I've got 575 defence, everything is dripping in the stuff. Hit is harder to get...
Maybe I feel like doing something different, and if it sucks, well all it takes is a 2 min trip (deathgate/hearth) and its sorted.
I am more likely going to have the tanking boots made, I have the mats already.
MrIamMe on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
What does hit have to do with Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Swordshattering.
Stoneskin Gargoyle is categorically better in every way in every situation unless they somehow come up with a situation where 1% avoidance is better than 2% stamina.
I can not understand going uholy for tanking in ICC.
If you're replying to DharmaBum's post, I'm pretty sure he's talking about DPS. And, yes, high end raiders seem to be flooding back to unholy since it does great single target damage and incomparable AoE damage.
I'm sticking with Blood since it's not like it's terrible or anything, and it seems that the ICC boss encounters don't really favor Unholy's AoEasymode like Anub and some of the Ulduar hard modes did.
What does hit have to do with Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Swordshattering.
Stoneskin Gargoyle is categorically better in every way in every situation unless they somehow come up with a situation where 1% avoidance is better than 2% stamina.
Which it never will be.
Keep in mind that SG's avoidance is added before DRs, whereas SS's is added after. Even so, Stoneskin is still better.
What does hit have to do with Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Swordshattering.
Stoneskin Gargoyle is categorically better in every way in every situation unless they somehow come up with a situation where 1% avoidance is better than 2% stamina.
Which it never will be.
Keep in mind that SG's avoidance is added before DRs, whereas SS's is added after. Even so, Stoneskin is still better.
That's incorrect. Stoneskin's avoidance is also added outside of diminishing returns.
After experiencing both they are pretty much the same. Some fights favour the stam, such as Marrowgar, some favour avoidance (I hate tanking you saurfang, so very, very much)
So best solution - 2 weapons, swap between.
MrIamMe on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Its not a choice between significant avoidance or stamina.
Its a choice between 2% stamina, which is a huge amount, and 1% avoidance. 1% avoidance is a trivial amount.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
What does hit have to do with Stoneskin Gargoyle vs Swordshattering.
Stoneskin Gargoyle is categorically better in every way in every situation unless they somehow come up with a situation where 1% avoidance is better than 2% stamina.
Which it never will be.
Keep in mind that SG's avoidance is added before DRs, whereas SS's is added after. Even so, Stoneskin is still better.
That's incorrect. Stoneskin's avoidance is also added outside of diminishing returns.
Stoneskin Gargoyle adds Defense skill. So as people mentioned, it's not affected by the DR in any way.
If you open your paper doll and look at the Skills tab, you'll notice a direct +25 on your Defense bar.
And no, you should never use Swordshattering instead. It has never been the case and probably won't ever be the case, unless Blizzard decides to double the Parry bonus on SS.
aunsoph on
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drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Oh man, thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm not really a scrub DK really, I'm not. I just tank enough anymore to pay attention to these details.
Stoneskin Gargoyle adds Defense skill. So as people mentioned, it's not affected by the DR in any way.
If you open your paper doll and look at the Skills tab, you'll notice a direct +25 on your Defense bar.
And no, you should never use Swordshattering instead. It has never been the case and probably won't ever be the case, unless Blizzard decides to double the Parry bonus on SS.
It might be a valid option in Cataclysm, where they claim they're moving away from the "tanks die in 1.2 seconds" design, and healer efficiency/mana mattering more, etc. Of course, maybe that's all pie in the sky song and dance and they'll fall back into how things have been since Ulduar, except with lower avoidance levels. So, basically, how things are in ICC.
Stoneskin Gargoyle adds Defense skill. So as people mentioned, it's not affected by the DR in any way.
If you open your paper doll and look at the Skills tab, you'll notice a direct +25 on your Defense bar.
And no, you should never use Swordshattering instead. It has never been the case and probably won't ever be the case, unless Blizzard decides to double the Parry bonus on SS.
It might be a valid option in Cataclysm, where they claim they're moving away from the "tanks die in 1.2 seconds" design, and healer efficiency/mana mattering more, etc. Of course, maybe that's all pie in the sky song and dance and they'll fall back into how things have been since Ulduar, except with lower avoidance levels. So, basically, how things are in ICC.
even if they do that, more HP will remain just as valuable as avoidance, since avoidance gets proportionally more useful the more of it you have, and we will apparently only have very low levels of avoidance in Cataclysm, so unless they tweak the numbers (which I'm sure they will) SSG will remain king.
Stoneskin Gargoyle adds Defense skill. So as people mentioned, it's not affected by the DR in any way.
If you open your paper doll and look at the Skills tab, you'll notice a direct +25 on your Defense bar.
