This is a minor gripe of an overall good issue, but in FF #574:
Val calls Franklin a retard, and even being his little sister, that's just not funny or cute or anything. Bad Reed and Sue, you raised a Hate-Monger
Uh, no. The word "retard" isn't hate speech just because people catch on that it's used as an insult now. Literally every term attached to the "intellectually disabled" (as PC people put it now) has become an insult synonymous with stupidity eventually. This is literally where we get the words "moron", "imbecile", "idiot", "dimwit" and more. The problem is that the medical condition being discussed - having an IQ below a certain threshold of normalcy - is precisely what the person making an insult is trying to express.
This isn't like using "gay" to mean "lame", because there's nothing intrinsically "lame" about gayness, whereas in fact the very definition of being stupid is to be mentally retarded compared to normalcy.
Yeah, but even if it's intended to be endearment it doesn't read like that, it seems pretty unpleasant. I hate Valeria already for being a know-it-all, calling her brother a retard on his brirthday just makes her seem like a precious bitch to me.
You kind of took what I wrote a bit beyond what I was getting at, especially the hate-monger joke.
And Val has never had that attitude of being smarter than everyone so she'll make fun of them. Plus, Franklin isn't stupid, he's just a normal kid.
Okay, if you weren't making a big point of it, then I def. don't want to make it a big argument. However, I don't think it's out of her character to toss of an insult like that, any more than it's out of character for virtually any child (special powers or not).
Moreover, the fact that Franklin isn't stupid is a relative thing: he is stupid compared to Val, isn't he? whatever IQ he's got, it's a good deal less than hers is, right?
In a world filled with as many geniuses and supergeniuses as Marvel's, the bar is set a good deal higher, I'd think.
(of course, given the stupidity of a populace that would accept Osborne in a position of power, maybe it averages out a great deal lower?)
Yeah, but even if it's intended to be endearment it doesn't read like that, it seems pretty unpleasant. I hate Valeria already for being a know-it-all, calling her brother a retard on his brirthday just makes her seem like a precious bitch to me.
How did it not read like that? She called him that and he reacted positively. It's literally the only way to read it.
Also, what are Franklin's powers, exactly? Couldn't he use them to make himself smarter?
Franklin is not stupid in the slightest, he isn't a super genius but he's never been to be shown as anything other than a moderately bright and likeable kid. He also is insanely powerful (so up yours Val, he may be a retard but he can delete you from existence).
Franklin is not stupid in the slightest, he isn't a super genius but he's never been to be shown as anything other than a moderately bright and likeable kid. He also is insanely powerful (so up yours Val, he may be a retard but he can delete you from existence).
Wouldn't that make it just an ironic nickname, then, like calling a fat guy "Tiny"?
The way it was even told was just awful and so open to retcon it's not even funny. So much so that it was Brubaker's argument #1 for bringing him back. (Seriously. Off-panel in a flashback? Please.)
Anyway, I was re-reading Avengers Disassembled last night on a whim. I cannot believe that the same person who wrote Avengers #500 as action-packed as it was is the same person who has since written three Avengers books that move slower than glaciers. And not the "climate change made them fall into the ocean" glaciers, but the ones that still move in feet per year.
I've liked the majority of the Bendis Avengers titles but I do agree most of them moved at a slow pace. Hopefully Bendis can channel the Disassembled pace for Siege, at least he better since it's only 4 issues.
Disassembled was a piece of jumbled hippopotamus shit with elephant jizz mixed in. It made no sense and made every character look like a dumb ass.
...
What?
Anyway, I've made this point umpteen times before in this and the last bitching thread. One of the reasons I've come to love Morrison is that he throws the kitchen sink at you and if it hits you in the face instead of you catching it, then oh well. That Batman & Robin interview he did has a great point:
All those huge, multi-part, slow moving stories were very popular in the last decade but the impression you get from readers now is that they want a bit more for their money – more story, more ideas, more new characters, more re-read potential per issue, and I‘m up for that. Comics are quite expensive compared to other entertainment media and we should keep that in mind. I've always favored the "super-compression" approach, so I feel more in tune with the demands of the audience these days.
