I will probably be branded as a heretic for what I'm about to say, but I feel like saying it anyway. But before I do, I will preface my statement with some disclaimers.
First of all, I have been enjoying the overall experience of Brutal Legend. I have two primary functions that this game was supposed to fulfill: Jack Black humor and heavy metal. Both of these have been delivered quite nicely. I find the game to be quite funny and entertaining, and the music is rad as hell.
The second thing I'd like to say as a disclaimer is that I've enjoyed the overall experience with the game and I'm glad I bought it.
Ok. Here it goes.
This game feels like it has "Spore Syndrome" to me. Spore, as I'm sure you all know, is a game that is a plethora of games all bundled into one package. But the problem with Spore is that none of its individual parts are all that strong. Each minigame within the whole is not a very satisfying experience. I'm getting a similar vibe from Brutal Legend.
The car parts are not very satisfying as a driving game. The Deuce handles poorly, even fully upgraded, and the controls just aren't sufficient for a true driving game. All of the races against the Squealer were mega aggravating to me, because of a ton of little things. I have sworn a whole lot during the races, and thankfully I am finished with them now.
Similarly, I find the controls in the RTS sections to be clunky and completely insufficient to enable any sort of finesse or real strategy. Basically the "rts" portion is just your clump of dudes versus their clump of dudes. There's practically no micro management and its nearly impossible to split your force and execute maneuvers such as flanking, pincers, or anything else really. If you've ever watched a bunch of kindergartners play soccer before, you might be familiar with the term "herd ball." When I play the stage battles in Brutal Legend, I feel like I'm playing herd ball. It just isn't a very fulfilling experience.
Finally, the Hack & Slash portion of the game is similarly unfullfilling. Combos are very basic and simple, and it just isn't possible to attain any sort of real finesse like you can in other action games such as Ninja Gaiden, God of War, or even the brawling parts of Batman Arkham. I feel like I'm playing a very watered down hack and slash game with practically no depth at all.
As I started, I still enjoy this game for the humor and the metal. But on a gameplay level, it has let me down. I wish Tim Schafer would have picked just one game mode and built the game around that, rather than making this game into "Spore: The Metal Edition."
Maaaan. Freed all the bound serpents, and the grand prize is just the achievement. That's such BS! You should get something nifty, like flight outside of stage battles or something.
Edit: Also, what the heck is up with the Beast Master achievement?
I thought I did ride everything. Maybe it needs to be within one "life"?
Edit: Action RTS is a subgenre that works, but does not work like an RTS. It's not a replacement for Starcraft, and "micro" doesn't really apply. I like it, because I have the opportunity to play a new game in this genre about once every decade.
I will probably be branded as a heretic for what I'm about to say, but I feel like saying it anyway. But before I do, I will preface my statement with some disclaimers.
First of all, I have been enjoying the overall experience of Brutal Legend. I have two primary functions that this game was supposed to fulfill: Jack Black humor and heavy metal. Both of these have been delivered quite nicely. I find the game to be quite funny and entertaining, and the music is rad as hell.
The second thing I'd like to say as a disclaimer is that I've enjoyed the overall experience with the game and I'm glad I bought it.
Ok. Here it goes.
This game feels like it has "Spore Syndrome" to me. Spore, as I'm sure you all know, is a game that is a plethora of games all bundled into one package. But the problem with Spore is that none of its individual parts are all that strong. Each minigame within the whole is not a very satisfying experience. I'm getting a similar vibe from Brutal Legend.
The car parts are not very satisfying as a driving game. The Deuce handles poorly, even fully upgraded, and the controls just aren't sufficient for a true driving game. All of the races against the Squealer were mega aggravating to me, because of a ton of little things. I have sworn a whole lot during the races, and thankfully I am finished with them now.
