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I Miss the Old Days (Sprites)

PiranhaPlantPiranhaPlant Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Games and Technology
Does anyone else miss the good ol sprites games like Chrono Trigger and the various Final Fantasy SNES games? While I love the new games and I am impressed with the graphics, sometimes I feel the graphics are used to sacrifice the story and emotion I got from the oldies. I still think for its time, Chrono Trigger is one of the best games ever made.

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PiranhaPlant on
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Posts

  • Drunk_caterpillarDrunk_caterpillar Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Well, it's not like sprites are dead; Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD, and a few others are keeping the spirit alive. That said, yeah, there's not a whole lot of the top down RPG style sprites you're thinking of. I kinda miss it too.

    Drunk_caterpillar on
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    215184913_bWSrd-L-2.jpg

    UnbreakableVow on
  • undeinPiratundeinPirat Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    215184913_bWSrd-L-2.jpg

    What does this have to do with sprites?

    In regards to the topic, I think it depends on the game whether sprites are beneficial; in RPG's it fits because you don't necessarily want to focus on the graphics, the story is the main part of the game. However, in something like God of War, you want fancy graphics for cool looking effects in the beat 'em up.

    It is sad that nowadays most big titles feel the compulsion to go 3D for everything when 2D looks better sometimes when done right.

    undeinPirat on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] steam: undeinpirat
  • FingerSlutFingerSlut __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    I miss plenty of old stuff. Hell I miss the fact that I don't think ill ever get to play duck duck goose with my classmates right before lunch.

    FingerSlut on
  • AbracadanielAbracadaniel Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    215184913_bWSrd-L-2.jpg

    What does this have to do with sprites?

    In regards to the topic, I think it depends on the game whether sprites are beneficial; in RPG's it fits because you don't necessarily want to focus on the graphics, the story is the main part of the game. However, in something like God of War, you want fancy graphics for cool looking effects in the beat 'em up.

    It is sad that nowadays most big titles feel the compulsion to go 3D for everything when 2D looks better sometimes when done right.

    :\

    Abracadaniel on
  • FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited October 2009
    2D sprites are not flexible and are much more expensive to work with in terms of man hours and labor than polygonal models. With sprites, you have to draw every single possible frame, and there's not much the artist can re-use. And after they are done, if you want to change the character, you have to go redraw all the sprites.

    With polygonal characters, all you have to do is repose them, and they're much more changeable if you decide that you want to tweak them. And their 'image', so to speak, only occupies memory once, instead of having to load all their possible frames into RAM.

    Maybe once consoles get powerful enough, you can do sidescroller games that look like sprites but are made of polys.

    FyreWulff on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    215184913_bWSrd-L-2.jpg

    What does this have to do with sprites?

    Are you kidding? :)

    Anyway I agree with the OP, love old style graphics and older consoles. I don't know what it is, it's not necessarily just nostalgia because I love newer games using them too such as Cave Story or Fez.

    UncleSporky on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As far as actual sprites go, I dig them nowadays. It just bothers me when people talk about the "good old days", because sprites like the ones found in Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc.? Yeah, that shit is ugly by today's standards and simply would not fly.

    Things like Odin Sphere, Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Lucidity...this is all good stuff though. I still prefer 3D graphics, though.

    EDIT: Also I forgot Blazblue, which looks amazing even if the art style is utterly retarded.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • FingerSlutFingerSlut __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    As far as actual sprites go, I dig them nowadays. It just bothers me when people talk about the "good old days", because sprites like the ones found in Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc.? Yeah, that shit is ugly by today's standards and simply would not fly.

    Things like Odin Sphere, Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Lucidity...this is all good stuff though. I still prefer 3D graphics, though.

    EDIT: Also I forgot Blazblue, which looks amazing even if the art style is utterly retarded.

    What about Castlevania SOTN which merged sprites with 3d elements?

    FingerSlut on
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    FingerSlut wrote: »
    As far as actual sprites go, I dig them nowadays. It just bothers me when people talk about the "good old days", because sprites like the ones found in Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc.? Yeah, that shit is ugly by today's standards and simply would not fly.

    Things like Odin Sphere, Muramasa, A Boy and His Blob, Lucidity...this is all good stuff though. I still prefer 3D graphics, though.

    EDIT: Also I forgot Blazblue, which looks amazing even if the art style is utterly retarded.

    What about Castlevania SOTN which merged sprites with 3d elements?

