Wheel of Time: Towers of Midnight

12526272931

Posts

  • XaevXaev Registered User
    edited January 2011
    I dunno, I find it impossible to have any attitude towards any of the Seanchan other than absolute hatred. Something to do with the whole slavery bit.

    Xaev on
    Steam - Lysus || XBL - Veax || PSN - Lysus || WoW - Lysus (Korgath - US) || Guild Wars - Lysus Yjirkar || Starcraft II - Lysus.781 || League of Legends - Lysus
    Feel free to add me on whatever network, it's always more fun to play with people than alone
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xaev wrote: »
    I dunno, I find it impossible to have any attitude towards any of the Seanchan other than absolute hatred. Something to do with the whole slavery bit.

    I couldn't agree more. If I were a character in WoT, I would make the genocide of the Seanchan my top priority.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Rand shouldn't have let her go when she made it clear she'd rather risk the world ending than not be a stupid bitch.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Rand shouldn't have let her go when she made it clear she'd rather risk the world ending than not be a stupid bitch.

    I was waiting for him to just say "fuck it" and balefire every goddamn Seanchan there.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Rand shouldn't have let her go when she made it clear she'd rather risk the world ending than not be a stupid bitch.

    I was waiting for him to just say "fuck it" and balefire every goddamn Seanchan there.

    I wonder if he can balefire Paendragon's corpse and make them have never existed.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Yeah, the was the most annoying thing about Rand's emo phase. He was hard in all the wrong ways. It's too bad we only have one more book. The chances of him slapping Tuon seem low.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • MrIamMeMrIamMe Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Chances seem high - Tuon sits on throne and he shows up and bitchslaps her.

    MrIamMe on
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I'd imagine Matt will be around with his amulet and he'd make a big show of putting her in her place publicly causing shit to change.

    Aridhol on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    All the guys are still hung up about hurting women, and it's going to require Toun getting her bell wrung enough to start channeling to snap her out of her insanity. So Matt will need some help. Egwene's been mainly useless so far and has the biggest I.O.U. re: the Seanchan, so she can do it.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Void SlayerVoid Slayer Very Suspicious Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    From the green pillars scene, it seems obvious Toun will be invited to the summit of kings and rand will bow to her, or he will secure a peace with the other monarchs then submit to her somehow, either before or after he faces the dark one.

    I think it is clear Rand's objective after the last battle is to create peace between everyone, whatever the cost.

    The actions of the various women may seem harsh, but honestly if men were doing the same things they would be called calculating or strong (even if tyrannical). I think these reactions to these characters is more of a indication of the state of our world, not a reflection on theirs.

    Void Slayer on
    He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    From the green pillars scene, it seems obvious Toun will be invited to the summit of kings and rand will bow to her, or he will secure a peace with the other monarchs then submit to her somehow, either before or after he faces the dark one.

    I think it is clear Rand's objective after the last battle is to create peace between everyone, whatever the cost.

    The actions of the various women may seem harsh, but honestly if men were doing the same things they would be called calculating or strong (even if tyrannical). I think these reactions to these characters is more of a indication of the state of our world, not a reflection on theirs.


    Our reactions are based on the women being stupid. Based on any world, real or fake. It's not the fact they're women, as you'll find most everyone doesn't have a problem with Min or Moiraine or a few others. For whatever reason they've been written as deserving a good smack. We're just all realizing it, as do some of the characters in the book (Matt, Birgette).

    And while Rand needs to do whatever he has to do to save the world, I hope to hell he bows to the Crystal Throne and not Toun and then blows the fucking thing to pieces in her face.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    From the green pillars scene, it seems obvious Toun will be invited to the summit of kings and rand will bow to her, or he will secure a peace with the other monarchs then submit to her somehow, either before or after he faces the dark one.

    I think it is clear Rand's objective after the last battle is to create peace between everyone, whatever the cost.

    The actions of the various women may seem harsh, but honestly if men were doing the same things they would be called calculating or strong (even if tyrannical). I think these reactions to these characters is more of a indication of the state of our world, not a reflection on theirs.


