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[Game On] Civilization 4

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Posts

  • StuffGuyStuffGuy Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    I just played a warlords game where my military unit had a 99.8 chance to win. And lost.

    My mind was destroyed

    In the game I played last night, I had this stack of decent, high-level units - Berserkers (Viking Macemen), Crossbowmen, Trebuchets with Muskets and Cannons on the way - And one chariot. Yes, one hilarious chariot. I'd always save him as the last guy to attack, when the odds for him were above 95%. He was basically the medic of my stack, and it was kinda funny to have him attack heavily-damaged crossbowmen in the face.

    Oh, and does it help to have multiple units with that +10% health per turn buff? Or is one sufficient?

    Medic doesn't stack, however the units in adjacent stacks from medic II will stack with medic I, so if you split your units into multiple stacks you can get a boost.

    StuffGuy on
  • chipmanchipman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    chipman on
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  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Melkster wrote: »
    12 hours is a long game for you?

    What difficulty are you playing on?

    Against how many computers?

    Well... yes. Cheiftan. And there were 6 opponents - three on my starting continent, one on another (Americans), two on another. I destroyed all the ones on my Island, plus America to win. I went to sleep at 4:30 am.

    I always play on the biggest map (sadly, I had to drop a recent Rise of Mankind game when it would crash on its extra extra large map) and I disregard points and victories entirely - my goal is always to conquer the world, even if it takes me til 3000 AD to do it. Which I prefer anyways, I like tanks more than pikemen. Also my OCDness on cities needing to be near perfect before dropping buildings to start making soldiers.

    This usually results in my games taking about a month for me to play. Even so, I rarely actually conquer the world, I usually get to a point where it's obvious nothing can stand against me, then lose interest and stop playing. :?

    Scooter on
  • DkarrdeDkarrde Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I've never assumed that outdated units literally only use the weapons they are depicted as using. Instead, I figure that they are just units that haven't properly adapted to new realities. They might not have enough modern weapons, the training to use the well, the right doctrine, etc., and so are not truly modern but I don't picture them as attacking helicopters with bows and arrows or whatever.

    Anyway, if you are worried about these "unrealistic" combat results, you should be equally concerned about the fact your units don't die off from disease, bad logistics, desertion, etc., before you even can get them into battle.

    I don't think anyone's genuinely upset, I think it's just an understandable bemusement with the face value of the combat results.

    Well, maybe he was annoyed he lost his tank to bad luck.

    Dkarrde on
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I just played a warlords game where my military unit had a 99.8 chance to win. And lost.

    My mind was destroyed

    Clearly you're supporting the wrong religion and you need to convert stat.

    emnmnme on
  • VicVic Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    chipman wrote: »
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    I am a bit rusty at FFH2, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    There are many varied ways of playing FFH2, depending on the race and preferences, but one constant when it comes to warfare is that you can quite easily get very powerful elite units up. Examples of these are your racial heroes, who will level up on their own and usually be able to kill a unit every couple of turns in even the most heavily fortified city. Even normal units will be eventually become hugely powerful from their experience, and with the right upgrades even a normal warrior can kill a fortified archer.

    The Vampires in particular have a rather interesting mechanic, in that their most powerful units are vampires who have the special ability to eat population in your cities to gain experience. Check out what tech you need for them, beeline for it, build a few of them, feed them up properly and you will have an army that can just rip apart even the most heavily defended townö.

    Vic on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The space race is actually kind of annoying on lower difficultly levels. I've had games where I was racing to conquer my foes before the game automatically ended with a win for me.

    jothki on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    Vic wrote: »
    chipman wrote: »
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    I am a bit rusty at FFH2, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    There are many varied ways of playing FFH2, depending on the race and preferences, but one constant when it comes to warfare is that you can quite easily get very powerful elite units up. Examples of these are your racial heroes, who will level up on their own and usually be able to kill a unit every couple of turns in even the most heavily fortified city. Even normal units will be eventually become hugely powerful from their experience, and with the right upgrades even a normal warrior can kill a fortified archer.

    The Vampires in particular have a rather interesting mechanic, in that their most powerful units are vampires who have the special ability to eat population in your cities to gain experience. Check out what tech you need for them, beeline for it, build a few of them, feed them up properly and you will have an army that can just rip apart even the most heavily defended townö.

    Alternatively get fire mages and launch fireballs at the city until it is nothing but cold embers.

    Morkath on
  • jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Morkath wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    chipman wrote: »
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    I am a bit rusty at FFH2, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    There are many varied ways of playing FFH2, depending on the race and preferences, but one constant when it comes to warfare is that you can quite easily get very powerful elite units up. Examples of these are your racial heroes, who will level up on their own and usually be able to kill a unit every couple of turns in even the most heavily fortified city. Even normal units will be eventually become hugely powerful from their experience, and with the right upgrades even a normal warrior can kill a fortified archer.