Similarly, I find the controls in the RTS sections to be clunky and completely insufficient to enable any sort of finesse or real strategy. Basically the "rts" portion is just your clump of dudes versus their clump of dudes. There's practically no micro management and its nearly impossible to split your force and execute maneuvers such as flanking, pincers, or anything else really. If you've ever watched a bunch of kindergartners play soccer before, you might be familiar with the term "herd ball." When I play the stage battles in Brutal Legend, I feel like I'm playing herd ball. It just isn't a very fulfilling experience.
Finally, the Hack & Slash portion of the game is similarly unfullfilling. Combos are very basic and simple, and it just isn't possible to attain any sort of real finesse like you can in other action games such as Ninja Gaiden, God of War, or even the brawling parts of Batman Arkham. I feel like I'm playing a very watered down hack and slash game with practically no depth at all.
As I started, I still enjoy this game for the humor and the metal. But on a gameplay level, it has let me down. I wish Tim Schafer would have picked just one game mode and built the game around that, rather than making this game into "Spore: The Metal Edition."
I'm going to have to agree with you. The game wants to be all things, but does it all poorly. Been a long time Tim Schaefer fan and while I did enjoy the game, I found the overall experience lacking. I liked the concept, the characters and the whole metal fantasy realm which was created but found the combat unsatisfying and the RTS-lite stage battles frustrating. It probably doesn't help that I'm not a fan of the RTS genre at all so having to endure what felt like shoe-horned RTS battles in an open-world 3rd person adventure took getting used to.
The battles just felt kludgy and disorganized to me. Being able to fly around and land wherever you like to participate in the battle was cool, but directing troops and organizing some sort of offensive just didn't jive with me. I found myself just wanting to get the RTS stage battles over with ASAP just to see what would happen next story-wise. Those sections just felt like a chore. And speaking of which, the ending felt extremely rushed. I was cruising along, gripped by the plot and the characters only to come crashing into a sudden wall of an ending. The side missions are also unnecessary filler.
Not being a fan of any type of RTS, my opinion is definitely skewed in one direction, so it shouldn't be taken as a general slam of the rest of the game, which was good. Loved the soundtrack, art style and voice work. It just all felt like a hodge-podge of ideas that either wasn't fully polished or just didn't flow with other parts of the game. If the characters and story, all soaked in an unabashed love and reverence of all things metal, weren't there I could have easily waited till this hit the bargain bin.
I found the overall experience rather larger than the sum of its parts. I enjoyed the hacking and, indeed, even the slashing, but I was not so fond of the whole RTS structure. I do, however, feel strongly that the art direction, environments and the pure oozing of style in every last detail of the game more than makes up for the less strong parts. I've spent some time with it now, the initial thrill I think has worn off and I'm still willing to say that this is one of the best times I've had with a game this year.
I really wouldn't go as far as to deem it in the same category as Spore in entertainment within the minigames, but I do see where you're coming from, of course. The guitar hero-esque solos don't do anything for me beside the initial novelty value. If I can just select stuff with that wheel and then Eddie would just solo, it would be spot-on for me. Schafer likes his collectathon thing too and I'm not going to do it, so I'm not too bothered.
I would say it's the exact same feelings I have about Psychonauts, except I think the stylization of the entire experience is much stronger within Brutal Legend. To me, it's a case where the design of the game trumps the actual gameplay. Maybe I'm a shallow man who'll gladly take style over substance, but man.. that style sure is something.
Similarly, I find the controls in the RTS sections to be clunky and completely insufficient to enable any sort of finesse or real strategy. Basically the "rts" portion is just your clump of dudes versus their clump of dudes. There's practically no micro management and its nearly impossible to split your force and execute maneuvers such as flanking, pincers, or anything else really. If you've ever watched a bunch of kindergartners play soccer before, you might be familiar with the term "herd ball." When I play the stage battles in Brutal Legend, I feel like I'm playing herd ball. It just isn't a very fulfilling experience.