    Our reactions are based on the women being stupid. Based on any world, real or fake. It's not the fact they're women, as you'll find most everyone doesn't have a problem with Min or Moiraine or a few others. For whatever reason they've been written as deserving a good smack. We're just all realizing it, as do some of the characters in the book (Matt, Birgette).

    And while Rand needs to do whatever he has to do to save the world, I hope to hell he bows to the Crystal Throne and not Toun and then blows the fucking thing to pieces in her face.

    Nynaeve got a reprieve in the last few books as she started listening, thinking, etc.

    Elayne seems to have no understanding of, nor desire to learn about, other cultures, despite being in line for the throne of a country that is centrally located on the known continent. Seriously, I think Andor is bordered by every other country. Expecting people to listen to you is one thing, but expecting people you've just met who don't know you to follow your commands shows a lack of empathy that borders of psychopathic.

    Egwene, despite being the youngest of all the main characters, who has successfully gotten herself captured or kidnapped five times in two years, has somehow determined that she knows better than everyone else in the entire world about everything. Despite knowing that the oath rod cuts Aes Sedai lifespans by at least half, and that the oaths as they are are basically meaningless, still insists on using the damn thing.

    Faile. Seriously.

    The whole Mat/Tylin thing has been debated to death, but when I imagine Tylin I picture her as being played by Shoreh Aghdashloo so I don't worry about it too much.

    Aviendha I think can be excused based on the whole different cultures thing. She operates under a different set of rules.

    The behavior of the Wise Ones and the Aes Sedai can be understood, I think, because for the last thousand years people have simply deferred to them in every situation. After a while it seems like something you would just take for granted. It's stupid, but they're old and set in their ways.

    Birgitte, Verin, Moiraine, Aludra, not mention Min. Hell, most of the female cast is not that bad.

    It's just that Egwene and Elayne are the women who get the most dedicated chapters and storylines, and they are SO awful as human beings that they make us paint the others with a similar brush.

    Taramoor on
    nUzGRMY.gif
    twitch.tv/Taramoor
    @TaramoorPlays
  • AlegisAlegis Impeckable Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    So apparently the e-book is out monday. nice.

    I'll have to resist it until my presentation is done and keep it for my plane trip D:

    Alegis on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Egwene isn't *quite* as awful as Elayne these days, since she's gotten to do a lot of worthwhile stuff.

    But they're definitely both at the top of the "Holy shit, how can you be this stupid?" pile.

    I just got through the part in ToM where Elayne
    decides that Birgitte being out of the palace for a few minutes is the perfect time to try and impersonate a Forsaken and trick the black ajah ladies into revealing information.

    I don't think I've ever wanted a main character to bite it more than I did her right then.

    The major thing that still bothers me in this series is that in 13 books (well, I'm halfway through ToM), Jordan doesn't kill a single major character...it really makes the moments that are totally fucking awesome (of which there are many) less awesome because you always know that whoever will find a way out of this situation they're in. I'm not saying Martin's habit of killing a major character every few chapters is good either, but some sense of actual danger for these characters would be cool.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • BlurblBlurbl -_- Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Well, techically,
    Asmodean, Aviendha and Mat all got killed by Rahvin when Rand assaulted Caemlyn. :P

    Blurbl on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Blurbl wrote: »
    Well, techically,
    Asmodean, Aviendha and Mat all got killed by Rahvin when Rand assaulted Caemlyn. :P

    True, but like all other near-deaths, they're instantly fixed.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Most of the damn bad guys get resurrected too, which is far more annoying. Though, I like when the good guys get happy endings so dying kind of throws a wrench in that.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    I just finished it this afternoon. I'm pretty stoked to read the next one now. I'm glad a lot of the secrets and miscommunication and stuff has been resolved.

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • sterling3763sterling3763 Registered User regular
    edited January 2011
    Just an FYI, the kindle version of this will be available starting tomorrow.

    sterling3763 on
  • EnderEnder Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Egwene, despite being the youngest of all the main characters, who has successfully gotten herself captured or kidnapped five times in two years, has somehow determined that she knows better than everyone else in the entire world about everything. Despite knowing that the oath rod cuts Aes Sedai lifespans by at least half, and that the oaths as they are are basically meaningless, still insists on using the damn thing.

