Our DK tank is also drooling over that axe. However, me and our paladin have told him that we're rolling against him if it ever drops. Fury and Ret use 2 handers too, you undead bitches.
...Before anybody gets uppity about it, we're also cool with each other and nice guys. We would let him have it.
...Maybe...8-)
The Wolfman on
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
Our DK tank is also drooling over that axe. However, me and our paladin have told him that we're rolling against him if it ever drops. Fury and Ret use 2 handers too, you undead bitches.
...Before anybody gets uppity about it, we're also cool with each other and nice guys. We would let him have it.
...Maybe...8-)
Tell the Paladin to lay off. Armor Penetration is nearly useless for them, and that huge chunk of Expertise can help a DK (Especially a Blood DK Tank.) or a Warrior way more. It's not like they have a Glyph that gives them flat 10 Expertise anyway, right? :P
I'm no longer drooling over my Blade of Culling as I'm now the proud owner of a Bryntroll. As added bonus, this means I no longer need to hoard up frost emblems to buy 25 primordial saronite to get a 264 weapon and can start spending them on armor pieces.
I'll eventually gem and runeforge the old axe for tanking, but I'm already in the upper 30s for expertise in my tank gear, and that axe would put me at a ridiculous 50+. My tank weapon right now is that sword that drops off Marrowgar 10 and has like 100 hit rating. Considering I'm at like 4.5% hit without that sword, I'm going to have to wait for some good +hit tank items before I even consider switching.
So what should I spend my Badges of Triumph on? I'm sorry I'm asking but I truely have no idea (Ok well I do but it won't be optimal).
I bought the Sigil today well because the other one was useless since I'm currently Unholy. I'm hoping to go DW frost because I've always liked to dual wield but if I get a keeper 2 hander I'll stick with this build.
Unfortunately I've yet to discover a quick and easy way of weighing the efficiency of emblems. The best I've done, is get a program like Rawr, and compare any potential emblem item you want to buy to what you're wearing, take the EP value gain from that item and divide it by the emblem cost, and repeat for the other potential emblem items to find the most efficient purchase.
Barring that, it depends on how many emblems you have. However, I'll just make a wild guess that you have a safe bet in buying your first two pieces of Tier 9 to get the set bonus.
Unfortunately I've yet to discover a quick and easy way of weighing the efficiency of emblems. The best I've done, is get a program like Rawr, and compare any potential emblem item you want to buy to what you're wearing, take the EP value gain from that item and divide it by the emblem cost, and repeat for the other potential emblem items to find the most efficient purchase.
Barring that, it depends on how many emblems you have. However, I'll just make a wild guess that you have a safe bet in buying your first two pieces of Tier 9 to get the set bonus.
Also. Boo to my guild wanting me to put CoI on the blood beasts when we have 2 arcane mages who can easily put the 1 point into slow and the enhancement shammy who can totem dance.
Wow so in a unexpected turn of events I am now the holder of the tanking sword from Onyxia 10 man and Rimefang's Claw.
I'm also defense capped but I don't want to tank due to really low health. I'm curious is dual wielding those two tanks swords a better idea for DPS then the De-Raged Waraxe?
Probably not. DW builds rely on slow (2.6 or 2.7 swing speed) one handed weapons and you'll be losing a lot of DPS stats by switching to fast tanking weapons.
Fast is bad for us unless you find a fast weapon with high top end damage, in which case GIMME.
Check your skills, they are all based on weapon damage, and even if you are hitting fast, your strikes (blood/heart/scourge/oblit etc) are still hitting for less, as the top end damage is less.
Really, speed is immaterial compared to top end damage.
MrIamMe on
0
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
Honestly, just stick to Nerubian Carapace'd DPS weapons as a Frost Tank. There's a reason why Frost DPS uses slow weapons. Frost Tanks aren't the exception to this. If it'll fuck up your DPS as a DPS, it'll definitely ruin your threat output as a Tank. The extra defensive stats aren't worth it.
After all, standard DK tanks do juuust fine with any old 2h Weapon! As long as it has plenty of Stam, STR, and maybe +Hit and +Expertise, they'll do their job. This is the whole point of Nerubian Carapace.
