Wheel of Time: Towers of Midnight

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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Dalboz wrote: »
    Is there a place I can find good summaries of the books with significant information but not spoilers? I read up through book 8 (Path of Daggers) when it came out originally and I want to pick up the series again and finish it, or at least close to finish since it isn't done 'til next year, but I can't remember everything or everyone from the previous books at this point. I want to pick up at book 9 without having to reread the rest of the series. Please don't tell me that I can just skip some of the books. I want to read all of them.

    I guess I'm not sure what you want. Do you want a summary of books 1-8? Or do you want something like the wiki, with summaries of characters and events, but somehow without spoilers for book9+?

    The first should be doable: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2009/02/wheel-of-time-re-read-index#EOTW

    Just go through this, it's got decent summaries of each book in chunks.

    The latter, I'm not sure is available.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Ordered my Kindle. Unfortunately seems Tower of Midnight isn't out on e-book yet, only some kind of prologue version.

    Alegis on
  • physi_marcphysi_marc Positron Tracker Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Alegis wrote: »
    Ordered my Kindle. Unfortunately seems Tower of Midnight isn't out on e-book yet, only some kind of prologue version.

    The e-book is coming out on January 31st.

    physi_marc on
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    physi_marc wrote: »
    Alegis wrote: »
    Ordered my Kindle. Unfortunately seems Tower of Midnight isn't out on e-book yet, only some kind of prologue version.

    The e-book is coming out on January 31st.

    My B-day! How convenient.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Thanks, I'll check it out then. Don't like carrying hardback around and paperback is probably for another extra year.

    Alegis on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Alegis wrote: »
    Thanks, I'll check it out then. Don't like carrying hardback around and paperback is probably for another extra year.

    Really? I'm the exact opposite.

    I hate dealing with flimsy paperbacks but absolutely adore the feel of a good hardback.

    I don't see myself ever switching to an ebook reader.

    SparserLogic on
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    If only we met in childhood, we could be each other's arch-nemesis!

    hardbacks are heavy and the font is usually too big, while paperback is so cute - it's like opening a gift package when you hold it. Easier to read while standing in a train too.

    and e-reader well, I'm traveling a lot now and it's hella convenient. Hopefully it arrives before my bus to tokyo

    Alegis on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Alegis wrote: »
    If only we met in childhood, we could be each other's arch-nemesis!

    hardbacks are heavy and the font is usually too big, while paperback is so cute - it's like opening a gift package when you hold it. Easier to read while standing in a train too.

    and e-reader well, I'm traveling a lot now and it's hella convenient. Hopefully it arrives before my bus to tokyo

    Never too late, my friend!

    I have an aversion to paperbacks for many reasons, not the least of which being that my father can't seem to help himself whenever I loan him one, he always cracks/breaks the spine in half. I suppose its his tendency to read one handed so he just folds the book in half to keep it open. Ugh.

    SparserLogic on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Why doesn't he just put his thumb in the bottom between the two halves? Or hold it in an overhand grip with his fingers coming over the top holding it open. There's so many options for keeping it open one-handed that don't involve breaking it.

    My only real problem with WoT paperbacks is most of them I've read had a history of smudging ink all over my fingers, but maybe that's a personal problem.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Why doesn't he just put his thumb in the bottom between the two halves? Or hold it in an overhand grip with his fingers coming over the top holding it open. There's so many options for keeping it open one-handed that don't involve breaking it.

    My only real problem with WoT paperbacks is most of them I've read had a history of smudging ink all over my fingers, but maybe that's a personal problem.

    My problem with WoT paperbacks has always been that the covers fall off and then the book tears itself apart due to the sheer weight of the pages.

    Taramoor on
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  • AetherAether Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    Aether on
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    Taramoor on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.

    SparserLogic on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.

    Z0re on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    and isn't Alivia stronger than Nynaeve anyway?

    Tofystedeth on
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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    and isn't Alivia stronger than Nynaeve anyway?
    Alivia is either as strong, or near enough, as a woman can be in the one power. Nynaeve is about a tier or so down, on par with most of the Forsaken except Lanfear before her power drain. Egwene/Elyane/Moiraine are about another tier under that, and Moiraine is even lower now.

    Z0re on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.

    Alivia is an excellent point. I had forgotten about that particular viewing.