From everything Tim Schafer's been saying, I get the feeling that this is exactly how he wanted the Stage Battles to play out. Just massive army vs. massive army going at it, with the heroes using their solos and team-up moves to try to force the melee one way or the other. That's what I think of when I hear "Don't play it like an RTS."
Rocketlex on
While you were asleep, your windows told me all your secrets.
Similarly, I find the controls in the RTS sections to be clunky and completely insufficient to enable any sort of finesse or real strategy. Basically the "rts" portion is just your clump of dudes versus their clump of dudes. There's practically no micro management and its nearly impossible to split your force and execute maneuvers such as flanking, pincers, or anything else really. If you've ever watched a bunch of kindergartners play soccer before, you might be familiar with the term "herd ball." When I play the stage battles in Brutal Legend, I feel like I'm playing herd ball. It just isn't a very fulfilling experience.
From everything Tim Schafer's been saying, I get the feeling that this is exactly how he wanted the Stage Battles to play out. Just massive army vs. massive army going at it, with the heroes using their solos and team-up moves to try to force the melee one way or the other. That's what I think of when I hear "Don't play it like an RTS."
Really, what I interpret from him is that "The most powerful unit is YOU."
The problem is, with multiple strategic points (i.e. multiple resource nodes), it would be nice to be able to have a little more control over your armies than you do. Split your forces, attack on multiple fronts. Sure, maybe Tim wants people to just smash their armies into each other in a big mass of bodies, but that style of play lacks the depth and subtlety to keep it fresh and interesting past the first two or three times you do it.
If every battle is always the same (which it pretty much is), the game will grow stale very quickly. In real RTS's, there's enough depth and variety that people are able to develop a meta-game and create a variety of strategies and playstyles.
Brutal Legend just doesn't have enough control or depth to allow for any sort of meta-game to develop. By watering it down as much as he did, Tim Schafer pretty much put the nail in the coffin with the very nature of the game.
Hey, I'm up on multiplayer (after just finishing single player) and if anyone feels like jumping into some matches with me, go ahead. Add Spunkrake to the player list, if you would.
npreecs on
Xbox Live: Spunkrake -- Looking to build a friend list!
The problem is, with multiple strategic points (i.e. multiple resource nodes), it would be nice to be able to have a little more control over your armies than you do. Split your forces, attack on multiple fronts. Sure, maybe Tim wants people to just smash their armies into each other in a big mass of bodies, but that style of play lacks the depth and subtlety to keep it fresh and interesting past the first two or three times you do it.
I think this is because you're still thinking of it in terms of "strategy game" instead of "action game."
Rocketlex on
While you were asleep, your windows told me all your secrets.
The problem is, with multiple strategic points (i.e. multiple resource nodes), it would be nice to be able to have a little more control over your armies than you do. Split your forces, attack on multiple fronts. Sure, maybe Tim wants people to just smash their armies into each other in a big mass of bodies, but that style of play lacks the depth and subtlety to keep it fresh and interesting past the first two or three times you do it.
If every battle is always the same (which it pretty much is), the game will grow stale very quickly. In real RTS's, there's enough depth and variety that people are able to develop a meta-game and create a variety of strategies and playstyles.
Brutal Legend just doesn't have enough control or depth to allow for any sort of meta-game to develop. By watering it down as much as he did, Tim Schafer pretty much put the nail in the coffin with the very nature of the game.
There are a couple of things I do to maintain control of my army.
In the beginning of the game, I pick a choke/resource point, set the beacon, and wait by my base for the first units I make, and I send them to that. I make it my top priority.
When I'm done with that, I should then have enough resources for my next batch of units. I fly home and set a new beacon for a new area to send them to.
For my final batch, I set the summon flag to create a key rally point for mid to late game. If there is a big fight, or resource in danger, all I have to do is fly to the area and cast Rally Army*. When the fight is over, I put the beacon (but not the flag) in a new place. I feel I have just the right amount of control over my army.
