That still doesn't explain why you wouldn't use cooldowns anyway.
Besides, the sign of an actual good tank is one that actually knows when to and then uses their cooldowns correctly. Just standing there mashing heroic strike and shield slam and not using your cooldowns doesn't remotely make you a good player and isn't exactly something to brag about on a forum, it's quite the opposite.
Because we got it down the first time without being aware of all the mechanics and every successful time. Then I go to find out we're supposed to use cooldowns at a certain point or be instant-gibbed which never happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if I could take off my tank helm and slap on the halloween pumpkin helm and tank that successfully without cooldowns. But 10 mans are hard, right?
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Because we got it down the first time without being aware of all the mechanics and every successful time. Then I go to find out we're supposed to use cooldowns at a certain point or be instant-gibbed which never happens.
I wouldn't be surprised if I could take off my tank helm and slap on the halloween pumpkin helm and tank that successfully without cooldowns. But 10 mans are hard, right?
Honestly, I would just use shield wall when you're tanking him after the third inhale. It will make your healers' lives a lot easier, and like you said they deserve a break.
Nah, now that people are taking what I said completely out of context to the affect of "yeah that's odd I don't think I ever had to do that, yay for overgearing." I'm now going to test my big dick and be a bad player and take off my helm and use my pumpkin helm. At this point I'm going to spin around in circles going "I HAVE BLACK DICK" and make an emote "/me has slapped you in the face with his BBD" and then not pop shield wall.
We'll get him down, and then I'll brag in the forums instead of making some random comment about the oddity of not doing what others did and successfully doing the boss regardless.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
0
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
Nah, now that people are taking what I said completely out of context to the affect of "yeah that's odd I don't think I ever had to do that, yay for overgearing." I'm now going to test my big dick and be a bad player and take off my helm and use my pumpkin helm. At this point I'm going to spin around in circles going "I HAVE BLACK DICK" and make an emote "/me has slapped you in the face with his BBD" and then not pop shield wall.
We'll get him down, and then I'll brag in the forums instead of making some random comment about the oddity of not doing what others did and successfully doing the boss regardless.
Nah, now that people are taking what I said completely out of context to the affect of "yeah that's odd I don't think I ever had to do that, yay for overgearing." I'm now going to test my big dick and be a bad player and take off my helm and use my pumpkin helm. At this point I'm going to spin around in circles going "I HAVE BLACK DICK" and make an emote "/me has slapped you in the face with his BBD" and then not pop shield wall.
We'll get him down, and then I'll brag in the forums instead of making some random comment about the oddity of not doing what others did and successfully doing the boss regardless.
Reading this post, I thought I was back in the official forums.
Calm down, and for god's sake, think of the children.
Nah, now that people are taking what I said completely out of context to the affect of "yeah that's odd I don't think I ever had to do that, yay for overgearing." I'm now going to test my big dick and be a bad player and take off my helm and use my pumpkin helm. At this point I'm going to spin around in circles going "I HAVE BLACK DICK" and make an emote "/me has slapped you in the face with his BBD" and then not pop shield wall.
We'll get him down, and then I'll brag in the forums instead of making some random comment about the oddity of not doing what others did and successfully doing the boss regardless.
Reading this post, I thought I was back in the official forums.
Calm down, and for god's sake, think of the children.
I've made it to the point of no return. :winky:
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Eh, i dont see a problem with it. I mean there are more efficient ways of doing things, but sometimes whatever you are doing just works. And for bowens group and my group that tactic works. It was hectic, it was fun, we both cleared it with our respective groups. Could things be a little easier? Sure. But im sure there are a tonne of fights out there that you can do little things to make things easier but you will get through it anyway so who cares. The only time you truly learn in this game is when you wipe, and then you try and figure out what went wrong and what you can do better.
Absolutely not. Marrowgar's voice is so pedophile-ish. It creeps me out everytime.
Falric (from HoR) is worse.
Despair... So delicious.
Imagine hearing that voice behind you in a dark alleyway.
Falric has the best boss voice in the game. You can hear his lips quivering at the thought of licking the fevered sweat off your brow as you hang upside down in his torture bordello.
** Honestly.. what should be the dps requirements for an icc10 run? Say toc25 geared
Toc 25 geared is plenty. Especially if you have GOOD DPS that knows what the hell they are doing. Me and a enh shaman and a Moonkin more or less carry the DPS in our 10 mans. My guild in general has hella fine melee and piss poor range. There is no reason I should be #1 on Professor Putricide /grumble.