    I actually really hate the look of the 3D objects in the 2D Castlevania games. Wish they would just keep it strictly 2D or go 3D, because while some games can pull off the look, they certainly can't.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • ChenChen Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Call me one of the sceptics on for instance New Super Mario Bros. and Street Fighter 4, but they turned out rather good in the end despite the visual changes. I wish I could say the same to Fire Emblem though. The 3D animations just miss the oomph sprite animation can provide.

    Chen on
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  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You should check out Half-Minute Hero.. this game has awesome [strike]sprites[/strike].


    ..Fyrewulff said everything I was going to say so yeah, check out what he said. I have nothing else to add.

    4rch3nemy on
  • AroducAroduc regular
    edited October 2009
    Sprite based games, especially on the PC, are still relatively common enough in Japan because they have a billion artists all trying to make it. Just very few of them get ported over and computer generated graphics are much cheaper in the long run since you get to reuse and build off of a graphical engine instead of having to trash your entire art set each time.

    But lord knows N-1 and Gust are all about sprite reuse.

    Aroduc on
  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    215184913_bWSrd-L-2.jpg

    What does this have to do with sprites?

    Are you kidding? :)

    Anyway I agree with the OP, love old style graphics and older consoles. I don't know what it is, it's not necessarily just nostalgia because I love newer games using them too such as Cave Story or Fez.

    Liking the mention of Fez, due to its use of dimensions as a gameplay element.

    darleysam on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As far as actual sprites go, I dig them nowadays. It just bothers me when people talk about the "good old days", because sprites like the ones found in Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc.? Yeah, that shit is ugly by today's standards and simply would not fly.
    Ugly by today's standards?

    csscreen2.png

    I consider this beautiful. Yes, you can see the pixels. That's the best part! Replace the rocks, blocks and grass with photorealistic textures and you lose something tangible.

    If you like pixel art check out http://www.pixeljoint.com/. All kinds of great stuff.

    pjplaguedo.gif

    UncleSporky on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    As far as actual sprites go, I dig them nowadays. It just bothers me when people talk about the "good old days", because sprites like the ones found in Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy, etc.? Yeah, that shit is ugly by today's standards and simply would not fly.
    Ugly by today's standards?

    csscreen2.png

    I consider this beautiful. Yes, you can see the pixels. That's the best part! Replace the rocks, blocks and grass with photorealistic textures and you lose something tangible.

    You certainly do.

    Blocky pixels.

    There's nothing good-looking about that screenshot.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    You don't belong in this thread, then.

    UncleSporky on
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  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Pretty sure the thread's about sprites in general! In which case I'm more than welcome to stay, thank you very much.

    Sprites are cool. I don't find blocky pixellated junk, however, "charming."

    In other words, this:

    15828.jpg

    but not this

    final-fantasy-iv-advance-20051216033455889.jpg

    UnbreakableVow on
  • fragglefartfragglefart Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I used to like repeatedly pausing old games to check out all the animation frames.

    fragglefart on
    fragglefart.jpg
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    oh god when i read that suddenly the SFII SNES pause music started running repeatedly through me head.

    DUN DUN DUN DUN hu hu huh huh

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Satanic JesusSatanic Jesus Hi, I'm Liam! with broken glassesRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I like the sprites in FF1 on the PSP more than the 3D in FF4 on the DS.

    Satanic Jesus on
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  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This one's for you (OP) then!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoFYEtj2tDw

    Darlan on
  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Pretty sure the thread's about sprites in general! In which case I'm more than welcome to stay, thank you very much.

    Sprites are cool. I don't find blocky pixellated junk, however, "charming."

    In other words, this:

    15828.jpg

    but not this

    final-fantasy-iv-advance-20051216033455889.jpg

    Both look fine to me, I don't see a problem.

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
  • darleysamdarleysam On my way to UKRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I used to like repeatedly pausing old games to check out all the animation frames.

    ref_chunli.jpg

    darleysam on
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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Pretty sure the thread's about sprites in general! In which case I'm more than welcome to stay, thank you very much.
    It's about missing the old days. There weren't fully-painted, huge resolution, 30 frames-per-second animations back then. There's nothing wrong with modern 2D games, they're just not what the primary focus is here.

    Particularly I love the Within a Deep Forest/Knytt games, Nifflas does so much with minimalistic patterns and shapes:

    image6.png
    390143757_883a14074f.jpg

    I'm working on my own NES game in that style and it's both fun and a challenge to meet the old color and space requirements.
    nesstyle.png
    Obviously it has a long way to go yet!