*Rally Army does have a homage to Overlord. Casting it makes the same horn noise
I've got a quick question: I rented the game about a day or so ago, and I started ploughing through it. When I got to the later levels (The big snowy area, the jungle) I decided that I would go back to the side quests once there was a suitable pause in the story. Unfortunately, there never really was a suitable pause where I could just screw around and explore, and now I'm fighting Debiculous (who I assume is the end boss). So was I supposed to backtrack in the middle of the story to go do the side quests?
Pablo the Penguin on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
I've got a quick question: I rented the game about a day or so ago, and I started ploughing through it. When I got to the later levels (The big snowy area, the jungle) I decided that I would go back to the side quests once there was a suitable pause in the story. Unfortunately, there never really was a suitable pause where I could just screw around and explore, and now I'm fighting Debiculous (who I assume is the end boss). So was I supposed to backtrack in the middle of the story to go do the side quests?
You can do them after you beat the game if you wish.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
I've got a quick question: I rented the game about a day or so ago, and I started ploughing through it. When I got to the later levels (The big snowy area, the jungle) I decided that I would go back to the side quests once there was a suitable pause in the story. Unfortunately, there never really was a suitable pause where I could just screw around and explore, and now I'm fighting Debiculous (who I assume is the end boss). So was I supposed to backtrack in the middle of the story to go do the side quests?
Yeah the pacing for the side stuff is pretty poor. You can easily beat the game without it though.
How do you win a race? I upgraded my car and still get my ass kicked pretty bad.
Fizban140 on
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
Turbo a lot. There are some points with the rally mark where it moves back far enough you can turbo and not have to worry about it moving the mark on you.
TexiKen on
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QuirkyLittleTyrantA Mug Featuring Pichu On A CloudRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Super massive spoiler question:
So was Eddie's conception really a tremendously evil ultra wing-and-a-prayer plan by Securia? Doviculus seems to indicate that it was, but jeeze, that is one hell of a complex plan.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
Turbo a lot. There are some points with the rally mark where it moves back far enough you can turbo and not have to worry about it moving the mark on you.
Pretty much this. For every race except the last one, I just generally turbo'd on cooldown (the cooldown is ~4 seconds) unless I knew there was a big turn coming up.
The Littlest Ion on
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
The last race was a bitch, because there's so many objects like bridge posts that with just a tap will cost you the race. You have to take it slow in the beginning then boost to the max at the end.
TexiKen on
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AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
So was Eddie's conception really a tremendously evil ultra wing-and-a-prayer plan by Securia? Doviculus seems to indicate that it was, but jeeze, that is one hell of a complex plan.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
I imagine it went down like this. Riggnarok chases after Sekuria(sp?) through a time portal or what-have-you. They both arrive in the past, but are basically strangers in a strange land. They don't understand our world and really only have each other (former enemies) to rely on. (that part is a fairly common theme in movies, tv shows, books, and so on.)
Depending on how hot Sekuria was (I imagine she must have been fairly human looking or able to look human to blend in our time), Riggnarok and her fall in love, have a kid, and really had no intention (or maybe no means) of going back to their own time.
Eddie going to the future was simply a convenient accident and not part of her plan.
Though I haven't found all the Legends yet, so maybe those answer the questions.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
0
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
Honestly, this is the first open world game I've played where I've really enjoyed roaming the world. I like how the Deuce handles (I'm not looking for a racing simulation in this game), and the secrets are so liberally placed around the world that even if you don't find one you actually are looking for, you'll still find something (while looking for bound dragons last night I found a ton of hidden metal (lol)).
So was Eddie's conception really a tremendously evil ultra wing-and-a-prayer plan by Securia? Doviculus seems to indicate that it was, but jeeze, that is one hell of a complex plan.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
I imagine it went down like this. Riggnarok chases after Sekuria(sp?) through a time portal or what-have-you. They both arrive in the past, but are basically strangers in a strange land. They don't understand our world and really only have each other (former enemies) to rely on. (that part is a fairly common theme in movies, tv shows, books, and so on.)