    That said, hasn't it been established re:Moraine that one's innate channeling ability affects the actual volume one can channel even if they use an angreal that drastically increases their bandwidth?

    i.e. Rand and a weak Asha'man using the same Angreal can both channel at, say, 200wps (weaves per second, assuming the same skill level) but overall the Asha'man will fall over dead after 2gw (giga weaves) while Rand can continue on up to 200gw.

    Thus Moraine is now essentially ineligible for the TLB so he will need someone crazy.


    Point two towards it being a redeemed Mierin: A female is supposed to be the one actually melding the flows of the Callandor circle. Nynaeve is good, but who better than the one who actually drilled the Bore and has spent time experiencing it's effects to seal it back up?

    Alivia may be strong, and she may help him out (possibly as a separate action? maybe she will step in during or after?) but she's childlike in anything but destructive weaves (they are patching the Bore, not destroying it) and a former Forsaken is going to be the most skilled female possible.

    *edit* Not to be forgotten, the viewing that showed Callandor being wielded by a black hand. Whose hand is blacker than the Daughter of the Night?

    SparserLogic on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.

    Alivia is an excellent point. I had forgotten about that particular viewing.

    That said, hasn't it been established re:Moraine that one's innate channeling ability affects the actual volume one can channel even if they use an angreal that drastically increases their bandwidth?

    i.e. Rand and a weak Asha'man using the same Angreal can both channel at, say, 200wps (weaves per second, assuming the same skill level) but overall the Asha'man will fall over dead after 2gw (giga weaves) while Rand can continue on up to 200gw.

    Thus Moraine is now essentially ineligible for the TLB so he will need someone crazy.


    Point two towards it being a redeemed Mierin: A female is supposed to be the one actually melding the flows of the Callandor circle. Nynaeve is good, but who better than the one who actually drilled the Bore and has spent time experiencing it's effects to seal it back up?

    Alivia may be strong, and she may help him out (possibly as a separate action? maybe she will step in during or after?) but she's childlike in anything but destructive weaves (they are patching the Bore, not destroying it) and a former Forsaken is going to be the most skilled female possible.
    That and she always did care more about getting Rand/LTT on her side than actually serving the DO. Didn't she at one point suggest they just use the Choedan Kal to destroy the DO and rule the world together? I could see her coming back around for love or whatever. Especially after she's presumably been treated badly by Morridin.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • AetherAether Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    And lanfear is weaker too, maybe not Moirraine weak, but its been mentioned how some of the forsaken didn't know if Cydane was Lanfear because she was so much weaker. having said that, i wondered if she might be the third one as well. It depends if angreal/sangreal are additive or mulplicative when it comes to adding power

    Aether on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aether wrote: »
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    And lanfear is weaker too, maybe not Moirraine weak, but its been mentioned how some of the forsaken didn't know if Cydane was Lanfear because she was so much weaker. having said that, i wondered if she might be the third one as well. It depends if angreal/sangreal are additive or mulplicative when it comes to adding power
    I thought they mentioned they were surprised that Morridin had found someone nearly as strong as Lanfear in this Age.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aether wrote: »
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    And lanfear is weaker too, maybe not Moirraine weak, but its been mentioned how some of the forsaken didn't know if Cydane was Lanfear because she was so much weaker. having said that, i wondered if she might be the third one as well. It depends if angreal/sangreal are additive or mulplicative when it comes to adding power
    I thought they mentioned they were surprised that Morridin had found someone nearly as strong as Lanfear in this Age.

    According to the wiki she's apparently slightly weaker than Lanfear who was literally as strong as a woman can be. She was so strong, that even being slightly weaker she was still stronger than Graendal.

    I really think the key is the "black hand holding Callandor" prophecy. Its recent enough to be a deliberate foreshadowing by Sanderson in an attempt to make the "Lanfear's good now" events I am predicting at least slightly more intelligible.

    SparserLogic on
  • AetherAether Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Aether wrote: »
    Z0re wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Aether wrote: »
    Trade paperbacks all the way. They come out at the same time as the hardcover, without the hardcover price.

    So whats the deal with
    lanfear right at the end of the book? Is rand gonna save here or something? Is she going to be redeemed? What was the point?

    My money is on Sanderson liking the character, so she's going to get a reprieve.

    He's also mentioned a few times how much he likes Nynaeve, which would explain a lot of her incredibly awesome behavior over the last two books (even though RJ was also trending that way).

    My thought: I think Mierin was genuinely corrupted by being the one to accidentally open the Bore.