That is some sexy stuff. I'll never find myself in any 25 man raids and it'll be awhile before my server starts seeing decent ICC10 pugs, so I can officially say that I'm jealous.
Honestly, just stick to Nerubian Carapace'd DPS weapons as a Frost Tank. There's a reason why Frost DPS uses slow weapons. Frost Tanks aren't the exception to this. If it'll fuck up your DPS as a DPS, it'll definitely ruin your threat output as a Tank. The extra defensive stats aren't worth it.
After all, standard DK tanks do juuust fine with any old 2h Weapon! As long as it has plenty of Stam, STR, and maybe +Hit and +Expertise, they'll do their job. This is the whole point of Nerubian Carapace.
I don't think it's a terrible idea to go slow dps mainhand, and fast tank offhand. I could see that doing more threat than a 2h frost tank, and those still generally work fine in heroics.
Honestly, just stick to Nerubian Carapace'd DPS weapons as a Frost Tank. There's a reason why Frost DPS uses slow weapons. Frost Tanks aren't the exception to this. If it'll fuck up your DPS as a DPS, it'll definitely ruin your threat output as a Tank. The extra defensive stats aren't worth it.
After all, standard DK tanks do juuust fine with any old 2h Weapon! As long as it has plenty of Stam, STR, and maybe +Hit and +Expertise, they'll do their job. This is the whole point of Nerubian Carapace.
Ah I see.
I was the only one who rolled on the sword so at least I have a couple of bad ass looking weapons when I want to look cool.
I'm also defense capped but I don't want to tank due to really low health. I'm curious is dual wielding those two tanks swords a better idea for DPS then the De-Raged Waraxe?
I would be very hard-pressed to believe two non-ideal 232 weapons are inferior to a 175 (or whatever) two-hander in this situation.
Yes, you want slow, DPS weapons when you can get them, but I highly doubt your piece of junk welfare axe is going to be better.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
OtakuD00DCan I hit the exploding rocks?San DiegoRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
De-raged? Oh. Shit. Carry on, then! (Replace with dual Nighttimes!)
On related news, I tried to go back to Blood tanking, I really did.
But after one night trying to get more than two mobs on me when AoE tanking alongside our Paladin tank, followed by having to work three times harder than I'm used to on a Heroic Halls of Reflection for my Random Daily, I went back to Frost DW. I'll miss the self-healing, the bigger health pool, and popping Hysteria on a Feral Druid and making them hit 10k DPS on a 5-man boss fight... but that's about it.
I think the final nail in the coffin was when I was checking my TPS on single-target tanking and noticed I was almost 2k lower than what I'm used to.
Oh well, I'll just use Ramaladni's Blade of Culling for my DPS spec. The only real shame is that I don't see myself switching from my dual Heroic The Grinders until ICC's Heroic stuff becomes available.
Is breaking my T9 2 Piece bonus (-2 seconds on taunt cooldown and 5% extra damage for Heart Strike) worth the 30ish gain in stam and small gains in dodge and expertise?
Just swap out of Dual wield as soon as you get a real 2h.
There are two reasons to be DW Frost right now (Aside from gearing issues):
1. You don't have an enhancement shaman.
2. You are comfortable taking a minimum of a 1k dps hit end game to be different.
I am not certain this is true anymore, most recent accounts have been putting DW as competitive with the other DK Specs. Though personally, I have always preferred Unholy for dps.
Just swap out of Dual wield as soon as you get a real 2h.
There are two reasons to be DW Frost right now (Aside from gearing issues):
1. You don't have an enhancement shaman.
2. You are comfortable taking a minimum of a 1k dps hit end game to be different.
I am not certain this is true anymore, most recent accounts have been putting DW as competitive with the other DK Specs. Though personally, I have always preferred Unholy for dps.
And, at least for me if there are multiple mobs around and I can get my diseases spread I top the charts (for heroics) as Unholy.
Frost can be a competitive DPS if played correctly, but it is important to note that it will almost always be inferior to an Unholy build for most fights. Therefore, unless your guild needs a Frost Death Knight for the windfury buff, you are probably better off speccing into Unholy.
wowmeteronline DK dps appears to back up that statement:
Frost DW dps is competitive. I certainly wouldn't think anywhere in the ranged of 1k dps or sites like EJ or whatnot would bring that up.
