i pretty much don't have solutions to some of the inherent design problems with ChO that don't basically require it to be a different game and have a completely different approach to powers and shit
Because of the open power system there is no possible way for them to make it so you can't build a gimpy ass hero who will be 20 times weaker than Killdozer.
And yes, I run into people on a daily basis who have managed to thoughtlessly (or unknowingly) build awful characters.
I should not be nerfed so they feel better.
That's exactly what made the official forums unreadable. People would pick the dumbest powers and then make a 5 paragraph essay about how broken and hard the game is. There's test dummies for a reason, and although it wasn't perfect it gave you a good idea what you'd expect when you took that power onto the field. You had to spend a good amount of time testing the powers because more often than not the description for the power didn't convey how shitty or broken it was. The logical step isn't to nerf the good powers (unless it was something like the old gigabolt that would kill everything in a 1000 foot radius), but to make the useless powers worth a damn. They didn't do that though, and we ended up shitty powers becoming worthless, good powers becoming shitty, and a few incredible powers that turned everything else into "Why would I ever want anything else?". PvP didn't cause shitty powers. Poor tweaking from the developers did.
In PvP I was 100 wins and 0 loses on one of my characters (the one I got to level 40), and 50+ wins with a few loses on my next 5 (these I only got to level 20 because of how broken T3 combat was with mindful reinforcement). I knew exactly what powers were OP (relatively few, despite what the CO forums might say), which ones were worthless, and which ones only needed minor tweaks (which was most of the powers). I can 100% guarantee you that most of the changes to the powers were not to the benefit of PvP. Most of the decent (and very balanced) powers were nerfed into uselessness, and the stupidly overpowered abilities were either unchanged or tweaked for the worse. The already useless abilities were left untouched. There was very rarely a patch where I said "This makes sense!".
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
One of these days one of these game companies is going to hire me and put me into a position like GC has. And that day is going to be awesome for everyone. I already got the forum persona down, so I'm pretty much good to go.
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I agree, there needs to be more kockarounds in this game. That's probably why might is just so awesome.
Imagine my disappointed after resubbing and making a super strength character just to find out they took out ragdoll physics!
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
And then they decide what we really need is a patch all about energy building mechanics and blocking and the "HEY LETS ACTUALLY LOOK AT THE 20-30 POWERS THAT NO ONE EVER TAKES BECAUSE THEY ARE AWFUL" patch is not considered important.
but for christ's sake, find a passive in another power set and take it
not having a passive of some kind seriously hurts your character
munitions remains a great set to pick powers from, but a poor set to play "straight" because it lacks a passive and has basically nothing but single target and AoE damage powers
which, by the way, are redundant as hell
nobody needs submachine gun, shotgun, and gatling gun
those powers do fundamentally the exact same thing (cone damage) but with slight variations that appeal to some people and not others
pick the one that you prefer, that suits your play style, but for the love of god don't pick more than one
but for christ's sake, find a passive in another power set and take it
not having a passive of some kind seriously hurts your character
munitions remains a great set to pick powers from, but a poor set to play "straight" because it lacks a passive and has basically nothing but single target and AoE damage powers
which, by the way, are redundant as hell
nobody needs submachine gun, shotgun, and gatling gun
those powers do fundamentally the exact same thing (cone damage) but with slight variations that appeal to some people and not others
pick the one that you prefer, that suits your play style, but for the love of god don't pick more than one
I'm only 11, the powers I've picked so far have been, grenade, and jump back shot and killer instinct. Was thinking of picking Single blade for just the look, would that mix well?
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Grabbing both shotguns and gatling isn't that bad of an idea. Shotgun is good for the knockback or finishing off groups that are slightly more spread out, and gatling is amazing for when everything is lined up nicely. If you want to throw in a singleblade attack, then I'd go for the one with the shallow cut advantage (a bleed that does a % of hp damage) because I think that's really the only one that would be useful without other MA powers and doesn't really overstep your other abilities. Unless they changed all of that.
But definitely pick up at least shotgun or gatling if doesn't go against your characters RP or something. They are the more useful powers in the set.
Neva on
SC2 Beta: Neva.ling
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
Well its kinda the costume. Going for like a male Ruby from wet, and while she used shotties, I like the idea of two hand guns and a katana. Thanks for the tips though very helpful!