    I think Egwene got it right in regards to the oath rod. Remember, people have a fairly dim view of Aes Sedai already, and that's with them believing the three oaths hold them fairly well. Sure, it's well known that an Aes Sedai can twist words, but in general, when they say something, you know it has to be true.

    To remove the oaths from the Aes Sedai would be a disaster, I believe. It IS part of what makes them who they are, and they'd be hard-pressed to keep the loyalties of nations without them. Hard enough to trust someone who can kill you with their thoughts, imagine trying to trust them when you realize there's nothing preventing them from doing it.

    Ender on
    eahenryii wrote: »

    i've resorted to reading your posts in William Shatner's voice.

    I am now using the Christopher Walken voice.
  • khainkhain Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    At least regarding the first oath, I think you've got it wrong Ender. People dislike and don't trust Aes Sedai precisely becuase they swear to not lie and then do anything they possible can to circumvent that restriction to get what they want. The second oath, not to make weapons for men, at least from what I can remember seems to be completely useless since the only weapons I can recall being made are essentially normal weapons and while the third oath is important I'm not sure that is important enough to halve the lifespan of every Aes Sedai not to mention that those most likely to break it aren't under the oaths anyways. Also, we do have at least two examples of other societies having channelers not bound by the three oaths and in both cases they seem to be held in higher esteem despite the fact that they aren't bound by any oaths.

    khain on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, the Oath's are good in theory and horribly stupid in practice. The Aes Sedai are just too bull headed to see it, like in everything else. Though in Egwene's case I'll say it was one of the Forsaken messing with her mind, since the more AS bound to the oaths the better for the shadow and she sure changed her tune for no reason.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The Oaths are a terrible, terrible idea.

    But really the entire Aes Sedai ideology is a terrible, terrible idea.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The Oaths are a terrible, terrible idea.

    But really the entire Aes Sedai ideology is a terrible, terrible idea.

    Their entire "We own the One Power, noone else can have any" bullshit is the root of their problem.

    The oaths just exacerbate that because they get to act all superior about it.

    "But I'm Aes Sedai... I CAN'T lie!"

    "And yet you do everything you can to lie anyway."

    Taramoor on
    nUzGRMY.gif
    twitch.tv/Taramoor
    @TaramoorPlays
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Taramoor wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    The Oaths are a terrible, terrible idea.

    But really the entire Aes Sedai ideology is a terrible, terrible idea.

    Their entire "We own the One Power, noone else can have any" bullshit is the root of their problem.

    The oaths just exacerbate that because they get to act all superior about it.

    "But I'm Aes Sedai... I CAN'T lie!"

    "And yet you do everything you can to lie anyway."

    The root of their problem is that they went from a group dedicated to civic service to shadowy puppet-masters of the world.

    And not even good ones at that.

    Also, rampant sexism even beyond everyone else.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I'm so close to the end of ToM that I feel comfortable saying I'm done and holy shit was it awesome.

    I hope Sanderson is cranking away because now I can't wait for the final book.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    And then the second series starts!....

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Featuring the adventures of all the main characters' children in a world without magic! It's sure to be just as good!

    Reynolds on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • TaramoorTaramoor Storyteller Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Featuring the adventures of all the main characters' children in a world without magic! It's sure to be just as good!

    Except we've already seen the future and channeling abounds. Also trains.

    Taramoor on
    nUzGRMY.gif
    twitch.tv/Taramoor
    @TaramoorPlays
  • ReynoldsReynolds Gone Fishin'Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Taramoor wrote: »
    Reynolds wrote: »
    Featuring the adventures of all the main characters' children in a world without magic! It's sure to be just as good!

    Except we've already seen the future and channeling abounds. Also trains.

    "The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the [url="http://www.angelfire.com/de/dragonlance5thage/eric1.html]Fifth Age[/url] by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past..."

    Reynolds on
    uyvfOQy.png
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I seriously doubt there'll be anything after book 14 at this point.

