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The Ultimate BITCHING About Bad Comics Thread

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Posts

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.

    The best Civil War What If? is when the annhilation wave gets to Earth, and Nova lands to see all the heroes having a fight. They are starting to explain themselves as Worldmind is talking to Rich, who cuts off the Worldmind saying that he wants to hear their excuses as to what they are doing. Great moment, which really compounds the feeling that you gain in the mainstream Nova series when Nova tells stark that he "pulled Annihilus' heart out through his mouth, what have you done lately?" The Earth heroes are squabbling when one of the most horrific wars ever is going on in space.

    Solar on
  • KVWKVW Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.

    Is it the same as the one on Tom B's blog?

    KVW on
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    KVW wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.

    Is it the same as the one on Tom B's blog?

    Yep, that's it. Damn good read if you have the patience to go through it.

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • VermisVermis Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    With all the whining I've heard about Civil War during and after the fact, pretty much the only response I can give anymore is wonder about what kind of ivory thrones internet nerds rest their arses on.
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Having pretty much given up on reading red hulk since the main character is incredibly repugnant

    I'd disagree, but, well... you'd expect me to. :P But's what's your reason?
    and the complete lack of information frankly pisses me off... when I'm paying $4 an issue

    Simple solution there, really.
    the funeral for Thunderbolt ross following him getting killed

    What, again?
    with a single blow by Rulk (this despite the fact that he'd apparently drugged him and been whipping the piss out of him while wearing the redeemer armor)

    Try to imagine him as green. People don't seem to mind as much then.
    Other interesting tid bits are that Lyra is now working for Modok (why I haven't the slightest clue)

    He's behind the sudden rash of gamma-powered beings (Including A-Bomb and 'Dr. Samson and Leonard Hyde') . Wouldn't be too surprising - or, TBH, a massive or even minor shake-up of 616 - if he was behind Lyra's creation too.
    betty ross [is] alive... Ross (who was working with modok, the leader, the red ghost, the wizard and the mad tinker... why?)

    Did you read Fall of the Hulks: Alpha? Did you read anything regarding Betty's 'death' since it happened?

    Vermis on
    rulksig.jpg
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Solar wrote: »
    Speaking of alternate ways Civil War could have gone, I wish I could post the full first draft of Mark Millar's pitch for the story which is in the Civil War hardcover. The Hulk babies alone are worth it.

    The best Civil War What If? is when the annhilation wave gets to Earth, and Nova lands to see all the heroes having a fight. They are starting to explain themselves as Worldmind is talking to Rich, who cuts off the Worldmind saying that he wants to hear their excuses as to what they are doing. Great moment, which really compounds the feeling that you gain in the mainstream Nova series when Nova tells stark that he "pulled Annihilus' heart out through his mouth, what have you done lately?" The Earth heroes are squabbling when one of the most horrific wars ever is going on in space.

    To be fair, no one on Earth would really give a shit when every single one of those races have tried to exterminate or subjugate Earth at least once in recent memory. There is also the problem of no one on Earth has any fucking clue it's happening. I mean yes, Annihilus bad and so on, but really, not Earth's problem for a variety of reasons..

    Fencingsax on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    It's strange that Earth wouldn't know. I'd have assumed Reed was in contact with alien races and that the X-Men maintained some sort of connection to the Shi'ar.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Vermis wrote: »
    With all the whining I've heard about Civil War during and after the fact, pretty much the only response I can give anymore is wonder about what kind of ivory thrones internet nerds rest their arses on.
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Having pretty much given up on reading red hulk since the main character is incredibly repugnant

    I'd disagree, but, well... you'd expect me to. :P But's what's your reason?
    Well for starters the character seems to get new powers seemingly at random (seriously? He drained the hulk of his gamma radiation?), he has no apparent weaknesses (Ok, he did get angry enough to apparently overheat but that's only ever happened once), The character's personality is grating as hell, He's cock whipped just about every hero put in his path (only galactus has been able to curb stomp the mary sue)... Honestly it's like reading bad fan fiction.
    and the complete lack of information frankly pisses me off... when I'm paying $4 an issue

    Simple solution there, really.
    Hence why I don't buy I meant red hulk anymore.
    the funeral for Thunderbolt ross following him getting killed

    What, again?
    Did you actually read the comic vermis? It takes place mostly in a funeral parlor. With a coffin. That has ross laying in it.
    with a single blow by Rulk (this despite the fact that he'd apparently drugged him and been whipping the piss out of him while wearing the redeemer armor)

    Try to imagine him as green. People don't seem to mind as much then.
    The problem with rulk is that he does this shit all the fucking time. Nobody ever beats him because Loeb either decides that he's too smart or too powerful for them to fight. IF this were to happen with the savage hulk, you can for damm sure bet Bruce would be haunted by the death of this man for a long long time.
    Other interesting tid bits are that Lyra is now working for Modok (why I haven't the slightest clue)

    He's behind the sudden rash of gamma-powered beings (Including A-Bomb and 'Dr. Samson and Leonard Hyde') . Wouldn't be too surprising - or, TBH, a massive or even minor shake-up of 616 - if he was behind Lyra's creation too.
    Salmoned for you not having a clue what the fuck your talking about. Lyra Had a comic dedicated to her arrival (and conception too come to thing of it) from her mother thundra's fucked up gender wars time line. She's a field agent of ARMOR, and has a yen for tracking down She hulk whom she has a deep respect for.

