Wheel of Time: Towers of Midnight

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  • AddaAdda Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    shadowane wrote: »
    It doesn't help us, but Sanderson is really annoyed by this behavior and has said he's looking into it. Unfortunately Jordan's wife seems to be sort of terrible with this stuff as does his publisher.

    edit: Wait, what country are you talking about? It's $12.99 in the US whereas the hardcover is $16.24.

    On amazon.co.uk the hardcover is £5.73 (rrp 20) and the ebook is £10.49 .

    Won't rant about it here but I'm really confused how the agency model for price fixing ebooks is legal as it makes competitor pricing impossible.

    Adda on
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  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Finished ToM.
    Gogo Jesus-Rand. About damn time.

    Aviendha's vision of the future was depressing as all hell, and a real oh shit moment for me. It'll be a neat twist for the world to actually go to shit after the last battle.

    Still, the pacing still felt far too slow. Perhaps because the plot threads being wrapped up started books ago, but goddamn it seems nothing can be done to remove the damage the snail speed pace book 7 onwards caused.

    Best moments were Perrin 1-upping Mary Sue to the max in the White Tower, and Verin completely failing with the letter to Mat.

    Worst was the Mat's and Perrin's storylines dragging on for a whole 'nother book i.e. just get going to the damn snake/fox tower already god, what was said last page about people still not believing Rand is the Dragon reborn.

    Another thing I really hate about storylines in general, situations were you as the reader, or another character, knows something that the character's pov doesn't. It just makes said character look stupid to me, and this series had it in spades.

    Blurbl on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Blurbl wrote: »
    Finished ToM.
    Gogo Jesus-Rand. About damn time.

    Aviendha's vision of the future was depressing as all hell, and a real oh shit moment for me. It'll be a neat twist for the world to actually go to shit after the last battle.

    Still, the pacing still felt far too slow. Perhaps because the plot threads being wrapped up started books ago, but goddamn it seems nothing can be done to remove the damage the snail speed pace book 7 onwards caused.

    Best moments were Perrin 1-upping Mary Sue to the max in the White Tower, and Verin completely failing with the letter to Mat.

    Worst was the Mat's and Perrin's storylines dragging on for a whole 'nother book i.e. just get going to the damn snake/fox tower already god, what was said last page about people still not believing Rand is the Dragon reborn.

    Another thing I really hate about storylines in general, situations were you as the reader, or another character, knows something that the character's pov doesn't. It just makes said character look stupid to me, and this series had it in spades.

    It's the fucking worst. The amount of outright deception and lying in this series when everyone having the information they're trying to get would be useful blows my mind.

    I finished book 10 a few days back and I swear 90% of the of "Oh god what's happening?!?!" taking place during that book could have been solved with a few hours worth of Traveling to important characters and telling them that
    "*NO*, the Forsaken do not have a superweapon, and oh yeah, no more taint"

    Vincent Grayson on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, the Aes Sedai are the cause of most of it. They wouldn't believe Rand no matter what he said and they're all too arrogant and dumb as bricks or both. And it's only been like a month or something since book 7. Not that travelling wouldn't be really helpful, but there's a few mitigating details to the whole thing. But mainly it's the women screwing things up. Hell, even that
    Queen sworn to Perrin
    seems to be plotting against them or possibly just arrogant and ungrateful and scheming...like most of the other women...

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I've always found the whole "We're acting on incomplete information, and our own pride/arrogance/misconceptions is colouring our actions to a degree where what we're doing is directly harmful to our ultimate cause" one of the more human aspects of any story. This isn't to say that it doesn't piss me off, but I think there's a level of realism to it. It makes the characters more people - with their own agenda's beliefs and ideas - rather than facets used to tell different parts of the story.
    For instance, there was essentially an Aiel cabal trying to push Aviendha into Rands bed because they believed it would make him more alert to save Aiel. The world is ending, you - far more than any other political entity on the planet - believe This Is The Guy and you busy yourself and him by trying to make him sleep with some girl because if he manages to save the world, maybe your slice of it will be somewhat larger.
    Much like in real life, no one really gives a shit about "the bigger picture", they just want to get themselves and what they care about to the next frame.