I'm one of those readers. I'm sick to effing death of going through my pulls and not having anything to really say about most of them. This month isn't even over and I've bought dozens of new books, and of those maybe ten were worth re-reading. It's probably not much of a surprise that four of them were by the same author, two were part of the comic adaptation of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and one was the immensely amazing Jonah Hex #50. Not one of those is from Bendis or his sidekick Reed (who I recently realized was the second-most prolific writer during Secret Invasion) or even Brubaker who I used to gush over like a schoolgirl.
I loved Final Crisis. I've read it about a dozen times, either straight through or in Morrison's "canon" reading order with Superman Beyond in the middle. It's amazing. And then on a whim I re-read Disassembled, and I was actually impressed because it moved along. It was a mess. Yeah. But the funny thing is that there's no time limit or read count limit on comics. I went through it three times looking for the Skrull during the Kree attack because of something I remembered reading two years ago during the lead up to SI (It didn't help that the problem seemed to be that the Skrull was being hidden at the edge of the page almost in the trade's binding). But reading through most Marvel arcs now is like taking a long hike and finding a sign at the end that says "Fuck You" because nothing gets resolved in collections that are put together for g-d trades. I can't wait for the New Avengers Dark Reign trade. The back cover can say "Earth's Mightiest Heroes sit around and talk, but don't actually say anything of value or face the conflicts that the whole banner concept was supposed to be about. All yours for $14.99, sucker."
Anyway, I've made this point umpteen times before in this and the last bitching thread. One of the reasons I've come to love Morrison is that he throws the kitchen sink at you and if it hits you in the face instead of you catching it, then oh well. That Batman & Robin interview he did has a great point:
All those huge, multi-part, slow moving stories were very popular in the last decade but the impression you get from readers now is that they want a bit more for their money – more story, more ideas, more new characters, more re-read potential per issue, and I‘m up for that. Comics are quite expensive compared to other entertainment media and we should keep that in mind. I've always favored the "super-compression" approach, so I feel more in tune with the demands of the audience these days.
I'm one of those readers. I'm sick to effing death of going through my pulls and not having anything to really say about most of them. This month isn't even over and I've bought dozens of new books, and of those maybe ten were worth re-reading. It's probably not much of a surprise that four of them were by the same author, two were part of the comic adaptation of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and one was the immensely amazing Jonah Hex #50. Not one of those is from Bendis or his sidekick Reed (who I recently realized was the second-most prolific writer during Secret Invasion) or even Brubaker who I used to gush over like a schoolgirl.
I loved Final Crisis. I've read it about a dozen times, either straight through or in Morrison's "canon" reading order with Superman Beyond in the middle. It's amazing. And then on a whim I re-read Disassembled, and I was actually impressed because it moved along. It was a mess. Yeah. But the funny thing is that there's no time limit or read count limit on comics. I went through it three times looking for the Skrull during the Kree attack because of something I remembered reading two years ago during the lead up to SI (It didn't help that the problem seemed to be that the Skrull was being hidden at the edge of the page almost in the trade's binding). But reading through most Marvel arcs now is like taking a long hike and finding a sign at the end that says "Fuck You" because nothing gets resolved in collections that are put together for g-d trades. I can't wait for the New Avengers Dark Reign trade. The back cover can say "Earth's Mightiest Heroes sit around and talk, but don't actually say anything of value or face the conflicts that the whole banner concept was supposed to be about. All yours for $14.99, sucker."
The decompressed for the trade aspect of many stories is one reason I think I've been digging a lot of the recent 3-issue miniseries. Titles like Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter, DA: Ares, some of the Blackest Night miniseries, etc. You could easily see how each could be stretched for a 6-issue miniseries that is mroe trade friendly, but they set them at 3 and they feel a lot meatier than many monthlies and the stories are more focused and rarely waste pages.