    UncleSporky on
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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Pretty sure the thread's about sprites in general! In which case I'm more than welcome to stay, thank you very much.
    It's about missing the old days. There weren't fully-painted, huge resolution, 30 frames-per-second animations back then. There's nothing wrong with modern 2D games, they're just not what the primary focus is here.

    Particularly I love the Within a Deep Forest/Knytt games, Nifflas does so much with minimalistic patterns and shapes:

    image6ii.png

    I'm working on my own NES game in that style and it's both fun and a challenge to meet the old color and space requirements.
    nesstyle.png
    Obviously it has a long way to go yet!

    Normally I'm not a fan at all of minimalistic designs but the Knytt games are fucking fantastic. I wish I wasn't at work so I could see your screenshots (imageshack is blocked here).

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Just replaced it with photobucket.

    UncleSporky on
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  • DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    They also block that. :P

    edit: don't worry about it, I can wait till I get off work to look at em.

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
  • FingerSlutFingerSlut __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    I wonder if a sprite game would mix well with 3d lighting effects/shaders.

    oh yeah its badass: 070111_castlevania_sotn_05.jpg

    FingerSlut on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    In the end of the day, sprites really don't work for a lot of newer game mechanics (look at elements in Ninja Gaiden and Devil May Cry). And they cause a few serious problems in purely 3D environments (which, let's face it, are very common). Taking photographs of your design staff in vaguely Nazi-ish uniforms on a turntable only works for so long, and resolutions reach the point where they can recognize their faces...it stops working period. And then there are things like lighting, when it stops being a nifty addition and actually effecting gameplay.

    But, there are cases where sprites work well. Especially in smaller games. And early 3D titles on the PSX did look like ass a lot of the time.

    Synthesis on
  • 4rch3nemy4rch3nemy Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    FingerSlut wrote: »
    I wonder if a sprite game would mix well with 3d lighting effects/shaders.

    oh yeah its badass: 070111_castlevania_sotn_05.jpg

    Yeah, I really do love SotN's art and don't know what people mean when they say it's ugly to mix 2d and 3d in Castlevania.

    4rch3nemy on
  • PikaPuffPikaPuff Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    I used to like repeatedly pausing old games to check out all the animation frames.

    ref_chunli.jpg
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    oh god when i read that suddenly the SFII SNES pause music started running repeatedly through me head.

    DUN DUN DUN DUN hu hu huh huh

    PikaPuff on
    jCyyTSo.png
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I really wish more companies would do sprite-based stuff on modern consoles. BlazBlue is goddamn gorgeous and it makes me sad that there's really no equivalent in any other genre.

    NIS really needs to up the resolution on their art or something, even Disgaea 3 still looks pretty bland (for the in-game stuff, the portraits look great)

    Vincent Grayson on
  • PolloDiabloPolloDiablo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    darleysam wrote: »
    I used to like repeatedly pausing old games to check out all the animation frames.

    ref_chunli.jpg
    PikaPuff wrote: »
    oh god when i read that suddenly the SFII SNES pause music started running repeatedly through me head.

    DUN DUN DUN DUN hu hu huh huh

    That is the best juxtaposition.

    PolloDiablo on
  • Mr.BrickMr.Brick Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Someone just showed me this:

    http://jayisgames.com/cgdc6/?gameID=9

    Rather cool casual game. Starts off heavily pixilated.

    Mr.Brick on
    pew pew pew
  • MordrackMordrack Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    darleysam wrote: »
    I used to like repeatedly pausing old games to check out all the animation frames.

    ref_chunli.jpg
    Does pausing Streets of Rage so you could see Blaze's panties count?

    Mordrack on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Cave Story is a beautiful game. I love 2d games. That is all.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • McAllenMcAllen Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Does Metal Slug not count as using sprites?

    McAllen on
  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    McAllen wrote: »
    Does Metal Slug not count as using sprites?

    ...unless a 3D Metal Slug game came out without me knowing somehow, I'm pretty sure all Metal Slug games use sprites and 2D backgrounds.

    1 through 7 do, anyway.

    Excuse me, I need to go see if a MS game was released in 3D without me knowing it.

    Synthesis on
  • RustRust __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    Synthesis wrote: »
    McAllen wrote: »
    Does Metal Slug not count as using sprites?

    ...unless a 3D Metal Slug game came out without me knowing somehow, I'm pretty sure all Metal Slug games use sprites and 2D backgrounds.

    there was a 3D metal slug

    it was so awful

    Rust on
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