As long as you are above say.. 4.5k dps, you should be okay. If you can't kill Festergut and Rotface before the enrage, you are not geared enough for the instance. Saurfang is KINDA a dps check, but if your range are really on the ball I can see you getting past it. We didn't get a single mark up this week and we 2 healed it. A good holy paladin can solo heal it. We had an undergeared (29k mana buffed) holy pally alt single heal it last week.
How far have you guys progressed in it? If you have a holy paladin that is capable I would reccomend solo healing it if you are a little short on the DPS requirments. As long as you keep it at 1 mark it shouldn't be an issue. The entire encoutner can (more or less) be holy light spammed.
Yeah 7 dps, 2 tanks, and 1 healer make that fight laughable.
When I two heal that fight I typically never go under 20k mana on my druid. Thankfully I am usually the healer with the best dps offspec so I don't have to heal that fight.
On 25 man I usually put on the Abracadaver and throw out some moonfire and wrath until the first mark is about to go out.
10 man ICC gear req is only TOC 10, you can go in with just Triumph gear and do fine if you know the fights.
25 man ICC gear req is TOC 25.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
** Honestly.. what should be the dps requirements for an icc10 run? Say toc25 geared
Toc 25 geared is plenty. Especially if you have GOOD DPS that knows what the hell they are doing. Me and a enh shaman and a Moonkin more or less carry the DPS in our 10 mans. My guild in general has hella fine melee and piss poor range. There is no reason I should be #1 on Professor Putricide /grumble.
As long as you are above say.. 4.5k dps, you should be okay. If you can't kill Festergut and Rotface before the enrage, you are not geared enough for the instance. Saurfang is KINDA a dps check, but if your range are really on the ball I can see you getting past it. We didn't get a single mark up this week and we 2 healed it. A good holy paladin can solo heal it. We had an undergeared (29k mana buffed) holy pally alt single heal it last week.
How far have you guys progressed in it? If you have a holy paladin that is capable I would reccomend solo healing it if you are a little short on the DPS requirments. As long as you keep it at 1 mark it shouldn't be an issue. The entire encoutner can (more or less) be holy light spammed.
Honestly just playing well will take care of most fights. NOT ALL!.
You can do 4.5k dps in ulduar 10/25m gear without hard modes. ( I know I will take some shit for saying it but it's true.) People forget how much raid buffs help. For example I can do about 4k to 4.5k kitty dps on a target dummy. In a 25M raid on a stationary target I do 7k to 7.5k. So gear requiements are lax in Wrath.
It really is up to the player to understand how to gear for raiding and how well they understand thier class and role. Lastly it's up to the Raid Leader to build a group that has a good compostion so everyone gets some sort of buff beyond fort, mark, and kings.
Good point. Synergy? In my raid?
To show how strong synergy is, here is my example. I do almost 5k on a target dummy. I do 9k in 25 man, and about 8-8.5 in 10mans. Some classes luck out more then others. Enh shaman damage really skyrockets in 25man. For example, here are the (I may have missed a few?) melee dps buffs:
I think thats it. Kings + mark you can buy scrolls for. I probably missed some though, but as you can tell there are lots and lots of awesome raid buffs.
** Honestly.. what should be the dps requirements for an icc10 run? Say toc25 geared
Toc 25 geared is plenty. Especially if you have GOOD DPS that knows what the hell they are doing. Me and a enh shaman and a Moonkin more or less carry the DPS in our 10 mans. My guild in general has hella fine melee and piss poor range. There is no reason I should be #1 on Professor Putricide /grumble.
As long as you are above say.. 4.5k dps, you should be okay. If you can't kill Festergut and Rotface before the enrage, you are not geared enough for the instance. Saurfang is KINDA a dps check, but if your range are really on the ball I can see you getting past it. We didn't get a single mark up this week and we 2 healed it. A good holy paladin can solo heal it. We had an undergeared (29k mana buffed) holy pally alt single heal it last week.
How far have you guys progressed in it? If you have a holy paladin that is capable I would reccomend solo healing it if you are a little short on the DPS requirments. As long as you keep it at 1 mark it shouldn't be an issue. The entire encoutner can (more or less) be holy light spammed.
We are up to rotface?(guy with the slimes). We one shot everything else. Not 1 mark up on saurfang, but thats due to a disc priest. Ive solo healed deathwhisper and pretty much saurfang(on another attempt). Im pretty well geared for it. Luccianna on Alexstrasza. Get up to almost 36k buffed. Rotface is the issue for us right now. Best attempt we brought him down to 300k. I guess i dont understand the encounter. Is there a threshold where he starts injecting you faster? Is it health based or time based. Health based then dps doesnt matter, just execution. Time based, dps would be more of an issue along with execution. Its the only fight where we've gone to 3 healers, tho i dont really think thats necessary. Our priest stayed disc, tho might tell him to try holy and get our shammy to stay dps. Its getting me annoyed. Im not sure what we can do to get over this hump other then being lucky or excessive dps down the road.