Regarding the 3 issue Ares miniseries, I was wondering how Marvel would collect that and then I read that the Michael Avon Oeming Ares miniseries is included. That's a pretty damn good deal.
Also, I know this is old and I have to admit that I'm not a huge comic book reader, mostly picking up my superhero knowledge through other media, general wiki/tvtropes browsing, and standard geek osmosis. Nonetheless, after reading a bit about it and looking back on it again, I confess to still really hating the entire Civil War story, notably which "side" that Marvel ended up calling the good one.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Logically, it is the right side
However, I do agree that Civil War was not the best idea, and the end was not exactly satisfying.
The right side was the wrong side (both in Millar's view and as subsequent events have shown), and the wrong side is sort of the right side, though it goes without saying that the right side could have found a better way to further its defends its viewpoints than treason.
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
The last time I read through, I still found myself wishing that (should I spoil this? I don't know)
Cap's side could have won. I mean, he rode on a fucking fighter jet in issue one.
Meanwhile, the Pro-Reg guys cloned Thor, made him a cyborg, and used him to fight Anti-Reg, resulting in the death of Goliath.
Civil War and its aftermath could have been handled better, but whatever.
Antimatter on
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
Cap was shown to have little to no compromises in his morals compared to Tony, as the biggest one was
letting Punisher be on the team, but he beats the shit out of him for killing those c-list villains so he still gets to show he's a bad ass
That's what kind of ruined it. Cap is more of a dick in MUA2
TexiKen on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Can we just agree that Millar doesn't really do nuance?
I just can't get past this part of the Civil War plot, "The X-Men are neutral."
The...hell? No, the X-Men aren't fucking neutral. The X-Men have been against this exact plot from day one. The X-Men are teaming up with Magneto and everyone this side of Apocalypse to blow this thing up. It's like everyone responsible for this plan never even read their #1 selling comic book or watched any of the expanded media about it.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
the x-men were in an unusual position, though. while they maintained neutrality, it was really because they had their own more pressing matters to attend to, what with the mutant population dropping to functionally 0. they couldn't, as a species, afford to get drawn into a conflict like that. i mean, they sent wolverine. what more do you want?
Also, they were already de facto registered, so they didn't have much of a personal stake in matters.
I liked the bit about the X-Men resenting the heroes for not taking a stand against mutant registration too, though it's hard to take that as a legitimate judgment against non-mutant heroes when us readers realize that the reason Spider-Man never fought mutant registration is because all that business took place outside of his book. We can fill in the blanks, as the writer did, and assume indifference or self-absorption on the part of non-mutants, but it's not the same as actually seeing proof in the internal monologues of those characters.
Also, they were already de facto registered, so they didn't have much of a personal stake in matters.
I liked the bit about the X-Men resenting the heroes for not taking a stand against mutant registration too, though it's hard to take that as a legitimate judgment against non-mutant heroes when us readers realize that the reason Spider-Man never fought mutant registration is because all that business took place outside of his book. We can fill in the blanks, as the writer did, and assume indifference or self-absorption on the part of non-mutants, but it's not the same as actually seeing proof in the internal monologues of those characters.
Yeah, that's just a general issue with comic book "universes" overall. The X-Men are one thing, because of their theme of using mutants as each generation's persecuted minorities, but in general superheroes don't work as a concept if they're in number large enough to demand stuff like a Registration Act. We have to ask uncomfortable questions like this. But I have to admit I don't know all the details about the X-Men's ongoing story at that point. This was right after that Scarlet Witch's latest weird plot, right? Help me out here: what exactly are the mutant populations pre and post-this thing? And how exactly were they de facto registered? If anything, having numbers this low would make them more likely to go as anti-reg as humanly possible. Now it's not about protecting the poor oppressed mutants. It's purely about desperate survival by people who know EXACTLY what that means.
