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Modern Warfare 2: Out now! Removal of pants advised.

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    SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Saeadeb wrote: »
    Random thought about the copycat deathstreak, it says you can copy your killers class while the killcam is up. What about in hardcore I wonder.
    It will probably ask while you wait to respawn.

    SirToasty on
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    So

    You guys think the LIVE servers will be able to handle it this time?

    They handled COD MW fine, the only time I've seen them crash is when Halo 3 came out. Even then it wasn't so bad.

    Analrapist on
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    wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    They went down when World at War came out. Private matches were the only way to get a multiplayer game going.

    wonderpug on
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    smokealbertsmokealbert Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    wonderpug wrote: »
    Have riot shields (or an equivalent) been implemented successfully in any other multiplayer shooters? I'm trying to keep an open mind but it just sounds like it'll be goofy and annoying.

    In rainbow 6 vegas (and R6V2?).

    They were fairly well balanced, but if the whole opposing team used them it was fairly infuriating, as you could use a pistol at the same time and most R6V games had explosives disabled, even on pub servers. You were fairly hard to kill behind a shield as long as you stayed put so teams could block off whole sections of the map.

    smokealbert on
    Xbox GT: Smokealbert
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    wonderpug wrote: »
    They went down when World at War came out. Private matches were the only way to get a multiplayer game going.

    Oh.
    No big loss then.

    Analrapist on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I'm a transportation consultant by trade. One of my "industry rags" is a transportation security newsletter. One of today's articles is:

    Reports: Video Game Includes Terrorist Attack on Airport
    Activists in Australia are protesting a video game in which players reportedly take on the role of terrorists attacking civilians in an airport. The publisher of "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" says "the scene is designed to evoke the atrocities of terrorism," but some groups want to see tougher government warnings on the game. "The consequences of terrorism are just abhorrent in our community and yet here we are with a product that's meant to be passed off as a leisure time activity, actually promoting what most world leaders speak out publicly against," says Jane Roberts, president of the Australian Council on Children and the Media. News.com.au (Australia)

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26276759-5014239,00.html

    So, yeah - the first to jump seems to be the Aussies, rather than Fox.

    Elvenshae on
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    PacifistPacifist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »
    So

    You guys think the LIVE servers will be able to handle it this time?

    They handled COD MW fine, the only time I've seen them crash is when Halo 3 came out. Even then it wasn't so bad.

    Uuuuhhhh... are we forgetting the utter shitfest that was MW online when the game came out? That game took Live down and basically made the news

    Pacifist on
    XBL: Pacifist NJ
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I still don't get the big deal.
    Seriously I don't.
    It's a goddamn videogame. It's fake. It's ones and zeros.
    It's not a murder simulator.
    It has the option to skip.
    It does not teach you how to load and fire a weapon, nor does it contion you into a fundamentalist murderer.
    The only way this can even remotely become a problem is if the media, and people make it out to be something bigger than it is.

    IE: Balloon Boy hoax.

    Analrapist on
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    ShrikeTheAvatarShrikeTheAvatar Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I'm a transportation consultant by trade. One of my "industry rags" is a transportation security newsletter. One of today's articles is:

    Reports: Video Game Includes Terrorist Attack on Airport
    Activists in Australia are protesting a video game in which players reportedly take on the role of terrorists attacking civilians in an airport. The publisher of "Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2" says "the scene is designed to evoke the atrocities of terrorism," but some groups want to see tougher government warnings on the game. "The consequences of terrorism are just abhorrent in our community and yet here we are with a product that's meant to be passed off as a leisure time activity, actually promoting what most world leaders speak out publicly against," says Jane Roberts, president of the Australian Council on Children and the Media. News.com.au (Australia)

    http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26276759-5014239,00.html

    So, yeah - the first to jump seems to be the Aussies, rather than Fox.

    This is what pisses me off the most - people protesting what they literally do not understand.

    It's not 'promoting what most world leaders speak out publicly against.' If they would take five minutes and just read the Wikipedia article even, they would see that the game is about fighting terrorists. Give me a fucking break.

    ShrikeTheAvatar on
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    ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    This is what pisses me off the most - people protesting what they literally do not understand.

    But, if we only protested things we actually understood, well, then nobody would protest anything.

    And then where would the posterboard industry be?

    Elvenshae on
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    This is what pisses me off the most - people protesting what they literally do not understand.

    But, if we only protested things we actually understood, well, then nobody would protest anything.

    And then where would the posterboard industry be?

    SCIENCE FAIRS!