    Had Jordan lived, maybe...but I can't see Sanderson continuing to write past the end of this story. He's got too much of his own stuff.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • ThePantsAssociationThePantsAssociation A million could-be years on a thousand may-be worldsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The things we do to make a DragonLance dig.

    ThePantsAssociation on
    Switch friend code: SW-1950-3244-0236
    Pokemon Go be my friend: 7527 9731 3512
  • TommattTommatt Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I still don't see how it gets wrapped up without feeling rushed. There's so still so many loose plot points and foretellings to happen yet.

    I can't believe Egwene after all her Awesomeness in TGS. She went back to being dumb awfully quick. And elayne is going to die while giving birth, shedding the dragons blood, or at the very least die. She thinks she's invincible. I

    Tommatt on
  • Karrde1842Karrde1842 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Tommatt wrote: »
    And elayne is going to die while giving birth, shedding the dragons blood, or at the very least die.

    I have been thinking something along these lines for awhile. Although not the part where she dies. Just giving birth. However, at this point I would probably be ok with her dying. She is just so....stupid.

    Karrde1842 on
  • Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Elayne is dumb and I hope she dies.

    As for wrapping things up, so much happened in the last two books that I'm willing to believe it'll be possible. I mean, how many pages does one really need for the Last Battle anyway? There's only so much one can write about a big battle with lots of armies, especially when the focus can and should be on the main characters.

    Vincent Grayson on
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    If any of the three is going to die, Ahvi is the most likely candidate.

    We know from her future glimpse that her own children are responsible for the seanchan taking over the world after the last battle.

    We know the wise ones were trying to get ahvi and rand together so he would 'know his own blood'. now that seems like it easily just means to prove to himself that hes aiel...however with rands 'blood' on the stone it seems to take on a new meaning.

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    What we actually say was Rand losing his newfound badassness and not wiping the Seanchan out. If Aviendha has to die for that to happen, so be it. Rand has too many women anyway and Min's the only one he spends time with. The others are clearly just taveeran shenanigans. So since someone is going to have to die just because it's the last book we can start with Elayne and Egwene (and Gawyn) and even though she's not too bad Aviendha.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    As far as the seanchan.....Assuming that ahvi's 'bad' future was just a 'possible' future because not everything happen as it should have...then i think whats going to happen is Mats going to blow the horn, the seanchan are going to see autur hawkwing and fall on there faces and auturs going to say Mat's his heir or decendant (as i suspect he is somehow...either by the memories or by blood), and say that his hatred of the AS were encouraged by darkfriends...so uncollar the women and Mats in charge now.

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, anything is possible, but since Matt hates Hawking in his memories it be awfully 'cowinkydinky', to use a made up word, for him to be tied directly to Hawking somehow. Hawking didn't recognize Matt, either. Though, there isn't any reason Hawking can't just decide Matt should be in charge anyway. He's the Hornblower, Tavareen, does have the memories of guys who put up a fight against Hawking, and has rougly one treoctogintillion times more common sense than all of the Seanchan combined. He'd make a fine ruler.

    Xeddicus on
    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Its not really a coincidence. We know Mats family is very old back from the eye of the world when he started using manetheran battle cries even before he saw the dagger or the doorway terangreal. we KNOW hes 'old blood'...but it was mostly assumed the blood was perhaphs of manetheran kings or lords. However we dont know that manetherans kings werent related to Hawkwing. Mat never remembers Being hawkwing, he just remembers meeting him. He has enough of hawkwings personality in that he is very wary of the power, but without the influence of a darkfriend to make him hate it enough to want to tear down the white tower or imprison the channelers.

    I was recently rereading the eye of the world and another thing i noticed which also explains the Olver/Geidal age/time question. When the three boys are in Shadar Logoth, and they are talking about mats calling of manetheran battle chants, one of them jokes that mat may be aemon reborn and Thom says to stop joking about that because people can be Reborn completely or join other peoples souls to be reborn that way.

    I think hawkwing was still bound to the horn in the great hunt, and joined mats soul fully afterward. if hes not a decendant, then i think hes currently housing hawkwings soul. that truth will be revealed (or the earlier theory) to the seanchan.

    azith28 on
    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
Sign In or Register to comment.