    Calixtus on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    That's like the only thing that WASN'T stupid of the collective women in the book. They weren't trying to work against him, they were just trying to get him to like/appreciate/respect/save them more. That's just being smart. But the Aes Sedai's actions would collectively DOOM THE WORLD. Egwene's latest stupidity is on the verge of it on the verge of the damn Last Battle itself.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Whats the best part is that Egwene seems to devote so much effort into assuming Rands plan is fool hardy without ever actually thinking about it. Her line of thought is always "break the last seal? Stupid idea!" It makes me laugh so much that her entire plot for this book is based on a prejudice she seems sure she's beyond.

    nightmarenny on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    While we're on the topic of Egwene:
    The way she beat Mesaana was lame. Who cares how old the office she occupies is? That wouldn't factor into it. I guess Egwene used that to prop up her sense of self/will/whatever, but Mesaana should have just outright killed Egwene while she was babbling. If Egwene had balefired her or something after getting out of the adam that have worked better. Though, the glossary says Grendael was behind Mesaana's destruction, so maybe I missed something?

    And the glossary reveals Asmodean's killer, too!

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • LindenLinden Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    While we're on the topic of Egwene:
    The way she beat Mesaana was lame. Who cares how old the office she occupies is? That wouldn't factor into it. I guess Egwene used that to prop up her sense of self/will/whatever, but Mesaana should have just outright killed Egwene while she was babbling. If Egwene had balefired her or something after getting out of the adam that have worked better. Though, the glossary says Grendael was behind Mesaana's destruction, so maybe I missed something?
    The presence of the dreamspike threw Mesaana's plans off drastically.

    Linden on
    What if this weren't a rhetorical question?
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Linden wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    While we're on the topic of Egwene:
    The way she beat Mesaana was lame. Who cares how old the office she occupies is? That wouldn't factor into it. I guess Egwene used that to prop up her sense of self/will/whatever, but Mesaana should have just outright killed Egwene while she was babbling. If Egwene had balefired her or something after getting out of the adam that have worked better. Though, the glossary says Grendael was behind Mesaana's destruction, so maybe I missed something?
    The presence of the dreamspike threw Mesaana's plans off drastically.

    And as they explained an incredible number of times, she's not good at improvising.

    Taramoor on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It didn't require any quick thinking beyond CHANNEL EVERYONE TO DEATH ASAP. Far as we know she could have pulled that off against 1 person easily. Eh, I just hate Egwene. :P

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    ey ey, spoiler tags!

    I'm waiting for the e-book version :( Which is 'somewhere in february' now.
    Hopefully before the 14th as I'll be travelling for 22 hours

    Finally I'll have a device with a battery I can rely on for the entire trip :)

    Alegis on
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I didn't see the entry in the glossary about Asmodean's killer. Can someone put it into spoilers for me? Thanks!

    shadowane on
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  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    shadowane wrote: »
    I didn't see the entry in the glossary about Asmodean's killer. Can someone put it into spoilers for me? Thanks!
    Grendael
    Moridin alludes to it rather subtley in the text proper.

    Z0re on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    It didn't require any quick thinking beyond CHANNEL EVERYONE TO DEATH ASAP. Far as we know she could have pulled that off against 1 person easily. Eh, I just hate Egwene. :P


    No because Channeling is useless in Dreamland unless the person your affecting believes it can affect them. Once Perrin pulled the unraveling of the balefire thing, and Egwene understood this, (And Messana did not...which makes sense as the forsaken are identified with being powerful channelers), its a very believable outcome. Lanfear may not have been caught this way, but even Mogheidren who was said to be a master of dreamland was still trapped in this same way.

    While i suppose i can understand the hatred I dont see it fairly directed at Egwene... Its a general hatred that should be directed at the self-importance of the aes sedai. I see them as being massively important in the overall scheme of saving the world but they seem to think their piece is much bigger then the dragons, which is where the hubris comes in. Egwene is actually quite correct in the importants of having a unified white tower rather then a broken one.

    azith28 on
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  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Egwene's overall goals are fine. But she has the same exact problem as every other Aes Sedai practically has: Her arrogance and I Know Best outlook makes her do stupid things when she goes to achieve those goals. Elayne, as you'll notice was pointed out in this very book in the story more than once, has the same exact problem. Not coincidentally, she's an Aes Sedai too. They are of course most of the females that we see. Though it seems most of the women think this way, the few who don't just make it stand out more.