    The Vampires in particular have a rather interesting mechanic, in that their most powerful units are vampires who have the special ability to eat population in your cities to gain experience. Check out what tech you need for them, beeline for it, build a few of them, feed them up properly and you will have an army that can just rip apart even the most heavily defended townö.

    Alternatively get fire mages and launch fireballs at the city until it is nothing but cold embers.

    Fireballs are indeed good, since they deal splash damage like siege weapons, and can just be remade each turn instead of dying for good. Combine those with real seige, and you can slowly whittle down the defenses of a town. Is there a spell to lower a city's fortification level?

    jothki on
  • FiarynFiaryn Omnicidal Madman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    jothki wrote: »
    Morkath wrote: »
    Vic wrote: »
    chipman wrote: »
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    I am a bit rusty at FFH2, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

    There are many varied ways of playing FFH2, depending on the race and preferences, but one constant when it comes to warfare is that you can quite easily get very powerful elite units up. Examples of these are your racial heroes, who will level up on their own and usually be able to kill a unit every couple of turns in even the most heavily fortified city. Even normal units will be eventually become hugely powerful from their experience, and with the right upgrades even a normal warrior can kill a fortified archer.

    The Vampires in particular have a rather interesting mechanic, in that their most powerful units are vampires who have the special ability to eat population in your cities to gain experience. Check out what tech you need for them, beeline for it, build a few of them, feed them up properly and you will have an army that can just rip apart even the most heavily defended townö.

    Alternatively get fire mages and launch fireballs at the city until it is nothing but cold embers.

    Fireballs are indeed good, since they deal splash damage like siege weapons, and can just be remade each turn instead of dying for good. Combine those with real seige, and you can slowly whittle down the defenses of a town. Is there a spell to lower a city's fortification level?

    You don't even need siege. Fireballs both do collateral damage when attacking and can be made to Bombard City and lower fortification like real siege.

    Fiaryn on
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  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I think my favorite thing to do in FFH2 is to go Sheaim, get 3 death nodes*, get the Catacomb Libralius so all of my cities have mage guilds then build planar gates which spawn Mobius witches which can summon undead without any promontions because you have death 3, then just sweep the land clear of life in an unstoppable tide of undeath.

    Until you get bored, then just cause the apocalypse and laugh as the four horsemen bumfuck everyone while your demonic units just ignore it and continue slaughtering.

    *
    Having 1 of a mana node lets you gain spells from that tree via promotion. Having more than 1 gives you (number of nodes - 1) spells of that tree for free - so at 3 death nodes, you have Summon Skeleton and Summon Spectre without doing anything, and Summon Wraith is just a unit upgrade away.

    Arkan on
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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    chipman wrote: »
    OK - this thread has encouraged me to try FFH2 now.

    I got a fair distance into a game - I was one of the vampires and signed open borders with someone, explored their lands a bit and discovered they had like 2 warriors on each city (at the time I had a stack of about 10 axemen) and they were very well-developed cities - a brilliant choice for my first attack.

    It took me a fair amount of time to build up my army a bit more and march over there, I declared war and entered borders.

    Immediately, the city comes into view and it has about 20 archers on it. Every other city appears to have this many too.

    What gives? Can someone give me any hints on how best to play my first full game?

    Oh yeah - I was on cheiftain difficulty too.

    Without knowing more about the civ in question, the map, etc. it's hard to say exactly what happened. 20 archers sounds weird, but not outside the realm of possibility for a few civs if they use their unique buildings and spells. For instance, I believe Clan of Embers can force half the barbarians on the map to swear fealty with their special spell and have a building that spits out two units for every one produced the normal way (although the second lacks promotions or something).

    I will say that if you waited until you could declare open borders to build up an invading force, you waited too long. The Calabim really can benefit from smashing in faces early. Having experienced units on hand shortens how long you have to wait to turn them into vampires.

    Most Civs benefit from this in general of course. Someone on the civ fanatics forum pointed out that the cost for one settler is equivalent to 9 warriors. It's not direct equivalence since settlers get to turn food into production, but using a warrior or three in addition to the warrior and scout you start with to take out the first civ you come across gives a nice boost. Chances are their first city has better resources near it than anything else in the vicinity too.

    You're definitely going to need to specialize your research once you get the basics that let you build infrastructure. Stuff takes too long to research for most of the game to snag it all. Since the Calabim are pretty much made for melee with their vampires, that's the obvious first priority. Their hero unit, Losha, can wait.

    Steel Angel on
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    I found that tilting it doesn't work very well, and once I started jerking it, I got much better results.

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  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yeah, FFH is definitely a game where you don't want to stall on military development (unless you're playing on Huge maps and no one is anywhere near you). I play fairly passively and I still have like 10 warriors per city early on.