This brings me to the general problems with all these registration acts and civil wars and whatnot, namely that it seems like it would be a field day for the supervillains. Not just the ones who get to take free shots and the now pariahed superheroes, but the ones who tend to have real, big, take over the world schemes. Either they'll have a field day as their greatest enemies destroy each other, or when the government suddenly turns competent regarding super-villainous punishment they would go crazy on the registration powers and the anti-regs wouldn't have to do anything; they just had to get out of the way. Okay, I assume Magneto was out because of the Scarlet Witch thing and the Skrulls apparently did exactly what I just said in the next story arc, but in the interim there's no reason that Doctor Doom wasn't making the entirety of Europe his bitch. And really that's the big problem with Civil War and whatnot. If we assume that there is a balance between good and evil in a comic book universe, then when the heroes fight each other, the anti-reg team doesn't have to do anything but go into hiding because the pro-reg heroes should be keeping busy as the go up against twice the normal level of crooks, maniacs, and invading monstrosities. And Thor help them if someone like Apocalypse or Galactus pops by for a visit. Good luck with that Stark!
...No, wait, that's perfect. I normally support Joss Whedon's decisions, but THAT's how Civil War should have ended. Captain America's there, punching the shit out of Iron Man as usual, and he's stopped when he sees a crime. Not a big crime, not a world-ending thing, nothing that force the two opposing sides to work together without resolving anything, just something simple. A mugging; that's usually the default crime in these things. And Captain America abandons his big violent victory and he stops the mugging. He helps an innocent young couple who likely hate him at this point and send the thugs running. Because that's what he does. That's what a superhero IS. And that's what the rest of the heroes do. The pro-regs can play big scary government agents all they want, and maybe when it comes to the Hulk or superheroes that actually EXPLODE that's what they should do, but otherwise they should stay the hell out of the way of real heroes. Heroes who won't support their little piece of fascism, but who will neither waste their time fighting this escalating war nor can they do nothing when they see crime, real crime being committed. So what if 90% of the country hates them? How often has that happened to Spiderman? When HASN'T that happened to the X-Men? You do it because you're a hero and somebody has to, not because you're trying to make friends. Maybe Captain America hasn't been that kind of hero before, hasn't had to. But if that's what being a hero means right now, that's what he'll do.
And Tony Stark, former arms dealer desperately trying to make up for the sins of the past, slowly realizes he became all he tried to escape from and worse. And he doesn't need Spiderman villain to prove what we already knew was true. He has the registration erased and resigns from his position. And he puts on a spare suit and fights himself some bad guys.
EmperorSeth on
You know what? Nanowrimo's cancelled on account of the world is stupid.
It was said in one of the books that nobody was bothering to ask the mutants to register because most of them were at Xavier's and the government already had info on their abilities and true identities. They'd have to train to be heroes, I think, but none of them actually saw themselves as superheroes.
Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.
Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.
were the hulk babies later repurposed into the hulk gang from old man logan?
Also, they were already de facto registered, so they didn't have much of a personal stake in matters.
I liked the bit about the X-Men resenting the heroes for not taking a stand against mutant registration too, though it's hard to take that as a legitimate judgment against non-mutant heroes when us readers realize that the reason Spider-Man never fought mutant registration is because all that business took place outside of his book. We can fill in the blanks, as the writer did, and assume indifference or self-absorption on the part of non-mutants, but it's not the same as actually seeing proof in the internal monologues of those characters.
Yeah, that's just a general issue with comic book "universes" overall. The X-Men are one thing, because of their theme of using mutants as each generation's persecuted minorities, but in general superheroes don't work as a concept if they're in number large enough to demand stuff like a Registration Act.
This right here is the crux of the issue with Civil War. It's logical to assume that if there were large quantities of super power humans, they are either A) Going to gain dominion and rulership over normal humans or Be heavily heavily regulated by society.
