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Wherin the cow must head to traffic court...and escapes unscathed!
Thegreatcow
Lord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
Lord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
Ahoy hoy folks!
I find myself in the unenviable position of having to head to traffic court for a traffic violation back on August 30th. I come seeking advice.
A wee bit of background will help I suppose.
******
The weekend where this incident happened, it was the weekend of the "Station" Fire. For those not living in California, it essentially became the largest wildfire in modern California history charring about 150,000 acres. That weekend we nearly got evacuated (came within about 10 houses of our house so yeah, no pressure there!), and suffice to say I was a nervous wreck.
My friends offered to take me to a late night showing of a movie in Old Town Pasadena, so we piled into my car and off we went.
The movie got out pretty late (around 11:30pmish). We were parked in an underground parking garage that was very brightly lit. I turned onto colorado blvd in Oldtown Pasadena (for reference, the place is very brightly lit as well, lots of shops, boutiques, and restaurants it's become sort of super trendy place as of late).
Anyhow, I drove about one block when a police car going in the opposite direction, swung his floodlight directly at me. I didn't understand why he was doing it, but as I was looking around I suddenly saw that I was driving with my lights off.
Sure enough, he 180'd around and pulled me over. He gave me a sarcastic comment of "You know we have headlights for a reason..." and promptly gave me a ticket for driving without lights and to appear in traffic court.
*******
So! Yeah, I've never been to traffic court before and I would deeply appreciate any advice in this matter. I have a couple of questions regarding it as well...
-What exactly do I do when I visit the court for the first time? Do I even have the chance to plea my case or is it just a formality before I have to pay a fine?
-I keep hearing this....well...."rumour" I suppose, that if the cop who actually gave me the ticket to appear, does not appear himself, that the ticket is considered null and void. Is this true or is this just a bunch of bullhockey?
-Assuming worst case scenario and I am found guilty of it as it were, does anyone know roughly what driving without a headlight would cost me in terms of a fine? or can I perhaps get it waived through say traffic school?
Thanks again for any advice folks. I do appreciate it.
I find myself in the unenviable position of having to head to traffic court for a traffic violation back on August 30th. I come seeking advice.
A wee bit of background will help I suppose.
******
The weekend where this incident happened, it was the weekend of the "Station" Fire. For those not living in California, it essentially became the largest wildfire in modern California history charring about 150,000 acres. That weekend we nearly got evacuated (came within about 10 houses of our house so yeah, no pressure there!), and suffice to say I was a nervous wreck.
My friends offered to take me to a late night showing of a movie in Old Town Pasadena, so we piled into my car and off we went.
The movie got out pretty late (around 11:30pmish). We were parked in an underground parking garage that was very brightly lit. I turned onto colorado blvd in Oldtown Pasadena (for reference, the place is very brightly lit as well, lots of shops, boutiques, and restaurants it's become sort of super trendy place as of late).
Anyhow, I drove about one block when a police car going in the opposite direction, swung his floodlight directly at me. I didn't understand why he was doing it, but as I was looking around I suddenly saw that I was driving with my lights off.
Sure enough, he 180'd around and pulled me over. He gave me a sarcastic comment of "You know we have headlights for a reason..." and promptly gave me a ticket for driving without lights and to appear in traffic court.
*******
So! Yeah, I've never been to traffic court before and I would deeply appreciate any advice in this matter. I have a couple of questions regarding it as well...
-What exactly do I do when I visit the court for the first time? Do I even have the chance to plea my case or is it just a formality before I have to pay a fine?
-I keep hearing this....well...."rumour" I suppose, that if the cop who actually gave me the ticket to appear, does not appear himself, that the ticket is considered null and void. Is this true or is this just a bunch of bullhockey?
-Assuming worst case scenario and I am found guilty of it as it were, does anyone know roughly what driving without a headlight would cost me in terms of a fine? or can I perhaps get it waived through say traffic school?