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
but for christ's sake, find a passive in another power set and take it
not having a passive of some kind seriously hurts your character
munitions remains a great set to pick powers from, but a poor set to play "straight" because it lacks a passive and has basically nothing but single target and AoE damage powers
which, by the way, are redundant as hell
nobody needs submachine gun, shotgun, and gatling gun
those powers do fundamentally the exact same thing (cone damage) but with slight variations that appeal to some people and not others
pick the one that you prefer, that suits your play style, but for the love of god don't pick more than one
I'm only 11, the powers I've picked so far have been, grenade, and jump back shot and killer instinct. Was thinking of picking Single blade for just the look, would that mix well?
Single Blade doesn't work with Killer Instinct (only Munitions attacks work with Killer Instinct) and it is largely composed around single-target damage with stacking Bleed DoTs.
if you already have a single target damage attack (like Two-Gun Mojo or Assault Rifle) then you really don't need more single target damage attacks.
you can take them, if you want, but they're redundant and unless you feel like changing up your attacks for the hell of it, there's no advantage to using more than one kind of single-target damage attack in most situations.
basically, if you want a "balanced" Champion, here is what you need:
An energy builder
A single target damage attack that you can use at all times
A passive: either defensive, offensive, or support.
A role to use. Choose Protector, Sentinel, Avenger, or Brawler. Guardian is pretty poopy. Choose your Role based on what kind of Passive you choose.
An AoE or Cone attack of some kind. You need a way to dispatch multiple minions quickly.
and the following are handy:
A toggle that improves your damage or effectiveness. Aggressor, Form of (whatever), Aspect of the (whatever).
An Active Defense (Resurgence, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable)
An "active offense" click power (Immolation, Shadow Shroud, Ascension)
A self-heal, either a HoT (Bountiful Chi Resurgence) a Maintain (Arcane Vitality) or a charge-up (Psionic Healing). Keep in mind that any heal you can use on other people, you can use on yourself.
Holds, both a single target (which tend to be higher magnitude) or an AoE (which are good for minions) are good to have. Take one of each, if you can.
You don't need to have any of these things, but if you don't want to risk making a gimpy character it's a good guideline to stick by.
It's also worth noting that when it comes to attacks, don't take more than one attack that does the exact same thing unless it provides some kind of benefit used in conjunction with other attacks. Taking Shotgun, Fire Breath, and Torrent of Arrows is silly. You are not going to use more than one against a group of enemies.
alright this post strays into "pony's bitching about what the game should've been" but
what they should've done is, instead of doing all this bullshit with frameworks, they just categorized the powers and you chose from each category that suited your fancy.
would've made the game a lot easier to balance, would've allowed people to be more creative without being gimped, and it would've made it a lot easier for new people to understand what the fuck is going on
Pony is spot on. His advice is why I skipped Uppercut even though it is worthwhile, I just wouldn't use it much because I have Haymaker.
But I took Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp because I correctly predicted that I would get good use out of both, however just one or the other would have been just fine. They do similar damage, will affect a similar number of targets, and generally are comparable powers.
I'm still hoping to squeeze Chest Beam into Killdozer's build for thematic reasons, even though ranged attacks are sub par in Brawler stance but I am fleshing out his support powers first.
I've actually been working on a guide since the melee review that categorizes all the powers by what they do and gives a guideline on how to pick powers, what is essential, what is handy, and what kind of choices are gimpy or redundant.
I figure, it'll be really helpful to people who want to say, mix sets, or design around a concept, or want to make sure their character is balanced and versatile.
On the subject of Muni and good/bad powers...I'd just like to say that SMG is genuinely not a terrible ability. With Aggression and Rank 2, the thing fucking mows down Henchmen. (truthfully I took it mostly out of concept because i couldn't see that character lugging around a minigun everywhere)
On the subject of Muni and good/bad powers...I'd just like to say that SMG is genuinely not a terrible ability. With Aggression and Rank 2, the thing fucking mows down Henchmen. (truthfully I took it mostly out of concept because i couldn't see that character lugging around a minigun everywhere)
It's not that it's bad, it's just much less popular than shotty.
the reason i asked is because i took demolish as well as haymaker... is that bad? i've had great success with demolish generally one-shotting pretty much everything single-target wise, and master villains usually take two or three
On the subject of Muni and good/bad powers...I'd just like to say that SMG is genuinely not a terrible ability. With Aggression and Rank 2, the thing fucking mows down Henchmen. (truthfully I took it mostly out of concept because i couldn't see that character lugging around a minigun everywhere)
It's not that it's bad, it's just much less popular than shotty.