But we suspend our disbelief because hey, it's a comic book. Civil War suddenly asks us to stop suspending our disbelief on this matter and in so doing makes a lot of stuff retroactively non-sensical.
Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.
were the hulk babies later repurposed into the hulk gang from old man logan?
I don't think Millar has officially stated that's the case but more than likely it is.
So I got some bitching to do about Fall of the hulks Gamma.
What a god damm clusterfuck. Having pretty much given up on reading red hulk since the main character is incredibly repugnant and the complete lack of information frankly pisses me off (I'd be forgiving if it was an anime movie where only relevant information is provided or a web comic but not when I'm paying $4 an issue), I found that the book took place during the funeral for Thunderbolt ross following him getting killed with a single blow by Rulk (this despite the fact that he'd apparently drugged him and been whipping the piss out of him while wearing the redeemer armor), with various characters saying there piece for him (including rick jones and Bruce who they were nice enough to let escape during the 21 gun salute).
Other interesting tid bits are that Lyra is now working for Modok (why I haven't the slightest clue), Talbot and betty ross are alive (and a soldier guarding the grave site seemed not terribly surprised by this... why?) and Bruce was apparently in on the death of Ross (who was working with modok, the leader, the red ghost, the wizard and the mad tinker... why?) with the red hulk because it served both there plans.
Frankly, Gamma was mind bogglingly incoherent, but I've come to expect this kind of drivel from loeb. For a comparable expierience, take a hit of acid and watch a sarah palin speach.
Gaddez on
0
TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
I am completely confused by the Hulk's supporting cast right now. People are coming back to life left and right without explanation, some die off page, Samson is now crazy, lesigh.
Posts
Uh, no. The word "retard" isn't hate speech just because people catch on that it's used as an insult now. Literally every term attached to the "intellectually disabled" (as PC people put it now) has become an insult synonymous with stupidity eventually. This is literally where we get the words "moron", "imbecile", "idiot", "dimwit" and more. The problem is that the medical condition being discussed - having an IQ below a certain threshold of normalcy - is precisely what the person making an insult is trying to express.
This isn't like using "gay" to mean "lame", because there's nothing intrinsically "lame" about gayness, whereas in fact the very definition of being stupid is to be mentally retarded compared to normalcy.
And Val has never had that attitude of being smarter than everyone so she'll make fun of them. Plus, Franklin isn't stupid, he's just a normal kid.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Okay, if you weren't making a big point of it, then I def. don't want to make it a big argument. However, I don't think it's out of her character to toss of an insult like that, any more than it's out of character for virtually any child (special powers or not).
Moreover, the fact that Franklin isn't stupid is a relative thing: he is stupid compared to Val, isn't he? whatever IQ he's got, it's a good deal less than hers is, right?
In a world filled with as many geniuses and supergeniuses as Marvel's, the bar is set a good deal higher, I'd think.
(of course, given the stupidity of a populace that would accept Osborne in a position of power, maybe it averages out a great deal lower?)
How did it not read like that? She called him that and he reacted positively. It's literally the only way to read it.
Also, what are Franklin's powers, exactly? Couldn't he use them to make himself smarter?
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Wouldn't that make it just an ironic nickname, then, like calling a fat guy "Tiny"?
...
What?
Anyway, I've made this point umpteen times before in this and the last bitching thread. One of the reasons I've come to love Morrison is that he throws the kitchen sink at you and if it hits you in the face instead of you catching it, then oh well. That Batman & Robin interview he did has a great point: I'm one of those readers. I'm sick to effing death of going through my pulls and not having anything to really say about most of them. This month isn't even over and I've bought dozens of new books, and of those maybe ten were worth re-reading. It's probably not much of a surprise that four of them were by the same author, two were part of the comic adaptation of Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep and one was the immensely amazing Jonah Hex #50. Not one of those is from Bendis or his sidekick Reed (who I recently realized was the second-most prolific writer during Secret Invasion) or even Brubaker who I used to gush over like a schoolgirl.