Good point. Synergy? In my raid?
To show how strong synergy is, here is my example. I do almost 5k on a target dummy. I do 9k in 25 man, and about 8-8.5 in 10mans. Some classes luck out more then others. Enh shaman damage really skyrockets in 25man. For example, here are the (I may have missed a few?) melee dps buffs:
I think thats it. Kings + mark you can buy scrolls for. I probably missed some though, but as you can tell there are lots and lots of awesome raid buffs.
You are forgetting increased melee haste with improved windfury / Icy talons as well as further armor reduction due to faerie fire / warlock curse. I believe those two are smaller then sunder, but stack with sunder.
Hero is best served off the start regardless because it will get its maximum effect. Of course if you are as lucky as me you will have hysteria, tricks, every haste buff in the game, then get the first slime :P.
Yeah all the research for Rotface shows that it is completely time based. It's something like 12s, 12s, 10s, 10s, 8s, 8s for a while and just gets faster. I'm unsure on the bottom time or how long he does each period but it's definitely not health based.
So then.. im getting confused. Its time dependant? So then im not sure what we are doing wrong. We always get to im getting around 30% when he starts going nuts with the spawns. We can handle it at first, but then we get to a point where two people are injected at the same time and it starts getting all screwed up. I guess we just have to get our heads outta our ass and just learn to focus at that point.
Btw i say 5k dps, thats the whole instance. That most likely is inflated due to all the trash(aoe fest) we have. Tho as frustrating as it is to wipe, its a fun challenge and im sure all of us will give it a big loud F yea on vent when we do get him down.
**saw the post above. So in reality, this is more of a dps check than fester? I mean, you need more dps as you have people running in and out, and he goes nuts after a time. Whats the kill time you guys have gotten for him, so that i can judge how much or what we need to do.
Whats Hero? Is that some a retard version of Bloodlust?
Yes, it is. Poor alliance don't even get the fun "RAWR-rawr-RAWR!" sound or anything.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Festergut is a DPS cheque with minor raid co-ordination.
Rotface is a minor DPS cheque with major raid co-ordination.
The only difference is that one has an actual hard enrage while the other just overwhelmes you. Healing is harder on Fester as well.
Festergut is a DPS cheque with minor raid co-ordination.
Rotface is a minor DPS cheque with major raid co-ordination.
The only difference is that one has an actual hard enrage while the other just overwhelmes you. Healing is harder on Fester as well.
Cant see the logs at work, but yea.. thats the main issue. We are finding Fester a piece of cake compared to Rotface, and im finding it a lot harder to heal as well(as a paly). 2 healing Fester is a lot easier than 2 healing rotface. We will figure it out soon enough but it just eating at me right now lol and we wont go back to him till reset(tuesday)
Eh, i dont see a problem with it. I mean there are more efficient ways of doing things, but sometimes whatever you are doing just works. And for bowens group and my group that tactic works. It was hectic, it was fun, we both cleared it with our respective groups. Could things be a little easier? Sure. But im sure there are a tonne of fights out there that you can do little things to make things easier but you will get through it anyway so who cares. The only time you truly learn in this game is when you wipe, and then you try and figure out what went wrong and what you can do better.
"not using abilities that reduce damage" can hardly be called a tactic. More like lack of a tactic, and if you managed to do the fight anyway good for you but you might as well use the cooldowns in future.
Especially as a paladin since we have the strongest 2minute tank cooldown.
Festergut is a DPS cheque with minor raid co-ordination.
Rotface is a minor DPS cheque with major raid co-ordination.
The only difference is that one has an actual hard enrage while the other just overwhelmes you. Healing is harder on Fester as well.
Cant see the logs at work, but yea.. thats the main issue. We are finding Fester a piece of cake compared to Rotface, and im finding it a lot harder to heal as well(as a paly). 2 healing Fester is a lot easier than 2 healing rotface. We will figure it out soon enough but it just eating at me right now lol and we wont go back to him till reset(tuesday)
If you've got decent Tank/Healers so your tank can survive Festergut at 3 inhales, then all you need is good DPS and the fight is a fucking cake walk. It's basically a gear check. Got the gear, fight is easy.
