Hiya! This being my first post, I will try not to enthuse embarrassingly or insult broad segments of culture, religion, or ethnicity. I'll save that for the after-forum mixer.
I want to track down the email, phone, and letter-sending addresses for the executives of Microsoft and Sony, and maybe some assistance in which executive would be the right one to speak to in each company, about backwards compatibility. I've been trying for weeks to find this information, and it's nowhere. Talking to the general customer service drones does nothing, they don't have any power, and despite their willingness to help and good-naturedness, it's futile. However, finding the contact information is difficult as all hell.
I am of the assumption that, say, Jack Tretton of Sony, would be Jack.Tretton<at-sign>am.sony.com, as "xxx.xxxx@am.sony.com" are the only email addresses I have found, but I'm not entirely sure and don't want to flood a crapload of emails to the wrong people. The Sony and Microsoft exec pages are scrubbed clean of direct contact info, but I feel that these guys need to hear from their customers, directly, who feel strongly about this. I am a collector, and a longtime gamer, and I fear this corporate trend of "Forget last gen games, and move on" will lead to the same situation as the NES/SNES/N64 issue--systems getting hard to find, failing, and even harder to play consistently. I firmly believe that as an art form, games need to continue to be relevant and functional. Sculpture wouldn't be what it is today if, say, Michaelangelo's David crumbled in 10 years. I think that art and culture that is easily accessible, archival, and appreciated long after its time is much more apt to gain respect and permanence than otherwise. For my proof, look at old blues recordings from the 30's, or old silent films being archived, to be enjoyed by anyone. I watched the original Sweeney Todd movie from 1939 just last month. Basically, I'd love to be able to show my grandkids in 30 years the games I loved when I was a kid, without having to pay thousands of dollars to restore old equipment. And I think that if we encourage Backwards Compatibility now, we can set a precident for the industry and make it a staple, and help its longevity and legitimacy.
So, that's the short of it: How do I call/email/snailmail the executives at Sony/Microsoft, and which executives would be appropriate for concerns regarding BC?
There's more, but that was the gist. Here's some more detail if you're wired and awake and care enough:
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Anywho, I have a dream. I have a dream that the games I buy and enjoy today, I will enjoy tomorrow. I have a dream that the 200 xbox games and 450 PS2 games I own will one day function on the current gen iteration of their respective consoles, so that I might imbibe of the artwork and majesty of these gems of the industry in high-def, with wireless name-brand controllers, and maybe, just maybe, have less than four system selectors strung together in a twisted and convoluted mass of wires whose very function begins to bend the laws of physics and probability.
Also, I'd like my family to be able to just play their games and not have to live in fear of the beast the entertainment hive has become.
Now, I understand some of the limitations and costs associated with this dream, and would like to submit a suggestion or two to the honest-to-god executives of both Sony and Microsoft. Sure, I can call their general help lines and talk to people with tenuous grasps of the English language, foreign inflection and improper grammar, yet still insisting their names are those like "Chet", or "Brenda", but I'd like to be able to talk to someone with, I dunno, CLOUT. Power. Mojo, if you will.
Basically, Sony PR dude John Koller and Vice President of Somesuch or Something Something Jack Tretton have been talking to industry insiders for weeks about their braindead decision to stop Backwards Compatibility. Koller cites that "only" 10-20% of those who buy PS3's care about BC, without stopping to consider what percentage of those who have yet to buy one are concerned (hint, it's more than 10-20%). Then he goes on and says, "It's all anyone seems to talk about!" before saying that it's dead forever.
Yes, he says almost a fifth of the owners of his platform, which is running a commendable third place (out of three) care about a feature, so they have wisely decided to give them all the middle finger. Tretton backs this up in other interviews.
Basically, I kind of think each gentleman's cranium is wedged firmly up the other's backside, forming a disturbing version of the snakes-eating-each-other's-tails symbol. What I would like to do is to send an email/letter, or call in person, each of those gentlemen and tell them my views of the issue.
See, I ran a game store for almost a year last year. And of the regular customers, at least a third of them that had yet to buy a PS3, told me they were holding out so they could play their PS2 games. In addition, more than a fair amount of non-knowledgeable customers, when they found out the PS3s were NOT BC, also decided against it. So I'm fairly certain, based on that year and countless forum posts, that BC is, much to Sony's chagrin, a "big deal", and would like to offer them alternatives.