Yeah, I know. Shotgun's awesome and I'll probably pick it up when I respec.
the reason i asked is because i took demolish as well as haymaker... is that bad? i've had great success with demolish generally one-shotting pretty much everything single-target wise, and master villains usually take two or three
Demolish and Haymaker both is rather redundant, yeah. It's hardly going to gimp you though. Just respec out of one of them during the next free respec or when you hit 40.
that's what i figured, i mostly just asked because everyone's gushing about haymaker so i picked it up when i hit 14
the game is pretty intuitive though. i've actually been doing what everyone recommends just based on what looks effective (it helps that might is ridiculously good)
like the first thing i noticed: endurance and recovery are both awesome stats. i've pretty much just been plowing points into str, con, end and recovery
EDIT: also i hoped you were going to put killdozer porn in that spoiler
Oh man speaking of free porn if you GIS "rugby stud" you get this incredible mix of shirtless hunks and little metal cleat thingies. It's almost a 50/50 split.
Eh, so what do you do when the little cryptic launcher window just kind of hangs up saying "please be patient trying to update the launcher" and the number of attempts just keeps getting higher.
Eh, so what do you do when the little cryptic launcher window just kind of hangs up saying "please be patient trying to update the launcher" and the number of attempts just keeps getting higher.
Close it and try again?
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Posts
That's exactly what made the official forums unreadable. People would pick the dumbest powers and then make a 5 paragraph essay about how broken and hard the game is. There's test dummies for a reason, and although it wasn't perfect it gave you a good idea what you'd expect when you took that power onto the field. You had to spend a good amount of time testing the powers because more often than not the description for the power didn't convey how shitty or broken it was. The logical step isn't to nerf the good powers (unless it was something like the old gigabolt that would kill everything in a 1000 foot radius), but to make the useless powers worth a damn. They didn't do that though, and we ended up shitty powers becoming worthless, good powers becoming shitty, and a few incredible powers that turned everything else into "Why would I ever want anything else?". PvP didn't cause shitty powers. Poor tweaking from the developers did.
In PvP I was 100 wins and 0 loses on one of my characters (the one I got to level 40), and 50+ wins with a few loses on my next 5 (these I only got to level 20 because of how broken T3 combat was with mindful reinforcement). I knew exactly what powers were OP (relatively few, despite what the CO forums might say), which ones were worthless, and which ones only needed minor tweaks (which was most of the powers). I can 100% guarantee you that most of the changes to the powers were not to the benefit of PvP. Most of the decent (and very balanced) powers were nerfed into uselessness, and the stupidly overpowered abilities were either unchanged or tweaked for the worse. The already useless abilities were left untouched. There was very rarely a patch where I said "This makes sense!".
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
pleasepaypreacher.net
Imagine my disappointed after resubbing and making a super strength character just to find out they took out ragdoll physics!
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
(sorry for caps)
it is good, but you can't just stick in the tree
you need to get some defensive passives from other sets to fill it out
personally I do it the other way, I use sorcery and dip into munitions for fun things
like the shotgun
BLAM BLAM BLAM
also i love knockback more than anything else ever
or maybe Lynx Man because pounce is fun as hell
and that's totally okay, Preacher
but for christ's sake, find a passive in another power set and take it
not having a passive of some kind seriously hurts your character
munitions remains a great set to pick powers from, but a poor set to play "straight" because it lacks a passive and has basically nothing but single target and AoE damage powers
which, by the way, are redundant as hell
nobody needs submachine gun, shotgun, and gatling gun
those powers do fundamentally the exact same thing (cone damage) but with slight variations that appeal to some people and not others
pick the one that you prefer, that suits your play style, but for the love of god don't pick more than one
I'm only 11, the powers I've picked so far have been, grenade, and jump back shot and killer instinct. Was thinking of picking Single blade for just the look, would that mix well?
pleasepaypreacher.net
Single Target Damage: Two-Gun Mojo, Assault Rifle, Bullet Ballet
Cone Damage: Submachine Gun, Shotgun, Gatling Gun, Breakaway Shot
Targeted AoE Damage: Frag Grenade, Rocket Launcher
Point-Blank AoE Damage: Lead Tempest, Mini-Mines
Pick one from each category, if you'd like, but don't bother picking more than one from each type. It's a waste of time and a power slot.