I loved Final Crisis. I've read it about a dozen times, either straight through or in Morrison's "canon" reading order with Superman Beyond in the middle. It's amazing. And then on a whim I re-read Disassembled, and I was actually impressed because it moved along. It was a mess. Yeah. But the funny thing is that there's no time limit or read count limit on comics. I went through it three times looking for the Skrull during the Kree attack because of something I remembered reading two years ago during the lead up to SI (It didn't help that the problem seemed to be that the Skrull was being hidden at the edge of the page almost in the trade's binding). But reading through most Marvel arcs now is like taking a long hike and finding a sign at the end that says "Fuck You" because nothing gets resolved in collections that are put together for g-d trades. I can't wait for the New Avengers Dark Reign trade. The back cover can say "Earth's Mightiest Heroes sit around and talk, but don't actually say anything of value or face the conflicts that the whole banner concept was supposed to be about. All yours for $14.99, sucker."
The decompressed for the trade aspect of many stories is one reason I think I've been digging a lot of the recent 3-issue miniseries. Titles like Beta Ray Bill: Godhunter, DA: Ares, some of the Blackest Night miniseries, etc. You could easily see how each could be stretched for a 6-issue miniseries that is mroe trade friendly, but they set them at 3 and they feel a lot meatier than many monthlies and the stories are more focused and rarely waste pages.
Quoted for truth, even though this is the bitching thread. Jonah Hex is one of the best books coming out right now, ever since the Six Gun War arc.
However, I do agree that Civil War was not the best idea, and the end was not exactly satisfying.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Meanwhile, the Pro-Reg guys cloned Thor, made him a cyborg, and used him to fight Anti-Reg, resulting in the death of Goliath.
Civil War and its aftermath could have been handled better, but whatever.
That's what kind of ruined it. Cap is more of a dick in MUA2
As much as I enjoy my comics...
The premise behind Civil War never had a snowballs chance in hell at being fully realized, given comic book writers in general.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
He includes, for instance, a not fighting people powers-training group.
The...hell? No, the X-Men aren't fucking neutral. The X-Men have been against this exact plot from day one. The X-Men are teaming up with Magneto and everyone this side of Apocalypse to blow this thing up. It's like everyone responsible for this plan never even read their #1 selling comic book or watched any of the expanded media about it.
"Well, we did give you guys Homo supreme over there."
"Hey!"
"Not you Flatman."
Tumblr Twitter
I liked the bit about the X-Men resenting the heroes for not taking a stand against mutant registration too, though it's hard to take that as a legitimate judgment against non-mutant heroes when us readers realize that the reason Spider-Man never fought mutant registration is because all that business took place outside of his book. We can fill in the blanks, as the writer did, and assume indifference or self-absorption on the part of non-mutants, but it's not the same as actually seeing proof in the internal monologues of those characters.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
Did they side with the Pro-reg?
Hm? I'm not sure if I'm missing one of your puns.
This was the page I was talking about specifically.
Yeah, that's just a general issue with comic book "universes" overall. The X-Men are one thing, because of their theme of using mutants as each generation's persecuted minorities, but in general superheroes don't work as a concept if they're in number large enough to demand stuff like a Registration Act. We have to ask uncomfortable questions like this. But I have to admit I don't know all the details about the X-Men's ongoing story at that point. This was right after that Scarlet Witch's latest weird plot, right? Help me out here: what exactly are the mutant populations pre and post-this thing? And how exactly were they de facto registered? If anything, having numbers this low would make them more likely to go as anti-reg as humanly possible. Now it's not about protecting the poor oppressed mutants. It's purely about desperate survival by people who know EXACTLY what that means.