    Now that your caught up on the character's origin, perhaps you'd like to explain why a character with a strong moral base has aligned herself with the intelligencia.
    betty ross [is] alive... Ross (who was working with modok, the leader, the red ghost, the wizard and the mad tinker... why?)

    Did you read Fall of the Hulks: Alpha? Did you read anything regarding Betty's 'death' since it happened?
    [/quote]Yes I did actually, and It was frankly quite well done (Then again, Loeb wasn't involved so there you go). I'm still trying to figure out what that has to do with ross allying with a band of known terrorists when the man he was most concerned with defeating was safely contained about a mile under the ground.

    As to betty's origional death, I must admit that I didn't start reading comics until 2007, but since then I've seen no references to her status as anything other then worm food.

    Scratch that, there was a tube at one of the leader's bases that bruce visited recently with her name on it. Is this what your talking about? cuz yeah. That's really reaching, and does nothing to explain why Talbot is so lively.

    Gaddez on
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    It's strange that Earth wouldn't know. I'd have assumed Reed was in contact with alien races and that the X-Men maintained some sort of connection to the Shi'ar.

    The shi'ar weren't involved in Annihilation since the wave never hit there galaxy.

    Gaddez on
  • kdrudykdrudy Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    And Reed was too busy with Tony circle jerking over their brains to realize bigger shit was going down.

    kdrudy on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    All they got were rumors. It was said specifically by Tony. So they got info, it was simply useless.

    Fencingsax on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    But if they hadn't have been fighting and had been paying attention to what was going on, they might have investigated those rumour and been able to help massively. How often have the F4 been able to stopm horrendous galaxy destroying bad guys by themselves? Just Reed Richard would have been a huge asset to the allied front, but that brain was too busy building Thor clones, Negative Zone prisons and arguing with his wife.

    Solar on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Given the end result, I'm perfectly happy for Earth to have stayed away from Annihilation.

    Crimsondude on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Solar wrote: »
    But if they hadn't have been fighting and had been paying attention to what was going on, they might have investigated those rumour and been able to help massively. How often have the F4 been able to stopm horrendous galaxy destroying bad guys by themselves? Just Reed Richard would have been a huge asset to the allied front, but that brain was too busy building Thor clones, Negative Zone prisons and arguing with his wife.

    Meh, it's quite clear that the rest of the Nova corps absolutely sucks, and on a scale of being an asshole, Reed has nothing on a lot of the others who participated in the war, so I don't see why you're bitching.

    Fencingsax on
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Oh, just to make it clear I can't ever remember if I've said this but I read Identity Crisis a while ago.

    I want to preface this by saying that I've read some awful comics in my life, probably from before a lot of people here were born. But also not that recently (and that doesn't even include the fact that I am the only person on GV who still likes Chris Claremont). I've read me some Jeph Loeb Rulk and Ultimates. I've even read Tarot just to be sure.

    Identity Crisis is the worst comic I've ever read in all my decades on Earth. And every criticism it receives is well-deserved. It is the most pointlessly nihilistic and utterly worthless piece of crap that I've read in years and everyone involved with it should be ashamed. Even Loeb, et al. people who get ripped on regularly here and elsewhere generally have some point to their story or something to contribute, even if it's enjoyed ironically (like making fun of Ultimate Wolverine watching his kid have sex). Identity Crisis makes me want to lock myself in a room with all of the worst mind-effed people I've ever met in my life because they don't want to make me want to kill everyone and myself as much as Identity Crisis did.

    Crimsondude on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Who benefits, Crimson? Who Benefits?

    People who draw rape pages, that's who.

    TexiKen on
  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    edited December 2009
    Identity Crisis is a great comic for people who don't read comics.

    Garlic Bread on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I will read Identity Crisis one day

    I think I have to

    The Lovely Bastard on
    7656367.jpg
  • jkylefultonjkylefulton Squid...or Kid? NNID - majpellRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    No, TLB.

    No, you do not have to.

    Spend that money on Frankencastle.

    jkylefulton on
    tOkYVT2.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Keith wrote: »
    Identity Crisis is a great comic for people who don't read comics.

    Is it especially good for people who don't read comics or just more palatable to them than others because they are blind to its shortcomings, for lack of comparison?

    Robos A Go Go on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Even if you didn't read comics, as a mystery it falls flat on its face thinking it can pull it off just because it's in a comic world.

    TexiKen on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I didn't hate Identity Crisis. I'm probably one of the few who don't. But I didn't think it was terrible. And I mean, some of the stuff that happened in it is still relevant to the DCU, so its kind of hard to deny the impact it had.

    And I thought the whole Ralph Dibny story arc in 52, which came directly from events in IC was a very good part of the story.