Depending on how hot Sekuria was (I imagine she must have been fairly human looking or able to look human to blend in our time), Riggnarok and her fall in love, have a kid, and really had no intention (or maybe no means) of going back to their own time.
Eddie going to the future was simply a convenient accident and not part of her plan.
Though I haven't found all the Legends yet, so maybe those answer the questions.
Nope, according to the legends
Succoria was incredibly depressed because they were in the future and the humans had won. So she just kind of wallowed in self-pity in a cave. Riggnarock felt pity for her and took care of her and eventually fell in love with her. God knows why.
So was Eddie's conception really a tremendously evil ultra wing-and-a-prayer plan by Securia? Doviculus seems to indicate that it was, but jeeze, that is one hell of a complex plan.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
I imagine it went down like this. Riggnarok chases after Sekuria(sp?) through a time portal or what-have-you. They both arrive in the past, but are basically strangers in a strange land. They don't understand our world and really only have each other (former enemies) to rely on. (that part is a fairly common theme in movies, tv shows, books, and so on.)
Depending on how hot Sekuria was (I imagine she must have been fairly human looking or able to look human to blend in our time), Riggnarok and her fall in love, have a kid, and really had no intention (or maybe no means) of going back to their own time.
Eddie going to the future was simply a convenient accident and not part of her plan.
Though I haven't found all the Legends yet, so maybe those answer the questions.
Nope, according to the legends
Succoria was incredibly depressed because they were in the future and the humans had won. So she just kind of wallowed in self-pity in a cave. Riggnarock felt pity for her and took care of her and eventually fell in love with her. God knows why.
She must've looked really hot depressed. I thought Ophelia looked hotter in her evil version than her regular human one.
spigot on
0
AxenMy avatar is Excalibur.Yes, the sword.Registered Userregular
So was Eddie's conception really a tremendously evil ultra wing-and-a-prayer plan by Securia? Doviculus seems to indicate that it was, but jeeze, that is one hell of a complex plan.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
I imagine it went down like this. Riggnarok chases after Sekuria(sp?) through a time portal or what-have-you. They both arrive in the past, but are basically strangers in a strange land. They don't understand our world and really only have each other (former enemies) to rely on. (that part is a fairly common theme in movies, tv shows, books, and so on.)
Depending on how hot Sekuria was (I imagine she must have been fairly human looking or able to look human to blend in our time), Riggnarok and her fall in love, have a kid, and really had no intention (or maybe no means) of going back to their own time.
Eddie going to the future was simply a convenient accident and not part of her plan.
Though I haven't found all the Legends yet, so maybe those answer the questions.
Nope, according to the legends
Succoria was incredibly depressed because they were in the future and the humans had won. So she just kind of wallowed in self-pity in a cave. Riggnarock felt pity for her and took care of her and eventually fell in love with her. God knows why.
She must've looked really hot depressed. I thought Ophelia looked hotter in her evil version than her regular human one.
Ah well, carry on then .
Evil Ophelia was hot indeed. Though I prefer normal Ophelia since she is so. . . well normal looking which is pretty rare in video game chicks.
Axen on
A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
Honestly, this is the first open world game I've played where I've really enjoyed roaming the world. I like how the Deuce handles (I'm not looking for a racing simulation in this game), and the secrets are so liberally placed around the world that even if you don't find one you actually are looking for, you'll still find something (while looking for bound dragons last night I found a ton of hidden metal (lol)).
This.
When just hearing about the game, I was worried that the open world would be way too sparse and would just serve as an oversized level hub, but it was handled really well. The open world roaming reminds me a lot of Legend of Zelda in the way that little secrets are crammed into every corner.
Rocketlex on
While you were asleep, your windows told me all your secrets.