    Things would have turned out so differently if Egwene got herself stilled or something, now wouldn't it?
    And now she's going to start a damn war. Brain dead.

    And I'll just have to accept what happened in Dreamland since we have murky details on how it works from book to book.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So... what did the title of the book actually refer to? I thought that it would refer to the spires in the Snake/Fox place, but that doesn't feel right.

    And yeah, a big part of my disapointment for this book is that all the characters are all on different pages all the damn time. I loved the scenes were the characters actually met back up with eachother, if only for the 'Thank god, they'll stop puzzling over and over about stuff I already know the meaning of' feeling.

    And I just feel that Noal was such a wasted opportunity,
    Just going and dieing when the characters knew who he was, when THE READER HAD KNOWN FOR ABOUT 3 BOOKS.

    Blurbl on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Blurbl wrote: »
    So... what did the title of the book actually refer to? I thought that it would refer to the spires in the Snake/Fox place, but that doesn't feel right.

    And yeah, a big part of my disapointment for this book is that all the characters are all on different pages all the damn time. I loved the scenes were the characters actually met back up with eachother, if only for the 'Thank god, they'll stop puzzling over and over about stuff I already know the meaning of' feeling.

    And I just feel that Noal was such a wasted opportunity,
    Just going and dieing when the characters knew who he was, when THE READER HAD KNOWN FOR ABOUT 3 BOOKS.

    The Towers of Midnight
    Referred to a lot of things actually. The prophetic dream Egwene had where the Forsaken were represented by Black towers. The Black Tower. The Towers of Midnight in Seanchan which finally fell and threw the country into full on chaos.

    Z0re on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    The Seanchan as a whole are also as annoying as the Aes Sedai. So they're even more alike than has been established!

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • MrIamMeMrIamMe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    With Noal
    Did they ever explain why, as farstrider, he lived so long?

    MrIamMe on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    He's not THAT old. He could be as young as mid 60's. Old for the world, but not like he'd need to be a channeler or anything.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So have we all taken the opportunity to enjoy the ToM eBook cover?

    http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/ccs_files/book_images/Towers_of_Midnight/13.TofM_notext.jpg

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  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I know the terrible covers are sort of a tradition, but goddamnit, that is such an awesome cover, I wish they put it on the hardcover.

    Ender on
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  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Ender wrote: »
    I know the terrible covers are sort of a tradition, but goddamnit, that is such an awesome cover, I wish they put it on the hardcover.

    Seriously, what the hell. Why are they still using whatever moron does the print covers?

    HamHamJ on
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  • iguanacusiguanacus Desert PlanetRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Ender wrote: »
    I know the terrible covers are sort of a tradition, but goddamnit, that is such an awesome cover, I wish they put it on the hardcover.

    Seriously, what the hell. Why are they still using whatever moron does the print covers?

    I can tell you in one word
    TRADITION!

    iguanacus on
  • Technicus RexTechnicus Rex All your base.Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Man that picture almost makes me like Perrin again.

    Technicus Rex on
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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'm finally on book 12, about halfway through and holy fucking shit is this an improvement. No more lengthy descriptions of shit I already know about, even descriptions of new places and characters are kept to a logical length.

    And I'm actually enjoying all the main characters again, though Perrin is still spending too much time worrying about stupid shit.
    Egwene's confrontation with Elaida was fucking great and I figured that'd be the high point for a while but then Rand goes and follows it up with being terrifying and badass all at the same time.
    I sure hope my copy of book 13 is here soon because I'm pretty sure I'll blaze through the rest of this one before the end of the week.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Book 13 is even better.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Book 13 is even better.

    How is that even possible? I actually had to put down my Kindle after reading that part with Rand because it was so goddamn intense I felt like I needed to reflect on it for a bit.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It just is. Nothing quite matches the height of book 12's ending in the next one but overall its a lot more enjoyable to read.