Rotface, on the other hand, isn't as hard a check on the DPS or the Tanks but is alot harder because it requires alot more coordination.
shryke on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Festergut is a DPS cheque with minor raid co-ordination.
Rotface is a minor DPS cheque with major raid co-ordination.
The only difference is that one has an actual hard enrage while the other just overwhelmes you. Healing is harder on Fester as well.
If you don't mind I'd like to backtrack this to Marrowgar, since we still spend a lot of time trying to kill him each week, time I'd rather spend farther in. Part of our trouble is tank heals, which since I'm a holy priest there's only so much I can do about. But I'm more interested in your dps chart.
How is your dps chart so smooth, especially considering most of your top DPSers are melee? During bladestorm it's would be a challenge just to stay in melee range, much less do anything resembling a rotation. I'm intrigued.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Most of us stay in. Personally, I pop feint (40% reduction in AOE damage taken) and just follow him around. Bonestorm really doesn't do a lot of damage. It's like 3k a tick (less possibly?) If your healers are up to it, you can easily do this too.
TheCrumblyCracker on
0
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Most of us stay in. Personally, I pop feint (40% reduction in AOE damage taken) and just follow him around. Bonestorm really doesn't do a lot of damage. It's like 3k a tick (less possibly?) If your healers are up to it, you can easily do this too.
Well that would do it. We're completely scattered during bone storm, to the point that I have trouble reaching everyone for my raid heals. I imagine if people stayed closer together, the melee could actually do something during it, and I'd probably be able to heal better too. But the fire would probably cause a lot more trouble than it does now. I'll bring it up next week.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
On Marrowgar we have all the ranged stack on melee so the spikes can be located and focused quicker. If you stand right under him the fire won't even hit you, and if someone accidentally crosses the center to his front they won't get cleaved because it hits whoever is closest to the MT, who should be at max range.
Posts
Besides, the sign of an actual good tank is one that actually knows when to and then uses their cooldowns correctly. Just standing there mashing heroic strike and shield slam and not using your cooldowns doesn't remotely make you a good player and isn't exactly something to brag about on a forum, it's quite the opposite.
I wouldn't be surprised if I could take off my tank helm and slap on the halloween pumpkin helm and tank that successfully without cooldowns. But 10 mans are hard, right?
Honestly, I would just use shield wall when you're tanking him after the third inhale. It will make your healers' lives a lot easier, and like you said they deserve a break.
We'll get him down, and then I'll brag in the forums instead of making some random comment about the oddity of not doing what others did and successfully doing the boss regardless.
Reading this post, I thought I was back in the official forums.
Calm down, and for god's sake, think of the children.
I've made it to the point of no return. :winky:
Falric has the best boss voice in the game. You can hear his lips quivering at the thought of drinking blood out of your emptied skull.
Toc 25 geared is plenty. Especially if you have GOOD DPS that knows what the hell they are doing. Me and a enh shaman and a Moonkin more or less carry the DPS in our 10 mans. My guild in general has hella fine melee and piss poor range. There is no reason I should be #1 on Professor Putricide /grumble.
As long as you are above say.. 4.5k dps, you should be okay. If you can't kill Festergut and Rotface before the enrage, you are not geared enough for the instance. Saurfang is KINDA a dps check, but if your range are really on the ball I can see you getting past it. We didn't get a single mark up this week and we 2 healed it. A good holy paladin can solo heal it. We had an undergeared (29k mana buffed) holy pally alt single heal it last week.
How far have you guys progressed in it? If you have a holy paladin that is capable I would reccomend solo healing it if you are a little short on the DPS requirments. As long as you keep it at 1 mark it shouldn't be an issue. The entire encoutner can (more or less) be holy light spammed.
When I two heal that fight I typically never go under 20k mana on my druid. Thankfully I am usually the healer with the best dps offspec so I don't have to heal that fight.
On 25 man I usually put on the Abracadaver and throw out some moonfire and wrath until the first mark is about to go out.
I was able to put out adequate DPS in mostly Uld25/ToC10 gear.
25 man ICC gear req is TOC 25.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Honestly just playing well will take care of most fights. NOT ALL!.
You can do 4.5k dps in ulduar 10/25m gear without hard modes. ( I know I will take some shit for saying it but it's true.) People forget how much raid buffs help. For example I can do about 4k to 4.5k kitty dps on a target dummy. In a 25M raid on a stationary target I do 7k to 7.5k. So gear requiements are lax in Wrath.
It really is up to the player to understand how to gear for raiding and how well they understand thier class and role. Lastly it's up to the Raid Leader to build a group that has a good compostion so everyone gets some sort of buff beyond fort, mark, and kings.