Oh man, JB and KG together, and Eddie yelling "TEAMWORK!" just makes me wish they had more references to Tenacious D. "That's fucking teamwork!"
edit: Man, I gotta remember that the big fist guys aren't enemies anymore. Keep trying to kill them.
double edit: Okay, the least they could do is have the characters ask me for a ride to the missions. They keep leaving, on foot mind you, and beating me there well ahead of time.
In response to "Spore Syndrome" I'd have to agree with the condition that while these elements were not executed with the perfection of a single-genre incarnation they are no less enjoyable, and like Prince of Persia I have no qualms about shelling out the requisite $50.
In response to "Spore Syndrome" I'd have to agree with the condition that while these elements were not executed with the perfection of a single-genre incarnation they are no less enjoyable, and like Prince of Persia I have no qualms about shelling out the requisite $50.
You only had to pay $50? Lucky bastard. Up here in Canada (well, in BC at least) it's ~$80. =(
The Littlest Ion on
0
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
In response to "Spore Syndrome" I'd have to agree with the condition that while these elements were not executed with the perfection of a single-genre incarnation they are no less enjoyable, and like Prince of Persia I have no qualms about shelling out the requisite $50.
You only had to pay $50? Lucky bastard. Up here in Canada (well, in BC at least) it's ~$80. =(
My goodness. My condolences to ye Canucks. Perhaps you could cross South of the border to make a quick purchase?
In response to "Spore Syndrome" I'd have to agree with the condition that while these elements were not executed with the perfection of a single-genre incarnation they are no less enjoyable, and like Prince of Persia I have no qualms about shelling out the requisite $50.
You only had to pay $50? Lucky bastard. Up here in Canada (well, in BC at least) it's ~$80. =(
84 tax in in NS.
coutts on
Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
Technically I got Brutal Legend for free. Anyway, I'm stuck between a rock in the Deuce. Not having the ability to jump or even fly outside of battles is sort of screwing me now.
Technically I got Brutal Legend for free. Anyway, I'm stuck between a rock in the Deuce. Not having the ability to jump or even fly outside of battles is sort of screwing me now.
Honestly, this is the first open world game I've played where I've really enjoyed roaming the world. I like how the Deuce handles (I'm not looking for a racing simulation in this game), and the secrets are so liberally placed around the world that even if you don't find one you actually are looking for, you'll still find something (while looking for bound dragons last night I found a ton of hidden metal (lol)).
So much. I'd like to add that one of the great things about this game is that everywhere you go, there's something cool to see. Far too many open world games just tend to look the same everywhere you go. but the highly recognisable landmarks in Brutal Legend really amplify the sense of awesomeness.
A side effect of the landmarks is that mental navigation becomes really easy. After playing through GTA4, I still couldn't find my way around the city without using the GPS, due to the rather cookie-cutter design of most locations. In Brutal Legend, however, after driving around the island once I could instantly tell where I was just by looking at my surroundings.
On the topic of getting stuck in rocks, try getting out of the Deuce and summoning her. It will usually place you away from the rocks.
Posts
emilvisti on xbl.
First of all, I have been enjoying the overall experience of Brutal Legend. I have two primary functions that this game was supposed to fulfill: Jack Black humor and heavy metal. Both of these have been delivered quite nicely. I find the game to be quite funny and entertaining, and the music is rad as hell.
The second thing I'd like to say as a disclaimer is that I've enjoyed the overall experience with the game and I'm glad I bought it.
Ok. Here it goes.
This game feels like it has "Spore Syndrome" to me. Spore, as I'm sure you all know, is a game that is a plethora of games all bundled into one package. But the problem with Spore is that none of its individual parts are all that strong. Each minigame within the whole is not a very satisfying experience. I'm getting a similar vibe from Brutal Legend.
The car parts are not very satisfying as a driving game. The Deuce handles poorly, even fully upgraded, and the controls just aren't sufficient for a true driving game. All of the races against the Squealer were mega aggravating to me, because of a ton of little things. I have sworn a whole lot during the races, and thankfully I am finished with them now.