    I know that many people are assuming that she is taking Graendal's place and this is merely the latest attempt by TDO to trick Rand but I'm going to go against the grain and suggest that she might be the 2nd female in the final circle to wield Callandor.

    I see it being Nynaeve and Mierin along with Rand. Why not the newly-free Moraine? She's too weak now. She can't use the bracelet while using Callandor and she no longer has the ability to channel that amount of power unaided. That would also explain why she is weak now, as otherwise I see no purpose for it within the plot.
    You can use 2 or more Angreal at once, Rand did when he was fighting Asmodean over the Chodean Kal key. I personally lean towards Alivia anyways, Min viewed her as helping Rand to die and so far she hasn't done anything remotely like that.
    And lanfear is weaker too, maybe not Moirraine weak, but its been mentioned how some of the forsaken didn't know if Cydane was Lanfear because she was so much weaker. having said that, i wondered if she might be the third one as well. It depends if angreal/sangreal are additive or mulplicative when it comes to adding power
    I thought they mentioned they were surprised that Morridin had found someone nearly as strong as Lanfear in this Age.

    According to the wiki she's apparently slightly weaker than Lanfear who was literally as strong as a woman can be. She was so strong, that even being slightly weaker she was still stronger than Graendal.

    I really think the key is the "black hand holding Callandor" prophecy. Its recent enough to be a deliberate foreshadowing by Sanderson in an attempt to make the "Lanfear's good now" events I am predicting at least slightly more intelligible.
    i thought the "black hand" was shadar haran, since his name means "hand of the dark". I have know idea what he'd do with it though

    Aether on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    We have literally no idea how much Jordan did and how much Sanderson did. The ending is supposedly pretty much entirely Jordan though.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • sterling3763sterling3763 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Re: callandor
    We know Nynaeve will be one of the people helping Rand. Does the third have to be a woman? I'm just thinking that the "black hand" holding callandor could be some ashaman (Logain or Narishma).

    My personal favorite: It could also be Rand. Wouldn't it be interesting if the you had someone using saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand's ability to tap into the the TP is going to serve some purpose during the Last Battle.

    sterling3763 on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Re: callandor
    We know Nynaeve will be one of the people helping Rand. Does the third have to be a woman? I'm just thinking that the "black hand" holding callandor could be some ashaman (Logain or Narishma).

    My personal favorite: It could also be Rand. Wouldn't it be interesting if the you had someone using saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand's ability to tap into the the TP is going to serve some purpose during the Last Battle.

    I'm pretty sure Cadsuane said that it needs a circle of 1 man 2 women to be used stably.

    Tofystedeth on
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  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Re: callandor
    We know Nynaeve will be one of the people helping Rand. Does the third have to be a woman? I'm just thinking that the "black hand" holding callandor could be some ashaman (Logain or Narishma).

    My personal favorite: It could also be Rand. Wouldn't it be interesting if the you had someone using saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand's ability to tap into the the TP is going to serve some purpose during the Last Battle.



    Well they've been dropping pretty heavy-handed hints that its going to be two women.

    The TP is obviously going to be at least the outer layer of the patch, if not the entire thing. Thus Jordan's earlier statement that sealing TDO away with both saidar and saidin would taint them both, it has to be done with the TP. Very likely Callandor's "filterless" state will prevent TDO from stopping Rand from drawing as much TP as he wants. The women will control it so he doesn't go insane from essentially channeling the entire TDO.

    Something tells me we won't see any men involved with the actual sealing, I suspect all of the Asha'man will be corrupt by the time TLB comes along.

    SparserLogic on
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Re: callandor
    We know Nynaeve will be one of the people helping Rand. Does the third have to be a woman? I'm just thinking that the "black hand" holding callandor could be some ashaman (Logain or Narishma).

    My personal favorite: It could also be Rand. Wouldn't it be interesting if the you had someone using saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand's ability to tap into the the TP is going to serve some purpose during the Last Battle.



    Well they've been dropping pretty heavy-handed hints that its going to be two women.

    The TP is obviously going to be at least the outer layer of the patch, if not the entire thing. Thus Jordan's earlier statement that sealing TDO away with both saidar and saidin would taint them both, it has to be done with the TP. Very likely Callandor's "filterless" state will prevent TDO from stopping Rand from drawing as much TP as he wants. The women will control it so he doesn't go insane from essentially channeling the entire TDO.