    Arkan on
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  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    At least, AT LEAST 4 warriors per city if any civ is close to you, preferably archers.

    TheGerbil on
  • SonelanSonelan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I like to have at least that many even if none are since barbarians like attacking me 3-4 at a time :(

    Sonelan on
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  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Parking archers in cities just means my attacking warriors can raze the land around your city, destroy your economy, cut off your resources, cripple your research, and force you to come out and fight me, least you delay any longer and my technologically superior forces arrive next.

    A lone archer in a city is fine as a defender, the rest should be offensive units used to strike out at invaders. Especially barbarian invaders that will frequently arrive and can provide decent XP for your army. Archers are also good to park at choke points, especially if they are a forested hill, or if you happen to settle a city on a choke point. Otherwise, defensive units should be used sparingly. Unless they are firebows, then your whole damn army can be them and still kick ass.

    edit: Also keep in mind archers require an archery range, don't use metal and cost 60 hammers vs 25 for a warrior. Once you have 3-4 cities it is worthwhile to have one build an archery range and archery units to spread throughout the empire. But it is very impractical to have all cities or even a few waste 100 hamers (4 warriors) building a specialty building that may not get much use. If you never mastered city specialization in BtS then you're going to continue to struggle in FfH.

    travathian on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I picked up Colonization during the Steam sale and logged a good 3 or 4 hour session the other day to really sink my teeth into it and wrap my head around the differences between Colonization and Civ4 proper.

    I gotta say, I like the concept of how trade oriented the game is. But in practice, it becomes a micro management nightmare. Having to manually set each trade route, assign a wagon to it, name the imports and exports, set what villagers are doing what in each town, the game rapidly baloons into how much time is spent doing stuff per turn.

    When you only have like 2 or 3 cities, its pretty managable. But by the time you've got 5 or 6 or more, the trade becomes a real chore. I wish there was a way to automate some of it, or just streamline the process so it isn't so bulky and monotonous.

    I like the concept of the game, but I don't know that I have the patience to manage every single turn as much as you need.

    Lucascraft on
  • ArkanArkan Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I dunno, if you set up automation well enough I find you really don't have to do much until you rebel unless you're really neurotic.

    If you're only moving small quantities of goods (say, tools to a settlement to build something) you can just do it manually and not fuss with the trade window.

    Arkan on
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  • CatshadeCatshade Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So...Gamersgate has 50% discount on all Sid Meier games (Civ 3, Civ 4, Colonization, Pirates!, Railroads). I know most people regard Civ 4 as the best in the series, but is Civ 3 Complete for $2.49 worth it to someone who has never played a Civ game?

    Catshade on
  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I have played all the games in the series and I think that Civ4 adds a lot and fixes a lot that was broken in Civ3. I certainly have no plans on ever going back to it.

    travathian on
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Catshade wrote: »
    So...Gamersgate has 50% discount on all Sid Meier games (Civ 3, Civ 4, Colonization, Pirates!, Railroads). I know most people regard Civ 4 as the best in the series, but is Civ 3 Complete for $2.49 worth it to someone who has never played a Civ game?

    I don't think so. At least it isn't worth the time investment. May as well spend your time playing Civ4 instead.

    Zombie Hero on
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  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    IMO, Civ3 was the weakest in the series. I wouldn't bother playing it.

    $15 for Railroads and Pirates tho? Sign me up.

    Kris_xK on
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  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So, my brother and I downloaded Fall From Heaven 2. We both got it from the Fall From Heaven site, and it works fine on my computer, and nothing bad has happened. However, he's claiming that a bug in the download caused his video card to overheat and melt. o_O

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I doubt it. Civ4 isnt exactly a process whore (Hell, I've accidentally left it running a few times while playing TF2) so it's unlikely Civ4 is the cause.

    Kris_xK on
    calvinhobbessleddingsig2.gif
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Actually, the idea is that the bug that came in the game is the cause. It only showed when Star Trek Online started crashing.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Kris_xK wrote: »
    I doubt it. Civ4 isnt exactly a process whore (Hell, I've accidentally left it running a few times while playing TF2) so it's unlikely Civ4 is the cause.

    Civ4 will chew up memory and processor cycles on large maps with lots of civs, but shit, it'll run on even crappy video cards so I would have a helluva time believing that it did anything to a properly running video card. Overheat and melt? Uh yeah, riiiiight. Sounds more like a shitty PSU or a motherboard that crapped out.

    edit: the bug that came in the game? You mean the mod that installs entirely within the Civ directory and your My Games folder? This mod infected the whole system and caused a video card meltdown. Umkay.

    travathian on
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    He's trying to blame me for it (since I'm the who got him to download the mod) but personally, I think that even if the bug was making the video card over heat, the dozens of times the computer overheated during the summer probably wasn't helping the video card.