It is considerably behind. Frost really hasn't been truly competitive since the death of 2H Frost back in Ulduar. There's some damn good Frost DKs out there, but the mechanics just don't allow you to keep up.
The only other spec starting to pop up as a competitor to current Unholy is Blood, which appears to be scaling better than expected. Hopefully that trend continues. Unholy without 4pcT9 (i.e. moving into T10) and after the SS nerf gets pretty 'blah' to play after a while.
Frost DW dps is competitive. I certainly wouldn't think anywhere in the ranged of 1k dps or sites like EJ or whatnot would bring that up.
Frost DPS is competitive in that you wont be laughed out of the raid for coming as Frost. However if you are trying to juice it as much as you can and pull out every last bit of DPS as you can from your class you really should be Unholy, or in rare instances Blood.
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
26 is the soft cap for expertise, the 5 expertise from talents and/or racials do show up on your character sheet.
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
26 is the soft cap for expertise, the 5 expertise from talents and/or racials do show up on your character sheet.
26 then!
Keep the expertise, drop the hit. Do your best to trade haste for arp and crit.
dougly on
0
drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
Well, it's not really bad seeing how I roll pretty hard as compared to a lot of the other Dks on my server. But I know Hit and expertise is a huge problem for me. I really want to get rid of the 2h and have been thinking about going back to using Aesir's Edge just because I don't need the 100some odd hit on the claymore. Dx
But in short what you're saying is grab a new chest or helm. Though seeing my chest is weaker then my old t9.25 helm I'll probably grab the t10 chest then juggle the 9.25helm with the triumph badge one.
However, I don't raid, outside of Ony/Vault/whatever short instances there are. So with a 2 hander from the icc 5 man content and badge gear I need to be super optimal.
Currently, on 5 man trash I get about 5-6k depending on group composition.
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
Well, it's not really bad seeing how I roll pretty hard as compared to a lot of the other Dks on my server. But I know Hit and expertise is a huge problem for me. I really want to get rid of the 2h and have been thinking about going back to using Aesir's Edge just because I don't need the 100some odd hit on the claymore. Dx
But in short what you're saying is grab a new chest or helm. Though seeing my chest is weaker then my old t9.25 helm I'll probably grab the t10 chest then juggle the 9.25helm with the triumph badge one.
Are you Unholy or Blood (sorry work filters prevent Armory links)? If Unholy then Haste tends to outshine ArP (due to BCB and Necrosis) and I think Crit does too...
If you're blood you want to stack heavy ArP on your gear but probably go STR for gems.
However, I don't raid, outside of Ony/Vault/whatever short instances there are. So with a 2 hander from the icc 5 man content and badge gear I need to be super optimal.
Currently, on 5 man trash I get about 5-6k depending on group composition.
Help be smash a better equiped paladin everyone!
[I know it can be done!]
In terms of top damage output, Unholy should be your go to, maximizing your CD usage and minimizing downtime from a steady rotation are the keys successful dps. Back when Blood was top dog, I was able to beat better geared Blood DKs and other classes because of how aggressive I was with my CD usage. Hysteria and DRW were always on CD, and I would time my AMS to get me a full RP bar (when possible) for rune black outs.
Well, you're at 399 hit... which puts you way over the 263 physical cap.
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
Well, it's not really bad seeing how I roll pretty hard as compared to a lot of the other Dks on my server. But I know Hit and expertise is a huge problem for me. I really want to get rid of the 2h and have been thinking about going back to using Aesir's Edge just because I don't need the 100some odd hit on the claymore. Dx
But in short what you're saying is grab a new chest or helm. Though seeing my chest is weaker then my old t9.25 helm I'll probably grab the t10 chest then juggle the 9.25helm with the triumph badge one.
Are you Unholy or Blood (sorry work filters prevent Armory links)? If Unholy then Haste tends to outshine ArP (due to BCB and Necrosis) and I think Crit does too...
If you're blood you want to stack heavy ArP on your gear but probably go STR for gems.