    Something tells me we won't see any men involved with the actual sealing, I suspect all of the Asha'man will be corrupt by the time TLB comes along.
    You have it wrong. RJ has often refused to comment on what would happen if both women and men had tried sealing the bore. Most of the time he only offered possibilities. Near the end he did finally confirm what would happen though. If both genders work together then both sides would be protected from the ill effects. While its possible rand still can touch the TP I'm assuming that he's cut off. Rand says in ToM that the Dark One was close to having him. The true Power was probably an attempt to corrupt him and now that he's incorruptible. The TP is directly controlled by the Dark One, revocable at any time.

    nightmarenny on
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  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    He actually makes vague hints against that point twice in the latest book.

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  • AetherAether Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Re: callandor
    We know Nynaeve will be one of the people helping Rand. Does the third have to be a woman? I'm just thinking that the "black hand" holding callandor could be some ashaman (Logain or Narishma).

    My personal favorite: It could also be Rand. Wouldn't it be interesting if the you had someone using saidin, saidar and the True Power. Rand's ability to tap into the the TP is going to serve some purpose during the Last Battle.



    Well they've been dropping pretty heavy-handed hints that its going to be two women.

    The TP is obviously going to be at least the outer layer of the patch, if not the entire thing. Thus Jordan's earlier statement that sealing TDO away with both saidar and saidin would taint them both, it has to be done with the TP. Very likely Callandor's "filterless" state will prevent TDO from stopping Rand from drawing as much TP as he wants. The women will control it so he doesn't go insane from essentially channeling the entire TDO.

    Something tells me we won't see any men involved with the actual sealing, I suspect all of the Asha'man will be corrupt by the time TLB comes along.
    You have it wrong. RJ has often refused to comment on what would happen if both women and men had tried sealing the bore. Most of the time he only offered possibilities. Near the end he did finally confirm what would happen though. If both genders work together then both sides would be protected from the ill effects. While its possible rand still can touch the TP I'm assuming that he's cut off. Rand says in ToM that the Dark One was close to having him. The true Power was probably an attempt to corrupt him and now that he's incorruptible. The TP is directly controlled by the Dark One, revocable at any time.
    When he went into Far Madding to talk to the borderlanders he made mention he was only stopped from channeling saidin, so he probably still has TP priviledges, probably through his link to Morridin/Ishy

    Aether on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    He actually makes vague hints against that point twice in the latest book.

    Like his vague threat when they have him shield in the White Tower.

    I suspect that so long as his soul is fused with Morridin he will have access to the TP.

    SparserLogic on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    He actually makes vague hints against that point twice in the latest book.

    Like his vague threat when they have him shield in the White Tower.

    I suspect that so long as his soul is fused with Morridin he will have access to the TP.

    That's the first, the second is when:
    He meets the Borderlanders.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    You can definately use multiple angreal in a ring to boost its power. They did it with the bowl of winds and they had like half a dozen angreals or more.

    azith28 on
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  • DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    We have literally no idea how much Jordan did and how much Sanderson did. The ending is supposedly pretty much entirely Jordan though.
    The audiobook version of The Gathering Storm had a little introduction from Sanderson saying that he had read the ending and how much he liked it and such, so that's definitely true.

    Darlan on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    azith28 wrote: »
    You can definately use multiple angreal in a ring to boost its power. They did it with the bowl of winds and they had like half a dozen angreals or more.

    Another good point...

    Still it seems like skill would be the determining factor at the end.

    That is, assuming he doesn't just invite everyone and their uncle to join the ring.

    SparserLogic on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Darlan wrote: »
    We have literally no idea how much Jordan did and how much Sanderson did. The ending is supposedly pretty much entirely Jordan though.
    The audiobook version of The Gathering Storm had a little introduction from Sanderson saying that he had read the ending and how much he liked it and such, so that's definitely true.

    I love the reading of that introduction, such energy in it, it makes Sanderson sound like some sort of mad genius.

    Also the bit at the end about how the book came about is really neat too, especially after how moving the finale of that book is. It's the best moment in the series after all.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    azith28 wrote: »
    You can definately use multiple angreal in a ring to boost its power. They did it with the bowl of winds and they had like half a dozen angreals or more.

    Another good point...

    Still it seems like skill would be the determining factor at the end.

    That is, assuming he doesn't just invite everyone and their uncle to join the ring.