And no, you should never use Swordshattering instead. It has never been the case and probably won't ever be the case, unless Blizzard decides to double the Parry bonus on SS.
It might be a valid option in Cataclysm, where they claim they're moving away from the "tanks die in 1.2 seconds" design, and healer efficiency/mana mattering more, etc. Of course, maybe that's all pie in the sky song and dance and they'll fall back into how things have been since Ulduar, except with lower avoidance levels. So, basically, how things are in ICC.
even if they do that, more HP will remain just as valuable as avoidance, since avoidance gets proportionally more useful the more of it you have, and we will apparently only have very low levels of avoidance in Cataclysm, so unless they tweak the numbers (which I'm sure they will) SSG will remain king.
SSG will have to be changed for Cataclysm as it is giving a stat that is no longer relevant, Defense.
I would suspect the tanking Runes will be adjusted come Cataclysm.
Yes, stuff will be changing, but GC has talked up a storm about them wanting tank gearing to have more depth than "moar stam." If we end up still having two tanking runeforges, and one is the "stam runeforge" and one is the "avoidance runeforge," and they actually wind up designing bosses that don't kill tanks in two hits, then there might actually be a choice between them.
Yes, stuff will be changing, but GC has talked up a storm about them wanting tank gearing to have more depth than "moar stam." If we end up still having two tanking runeforges, and one is the "stam runeforge" and one is the "avoidance runeforge," and they actually wind up designing bosses that don't kill tanks in two hits, then there might actually be a choice between them.
they don't need to do that. they just need to recognise the relative value of avoidance vs stamina and tune the numbers accordingly.
with SS at 4% parry and SSG at 3% avoidance + 2% stam, the numbers favour SSG. If SSG remained the same but SS was 6, 7, or even 8% parry, it would be superior.
I got my spec from EJ with both Dual wielding talents but am still unsure as to how much hit and expertise should a DW DK Tank have?
Always have at least 5% Hit, which caps your special melee attacks. More than that helps with your spells, but don't go out of your way to avoid Hit on stuff. After all, you might want a buffer zone in case you replace a previous piece that was loaded with Hit. I'd say the sweet spot is anywhere between 5%-8%.
As for Expertise, 26+ is good. Don't gem for it though, other than a +10 Expertise / +15 Stamina to activate your meta. The more you have it, the better, unless you manage to break 50+.
As for Expertise, 26+ is good. Don't gem for it though, other than a +10 Expertise / +15 Stamina to activate your meta. The more you have it, the better, unless you manage to break 50+.
Should one gem for it if they're not at the softcap though? If I switch all the excess exp/stam gems out for pure stam, I lose ~5 expertise (down to 21) and gain 60 stamina.
Coconut Monkey on
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LasbrookIt takes a lot to make a stewWhen it comes to me and youRegistered Userregular
I'd recommend getting the t9 helm for the expertise, you're really low. Other than switching out some other piece of t9 the only upgrade i've found with expertise is Might of the Ocean Serpent from the frost emblem vendor.
As for Expertise, 26+ is good. Don't gem for it though, other than a +10 Expertise / +15 Stamina to activate your meta. The more you have it, the better, unless you manage to break 50+.
Should one gem for it if they're not at the softcap though? If I switch all the excess exp/stam gems out for pure stam, I lose ~5 expertise (down to 21) and gain 60 stamina.
Try to only get Expertise from your gear. Don't gem for it unless you're not sacrificing too much Stamina due to a good socket bonus. (9 Stamina or higher.)
Well crud, I just switched to DW tanking (for heroics) and gemed some expertise in my yellow sockets with exp/hit or exp/defense gems to boost mine up a little. Sitting at 18 skill now. It didn't seem to hurt too bad in 5 mans or Naxx, but obviously that's not progression content.
I'd recommend getting the t9 helm for the expertise, you're really low. Other than switching out some other piece of t9 the only upgrade i've found with expertise is Might of the Ocean Serpent from the frost emblem vendor.
I'm running both of those instances daily. Ocean Serpent cloak was my planned Frost badge dump. I could actually buy the T9 helm right about... now, but I was going to wait for the 75 badge helm. I'm going to need to pick up a couple blue gems to activate my meta (when I eventually buy it), so I was going to drop Guardian's Dreadstones in my chest.
I'm also hoping to get an OEB at some point in the near future, which should help somewhat with expertise.
I love that axe. Slap a pair of 30 stam gems in it for epic tanking win.
If only that damn axe would drop for me! My 10m has killed Saurfang every week since he was released and the damn thing hasnt dropped. We've gotten the AGI ring like 65% of the time though.