Thanks again for any advice folks. I do appreciate it.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/94579/charcuterie-101-holiday-necromancy-edition/p1
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Thegreatcow on
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Dress like you're going to a job interview - collared shirt, suit and tie if you feel comfortable, nice shoes, et cetera. Go there about an hour before your appointed time. Don't bother trying to get out of it - if you cop to it and ask for a little mercy they'll probably reduce the fine. You'll probably just be in a big group which the DA will go through 1 by 1. I doubt you'll actually see a judge.
Since it's probably a moving violation, see if you're able to do traffic school - you probably can unless you've gone in the last 16 months or something. Do it online if at all possible.
And the thing about cops not showing up is BS - they get paid to go as far as I know, and it's sometimes overtime or whatever.
Good luck and remember to be polite and humble.
Edit - Sorry, I didn't see the last part of your post. You'll pay a fine regardless - my guess would be ballpark $150 plus court costs - but that's a complete guess and seems pretty high when I think about it. Ask them to lower it, whatever it is. Worst thing that will happen is they'll say no.
You'll ALSO do traffic school if possible, but that's in order to avoid getting points on your license and the related insurance hikes.
This is all of course taken with the consideration that IANAL.
I entered my plea by mail, so Jebus may be more correct than I am. :P
I would like to seriously second this. As someone who's dad has been to a lot of court cases in smaller courts (mostly because he is trying to evict someone, and because he never wears a seatbelt), they have no problem in fucking you over in completely illegal ways. My dad had a judge once tell him that even though the law "technically" stated that my dad was in the right, the judge didn't care and was going to rule in favor of the tenant.
Bleagh...here's hoping...
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Thankee for the tip, that's what I'm hoping to do worse comes to worse. The court date is tomorrow so I'll report back with the results. Here's hoping!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Unfortunately the judge does not give a shit about your house nearly burning, no matter how much that would have sucked. It's a court date, not a pity party. Don't bring it up.
You made an honest mistake due to environment, you noticed it as soon as the cop put the spotlight on you "Why is he interested in me? Oh dear, my error." and the cop's probably a dick for citing you for not noticing your lights were off in a fully lit area rather than just saying "Don't fuck up again" and sending you on your way, because lights-out on a vehicle is typically a tipoff to a DUI rather than being a sole offense.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Sadly this happened in California and not only is the state flat broke, but most of the major cities are as well, so the chances of getting the fine reduced may be slim, probably part of the reason he wrote a ticket for it. (Or he was just pissed you weren't drunk.) Definitely do not go in there with a pity story as you won't get far, they've absolutely heard it all. Cop to the mistake and hope for the best is about all you can do.
Must have missed that part.
Show up and pay your fine, citizen.
Can trade TF2 items or whatever else you're interested in. PM me.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
The only excuse I could really see working is that you could make an argument you're more used to driving a car with automatic headlights and that due to the environment at night there you didn't realize your headlights weren't on because of this. But it isn't going to fly, they want the money more than any justice at this point. And the judge will question and trip you up on this tactic unless your car actually has this feature...
Basic idea is that a no contest plea really only matters if there's a chance of civil litigation involved. In as much as you could fight a civil suit on a charge you pleaded no contest to, which you would have a much harder time doing so were you to have pleaded guilty.
Could be wrong on the finer points, IANAL.
I actually did not know that. But regardless, it has happened in traffic court as well. Oregon's seatbelt law used to state that you were exempt if you drove a pickup that weighed more than 8000 lbs. My dad had a judge tell him he didn't care what the law said, he was an idiot for not wearing the seatbelt, and therefore he wouldn't drop the ticket. While the idiocy point is debatable, the judge knowingly ignored a pretty clear exemption the law.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
My dad is a building contractor. I'm pretty positive it applied to him because I know he got pulled over a lot, and almost every time the ticket was thrown out. Not that it matters anymore; I'm pretty sure that exemption has been removed.