    An absolutely full circle is 72 channellers with a minimum of 37 women and a maximum of 35 men. I hope we actually see one in the series though I am beginning to doubt that we will.

    Z0re on
  • SparserLogicSparserLogic Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    You can definately use multiple angreal in a ring to boost its power. They did it with the bowl of winds and they had like half a dozen angreals or more.

    Another good point...

    Still it seems like skill would be the determining factor at the end.

    That is, assuming he doesn't just invite everyone and their uncle to join the ring.

    An absolutely full circle is 72 channellers with a minimum of 37 women and a maximum of 35 men. I hope we actually see one in the series though I am beginning to doubt that we will.

    Do we have any idea how LTT even managed to seal the Bore originally with his 100 companions if they were all men?

    Did they all do the same thing at the same time or something? How would that even work, it would be like knitting a sweater with 200 needles all trying to manipulate the yarn at the same time.

    SparserLogic on
  • Yakumo FujiiYakumo Fujii Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Z0re wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    You can definately use multiple angreal in a ring to boost its power. They did it with the bowl of winds and they had like half a dozen angreals or more.

    Another good point...

    Still it seems like skill would be the determining factor at the end.

    That is, assuming he doesn't just invite everyone and their uncle to join the ring.

    An absolutely full circle is 72 channellers with a minimum of 37 women and a maximum of 35 men. I hope we actually see one in the series though I am beginning to doubt that we will.

    Do we have any idea how LTT even managed to seal the Bore originally with his 100 companions if they were all men?

    Did they all do the same thing at the same time or something? How would that even work, it would be like knitting a sweater with 200 needles all trying to manipulate the yarn at the same time.

    Most of them were probably fighting off shadowspawn and the Forsaken while only LTT and the elite of the elite were doing the sealing.

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  • PaperPrittPaperPritt Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    Darlan wrote: »
    We have literally no idea how much Jordan did and how much Sanderson did. The ending is supposedly pretty much entirely Jordan though.
    The audiobook version of The Gathering Storm had a little introduction from Sanderson saying that he had read the ending and how much he liked it and such, so that's definitely true.

    I love the reading of that introduction, such energy in it, it makes Sanderson sound like some sort of mad genius.

    Also the bit at the end about how the book came about is really neat too, especially after how moving the finale of that book is. It's the best moment in the series after all.

    I can expand on that a little since i had the luck of meeting Sanderson -who is by the way an extremly cool dude- yesterday (along with 100 other people) during a signing he did in a parisian bookshop.

    What he explained is that he had access to something like a tousand pages (i think?) worth of material, but it was extremly disparate. Some scenes were entirely written, some chapters were fully explained but only briefly outlined, some characters stories were hinted at (think "okay at some point Rand does this...." or "at some point xxx happens to xxx character") without any other note attached to those bits.

    So to use his words what he used was a jigsaw puzzle with lots of pieces missing, and a lot of pieces fractured into a tons of tiny bits, with some of those bits sometimes missing.

    He confirmed that the ending had already entirely been written by Jordan. If people have more question i can try to answer them since he covered a lot of things regarding the Wheel of Time books.

    PaperPritt on
  • WappaduWappadu Registered User regular
    edited November 2010
    The one thing that bugs me above everything else as this series concludes is the lack of respect that 90% of Jordan's world shows to the impending Last Battle and even the Dark One itself. The various infighting between and inside of nations made for some good reading in the earlier books, but my suspension of disbelief regarding what motivates some of these people is wearing very thin now at the end.

    We read hundreds of pages worth of planning for how some ruler or power bloc is trying to be positioned following the Last Battle, but I'll be damned if they've got more than a one sheet memo for Tarmon Gaidon, probably nothing more than:

    "Stab any Trolloc we see. Shoot any Fade we see. Bend over for anything scarier and hope the Dragon has it won by then."

    Food stores going bad overnight and 9 out of 10 farms failing should be enough of a wake-up call for anybody to re-evaluate their priorities. These characters have that, plus honest to god monster attacks, ungodly weather, and to top it off "bubbles of evil" that murder entire towns are well known and documented occurrences.

    Am I naive to expect these characters to be acting differently? Maybe the Forsaken and darkfriends have been a lot more effective at sowing chaos than we've been shown so far, or maybe these people just put that much faith in the Dragon Reborn, but their preparation has just been appallingly half-hearted.

    Wappadu on
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