    Analrapist on
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    LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    They understand it fine.

    but ratings beat informing the public everytime.

    Leitner on
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    wonderpugwonderpug Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »
    wonderpug wrote: »
    They went down when World at War came out. Private matches were the only way to get a multiplayer game going.

    Oh.
    No big loss then.

    It doesn't matter if you liked World at War or not, the point is that World at War was a smaller release than Modern Warfare 2 and it broke Live.

    wonderpug on
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    NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »
    I still don't get the big deal.
    Seriously I don't.
    It's a goddamn videogame. It's fake. It's ones and zeros.
    It's not a murder simulator.
    It has the option to skip.
    It does not teach you how to load and fire a weapon, nor does it contion you into a fundamentalist murderer.
    The only way this can even remotely become a problem is if the media, and people make it out to be something bigger than it is.

    IE: Balloon Boy hoax.

    welllll, just to take devil's advocate for a second:
    i find this debate fairly interesting when it comes up still, esp. regarding videogames, because they are only going to get more realistic, and i think a lot of gamers can be as knee-jerk as the media. it isn't just ones and zeros any more, you know that. VG characters bleed, crawl away, speak, etc. i would say that shooters today literally are murder simulators in that they simulate murder- it's justified in context of course, they are aliens or nazis or whatever. just sayin'.

    now i'm not saying games make murderers, but i daresay people who play a lot of shooters will know the right end of a gun when they see one. and i'd probably go a bit further- people who are interested in shooters probably research guns from their favourite games and their history and all that jazz. so games can teach people things like how to fire a weapon.

    whether the media can desensitize people to killing is another matter- there are some studies that can suggest just so. personally i think the violent films i watch and the violent games i play have made me less sensitive to gore and violence than other members of my family.

    tl;dr feel like shooting up a school brb

    Nuzak on
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    Analrapist wrote: »
    I still don't get the big deal.
    Seriously I don't.
    It's a goddamn videogame. It's fake. It's ones and zeros.
    It's not a murder simulator.
    It has the option to skip.
    It does not teach you how to load and fire a weapon, nor does it contion you into a fundamentalist murderer.
    The only way this can even remotely become a problem is if the media, and people make it out to be something bigger than it is.

    IE: Balloon Boy hoax.

    welllll, just to take devil's advocate for a second:
    i find this debate fairly interesting when it comes up still, esp. regarding videogames, because they are only going to get more realistic, and i think a lot of gamers can be as knee-jerk as the media. it isn't just ones and zeros any more, you know that. VG characters bleed, crawl away, speak, etc. i would say that shooters today literally are murder simulators in that they simulate murder- it's justified in context of course, they are aliens or nazis or whatever. just sayin'.

    now i'm not saying games make murderers, but i daresay people who play a lot of shooters will know the right end of a gun when they see one. and i'd probably go a bit further- people who are interested in shooters probably research guns from their favourite games and their history and all that jazz. so games can teach people things like how to fire a weapon.

    whether the media can desensitize people to killing is another matter- there are some studies that can suggest just so. personally i think the violent films i watch and the violent games i play have made me less sensitive to gore and violence than other members of my family.

    tl;dr feel like shooting up a school brb


    I agree 100% with everything you said. And I've put a lot of thought into it, and yeah eventually the videogame industry is going to shoot its self in the foot with how real games are getting.
    But being desnsitized to virtual / acted out violence is different from being desnsitized to real violence.
    I'll admit, I've seen my fair share of online videos of people getting beaten and shot to death. Faces of death type stuff, but real. There was one video I saw, where a group of teens in russia beat a old man to death with a hammer near a park, they taped it all on thier cell phone. It was the most horrible thing I ever saw (next to a woman stepping on a kitten with a stiletto heel, even then I only watched to the point where she started to lower her foot and turned it off. Never went back).

    In games I can shoot a guy in the face and say stupid things and laugh about it. But could I do that in real life? Hell no. I don't even like killing ants, I can't imagine killing a human.

    We can argue that there are some people that would and or will go out and kill a guy because they were inspired by the game. But that happens all the time in all forms of media.

    I don't know. This seems like the most over blown thing in videogames right now, and we haven't even experienced it first hand yet. We're crucifying something before we even gave it a trial.

    Analrapist on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    There has actually been a study from the German Army I read a year or so ago that said that young men who played a lot of shooters actually perform better in all gun, fighting and most of the tactical exercises.

    I actually found that very interesting.

    Klyka on
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    BlackDoveBlackDove Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I for one am so glad Infinity Ward is trying this approach with the storyline.

    Finally something fresh and experimental.

    BlackDove on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    now i'm not saying games make murderers, but i daresay people who play a lot of shooters will know the right end of a gun when they see one. and i'd probably go a bit further- people who are interested in shooters probably research guns from their favourite games and their history and all that jazz. so games can teach people things like how to fire a weapon.

    I have literally never seen a case of this.

    UnbreakableVow on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I hope the message before the level reads:

    "WARNING: The following sequence might be too graphical for some people's tastes.
    If you wish to skip it, press "B". If you are a terrorist, like to slaughter innocents and wish to be taken into custody, press "A"."

    Klyka on
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    UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Klyka wrote: »
    I hope the message before the level reads:

    "WARNING: The following sequence might be too graphical for some people's tastes.
    If you wish to skip it, press "B". If you are a terrorist, like to slaughter innocents and wish to be taken into custody, press "A"."

    If you press B, they'll just show this instead:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2sKH8yjVsM

    UnbreakableVow on
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    KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    But I think the greatest achievement of MW2 will be all the people who go on "Media Blackouts" of this game and then play the campaign and once they reach THAT LEVEL, they will flood the forum with "OMG HOW CONTROVERSIAL!"

    Klyka on
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    MechanicalMechanical Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Leitner wrote: »
    So has it been confirmed to what extent you can choose the visuals of your character?

    Probably the same as the previous installments save the ghillie suits being a perk.

    Mechanical on
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    NuzakNuzak Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Nuzak wrote: »
    now i'm not saying games make murderers, but i daresay people who play a lot of shooters will know the right end of a gun when they see one. and i'd probably go a bit further- people who are interested in shooters probably research guns from their favourite games and their history and all that jazz. so games can teach people things like how to fire a weapon.

    I have literally never seen a case of this.

    really? i do it all the time, it's a byproduct of tvtropes syndrome. guns was the specific example but games and media are super useful at raising interest in related real world objects and events

    you start reading up on mass effect because you want to know ow to get past x, and then you get onto mass effect's interpretation of physics, and then you get onto wikipedia which tells you all about red shift, and then it's 3AM

    or, you watch saving private ryan, and then you read up on the history of the M1 garand, maybe. stuff like that.

    e: to expand on the highlighted point: somebody who goes and looks all this stuff up because they are curious about the media they just consumed and were interested in the subject material will probably have good theoretical knowledge about it in the end. EG: while i have no experience handling a gun of any kind, i have a rough idea about how some of them work, and the parts that make them up.

    Nuzak on
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    Kris_xKKris_xK Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Mechanical wrote: »
    Leitner wrote: »
    So has it been confirmed to what extent you can choose the visuals of your character?

    Probably the same as the previous installments save the ghillie suits being a perk.

    Ghillie suits are a perk now? I havent seen that mentioned anywhere.

    Kris_xK on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Klyka wrote: »
    There has actually been a study from the German Army I read a year or so ago that said that young men who played a lot of shooters actually perform better in all gun, fighting and most of the tactical exercises.

    I actually found that very interesting.
    That could be that playing shooters makes them more capable soldiers or that people who are disposed to being capable soldiers tend to be attracted to first person shooter games. More than likely that it's a bit of both.

    It should be noted, there's nothing evil about knowing how to shoot a gun well.

    Hoz on
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    MorvidusMorvidus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    This is what pisses me off the most - people protesting what they literally do not understand.

    But, if we only protested things we actually understood, well, then nobody would protest anything.

    And then where would the posterboard industry be?

    SCIENCE FAIRS!

    The WWE?

    Morvidus on
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    SkannerJATSkannerJAT Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Only thing I wish for would be select fire. I know that say, the G3, was semi-auto only for balancing purposes. It just sucked thinking about wanting to put down suppressing fire to move and having to fire every freaking round. Saying this I also know full well that suppressing fire rarely works in a game where people really dont give a damn about dying because they will be back in 15 seconds. Minor gripe only mentioned because I'm bored at work.

    Having the ghillie suit as a perk is neat. Even better if you could just choose it and not have it take a slot.

    SkannerJAT on
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    Nick TNick T Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I would like an invite to the PA metatag list for 360. Gamer tag is convic nic. Never really played the first one online, but I'd be more than happy to be PA's cannon fodder this time around.

    Nick T on
    PSN: ConvicNic
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    ShrikeTheAvatarShrikeTheAvatar Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »

    I agree 100% with everything you said. And I've put a lot of thought into it, and yeah eventually the videogame industry is going to shoot its self in the foot with how real games are getting.
    awful things

    I don't know. This seems like the most over blown thing in videogames right now, and we haven't even experienced it first hand yet. We're crucifying something before we even gave it a trial.