    Xenogears of Bore on
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  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    It just is. Nothing quite matches the height of book 12's ending in the next one but overall its a lot more enjoyable to read.

    All I know is that this has absolutely sold me on Sanderson and the next fantasy I read will probably be his stuff. Though I plan on taking a bit of break from fantasy once I finish book 13 since I've spent the last 4 months reading nothing but WoT.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I suggest starting with the Mistborn triology, then elantris, then The way of kings.
    Sanderson is quite simply going to be a legend, even without his work on the wheel of time.

    azith28 on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    He's not THAT old. He could be as young as mid 60's. Old for the world, but not like he'd need to be a channeler or anything.

    Jain Farstrider was around for the Fall of Malkier. Which, given Lan's age, was only like 40 years ago or something. So Jain could easily be in his 60s and been in his 20s during that time. Or he's in his 70s and was in his 30s back then or the like.

    shryke on
  • MrOlettaMrOletta Registered User
    edited January 2011
    azith28 wrote: »
    I suggest starting with the Mistborn triology, then elantris, then The way of kings.
    Sanderson is quite simply going to be a legend, even without his work on the wheel of time.

    Mistborn and Way of Kings were great, with (IMO) Elantris falling behind. Understandable to me since it was his first book.

    I loved Way of Kings, and I'm excited that it's only book #1. The wife and I were discussing how we had 10 more years of awesomeness to look forward to.

    MrOletta on
  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So I'm rereading book 1. It's wierd. The style of writing just feels completely different from the later books. Nearly all of the original cast are completely bland. Reading Min's visions about the group is awsome with foresight about what they mean. Jeez, the bit about Mat's eye on the scale was resolved 12 books later.

    The one thing that's biting me is how engaging the first book reads compared to 5-11. If Jordan had kept this up for those books... :(

    Blurbl on
  • Z0reZ0re Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    MrOletta wrote: »
    azith28 wrote: »
    I suggest starting with the Mistborn triology, then elantris, then The way of kings.
    Sanderson is quite simply going to be a legend, even without his work on the wheel of time.

    Mistborn and Way of Kings were great, with (IMO) Elantris falling behind. Understandable to me since it was his first book.

    I loved Way of Kings, and I'm excited that it's only book #1. The wife and I were discussing how we had 10 more years of awesomeness to look forward to.


    People should read Warbreaker, I liked it a lot more than Mistborn and its a pretty good self contained story if you don't want to get hooked on his new series yet.

    Z0re on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Good lord, this just keeps getting more insane! And I don't at all understand the complaints about Mat in book 12, he seems if anything, a much more interesting character now that he has far better dialogue.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Good lord, this just keeps getting more insane! And I don't at all understand the complaints about Mat in book 12, he seems if anything, a much more interesting character now that he has far better dialogue.

    /shudder

    shryke on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    Good lord, this just keeps getting more insane! And I don't at all understand the complaints about Mat in book 12, he seems if anything, a much more interesting character now that he has far better dialogue.

    /shudder

    What's this supposed to mean? I only ask because I'm most of the way through at this point and it seems like virtually every character is enjoying far better dialogue than I can recall in any of the previous books. Mat's just stood out because he finally sounds like the less-serious "normal" guy I felt like Jordan kept trying to claim he was without it ever feeling that way.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    shryke wrote: »
    Good lord, this just keeps getting more insane! And I don't at all understand the complaints about Mat in book 12, he seems if anything, a much more interesting character now that he has far better dialogue.

    /shudder

    What's this supposed to mean? I only ask because I'm most of the way through at this point and it seems like virtually every character is enjoying far better dialogue than I can recall in any of the previous books. Mat's just stood out because he finally sounds like the less-serious "normal" guy I felt like Jordan kept trying to claim he was without it ever feeling that way.

    Mat sounds like a fucking caricature of himself for big swaths of TGS. He sounds nothing like himself and more like Sanderson trying to make him a funny guy without getting the characters style of humor at all.

    And there's lots of cringe-worthy, extremely anachronistic dialogue in both of Sanderson's WOT entries. Like people calling each other "Pal", which is one I remember from both books.

    shryke on
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