    Lord_Asmodeus on
    Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. - Lincoln
  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    the dozens of times the computer overheated during the summer probably wasn't helping the video card.

    Your brother's an idiot. Civ4 had nothing to do with this.

    Kris_xK on
    calvinhobbessleddingsig2.gif
  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    So, uh, just google Fall From Heaven 2 right? Where do I put it?

    Blurbl on
  • kedinikkedinik Captain of Industry Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Civ's great, but late game's a chore on anything but the smallest maps.

    I can't bring myself to put in the final ~100 turns to finish up my current game.

    kedinik on
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  • travathiantravathian Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Blurbl wrote: »
    So, uh, just google Fall From Heaven 2 right? Where do I put it?

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1

    Main file is there, plus the patch to ver J, and the additional media. They are just exe's that install it all for you. I think they even create a desktop icon so you can load it up directly, instead of loading Civ4 first and running the mod.
    kedinik wrote: »
    I can't bring myself to put in the final ~100 turns to finish up my current game.

    Once I find myself in a no-lose situation and winning is that far off I just give up. Neither Civ4 nor BtS include very good end-game mechanics when you have a decisive lead. FFH has some double-win mechanics, but even they don't prevent stalemates or protracted end-games.

    travathian on
  • JepheryJephery Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Kris_xK wrote: »
    I doubt it. Civ4 isnt exactly a process whore (Hell, I've accidentally left it running a few times while playing TF2) so it's unlikely Civ4 is the cause.

    I plan to play Civ 4 while running WoW in the background while waiting for raids to finish forming.

    Incidentally, I can play TF2 with WoW in the background with nearly no fps drop.

    Jephery on
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  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Yeah, endgame turns take so long I usually have something running on the second monitor.

    Protip: playing two games of Civ4 concurrently gets confusing.

    Kris_xK on
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  • juice for jesusjuice for jesus Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Actually, the idea is that the bug that came in the game is the cause. It only showed when Star Trek Online started crashing.
    Could be his RAM. This happened to me once where one game, and only that game, would routinely crash. Turned out to be bad RAM. Pop out the sticks one at a time and see if it still crashes.

    juice for jesus on
  • chipmanchipman Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    travathian wrote: »
    Blurbl wrote: »
    So, uh, just google Fall From Heaven 2 right? Where do I put it?

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=1

    Main file is there, plus the patch to ver J, and the additional media. They are just exe's that install it all for you. I think they even create a desktop icon so you can load it up directly, instead of loading Civ4 first and running the mod.
    kedinik wrote: »
    I can't bring myself to put in the final ~100 turns to finish up my current game.

    Once I find myself in a no-lose situation and winning is that far off I just give up. Neither Civ4 nor BtS include very good end-game mechanics when you have a decisive lead. FFH has some double-win mechanics, but even they don't prevent stalemates or protracted end-games.

    Anyone have any idea if there are any mods that tweak the victory conditions?

    Random ideas:

    Drop amount of land required for a domination to 50% or maybe less but also have a requirement that the player must have twice (or maybe 1.5x) the land as the second best player.

    An early score victory for having something ridiculous like more than all scores combined or a certain % higher than second best.

    Oh - and make the two diplomatic victories less PAINFULLY IRRITATING.

    chipman on
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  • Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Not off the top of my head.

    Wouldn't be that hard to do tho, as the game is quite open to amateur modding.... its all txt files and XML.

    Kris_xK on
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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Anyone have any suggestions for FFH mods? I just redownloaded, but it doesn't seem to have changed significantly in the year or so since I played it.

    Jealous Deva on
  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    So if you have a city that has little chance of getting attacked, is there any reason to improve more than 4 tiles?

    Since you can only ever work 4 extra tiles, it seems like a waste to spend time working on the rest of the country side, unless you plan on that area being attacked and razed.

    I've just recently started manually working on improvements so I am not to experienced with them.

    Morkath on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Morkath wrote: »
    So if you have a city that has little chance of getting attacked, is there any reason to improve more than 4 tiles?

    Since you can only ever work 4 extra tiles, it seems like a waste to spend time working on the rest of the country side, unless you plan on that area being attacked and razed.

    I've just recently started manually working on improvements so I am not to experienced with them.

    Uh, the number of tiles you can work depends on the size of the city.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • MorkathMorkath Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2010
    Morkath wrote: »
    So if you have a city that has little chance of getting attacked, is there any reason to improve more than 4 tiles?

    Since you can only ever work 4 extra tiles, it seems like a waste to spend time working on the rest of the country side, unless you plan on that area being attacked and razed.

    I've just recently started manually working on improvements so I am not to experienced with them.

    Uh, the number of tiles you can work depends on the size of the city.

    Right, but I have never been able to work more than 4 not counting capital, even up to size 9.

    Maybe it was my city placement.

    Morkath on
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