    Rant:
    I personally think that desensitization to violence is a real thing, but I believe the human brain is a lot more complex than a lot of people give it credit for in this area.

    I watch violent movies, play violent video games, and I'm plenty used to it, and yet just reading the description of the video that you talked about was enough to make me feel physically ill.

    The brain knows the difference between something that's real, and something that's not. There are a lot of things that factor into how the brain perceives violence, and for whatever reason, this airport scene in MW2 must hit on a lot of those areas, because it bothered me too. But I think that's a testament to the quality of the game and storytelling.

    I've spent lots of hours mowing down innocent pedestrians in the GTA games, but this bothered me. Hell, I had a hard to playing the dark side in KOTOR 2 because I felt so awful killing innocent Ithorians.

    The point is, this whole thing is a lot more complicated than a lot of people think - especially the media. But that's nothing new...

    Anyway, I'm insanely excited for this game. Not sure if there's a GT list, but my GT is D4rthVolta.

    ShrikeTheAvatar on
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    SkannerJATSkannerJAT Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Once I am up and running on my own Xbox I will be putting my handle out there.

    I can easily see media desensitizing people to different things but I believe it takes a lot more then media input to make someone OK with, and take part in, the actions that lead to these images, at least IRL.

    I have fired weapons and have been shot at. One was fun, the other was not (( at least in retrospect, at the time I did not really think about it )) but neither influences my enthusiasm in shooting someone.

    Also when people are confronted with something like say, dead bodies or brutality that is not directed at themselves they typically will associate these situations/images with something that can be seen as less then real. This is a coping mechanism and does not relate to intent to do harm. I know I am generalizing this a bit and my evidence of this is anecdotal but its how I have seen it.

    SkannerJAT on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Klyka wrote: »
    There has actually been a study from the German Army I read a year or so ago that said that young men who played a lot of shooters actually perform better in all gun, fighting and most of the tactical exercises.

    I actually found that very interesting.

    The aiming stuff makes sense. Games improve hand-eye coordination. Playing a lot of games probably helps you catch a tennis ball better too.

    BubbaT on
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    MorvidusMorvidus Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Klyka wrote: »
    There has actually been a study from the German Army I read a year or so ago that said that young men who played a lot of shooters actually perform better in all gun, fighting and most of the tactical exercises.

    I actually found that very interesting.

    The aiming stuff makes sense. Games improve hand-eye coordination. Playing a lot of games probably helps you catch a tennis ball better too.

    There's an article out there that says sex makes you better at video games. I'm at work, so I'm sure our web filter will block it, but I'll look for it when I have time.

    Morvidus on
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist wrote: »

    I agree 100% with everything you said. And I've put a lot of thought into it, and yeah eventually the videogame industry is going to shoot its self in the foot with how real games are getting.
    awful things

    I don't know. This seems like the most over blown thing in videogames right now, and we haven't even experienced it first hand yet. We're crucifying something before we even gave it a trial.

    Rant:
    I personally think that desensitization to violence is a real thing, but I believe the human brain is a lot more complex than a lot of people give it credit for in this area.

    I watch violent movies, play violent video games, and I'm plenty used to it, and yet just reading the description of the video that you talked about was enough to make me feel physically ill.

    The brain knows the difference between something that's real, and something that's not. There are a lot of things that factor into how the brain perceives violence, and for whatever reason, this airport scene in MW2 must hit on a lot of those areas, because it bothered me too. But I think that's a testament to the quality of the game and storytelling.

    I've spent lots of hours mowing down innocent pedestrians in the GTA games, but this bothered me. Hell, I had a hard to playing the dark side in KOTOR 2 because I felt so awful killing innocent Ithorians.

    The point is, this whole thing is a lot more complicated than a lot of people think - especially the media. But that's nothing new...

    Anyway, I'm insanely excited for this game. Not sure if there's a GT list, but my GT is D4rthVolta.

    I think you said what I wanted to, but better haha.

    Analrapist on
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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    @Analrapist: I have to say, I have problems with the whole "it's only ones and zero, lol" argument - mainly because representation does matter. People care about fictions, they become emotionally involved, whether these fictions are books, TV series, films - or computer games. Do they care the same way and to the same extent as they would about 'real' things? Perhaps not, although that's debatable - to be quite honest, I probably cared more about the deaths of some fictional characters I could mention than I did about my grandparents' deaths, as I wasn't terribly close to them.

