MM is definitely my favorite game in the series. The world is wonderfully fleshed out, the actual game-play oriented bits (dungeons, side questes) are well put together, and the side quests almost all give you a good reward. There are very few games where I empathized with the characters as much as MM, they all felt important and I genuinely cared what happened to them.
As for the complaint about Link being a kid, you have to remember what he has done before. This is the same Link from OoT. Hes seen horrible things, the world nearly destroyed, and just about everybody he new from his childhood ended up being a sage and getting whisked away to the light realm forever. He's saved the world once before, and now he has to deal with everything in MM. By the end of this game he's played with time so much Bill Murry would blush, he's watched people try desperately to avoid there fate over and over again. He helps people even though he knows that in three days time it's not going to mean anything and all his work will be undone again. He even has a taste of god-hood before all is said and done. I'm pretty sure he's as qualified as anybody.
Really I think MM is as close to perfect as Zelda has ever come. The only thing I would add to it would probably be TP's inventory system.
I was under the impression each Link from the Zelda games was a different Link in a different time period.
Certain Links are explicitly the same e.g.
WW/PH/ST
OoT/MM
OoS/OoA
and some are suggested e.g.
LttP/LA
Basically, after Link fixed things in Ocarina of Time, he was left alone. He couldn't go back to the Kokiri, Navi left, Zelda went back to the castle, the rest of his friends became sages. He had no family. So he left in search of a friend. (Navi? Maybe Skull Kid? You never really find out.)
I've banked over 1000 in a single round without resorting to "heroic measures"
From what I understand Link was a kid in the very first game anyway.
I think he's supposed to be about 17 in AoL and that game is said to be several years after the first one. Look at the artwork of the two games and you can see that.
So if people object to kid Link being wrong, well, he was right at the start. It's like people who claim that The Wind Waker was the first cartoony Zelda, haven't they played A Link To The Past?
It's definitely Navi he's set out to find. You hear a fairy noise after the intro bit you quoted, it's a pretty clear implication.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz