AI are already controlling a lot of "systems". It's a leap in logic to think we'll saddle a self-aware AI with any life or death responsibility. You don't need a conscious AIs in charge of stop-lights, a normal AI will do.
And the worst-case scenario is that this AI would eventually decide that humans should die and change all the lights to green. Or yellow for more interesting results...
The worst worst-case scenario is that the AI develops awareness and moves beyond its programming. Then fucks things up on a wider scale.
it was just trying to escape the closure of the universe
SiliconStew on
Just remember that half the people you meet are below average intelligence.
I've had it happen on Insanity and Heroic. More on Insanity though.
It seems to be directly related to how long it takes to kill something.
Also it seems to be directly related to the use of Lift and/or Singularity.
Certain areas are far worse than others, the frigates you board in particular have a nasty habit of getting enemies above the level. It wasn't unusual for me to see a dot on the map only to look up and see a husk standing in the vacuum of space from the window above me.
Sometimes you can just ignore them and move on; there are a few missions that require everything die though and need to reload. It was more of an annoyance than a gamebreaker. I don't recall it happening on anything other than a sidequest and then either I had saved, or the game had auto-saved fairly recently.
There is the whole dealy with the Matriarchs room though, I've had geometry bug out there several times; not with enemies getting stuck in the level but boxes doing weird things after being lifted causing shepard to be trapped and unable to bring up the menu etc. It didn't lock the game up but required going back to the dashboard and reloading the last save.
Three times in a row my matriarch fight glitched out.
Shepard fell onto the stairs and couldn't get up after she warped him and it went to a cutscene showing some more commandos coming in. So he just lay there on the stairs in an awkward position. Only for some reason his head and both his hands were bleeding away towards the center of the room, while his body stayed put. It was so weird and kept going on (I watched because i was bored and intrigued) until he looked like a disembodied alien.
MikeMan on
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
Hey, maybe we'll just get accidentally sentient AI that just thinks humans are the bee knees, doesn't want to murder everyone, and Hollywood doesn't get to make everyone think that humans would just immediately want it dead.
What? It could happen.
Plus, I really hate the notion that an AI would be superior to humans in any way except precision repetition. Unless it also developed emotions, it wouldn't feel the need for self-preservation. It doesn't matter if it thinks five hundred thousand times faster than a kitten if it realizes getting smashed by a crowbar is bad (the AI, not the kitten) but doesn't have the capacity to care about it happening. And if does have a desire for self-preservation, it would have the basis for emotions. If it has the basis for emotions and is highly intelligent, then it would understand and sympathize with harm it would do to others.
Also hate the concept of AI which can control every freaking thing that's digital. You remember how dumb it was in Independence Day when they wrote a virus to crash an alien mainframe using a Mac? Digital system use all sorts of different designs, so good luck getting that sentient Blackberry to take over all the iPhones. And being an AI won't do the thing any good when it comes to breaking encryption since doing it through processing could take thousands of years depending on encryption versus processing power.
/rant
I like the way the whole AI thing works in Mass Effect. One oppressed AI race frees itself, the council says death to all AI, and now AI get shafted for existing. It makes perfect sense since the Council is pretty dickish. Yeah, the Krogan weren't the brightest bunch, but killing all their babies in vitro to control them after using them to fight the Rachni? Dicks. I don't even mind the Geth being anti-organic since they've been attacked by organics their entire existence and aren't actually all that bright on an individual level.
The Geth also don't get to auto-win by just hacking everything. Yeah, they can jam things, but just because they're sentient AI doesn't mean they get to Skynet everything they touch. Makes more sense and is a lot more entertaining on a bunch of levels.
I believe a train of thought exists that suggests that emotions aren't especially necessary for self-preservation. Only self-awareness.
And the anti-AI sentiment was around before the geth broke their programming. The conversation with Tali about how the quarians appeared to be using a not-quite-AI VI winkwinknudgenudge and that it wasn't necessarily kosher at the time.
I believe a train of thought exists that suggests that emotions aren't especially necessary for self-preservation. Only self-awareness.
How does that train of thought factor in suicide?
Because I've actually heard of people talking about this I just don't understand the details. Gene Wolfe wrote something about this I've just completely forgotten what.
Also hate the concept of AI which can control every freaking thing that's digital. You remember how dumb it was in Independence Day when they wrote a virus to crash an alien mainframe using a Mac?
Inaccurate analogy. In the case of a Mass Effect AI, it would be more like using a Mac laptop to crash other macs. Or possibly PCs, using emulation software.
We're not talking about a human-built AI hacking a Reaper (which contains unknown technology running unknown software written in unknown languages) here; we're talking about hacking the same technology the AI is built with, in software languages that it can understand and interpret.
Also, AIs are run in massively parallel processing quantum blueboxes that can be quite effective at decryption. Most computers in ME are mere optical computers. Really fast, but still running according to principles modern engineers would understand.
I believe a train of thought exists that suggests that emotions aren't especially necessary for self-preservation. Only self-awareness.
How does that train of thought factor in suicide?
Because I've actually heard of people talking about this I just don't understand the details. Gene Wolfe wrote something about this I've just completely forgotten what.