    Does this mean that video game killing = real killing? Obviously not. But the "It's not real!" argument ignores that emotionally and cognitively, most people get involved in fictions that belie the argument, they have *genuine* emotional reactions, and to ignore that is unrealistic and naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

    Thirith on
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    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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    FingerSlutFingerSlut __BANNED USERS regular
    edited October 2009
    It may not function as a murder simulator, but it is teaching you tactics. Or you're teaching it your tactics. Either way is kinda scary.

    FingerSlut on
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    Super NaturalSuper Natural Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    I hope Australia sticks to there guns and doesn't ban this scene.
    Don't worry Aussie Rating system were rooting for you!
    except about the laack of R18 thing

    Super Natural on
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    MechanicalMechanical Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Kris_xK wrote: »
    Ghillie suits are a perk now? I havent seen that mentioned anywhere.

    It's been mentioned in passing a few times. I'll dig em' up in a bit.

    Mechanical on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Thirith wrote: »
    @Analrapist: I have to say, I have problems with the whole "it's only ones and zero, lol" argument - mainly because representation does matter. People care about fictions, they become emotionally involved, whether these fictions are books, TV series, films - or computer games. Do they care the same way and to the same extent as they would about 'real' things? Perhaps not, although that's debatable - to be quite honest, I probably cared more about the deaths of some fictional characters I could mention than I did about my grandparents' deaths, as I wasn't terribly close to them.

    Does this mean that video game killing = real killing? Obviously not. But the "It's not real!" argument ignores that emotionally and cognitively, most people get involved in fictions that belie the argument, they have *genuine* emotional reactions, and to ignore that is unrealistic and naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

    Agree. The entire point of the scene is to make you care, and not just consider it 1s and 0s. It's a "Why We Fight", which helps separate it from more "mindless" FPS stuff like Serious Sam. Seeing how bad the bad guys are drives home the urgency of the player's mission, just as it did in the first MW when
    you see the bad guys murdering people in the opening scene and then later setting off a nuke.

    If Infinity Ward just wanted you to think 1s and 0s they'd never put the scene in, they'd just give the character a gun and say "go shoot stuff," a la DOOM.

    BubbaT on
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    AnalrapistAnalrapist Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    @Analrapist: I have to say, I have problems with the whole "it's only ones and zero, lol" argument - mainly because representation does matter. People care about fictions, they become emotionally involved, whether these fictions are books, TV series, films - or computer games. Do they care the same way and to the same extent as they would about 'real' things? Perhaps not, although that's debatable - to be quite honest, I probably cared more about the deaths of some fictional characters I could mention than I did about my grandparents' deaths, as I wasn't terribly close to them.

    Does this mean that video game killing = real killing? Obviously not. But the "It's not real!" argument ignores that emotionally and cognitively, most people get involved in fictions that belie the argument, they have *genuine* emotional reactions, and to ignore that is unrealistic and naive at best, disingenuous at worst.

    Agree. The entire point of the scene is to make you care, and not just consider it 1s and 0s. It's a "Why We Fight", which helps separate it from more "mindless" FPS stuff like Serious Sam. Seeing how bad the bad guys are drives home the urgency of the player's mission, just as it did in the first MW when
    you see the bad guys murdering people in the opening scene and then later setting off a nuke.

    If Infinity Ward just wanted you to think 1s and 0s they'd never put the scene in, they'd just give the character a gun and say "go shoot stuff," a la DOOM.

    Sure. Let it make people think. That's fine, but the thing is everyone who has a problem with it is taking it rather personal. As if it's going to change their entire being. As if it's being forced upon them when it is entirely optional. Not only that, nobody yet know HOW it fits into the games plot.

    It's not like IW made this part of the game to appease the sadists out there who want to hurt innocent people. and I'm sure they had many many meetings with the publishers and higher ups to eventually get the o.k to add this into the game.

    But yeah, if people don't like it they don't have to play it, and still enjoy the rest of the game. It's not a big issue.

    I'm personally really excited for this game, and I'm really excited to see how this part fits into the overall story.

    Analrapist on
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    ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Analrapist, I pretty much agree 100% with what you've just said in that last post. I guess my main problem with the "it's only virtual/fictional i.e. unreal" argument is that it strikes me as a kneejerk reaction to the whole "violence, OMG, think of the kids!" hysteria, and an inaccurate one at that. I think that the discussion of violence in games (or films) is an interesting and worthwhile one, but it's pretty much fucked up by oversimplification on either side.

    Thirith on
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    "Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
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