That's changed with the new Scourge Strike mechanics in 3.3. ArP is back to Godly and even scales up near strength when you get into T10.
dougly on
0
drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
edited January 2010
After juggling gear around it seems that using the 75 emblem helm and replacing the pyrite infuser with Bandit's Insignia ups my dps by about 200-300ish on a target dummy easily. Before I was struggling to hit about 4.1k to 4.2k on the dummy. Being just a target dummy I can't be for sure on if I want to roll with that set up or not until I hit up ICC or some sort of raidicuffs.
So I've made quite a bit of progress since I last posted. Its fun watching your DPS rise from 2k ish slowly up until I hit 3.5k on the dummy before I logged off today. On the night we went to do ICC I got a new axe. The one from HOL. After the ICC run I got another new axe the Tyrannical Beheader!
I'm sitting at 4piece T9 and I'm not sure if I should get the T9 helm or the Triumph badge one. Also should I remove some of my hit gems? If yes that might have to wait. Getting my bracers and chest enchanted +gems wore my gold out.
Posts
...Maybe...8-)
If he is blood, he has 10% natural.
15% arm pen as a tank? Fuck yes.
Tell the Paladin to lay off. Armor Penetration is nearly useless for them, and that huge chunk of Expertise can help a DK (Especially a Blood DK Tank.) or a Warrior way more. It's not like they have a Glyph that gives them flat 10 Expertise anyway, right? :P
I'll eventually gem and runeforge the old axe for tanking, but I'm already in the upper 30s for expertise in my tank gear, and that axe would put me at a ridiculous 50+. My tank weapon right now is that sword that drops off Marrowgar 10 and has like 100 hit rating. Considering I'm at like 4.5% hit without that sword, I'm going to have to wait for some good +hit tank items before I even consider switching.
I bought the Sigil today well because the other one was useless since I'm currently Unholy. I'm hoping to go DW frost because I've always liked to dual wield but if I get a keeper 2 hander I'll stick with this build.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Forgotten+Coast&n=Smashandbash
And yes my DK does have a stupid name. I'm sorry I never expected him to get to 80.
Barring that, it depends on how many emblems you have. However, I'll just make a wild guess that you have a safe bet in buying your first two pieces of Tier 9 to get the set bonus.
Woah woah woah.
T9 are Triumph???
Well that solves a lot of problems.
This.
Also. Boo to my guild wanting me to put CoI on the blood beasts when we have 2 arcane mages who can easily put the 1 point into slow and the enhancement shammy who can totem dance.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
I'm also defense capped but I don't want to tank due to really low health. I'm curious is dual wielding those two tanks swords a better idea for DPS then the De-Raged Waraxe?
I mean work with what you're given and all that.
Check your skills, they are all based on weapon damage, and even if you are hitting fast, your strikes (blood/heart/scourge/oblit etc) are still hitting for less, as the top end damage is less.
Really, speed is immaterial compared to top end damage.
After all, standard DK tanks do juuust fine with any old 2h Weapon! As long as it has plenty of Stam, STR, and maybe +Hit and +Expertise, they'll do their job. This is the whole point of Nerubian Carapace.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Spinebreaker&cn=Demonllama
DK DW tank.
I don't think it's a terrible idea to go slow dps mainhand, and fast tank offhand. I could see that doing more threat than a 2h frost tank, and those still generally work fine in heroics.
Ah I see.
I was the only one who rolled on the sword so at least I have a couple of bad ass looking weapons when I want to look cool.
I would be very hard-pressed to believe two non-ideal 232 weapons are inferior to a 175 (or whatever) two-hander in this situation.
Yes, you want slow, DPS weapons when you can get them, but I highly doubt your piece of junk welfare axe is going to be better.
There are two reasons to be DW Frost right now (Aside from gearing issues):
1. You don't have an enhancement shaman.
2. You are comfortable taking a minimum of a 1k dps hit end game to be different.
But after one night trying to get more than two mobs on me when AoE tanking alongside our Paladin tank, followed by having to work three times harder than I'm used to on a Heroic Halls of Reflection for my Random Daily, I went back to Frost DW. I'll miss the self-healing, the bigger health pool, and popping Hysteria on a Feral Druid and making them hit 10k DPS on a 5-man boss fight... but that's about it.