What about suicide. Those are people with emotions and no instinct for self-preservation. The problem is when people apply human-centred concepts to universal ideas. Do animals have emotions? Do they have self-preservation instincts? Why would it be impossible, then, to have an emotionless machine race with a goal of self-preservation?
I think the idea is that awareness of self, an individualism (or whatever), is a leading factor in the instinct to survive. More herd-ish mentalities see that as less of a motivation.
One thing I hope happens with ME2 is that there's a hidden "like/dislike" slider. Sort of like the one in DA, but not obviously stated, and not something that can be manipulated with gifts. Let's make it important to develop a few characters by exploring situations with them, rather then just developing them by talking to them in-ship and having no penalty associated with just swapping party members around to suit a particular encounter.
Hey remember when KOTOR IIs influence system involved no gifts and involved having certain people at certain points in the game, and not having certain people at certain points in the game?
Remember how that sucked major donkey dick?
Remember how you had to get a feel for party members rather then quicksaving before a conversation and trying different options for maximum "like" gains?
This conversation makes me want to re-watch The Second Renaissance part I and II I loved those to bits (even though they do take a pretty standard AI r evil sci-fi path)
The Algebraist (Ian M Banks) did a great job of showing how the existence of AI in a galactic society could work especially the Dwellers viewpoint toward the end of the book.
That was Mac Walters. When Drew moved down to Austin, he took over as lead writer. When I left, he was so mired in administrative tasks that I honestly can't say which party members will end up mostly him. He was going to do Miranda (no one cared for my tsundere-like stabs at writing her), but I think Patrick (Taky) actually ended up having to take that over. Mac also wrote the asari who runs Omega.
Let's see what I can reconstruct for the confirmed party members. This includes ME2 party members, and ME1 party members confirmed as showing up in ME2 (it hasn't been announced who, if anyone, will end up a party member in both games).
Caveat emptor, this may have changed after I left. It's very common for characters to get shuffled around for polish as the schedules of writers permit.
Miranda - Patrick and Mac?
Garrus - Mac
Jacob - Luke Kristjansen
Mordin - Patrick
Grunt - Luke
Thane - me
Subject Zero - Brian Kindregan
EDIT: Actually, I think Luke took over Jacob.
EDIT: And clarified that this is a list of ME1 and ME2 party members seen so far in ME2. Confused yet?
I didn't know Garrus was a confirmed party member.
HE IS NOW!
Actually he isn't. That was mainly just showcasing the ME1 NPCs roles in ME2...whether or not he has any extented usage hasn't really been said.
Why do you have to ruin the man's hope and optimism?
Hey, I want Garrus back too. So far of all the new people...the only ones I see who may hold my interest are Thane, Salarian doctor guy, and Jacob(but only if he reaches Sam Jackson levels of righteousness).
So having seen less than two minutes of footage for each confirmed new party member, heck, less than thirty seconds in a couple of cases, you like half of them?
That actually seems like a pretty good hit rate to me.
I'm not sure who I'm going to take for my srs bsns run
But I know suze and tits mcgee are going to be the right and left hand pimp-slappers of Levone Shepard, the most stylin motherfucker to ever roll SPECTRE style
So having seen less than two minutes of footage for each confirmed new party member, heck, less than thirty seconds in a couple of cases, you like half of them?
That actually seems like a pretty good hit rate to me.
Meh. I can usually tell which characters I will like and won't like right off the bat. Can't really think of any exceptions in the last few years.
I mean...I'm cool with every character so far. I don't have many hangups about SuZy like some people do, just that I doubt she would be character I would bring along. As for Grunt, he is pretty much Wrex-lite to me. Tali...is Tali. And Miranda, she'll seems okay, just indifferent to her(though in her case I will say I don't know anything about her).
Posts
What character is Guy Who Wrote Wrex writing?
it was just trying to escape the closure of the universe
Shepard fell onto the stairs and couldn't get up after she warped him and it went to a cutscene showing some more commandos coming in. So he just lay there on the stairs in an awkward position. Only for some reason his head and both his hands were bleeding away towards the center of the room, while his body stayed put. It was so weird and kept going on (I watched because i was bored and intrigued) until he looked like a disembodied alien.
What? It could happen.
Plus, I really hate the notion that an AI would be superior to humans in any way except precision repetition. Unless it also developed emotions, it wouldn't feel the need for self-preservation. It doesn't matter if it thinks five hundred thousand times faster than a kitten if it realizes getting smashed by a crowbar is bad (the AI, not the kitten) but doesn't have the capacity to care about it happening. And if does have a desire for self-preservation, it would have the basis for emotions. If it has the basis for emotions and is highly intelligent, then it would understand and sympathize with harm it would do to others.
Also hate the concept of AI which can control every freaking thing that's digital. You remember how dumb it was in Independence Day when they wrote a virus to crash an alien mainframe using a Mac? Digital system use all sorts of different designs, so good luck getting that sentient Blackberry to take over all the iPhones. And being an AI won't do the thing any good when it comes to breaking encryption since doing it through processing could take thousands of years depending on encryption versus processing power.