For example: Sony cut out the PS2 hardware to save on production costs. I heard somewhere it was around $5, but I can't remember where. I also read an interview where a Sony person stated they didn't want to "confuse" the customer with too many SKU's. From my count, what with the BC, 60 gig, software BC 20 gig, non-BC 40 gig, non-BC 80 gig, MGS-branded BC 80 gig, new 120 gig, and now the Slim, they've failed in that quest.
But here's the thing: I would gladly pay $50 for a slide-in kit that had the PS2 hardware in it, that allowed BC functionality in the PS3. I understand there are costs associated with it, so I wouldn't mind buying a peripheral or add-on to accomplish it. And making such an add-on would make Sony a tidy profit, and allow most of those who have yet to buy a PS3 a solution. I would like to tell them this.
I would also like to tell them that killing support for BC, and removing access to the fully-functional software emulator after it had been up and running, is a downright insult. You don't tell loyal customers who have sunk thousands of dollars into your games to go sod off, or that they simply aren't getting what they want and they damn well better learn to deal with it. That makes us feel un-appreciated, insulted, and downright angry. You especially don't do this when you're running dead last in the console race.
For Microsoft, I would like to request this: Continue work on the BC engine in place, but go back and add in creative achievements for XB1 games (I'd say 400-500 per), and charge me, I don't know, $10-20 for the package. Get the original creators involved in the achievements, and maybe encourage DLC for those same games, and they stand to make as much if not more money than they do on Xbox Originals purchases.
So, that's the whole spiel. Please let me know what you all think of these ideas, if you have others, etc. I'd just really like to talk to one of these guys and let them know how much BC can mean for them, for me, and for how many other gamers out there, I don't yet know.
Tootles!
Posts
I'm not saying that you shouldn't pursue your dream here, just don't expect to actually make a difference here.
Most people who have a PS3 still have a PS2 kicking around. New PS2's are cheap and plentiful, used are even cheaper and more plentiful. It would cost Sony more to make a hardware addon to the PS3 than it's worth.
I wonder if someone said this to Martin Luther King?
Totally the same situation.
Hahahahahhahahahahahah
edit: it just amazes me that people will basically say "your dream sucks don't bother".
how about just saying "good luck"?
Your dream is admirable (I have NES, SNES, GENESIS, N64, WII, PS2, PS3 games) and I would love to play them all on one box but think of it as A BUSINESS. Instead of offering continued support for their old products, they want you to spend more $$ on the new things.
Because that's not helpful. In response to 'I want to do X' telling them why X is not a feasible goal is a much more useful response.
Sony doesn't care about you, they just want your money.
But Khavall, you say, companies to many things that aren't profit grabs. The Wii is backwards compatible! The 360 is bc with certain games! Certain PS3s are BC! These cost the company empty money!
Ah but how much money do they make in software from last generation, if the new system will play all the games they never tried last generation? And how many people care about BC, so will buy a system based on that? And how much can they hike up the price with BC over the cost of including it?
So then Khavall, you say, it makes sense to include it, no? And so many people care about it that it should be a no brainer, yes? Gee, that's the OP! Surely what these people need is for someone in no way associated with them at all who they have never heard of and who has no clout in the industry to email them and tell them this!
Ah but no, again, while now you're seeing the second layer of depth in the "MAKE MONEY" problem, it goes further. For how many people is the lack of BC the deciding factor for buying or not buying the system? For how many people is BC on a list of factors that they are buying or not buying the system? How many people claim that BC is a factor, but really are interested in a specific genre of games? How many people don't mention BC but their PS2 just broke and they have the money lying around so if they can still play their PS2 games might as well upgrade to a PS3? How much weight does BC have on the people for whom it is one deciding factor? If instead of BC, updated remakes of games were released, how many people would buy those? If certain older games were released for a slightly, moderate, or drastically lowered price for download, how many people would buy them and not care about BC? What about if the download releases also included certain online functionality? What about if they included a simple graphical upgrade? What price points are the best? Will any goodwill from BC translate into dollars, or vice versa?
There are about a billion questions that go into making these sort of decisions, and they have people whose job it is to look at them, study them, and provide their best idea as to the answer. They pay these people to do so, and these people look not at individual voices, which are meaningless, but at large trends.
Ultimately, emailing the supreme commander of Sony and giving him a well-written, heart-felt, beautifully persuasive doctrine on why his company should do what you want will be absolutely meaningless in comparison to data that they gather.