To show how strong synergy is, here is my example. I do almost 5k on a target dummy. I do 9k in 25 man, and about 8-8.5 in 10mans. Some classes luck out more then others. Enh shaman damage really skyrockets in 25man. For example, here are the (I may have missed a few?) melee dps buffs:
5% Crit - Feral Druids, Fury Warriors
AP - Paladins, Warriors
Armor Reduction - Rogues, warriors
Physical Damage - Arms Warriors, combat rogues
Bleeds - Arms, Feral Druids
Crit Target Buff - Rets, Mutilate Rogues
We are up to rotface?(guy with the slimes). We one shot everything else. Not 1 mark up on saurfang, but thats due to a disc priest. Ive solo healed deathwhisper and pretty much saurfang(on another attempt). Im pretty well geared for it. Luccianna on Alexstrasza. Get up to almost 36k buffed. Rotface is the issue for us right now. Best attempt we brought him down to 300k. I guess i dont understand the encounter. Is there a threshold where he starts injecting you faster? Is it health based or time based. Health based then dps doesnt matter, just execution. Time based, dps would be more of an issue along with execution. Its the only fight where we've gone to 3 healers, tho i dont really think thats necessary. Our priest stayed disc, tho might tell him to try holy and get our shammy to stay dps. Its getting me annoyed. Im not sure what we can do to get over this hump other then being lucky or excessive dps down the road.
**Most of our dps hover around 5k**
Anything longer than 4 minutes tends to make the fight impossible.
You are forgetting increased melee haste with improved windfury / Icy talons as well as further armor reduction due to faerie fire / warlock curse. I believe those two are smaller then sunder, but stack with sunder.
Edit: Yeah minor armor is from any druid, regardless of spec.
I'm pretty sure he drops infections at about twice the speed once he hits 30%.
he may be by the time the fight has gone on that long but all the logs are showing it to be time dependant
Btw i say 5k dps, thats the whole instance. That most likely is inflated due to all the trash(aoe fest) we have. Tho as frustrating as it is to wipe, its a fun challenge and im sure all of us will give it a big loud F yea on vent when we do get him down.
**saw the post above. So in reality, this is more of a dps check than fester? I mean, you need more dps as you have people running in and out, and he goes nuts after a time. Whats the kill time you guys have gotten for him, so that i can judge how much or what we need to do.
Yes, it is. Poor alliance don't even get the fun "RAWR-rawr-RAWR!" sound or anything.
Rotface is a minor DPS cheque with major raid co-ordination.
The only difference is that one has an actual hard enrage while the other just overwhelmes you. Healing is harder on Fester as well.
/personal experience
http://worldoflogs.com/guilds/38317/
My scrubby guilds WOL.
I dunno, I kind of like our *CLANGYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAH*.
Cant see the logs at work, but yea.. thats the main issue. We are finding Fester a piece of cake compared to Rotface, and im finding it a lot harder to heal as well(as a paly). 2 healing Fester is a lot easier than 2 healing rotface. We will figure it out soon enough but it just eating at me right now lol and we wont go back to him till reset(tuesday)
I still have flashbacks when I hear BL going off. I have flashbacks to the painful Ogre stomping I was about to recieve in WC2.
"not using abilities that reduce damage" can hardly be called a tactic. More like lack of a tactic, and if you managed to do the fight anyway good for you but you might as well use the cooldowns in future.
Especially as a paladin since we have the strongest 2minute tank cooldown.
If you've got decent Tank/Healers so your tank can survive Festergut at 3 inhales, then all you need is good DPS and the fight is a fucking cake walk. It's basically a gear check. Got the gear, fight is easy.
Rotface, on the other hand, isn't as hard a check on the DPS or the Tanks but is alot harder because it requires alot more coordination.
If you don't mind I'd like to backtrack this to Marrowgar, since we still spend a lot of time trying to kill him each week, time I'd rather spend farther in. Part of our trouble is tank heals, which since I'm a holy priest there's only so much I can do about. But I'm more interested in your dps chart.
How is your dps chart so smooth, especially considering most of your top DPSers are melee? During bladestorm it's would be a challenge just to stay in melee range, much less do anything resembling a rotation. I'm intrigued.
Well that would do it. We're completely scattered during bone storm, to the point that I have trouble reaching everyone for my raid heals. I imagine if people stayed closer together, the melee could actually do something during it, and I'd probably be able to heal better too. But the fire would probably cause a lot more trouble than it does now. I'll bring it up next week.