/rant
I like the way the whole AI thing works in Mass Effect. One oppressed AI race frees itself, the council says death to all AI, and now AI get shafted for existing. It makes perfect sense since the Council is pretty dickish. Yeah, the Krogan weren't the brightest bunch, but killing all their babies in vitro to control them after using them to fight the Rachni? Dicks. I don't even mind the Geth being anti-organic since they've been attacked by organics their entire existence and aren't actually all that bright on an individual level.
The Geth also don't get to auto-win by just hacking everything. Yeah, they can jam things, but just because they're sentient AI doesn't mean they get to Skynet everything they touch. Makes more sense and is a lot more entertaining on a bunch of levels.
Or at least I hope it stays that way.
And the anti-AI sentiment was around before the geth broke their programming. The conversation with Tali about how the quarians appeared to be using a not-quite-AI VI winkwinknudgenudge and that it wasn't necessarily kosher at the time.
Shadow Broker.
AI?
or
Shiala?
Both of those are too obvious IMO
Because I've actually heard of people talking about this I just don't understand the details. Gene Wolfe wrote something about this I've just completely forgotten what.
Inaccurate analogy. In the case of a Mass Effect AI, it would be more like using a Mac laptop to crash other macs. Or possibly PCs, using emulation software.
We're not talking about a human-built AI hacking a Reaper (which contains unknown technology running unknown software written in unknown languages) here; we're talking about hacking the same technology the AI is built with, in software languages that it can understand and interpret.
Also, AIs are run in massively parallel processing quantum blueboxes that can be quite effective at decryption. Most computers in ME are mere optical computers. Really fast, but still running according to principles modern engineers would understand.
Everything can be quite neatly explained away with 'magic'.
Or in this case.
'Science'
What about suicide. Those are people with emotions and no instinct for self-preservation. The problem is when people apply human-centred concepts to universal ideas. Do animals have emotions? Do they have self-preservation instincts? Why would it be impossible, then, to have an emotionless machine race with a goal of self-preservation?
I think the idea is that awareness of self, an individualism (or whatever), is a leading factor in the instinct to survive. More herd-ish mentalities see that as less of a motivation.
then it discovers hollywood films
and murders us all
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Remember how you had to get a feel for party members rather then quicksaving before a conversation and trying different options for maximum "like" gains?
The Algebraist (Ian M Banks) did a great job of showing how the existence of AI in a galactic society could work especially the Dwellers viewpoint toward the end of the book.
Neither. Shadow Broker is the Asari Consort.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Totally
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
Missed this the first time.
That was Mac Walters. When Drew moved down to Austin, he took over as lead writer. When I left, he was so mired in administrative tasks that I honestly can't say which party members will end up mostly him. He was going to do Miranda (no one cared for my tsundere-like stabs at writing her), but I think Patrick (Taky) actually ended up having to take that over. Mac also wrote the asari who runs Omega.
Let's see what I can reconstruct for the confirmed party members. This includes ME2 party members, and ME1 party members confirmed as showing up in ME2 (it hasn't been announced who, if anyone, will end up a party member in both games).
Caveat emptor, this may have changed after I left. It's very common for characters to get shuffled around for polish as the schedules of writers permit.
Miranda - Patrick and Mac?
Garrus - Mac
Jacob - Luke Kristjansen
Mordin - Patrick
Grunt - Luke
Thane - me
Subject Zero - Brian Kindregan
EDIT: Actually, I think Luke took over Jacob.
EDIT: And clarified that this is a list of ME1 and ME2 party members seen so far in ME2. Confused yet?
Actually by writing Shiala I intended to write Shaira but I'm dumb and those are two very similar generic sci fi names.
He is now, though!
Actually he isn't. That was mainly just showcasing the ME1 NPCs roles in ME2...whether or not he has any extented usage hasn't really been said.
Why do you have to ruin the man's hope and optimism?
Hey, I want Garrus back too. So far of all the new people...the only ones I see who may hold my interest are Thane, Salarian doctor guy, and Jacob(but only if he reaches Sam Jackson levels of righteousness).
Otherwise, I want my old team back.
That actually seems like a pretty good hit rate to me.
Many.
Correct. I'll edit the post to clarify.
For serious.
hes not a party member.
But I know suze and tits mcgee are going to be the right and left hand pimp-slappers of Levone Shepard, the most stylin motherfucker to ever roll SPECTRE style
EDIT plx put in a DLC pimp armour for my man
DOUBLE EDIT with a pimp cane gun
I'd use it.
He's not a confirmed party member.
I don't think you have to play a lot of it in order to figure out the Geth character is a party member.
It's not like they never showed Geth with weapons strapped to them in ME1.
As you rail over on Eden Prime, Saren is talking to a random geth trooper with a shotgun in the small of his back visible.
Meh. I can usually tell which characters I will like and won't like right off the bat. Can't really think of any exceptions in the last few years.
I mean...I'm cool with every character so far. I don't have many hangups about SuZy like some people do, just that I doubt she would be character I would bring along. As for Grunt, he is pretty much Wrex-lite to me. Tali...is Tali. And Miranda, she'll seems okay, just indifferent to her(though in her case I will say I don't know anything about her).
And thats all that matters, really.