It's not that they have their heads up their asses, it's not that they're stupid, it's not that they're evil, and the fact that they're last in console sales won't change it, their primary motivator is going to be making a profit. It's simply a product of being a business.
That being said, I'm willing to bet that executive's email addresses don't follow traditional naming convention. Furthermore, I highly doubt any executives would read an unsolicited email more than a line long in length.
You're far better off posting a blog about your plight and trying to increase the visibility of that blog. These companies do monitor social media and measure the impact of mentions based upon the visibility of content. If you want to make a splash that is likely your best course of action.
I'm not saying don't try, I mean, squeeky wheel gets the grease and all that..
It's just realistic fact that no one correspondance, no matter how well thought out, no matter how much information is included, no matter how well laid out the business proposition is going to make any major change with any company as large as Microsoft or Sony.
Changes of the caliber described here would require massive outpouring from a massive segment of the game-buying population... and even then, if you're only voting with your voice and not your dollars, chances are, the companies won't care.
And as someone has already stated, every company is making the move to downloadable titles. In twenty or thirty years you'll be able to pay a buck or two (might even be free) and just play these games online/download them.
Also, as a shlub at MS I get 400'ish emails a day. I can't imagine what the higher-ups get,
I recommend to start watching the emulator projects. I once found one that worked great with all my PS1 games (when my PS2 died). I'm guessing folks are working on Xbox 1/PS2 and will move to the last gen when the next comes out.
I'd not write Sony or Microsoft about reviving older hardware generations, but write the game developers of the games I want preserved. Appeal not to their money making sense, but to their feeling that their art is valuable and should be preserved to be appreciated for a long time. If they can't make it happen for older games, ask them how they plan to preserve the games they are making right now.
If you mail something to Sony/MS headquarters addressed to their CEOs, there's actually a mildly decent chance it winds up in their inbox, or at least in the inbox of their assistant (who will probably roundfile it but hey.)
If they do have a firstname.lastname@whatever email address that you get lucky and hit, it's still probably being read by that same assistant, who will still probably roundfile your email, only electronically, so it'll be faster.
Don't even bother trying to get through by phone.
Print up your letter on nice paper and put it in a nice manila envelope, and you have a shot at getting read by either your target, or someone who will at least mention it to your target.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
As gamers, what will it be like for us in 10 years? 20? 30? Are you really comfortable with the stories and immersion that you loved being either 1) Inaccessible or 2)Requiring hundreds if not thousands of dollars in purchases of old equipment that might not work, or 3)Using emulators that don't quite cut it.
Think about it: You can keep incredible CD's (records), movies, and books, to share with friends or family or (in my case) kids. I can show my son the Princes of Amber books by Roger Zelazny, I can have him watch movies like Tank Girl, listen to the music that had an impact on my life. I can watch the same flick that I loved from 30 years ago, and even if the tape/disc is gone, it still EXISTS in a watchable/usable form. Every new disc player, DVD, Blu-ray, etc, still has support for the previous generation, at a slight cost I'd assume, and sales are doing well.
This is not the case with game software that requires proprietary and complicated soft/hardware to replicate. Imagine you couldn't ever play Ico, Shadow of the Collosus, or Psychonauts again. Imagine if you couldn't afford to let your kids play them.
As I've stated, John Koller from Sony said that from their own polls, "Only" 10-20% of those buying a new PS3 listed BC as a big concern. 20% is not a trifiling number, but it's not yet accurate: How many have yet to buy a PS3 because of it? From my experience, it's around 1/3rd, from working at a game retailer, I worked at State Farm (of the 70 people in my unit, 52 were gamers). I saw it most when a customer came in to repair a PS2--If we had a BC PS3, they bought that instead. If it WASN'T BC, they either repaired or replaced their PS2. With a used unit.
That is money lost in future game sales to Sony.
No, I really have no faith in the decision making abilities of executives, having worked at State Farm and read the press releases from Sony, I know that in large companies, crap tends to float. I don't think they're looking beyond their immediate cash flow, which is why I was thinking of ways for them to see that they could make money off BC. What I was saying is this: If a system costs $500 new, but the company wants to cut costs, and removes BC to save $50 and tells us that, if they then sold that hardware separately for $50, people who didn't care about BC save money and $$more new games are sold, and people who DO care about BC get what they want and $$more new games are sold.