Similarly, I find the controls in the RTS sections to be clunky and completely insufficient to enable any sort of finesse or real strategy. Basically the "rts" portion is just your clump of dudes versus their clump of dudes. There's practically no micro management and its nearly impossible to split your force and execute maneuvers such as flanking, pincers, or anything else really. If you've ever watched a bunch of kindergartners play soccer before, you might be familiar with the term "herd ball." When I play the stage battles in Brutal Legend, I feel like I'm playing herd ball. It just isn't a very fulfilling experience.
Finally, the Hack & Slash portion of the game is similarly unfullfilling. Combos are very basic and simple, and it just isn't possible to attain any sort of real finesse like you can in other action games such as Ninja Gaiden, God of War, or even the brawling parts of Batman Arkham. I feel like I'm playing a very watered down hack and slash game with practically no depth at all.
As I started, I still enjoy this game for the humor and the metal. But on a gameplay level, it has let me down. I wish Tim Schafer would have picked just one game mode and built the game around that, rather than making this game into "Spore: The Metal Edition."
Edit: Also, what the heck is up with the Beast Master achievement?
I thought I did ride everything. Maybe it needs to be within one "life"?
Edit: Action RTS is a subgenre that works, but does not work like an RTS. It's not a replacement for Starcraft, and "micro" doesn't really apply. I like it, because I have the opportunity to play a new game in this genre about once every decade.
I'm going to have to agree with you. The game wants to be all things, but does it all poorly. Been a long time Tim Schaefer fan and while I did enjoy the game, I found the overall experience lacking. I liked the concept, the characters and the whole metal fantasy realm which was created but found the combat unsatisfying and the RTS-lite stage battles frustrating. It probably doesn't help that I'm not a fan of the RTS genre at all so having to endure what felt like shoe-horned RTS battles in an open-world 3rd person adventure took getting used to.
The battles just felt kludgy and disorganized to me. Being able to fly around and land wherever you like to participate in the battle was cool, but directing troops and organizing some sort of offensive just didn't jive with me. I found myself just wanting to get the RTS stage battles over with ASAP just to see what would happen next story-wise. Those sections just felt like a chore. And speaking of which, the ending felt extremely rushed. I was cruising along, gripped by the plot and the characters only to come crashing into a sudden wall of an ending. The side missions are also unnecessary filler.
Not being a fan of any type of RTS, my opinion is definitely skewed in one direction, so it shouldn't be taken as a general slam of the rest of the game, which was good. Loved the soundtrack, art style and voice work. It just all felt like a hodge-podge of ideas that either wasn't fully polished or just didn't flow with other parts of the game. If the characters and story, all soaked in an unabashed love and reverence of all things metal, weren't there I could have easily waited till this hit the bargain bin.
I really wouldn't go as far as to deem it in the same category as Spore in entertainment within the minigames, but I do see where you're coming from, of course. The guitar hero-esque solos don't do anything for me beside the initial novelty value. If I can just select stuff with that wheel and then Eddie would just solo, it would be spot-on for me. Schafer likes his collectathon thing too and I'm not going to do it, so I'm not too bothered.
I would say it's the exact same feelings I have about Psychonauts, except I think the stylization of the entire experience is much stronger within Brutal Legend. To me, it's a case where the design of the game trumps the actual gameplay. Maybe I'm a shallow man who'll gladly take style over substance, but man.. that style sure is something.
From everything Tim Schafer's been saying, I get the feeling that this is exactly how he wanted the Stage Battles to play out. Just massive army vs. massive army going at it, with the heroes using their solos and team-up moves to try to force the melee one way or the other. That's what I think of when I hear "Don't play it like an RTS."
Really, what I interpret from him is that "The most powerful unit is YOU."