I don't know California, but usually on the front of a ticket there is a date to contact them, sometimes you can contact them by phone or most of the time mail in the ticket. On the back is the where you enter your plea. If you entered your plea as guilty then you are required to pay the fine there and you get all your points then and no opportunity to lower the points. From that point if you plead not guilty on a CI (Civil infraction) then you will be contacted later (usually by letter) with an appearance date where you go in front of a Magistrate (basically a judge that only listens to the Prosecutor and is fully willing to give everyone a hard time but for the sake of brevity only handles CI's, some Misdemeanors, and arraignments). The Cop must be present for this and in 21 tickets I only had the cop not show up twice, once because he told me he wasn't coming and once because he just didn't show up. A lot of time the DA will talk to you before the judge is supposed to have you up and will offer a plea agreement (most of the time you still don't plead guilty, but no contest). If you talk to the Judge without a plea agreement expect to get reamed and will end up with the fine and points.
One important missed fact and this might only be for Michigan or states like it. Getting points off your license doesn't help your insurance. I have dealt with several Insurance agencies during my time of consistent moving violations. Once the ticket has been filed into their system whether or not you plead or have the charges reduced or thrown out the fact you were issued a ticket is what the Insurance Agencies will look at and they have much more harsh points system before you reach the point of High Risk (horribly high insurance rates) or un-insurable (only specific high risk sign everyone insurance agencies will take you)
I headed down to the courthouse an hour early just to find a spot and get acquainted with the area. (Holy hell that was a good idea. The line was only about 20 people at first and then swelled to 400 people by the time 8:30am rolled around O_O ). I didn't even see a judge at all!
They funneled us through a line where we went up to some clerks window, we handed over our citations and they basically divided us up between the courtroom and just paying the fine at the window.
I get there and the clerk punches in the citation. Apparently, the cop never actually entered the citation in the system!
So yeah, she informed me that she was giving a proof of appearance at the court and the cop had 1 year from the ticket issuance date to decide to enter it in the system. Given that it's been at least a couple of months, it looks like I'm in the clear!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Or maybe he just forgot.
Either way, there's nothing like catching a break to put you in a good mood.
I was pulled over last weekend and would have received a ticket it I hadn't informed the officer that I'm a volunteer for the same department.
So we get to discussing why we're all here and I'm hearing the rogues gallery of traffic offenders here O_O, I'm talking DUI, suspended license driving, tickets sent to collections etc. Then they get to me:
Guy: "So what're you in here for?"
Me: "Ahhh it's a total bugger of a ticket. I got cited for pulling out of a brightly lit parking lot without my lights on at night"
Guy: "........and?"
Me: "That's it, that's all I got cited for..."
Guy: *Blink**Blink* "Yeah that sounds like a 20$ ticket to me...."
Heh, really puts it in perspective how much worse things can get all things considered
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
On a note related to Slider's post I've always wondered if those bumper stickers you get for donating to the police such and such fund (widows or something) that they always call like twice a year to hound you for, if having that on your car gets you any extra leeway with minor stuff like this.
I mean imagine you're a cop and a guy forgot his headlights for the first block or so in a well lit area and you pull him over but as you approach his car you notice the donation bumper sticker and think, "shit this guy donated $50+ bucks to help other cops out like hell I'm going to be a prick to him over something like this, I'll just give him a firm warning."
Probably thinking of the 1199 Foundation. They "allegedly" put a stop to that.
I have one of those firefighter stickers on my truck....and my tabs expired last month. Never been pulled over in my truck. Ironically, when I mentioned being pulled over last weekend it was while driving a different automobile.
Looks like you're in California. I have a friend who is an officer in Pasadena.
Nice! Yeah it was kinda hilarious in a sense. I took everyone's advice and dressed in a good suit and tie and good lord did I feel overdressed. I saw people in sweatpants and sports jackets and in various stages of hygene. Eeesh, I know now what it is to smell a urine odor so powerful it literally parts the hallway with its miasma.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
Our Sheriff's office is located in the same building as the courthouse. I wanted to obtain information on how to apply to be a volunteer. As soon as I entered the building, the smells I received could only be described as the collective aromas from many years of mass human suffering.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
I had one ticket where the police officer handed me the ticket and I implied that I was going to end up fighting it. Some time between then and when I went to court (having sent my ticket in as pleading not guilty), the officer had changed the ticket from a 50 in a 40 (2 points) to impeding traffic (No points).
Outside those little instant parking ticket handhelds I doubt the is any CI or even Misdemeanor that the Cop can't delete or remove from the system. They are the witnesses they can change their stories.