To the person who stated they'd never pay $20 for a BC platform, would you rather re-buy your games on XBL/WIIware/PSN? That's more of an insult to me, when I already own two full bookshelves of games to play.
So, the gist of the advice is this: Don't expect too much, snail mail over email, their minds are set.
What I'm trying to do is brainstorm ideas, ways BC can make money. Chief among them is this: PS2 dominated last gen, in large part due to the Backwards Compatibility with PS1 games. It was, at the time, a BIG DEAL. When Sony is doing so poorly now in market saturation, crap like removing BC even though they know "it's all people want to talk about", and kicking out the PSPgo without the ability to transfer UMD games to memory (I don't think that's ever happening either) is LOSING them money, and customers, for good.
Also, I don't think they do a very good job of analyzing social media, from Kotaku to Joystiq to G4tv to a few of Tycho's rants, a LOT of the posts and comments show people wanting BC and viewing it as important for the longevity of the pastime. If their research was that good, why did they seem to ignore all that? If they ignore the advice of the guys who made PAX happen, they aren't paying attention.
So, apparently Sony has done as good a job at hiding SCEA email contacts as I thought they had. I'll try a physical letter at this point, but I WILL try to call them as well. I really don't think the Kollers or Trettons have a clue as to how some gamers feel about this. I feel a good letter or email stating this:
"A BC solution that betters old games, through updates, HD, lets me play all my Sony games on new wireless controllers while utilizing less space on my entertainment center and less "system selectors" makes you money in these ways:
1-Your customers feel appreciated and rewarded, and word of mouth is gold
2-Someone who played multiplayer games will buy new PS3 controllers/peripherals
3-To those with a broken PS2, the BC on PS3 might as well subtract the cost of the new/reparied PS2 from the PS3 cost
4-Interest in previous games drives up sales of sequels by a fair bit
5-The more people are over the hurdle of the new system, the more new games they are likely to purchase. And for those going from PS2 to PS3, access to the online marketplace is going to guarantee some sales."
... would be rather well received.
So, to the basic questions at hand:
1-Any new points I've not thought of?
2-Anyone have their phone numbers/emails?
3-Sorry for the longwindedness, I'm currently reading Douglas Adams' "Hitchhikers Guide" series and my brainwave patterns are starting to harmonize
The minions themselves are also not that helpful.
I know when I set out to get Ponyo to show in my hometown during AnimeIowa (on the opening weekend of ponyo; the theater wasn't going to receive a copy until I changed that), I had to take the phone tour of disney just to find out what department actually negotiates reel distribution. The operators didn't even know what department did it (I later learned the department was called print control, and after several days of calling during lunch I reached the people I needed).
My advice is that switchboard operators know nothing and will never get you where you need to go. Instead, I recommend that you look up a company's public financial statements. From there you can usually get a contact to a secretary at the very least, and if you very politely explain what department you are trying to talk to, they may know the answer.
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My advice is that switchboard operators know nothing and will never get you where you need to go. Instead, I recommend that you look up a company's public financial statements. From there you can usually get a contact to a secretary at the very least, and if you very politely explain what department you are trying to talk to, they may know the answer.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that's the first thing I did. I went to Google Finance, and the contact information for every single executive was the 800-345-SONY number, that was all. Plus, SCEA is not listed separately, it's "SONY" or nothing.
Don't know what happened to the post I made yesterday... how long does it usually take for a mod to approve a post?
And achievements will never come to OXbox games
1- Three times I've posted, and been redirected to a screen which says "your post will appear once it has been approved by a moderator", is that not supposed to happen?
2- Probably not, I'm just trying to think of ways to A) make BC "sale-able" or profitable for the company while adding value at little to no cost to make the purchase worthwhile. These companies don't do anything without clear profit, I'm just trying to think of a compromise. And the idea isn't even mine, a friend came up with it at a Halo party, and all 11 people there (myself included) loved it, so it's either not too far fetched, or living in Missouri has driven us all mad. Could go either way...:winky:
1) Converted into native 360 executables.
2) The achievements would have to be implemented and tested thoroughly.
3) For the games to have achievements they would have to have a rich presence implemented everywhere in the game. That's the thing you see when you look at person and it says something like "Matchmaking - Team Objective"
4)That's a crap ton of QA, testing, regression testing, and other misc costs that would jack up the price of the XBO releases to 40$. At that point it would be more profitable to just remake the game for the 360 from the ground up.