I think the final nail in the coffin was when I was checking my TPS on single-target tanking and noticed I was almost 2k lower than what I'm used to.
Oh well, I'll just use Ramaladni's Blade of Culling for my DPS spec. The only real shame is that I don't see myself switching from my dual Heroic The Grinders until ICC's Heroic stuff becomes available.
Is breaking my T9 2 Piece bonus (-2 seconds on taunt cooldown and 5% extra damage for Heart Strike) worth the 30ish gain in stam and small gains in dodge and expertise?
I am not certain this is true anymore, most recent accounts have been putting DW as competitive with the other DK Specs. Though personally, I have always preferred Unholy for dps.
And, at least for me if there are multiple mobs around and I can get my diseases spread I top the charts (for heroics) as Unholy.
wowmeteronline DK dps appears to back up that statement:
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/clazz/dps/dkt/9/0/3/0
It is considerably behind. Frost really hasn't been truly competitive since the death of 2H Frost back in Ulduar. There's some damn good Frost DKs out there, but the mechanics just don't allow you to keep up.
The only other spec starting to pop up as a competitor to current Unholy is Blood, which appears to be scaling better than expected. Hopefully that trend continues. Unholy without 4pcT9 (i.e. moving into T10) and after the SS nerf gets pretty 'blah' to play after a while.
Frost DPS is competitive in that you wont be laughed out of the raid for coming as Frost. However if you are trying to juice it as much as you can and pull out every last bit of DPS as you can from your class you really should be Unholy, or in rare instances Blood.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Eitrigg&cn=Discodan
Suggestions?
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
Your expertise is also at 28 when you really only need 21.
So basically, try to find a piece that drops those values down, preferably in favor of armor penetration. That is, unless you're going to replace the hit trinket anytime soon. That thing is really really bad for you right now since the static stats give you basically nothing.
26 is the soft cap for expertise, the 5 expertise from talents and/or racials do show up on your character sheet.
26 then!
Keep the expertise, drop the hit. Do your best to trade haste for arp and crit.
Well, it's not really bad seeing how I roll pretty hard as compared to a lot of the other Dks on my server. But I know Hit and expertise is a huge problem for me. I really want to get rid of the 2h and have been thinking about going back to using Aesir's Edge just because I don't need the 100some odd hit on the claymore. Dx
But in short what you're saying is grab a new chest or helm. Though seeing my chest is weaker then my old t9.25 helm I'll probably grab the t10 chest then juggle the 9.25helm with the triumph badge one.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
This is me:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kilrogg&cn=Sinaur
I want to outdamage everyone in my guild, even if they have 10/25 man raiding gear.
This is the guy I want to outdamage:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Kilrogg&cn=Spo
(It's a personal battle)
However, I don't raid, outside of Ony/Vault/whatever short instances there are. So with a 2 hander from the icc 5 man content and badge gear I need to be super optimal.
Currently, on 5 man trash I get about 5-6k depending on group composition.
Help be smash a better equiped paladin everyone!
[I know it can be done!]
Are you Unholy or Blood (sorry work filters prevent Armory links)? If Unholy then Haste tends to outshine ArP (due to BCB and Necrosis) and I think Crit does too...
If you're blood you want to stack heavy ArP on your gear but probably go STR for gems.
In terms of top damage output, Unholy should be your go to, maximizing your CD usage and minimizing downtime from a steady rotation are the keys successful dps. Back when Blood was top dog, I was able to beat better geared Blood DKs and other classes because of how aggressive I was with my CD usage. Hysteria and DRW were always on CD, and I would time my AMS to get me a full RP bar (when possible) for rune black outs.
That's changed with the new Scourge Strike mechanics in 3.3. ArP is back to Godly and even scales up near strength when you get into T10.
Gross.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
I'm sitting at 4piece T9 and I'm not sure if I should get the T9 helm or the Triumph badge one. Also should I remove some of my hit gems? If yes that might have to wait. Getting my bracers and chest enchanted +gems wore my gold out.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Forgotten+Coast&cn=Smashandbash