Munitions is by far the power-set with the least utility and the most redundancy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
because i think i fucked up and got two single target damage powers.
If you have roomsweeper, you are still Golden Pony Boy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
But definitely pick up at least shotgun or gatling if doesn't go against your characters RP or something. They are the more useful powers in the set.
"Everyone who is capable of logical thought should be able to see why you shouldn't sell lifetime subscriptions to an MMO. Cell phone companies and drug dealers don't offer lifetime subscriptions either, guess why?" - Mugaaz
pleasepaypreacher.net
Might is not like Munitions.
If you took Uppercut and Haymaker you're fine. Don't worry about it, you might want to ditch one at 40 but it's not a big deal.
Single Blade doesn't work with Killer Instinct (only Munitions attacks work with Killer Instinct) and it is largely composed around single-target damage with stacking Bleed DoTs.
if you already have a single target damage attack (like Two-Gun Mojo or Assault Rifle) then you really don't need more single target damage attacks.
you can take them, if you want, but they're redundant and unless you feel like changing up your attacks for the hell of it, there's no advantage to using more than one kind of single-target damage attack in most situations.
basically, if you want a "balanced" Champion, here is what you need:
An energy builder
A single target damage attack that you can use at all times
A passive: either defensive, offensive, or support.
A role to use. Choose Protector, Sentinel, Avenger, or Brawler. Guardian is pretty poopy. Choose your Role based on what kind of Passive you choose.
An AoE or Cone attack of some kind. You need a way to dispatch multiple minions quickly.
and the following are handy:
A toggle that improves your damage or effectiveness. Aggressor, Form of (whatever), Aspect of the (whatever).
An Active Defense (Resurgence, Masterful Dodge, Unbreakable)
An "active offense" click power (Immolation, Shadow Shroud, Ascension)
A self-heal, either a HoT (Bountiful Chi Resurgence) a Maintain (Arcane Vitality) or a charge-up (Psionic Healing). Keep in mind that any heal you can use on other people, you can use on yourself.
Holds, both a single target (which tend to be higher magnitude) or an AoE (which are good for minions) are good to have. Take one of each, if you can.
You don't need to have any of these things, but if you don't want to risk making a gimpy character it's a good guideline to stick by.
It's also worth noting that when it comes to attacks, don't take more than one attack that does the exact same thing unless it provides some kind of benefit used in conjunction with other attacks. Taking Shotgun, Fire Breath, and Torrent of Arrows is silly. You are not going to use more than one against a group of enemies.
pleasepaypreacher.net
what they should've done is, instead of doing all this bullshit with frameworks, they just categorized the powers and you chose from each category that suited your fancy.
would've made the game a lot easier to balance, would've allowed people to be more creative without being gimped, and it would've made it a lot easier for new people to understand what the fuck is going on
But I took Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp because I correctly predicted that I would get good use out of both, however just one or the other would have been just fine. They do similar damage, will affect a similar number of targets, and generally are comparable powers.
I'm still hoping to squeeze Chest Beam into Killdozer's build for thematic reasons, even though ranged attacks are sub par in Brawler stance but I am fleshing out his support powers first.
I figure, it'll be really helpful to people who want to say, mix sets, or design around a concept, or want to make sure their character is balanced and versatile.
Oh please you'd spend it all on porn and warhammer figurines and release a game that makes annarchy online look like a playable version.
pleasepaypreacher.net
pffft
i wouldn't pay for porn
It's not that it's bad, it's just much less popular than shotty.
Yeah, I know. Shotgun's awesome and I'll probably pick it up when I respec.
Demolish and Haymaker both is rather redundant, yeah. It's hardly going to gimp you though. Just respec out of one of them during the next free respec or when you hit 40.
The most awesome porn is not free though.
the game is pretty intuitive though. i've actually been doing what everyone recommends just based on what looks effective (it helps that might is ridiculously good)
like the first thing i noticed: endurance and recovery are both awesome stats. i've pretty much just been plowing points into str, con, end and recovery
EDIT: also i hoped you were going to put killdozer porn in that spoiler
Sent.
Yes, under chat management there is a tab for channels, you want to join the Penny Arcade channel.
Close it and try again?
pleasepaypreacher.net