This brings me to the general problems with all these registration acts and civil wars and whatnot, namely that it seems like it would be a field day for the supervillains. Not just the ones who get to take free shots and the now pariahed superheroes, but the ones who tend to have real, big, take over the world schemes. Either they'll have a field day as their greatest enemies destroy each other, or when the government suddenly turns competent regarding super-villainous punishment they would go crazy on the registration powers and the anti-regs wouldn't have to do anything; they just had to get out of the way. Okay, I assume Magneto was out because of the Scarlet Witch thing and the Skrulls apparently did exactly what I just said in the next story arc, but in the interim there's no reason that Doctor Doom wasn't making the entirety of Europe his bitch. And really that's the big problem with Civil War and whatnot. If we assume that there is a balance between good and evil in a comic book universe, then when the heroes fight each other, the anti-reg team doesn't have to do anything but go into hiding because the pro-reg heroes should be keeping busy as the go up against twice the normal level of crooks, maniacs, and invading monstrosities. And Thor help them if someone like Apocalypse or Galactus pops by for a visit. Good luck with that Stark!
...No, wait, that's perfect. I normally support Joss Whedon's decisions, but THAT's how Civil War should have ended. Captain America's there, punching the shit out of Iron Man as usual, and he's stopped when he sees a crime. Not a big crime, not a world-ending thing, nothing that force the two opposing sides to work together without resolving anything, just something simple. A mugging; that's usually the default crime in these things. And Captain America abandons his big violent victory and he stops the mugging. He helps an innocent young couple who likely hate him at this point and send the thugs running. Because that's what he does. That's what a superhero IS. And that's what the rest of the heroes do. The pro-regs can play big scary government agents all they want, and maybe when it comes to the Hulk or superheroes that actually EXPLODE that's what they should do, but otherwise they should stay the hell out of the way of real heroes. Heroes who won't support their little piece of fascism, but who will neither waste their time fighting this escalating war nor can they do nothing when they see crime, real crime being committed. So what if 90% of the country hates them? How often has that happened to Spiderman? When HASN'T that happened to the X-Men? You do it because you're a hero and somebody has to, not because you're trying to make friends. Maybe Captain America hasn't been that kind of hero before, hasn't had to. But if that's what being a hero means right now, that's what he'll do.
And Tony Stark, former arms dealer desperately trying to make up for the sins of the past, slowly realizes he became all he tried to escape from and worse. And he doesn't need Spiderman villain to prove what we already knew was true. He has the registration erased and resigns from his position. And he puts on a spare suit and fights himself some bad guys.
https://twitter.com/Hooraydiation
were the hulk babies later repurposed into the hulk gang from old man logan?
This right here is the crux of the issue with Civil War. It's logical to assume that if there were large quantities of super power humans, they are either A) Going to gain dominion and rulership over normal humans or
But we suspend our disbelief because hey, it's a comic book. Civil War suddenly asks us to stop suspending our disbelief on this matter and in so doing makes a lot of stuff retroactively non-sensical.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I don't think Millar has officially stated that's the case but more than likely it is.
What a god damm clusterfuck. Having pretty much given up on reading red hulk since the main character is incredibly repugnant and the complete lack of information frankly pisses me off (I'd be forgiving if it was an anime movie where only relevant information is provided or a web comic but not when I'm paying $4 an issue), I found that the book took place during the funeral for Thunderbolt ross following him getting killed with a single blow by Rulk (this despite the fact that he'd apparently drugged him and been whipping the piss out of him while wearing the redeemer armor), with various characters saying there piece for him (including rick jones and Bruce who they were nice enough to let escape during the 21 gun salute).
Other interesting tid bits are that Lyra is now working for Modok (why I haven't the slightest clue), Talbot and betty ross are alive (and a soldier guarding the grave site seemed not terribly surprised by this... why?) and Bruce was apparently in on the death of Ross (who was working with modok, the leader, the red ghost, the wizard and the mad tinker... why?) with the red hulk because it served both there plans.
Frankly, Gamma was mind bogglingly incoherent, but I've come to expect this kind of drivel from loeb. For a comparable expierience, take a hit of acid and watch a sarah palin speach.