If every battle is always the same (which it pretty much is), the game will grow stale very quickly. In real RTS's, there's enough depth and variety that people are able to develop a meta-game and create a variety of strategies and playstyles.
Brutal Legend just doesn't have enough control or depth to allow for any sort of meta-game to develop. By watering it down as much as he did, Tim Schafer pretty much put the nail in the coffin with the very nature of the game.
I think this is because you're still thinking of it in terms of "strategy game" instead of "action game."
While I enjoyed my playthrough, I can't recommend this game at full price. Unless the multiplayer is absolutely killer.
This is the definition of an awesome rent game.
There are a couple of things I do to maintain control of my army.
In the beginning of the game, I pick a choke/resource point, set the beacon, and wait by my base for the first units I make, and I send them to that. I make it my top priority.
When I'm done with that, I should then have enough resources for my next batch of units. I fly home and set a new beacon for a new area to send them to.
For my final batch, I set the summon flag to create a key rally point for mid to late game. If there is a big fight, or resource in danger, all I have to do is fly to the area and cast Rally Army*. When the fight is over, I put the beacon (but not the flag) in a new place. I feel I have just the right amount of control over my army.
*Rally Army does have a homage to Overlord. Casting it makes the same horn noise
You can do them after you beat the game if you wish.
Yeah the pacing for the side stuff is pretty poor. You can easily beat the game without it though.
"When I get to the future, I'll become so depressed that the great human warrior, who unbeknownst to be will have hitched a time-ride, will take such pity on me we will have hot human-demon sex, resulting in a badass child that will come back to the Age of Metal and use his knowledge of roadie-ing that he will of course obtain to become the greatest warrior ever and subsequently spread this knowledge to the rest of the Tainted Coil! It's foolproof!"
And Eddie's dad was weird. "Guess I'll just knock up this demon chick while we're both here in the future!" Really, dude? Really?
Steam: ZappRowsdower
Pretty much this. For every race except the last one, I just generally turbo'd on cooldown (the cooldown is ~4 seconds) unless I knew there was a big turn coming up.
Depending on how hot Sekuria was (I imagine she must have been fairly human looking or able to look human to blend in our time), Riggnarok and her fall in love, have a kid, and really had no intention (or maybe no means) of going back to their own time.
Eddie going to the future was simply a convenient accident and not part of her plan.
Though I haven't found all the Legends yet, so maybe those answer the questions.
Nope, according to the legends
Ah well, carry on then
This.
When just hearing about the game, I was worried that the open world would be way too sparse and would just serve as an oversized level hub, but it was handled really well. The open world roaming reminds me a lot of Legend of Zelda in the way that little secrets are crammed into every corner.
edit: Man, I gotta remember that the big fist guys aren't enemies anymore. Keep trying to kill them.
double edit: Okay, the least they could do is have the characters ask me for a ride to the missions. They keep leaving, on foot mind you, and beating me there well ahead of time.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
Sometimes they are. While cruising around in the Deuce last night I had one come up and try to punch me.
My goodness. My condolences to ye Canucks. Perhaps you could cross South of the border to make a quick purchase?
84 tax in in NS.
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
happened to me once.
"load checkpoint" is the only real way out.
I haven't bought any console games since Wii Sports Resort, but if that's the way things are I don't think I could afford HD gaming anyways.
So much. I'd like to add that one of the great things about this game is that everywhere you go, there's something cool to see. Far too many open world games just tend to look the same everywhere you go. but the highly recognisable landmarks in Brutal Legend really amplify the sense of awesomeness.
A side effect of the landmarks is that mental navigation becomes really easy. After playing through GTA4, I still couldn't find my way around the city without using the GPS, due to the rather cookie-cutter design of most locations. In Brutal Legend, however, after driving around the island once I could instantly tell where I was just by looking at my surroundings.
On the topic of getting stuck in rocks, try getting out of the Deuce and summoning her. It will usually place you away from the rocks.