I just got Saurfang's Axe last week, and I went back to Blood just because of that beautiful weapon.
I pestered our raid leader over and over to give it to me. It was an upgrade to him too, but he's a Paladin, and he's lined up to be the first in our guild to get the legendary.
Knowing our luck, that thing will never drop again either, so I'm glad I got it.
Posts
If you think 2% stamina is worth less than 1% avoidance i'm here to tell you thats a bad decision.
*shrug*
I do it.
Maybe I feel like doing something different, and if it sucks, well all it takes is a 2 min trip (deathgate/hearth) and its sorted.
I am more likely going to have the tanking boots made, I have the mats already.
Stoneskin Gargoyle is categorically better in every way in every situation unless they somehow come up with a situation where 1% avoidance is better than 2% stamina.
Which it never will be.
I'm sticking with Blood since it's not like it's terrible or anything, and it seems that the ICC boss encounters don't really favor Unholy's AoEasymode like Anub and some of the Ulduar hard modes did.
Keep in mind that SG's avoidance is added before DRs, whereas SS's is added after. Even so, Stoneskin is still better.
Steam: pazython
That's incorrect. Stoneskin's avoidance is also added outside of diminishing returns.
So best solution - 2 weapons, swap between.
Its a choice between 2% stamina, which is a huge amount, and 1% avoidance. 1% avoidance is a trivial amount.
what this guy said too
Steam: pazython
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
However, Stoneskin Gargoyle is not affected by that rule.
If you open your paper doll and look at the Skills tab, you'll notice a direct +25 on your Defense bar.
And no, you should never use Swordshattering instead. It has never been the case and probably won't ever be the case, unless Blizzard decides to double the Parry bonus on SS.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
even if they do that, more HP will remain just as valuable as avoidance, since avoidance gets proportionally more useful the more of it you have, and we will apparently only have very low levels of avoidance in Cataclysm, so unless they tweak the numbers (which I'm sure they will) SSG will remain king.
SSG will have to be changed for Cataclysm as it is giving a stat that is no longer relevant, Defense.
I would suspect the tanking Runes will be adjusted come Cataclysm.
parry (0 damage)
parry (0 damage)
dodge (0 damage)
1 shot (30,000 damage)
Someething like how block will be reducing a portion of the damage instead of a static number.
Parry (3000), dodge (3000)
Tank takes 24,000 damage
Same amount of damage can be incoming, just smooth the curve and we will see equivalence between health and avoidance be more noticeable.
Something, anything, so festergut doesnt just annhilate me :P
they don't need to do that. they just need to recognise the relative value of avoidance vs stamina and tune the numbers accordingly.
with SS at 4% parry and SSG at 3% avoidance + 2% stam, the numbers favour SSG. If SSG remained the same but SS was 6, 7, or even 8% parry, it would be superior.
Always have at least 5% Hit, which caps your special melee attacks. More than that helps with your spells, but don't go out of your way to avoid Hit on stuff. After all, you might want a buffer zone in case you replace a previous piece that was loaded with Hit. I'd say the sweet spot is anywhere between 5%-8%.
As for Expertise, 26+ is good. Don't gem for it though, other than a +10 Expertise / +15 Stamina to activate your meta. The more you have it, the better, unless you manage to break 50+.
I'd recommend getting the t9 helm for the expertise, you're really low. Other than switching out some other piece of t9 the only upgrade i've found with expertise is Might of the Ocean Serpent from the frost emblem vendor.
Also, if you're not trying to get Vambraces of Unholy Command or Malykriss Vambraces you really should be.
Steam
Try to only get Expertise from your gear. Don't gem for it unless you're not sacrificing too much Stamina due to a good socket bonus. (9 Stamina or higher.)
I'm running both of those instances daily. Ocean Serpent cloak was my planned Frost badge dump. I could actually buy the T9 helm right about... now, but I was going to wait for the 75 badge helm. I'm going to need to pick up a couple blue gems to activate my meta (when I eventually buy it), so I was going to drop Guardian's Dreadstones in my chest.
I'm also hoping to get an OEB at some point in the near future, which should help somewhat with expertise.
Now I use the axe off Saurfang in ICC10
I love that axe. Slap a pair of 30 stam gems in it for epic tanking win.
If only that damn axe would drop for me! My 10m has killed Saurfang every week since he was released and the damn thing hasnt dropped. We've gotten the AGI ring like 65% of the time though.
I pestered our raid leader over and over to give it to me. It was an upgrade to him too, but he's a Paladin, and he's lined up to be the first in our guild to get the legendary.
Knowing our luck, that thing will never drop again either, so I'm glad I got it.
I take my tanking VERY seriously.