Also the fact that people played those games for all those years with no achievements. Adding achievements will generate maybe what, 100 sales? Not worth the cost and manpower.
Some level of backwards compatibility is available for older media (VHS combos for DVD and DVD for Blu-Ray). Only certain Movies are available for any given format. DVD as the most successful media for movie ever at a high point had 20-25 previously not available on DVD titles released a week. That's 1500 New titles a year. Over the last 13 years thats is only 18k titles or approximately one third of the Major Studio releases over the last 90 years. Howard the Duck only recently got released on DVD. I can't find Second Sight or My Pet Monster.
On PC's You have Steam trying to keep whole libraries of popular studios up to date. You have DLC versions of several games available through all their digital storefronts. Most will force you to repurchase the games to play on the system if you can't use your old media (which in all three systems is available for some to most titles depending on the system). Now Consoles go through the quickest changes and it may only be a decade before Wii games are not playable without DLC versions on a Nitendo system. But its still the exact same model that the the Movie industry is using.
With Nintendo and their Wii it's a different thing.
They have already made their sale.
Nintendo doesn't sell cartridges anymore. They sell online distribution which is cheap. The main thing is that they sell games. If PS3s and 360s suddenly became BC no one would buy more xbox games because they already own them.
Maybe you might see further down the line more downloadable xbox titles. But they aren't going to further flesh out the library.
As much as I would like full BC for everything it's not going to happen. Sony was right when they say it's a feature for new consoles because there are hardly any games to play on the new console.
In regards to movies you need to look at effort vs cost, combo VCR/DVD players cost extra, because they were a combo. Blu-Ray players also play DVDs because the cost to do so is absolutely minimal.
Satans..... hints.....
You are missing my point. When does anybody offer 100% BC or even a guarantee that an object you pay for will work after the hardware for it is unavailable. Where is Nitendo's support N64 games? there isn't outside DLC. Same for everybody else to a degree. Sony dropped even emulation which should have been cheap because it didn't matter and PS2's were and I believe still are available. Where is the VHS support with Blu-ray players, its not there. They want you to by new media, but they need a level of legacy support to make people more willing to swap over.
In that sense the Game industry is actually much nicer about this because its not completely a ploy to make you purchase DLC. Its because The programming from one system to another is so complicated and so system specific its a major undertaking to support it. Sony had include PS1 hardware in the PS2, or Ps2 hardware in the PS3. Emulation was expensive because they had to program for a video card they didn't design. Xbox to Xbox360, Microsoft actually paid for the video hardware chip by chip they didn't own the IP. That means for each game they supported and emulated on the 360 they had to pay licensing to Nvidia. This stuff is amazingly complex in comparison to Movie playback. Cept their support mirrors that of Movie industry.
If you're going to start off with something so directional, please make it clear to whom you are addressing your comments.
As compared to?
also: What?
Microsoft doesn't sell xbox games anymore, they sell 360 games.
Sony doesn't sell CDs anymore, they sell Blu-Ray disks.
I don't see what the media format has to do with backwards compatibility, besides the obvious need for an additional connection to the processing hardware of the game system.
So they might make more games games available, but they're not going to make more games available? A well rounded argument. Did anyone ever really say this? I'd like to see some proof here. Seems to me I would recall Sony telling me that they implemented BC because they weren't making enough games for me to be satisfied with new games exclusively.
This is not a matter of "effort vs cost", IF VCR/DVD combo players did cost much more it would be because they incorporate multiple machines into one unit, additional equipment usually costs more. That said, you can find the same range of units, all the way from chinese factory $20 el cheapo, up to several hundred dollar upscaling etc etc units as you can with vanilla dvd players. Not to mention that, if you're addressing the op, which is unclear, it would seem you skipped right over the part where he said that he doesn't mind paying extra for an additional unit, or add on unit that would enable BC, that is, if your argument that the hardware to read the older format not being integrated costs extra in production, that is.
I think if we boil this whole thing down to it's absolute core the answer is pretty simple, when you purchase any media, in any format, you can't realistically expect it to continue to be available for use without the hardware that supports it.
You wouldn't expect continued support for betamax, laser disk, zip drive, floppy diskette, 8 track, vinyl record, etc etc etc, in your 360, yet all of these are formats for music movies and data, which the 360 is capable (from a processing perspective) of decoding.