    Lucascraft on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    But the Dibny stuff in 52 (which was written by Waid), that was perfectly set up to a Batman-level of planning by Ralph.

    The ending to Identity Crisis just makes no sense. A flamethrower, really? For all the nice moments (like Calculator being the evil Oracle), the main story is just bad. And what makes it even worse is that in the comic medium, where you can give visual and written clues, there could have been a greater use of hints about who the criminal was, but you never see them foreshadowed because it reads like Meltzer didn't know where to go after issue #5.

    TexiKen on
  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The Deathstroke fight was the biggest bit of fan-wank translated to the page that I've ever seen, and it was kind of the cherry on the crap-cake that was that entire book.

    HadjiQuest on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    TexiKen wrote: »
    But the Dibny stuff in 52 (which was written by Waid), that was perfectly set up to a Batman-level of planning by Ralph.

    I'm kind of worn out on hating on Identity Crisis, so let me hate on this instead.
    What the fuck was the point of putting Ralph into conflict with Faust or Neron? He had no history with them, his defeat over them lasted all of what, three or four months before it was undone, and it just generally seemed really random.

    I mean, I guess there's something to be said for the thematic significance of Ralph clashing with a guy who sold his soul to get something he wanted, and then beating both that guy, as well as DC's stand-in for Satan himself, but the journey to that destination was so long and winding that I felt the resolution wound up lacking impact.

    And then Didio wouldn't even let Waid do a Ghost Detectives series, and the Dibnys wound up being reduced to Deadman II and Deadwoman, which is kind of a waste in my opinion. Feh.

    Munch on
  • Futt BuckerFutt Bucker CTRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Munch wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    But the Dibny stuff in 52 (which was written by Waid), that was perfectly set up to a Batman-level of planning by Ralph.

    I'm kind of worn out on hating on Identity Crisis, so let me hate on this instead.
    What the fuck was the point of putting Ralph into conflict with Faust or Neron? He had no history with them, his defeat over them lasted all of what, three or four months before it was undone, and it just generally seemed really random.

    I mean, I guess there's something to be said for the thematic significance of Ralph clashing with a guy who sold his soul to get something he wanted, and then beating both that guy, as well as DC's stand-in for Satan himself, but the journey to that destination was so long and winding that I felt the resolution wound up lacking impact.

    And then Didio wouldn't even let Waid do a Ghost Detectives series, and the Dibnys wound up being reduced to Deadman II and Deadwoman, which is kind of a waste in my opinion. Feh.

    Did ANYONE besides Dixon use them as such? I only remember them showing up in that one issue of Batman and the Outsiders.

    Futt Bucker on
    My color is black to the blind
  • DJ EebsDJ Eebs Moderator, Administrator admin
    edited January 2010
    Munch wrote: »
    TexiKen wrote: »
    But the Dibny stuff in 52 (which was written by Waid), that was perfectly set up to a Batman-level of planning by Ralph.

    I'm kind of worn out on hating on Identity Crisis, so let me hate on this instead.
    What the fuck was the point of putting Ralph into conflict with Faust or Neron? He had no history with them, his defeat over them lasted all of what, three or four months before it was undone, and it just generally seemed really random.

    I mean, I guess there's something to be said for the thematic significance of Ralph clashing with a guy who sold his soul to get something he wanted, and then beating both that guy, as well as DC's stand-in for Satan himself, but the journey to that destination was so long and winding that I felt the resolution wound up lacking impact.

    And then Didio wouldn't even let Waid do a Ghost Detectives series, and the Dibnys wound up being reduced to Deadman II and Deadwoman, which is kind of a waste in my opinion. Feh.

    Dibny's entire storyline in 52 fell flat for me. I never understood what everyone was so excited about.

    DJ Eebs on
  • TeaSpoonTeaSpoon Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I loved 52 not just for the actual comic, but also for the interviews and blackboards. The fun came from speculating what would happen next. Ralph Dibny's story kept us guessing a lot. Would he really succeed in resurrecting Sue? Did he really become a drunk or is he drinking something else? What was his wish?

    It was fun debating theories each week after we got new clues. In hindsight, all he did was walk around, but it was exciting at the time.

    TeaSpoon on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Did ANYONE besides Dixon use them as such? I only remember them showing up in that one issue of Batman and the Outsiders.

    Didio wrote a brief framing sequence with them. And someone else wrote a Christmas story with them, which was pretty bad.

    I've said before, while Ghost Detectives sounds cool, in practice I don't know how well it would work. Because ghosts aren't typically hindered by the same things that would deter normal detectives, and pouring mysticism into detective stories allows any mystery to be resolved with, "A wizard did it!" Which is pretty unsatisfying.

    Munch on
  • Bloods EndBloods End Blade of Tyshalle Punch dimensionRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Munch wrote: »
    Did ANYONE besides Dixon use them as such? I only remember them showing up in that one issue of Batman and the Outsiders.

    Didio wrote a brief framing sequence with them. And someone else wrote a Christmas story with them, which was pretty bad.

    I've said before, while Ghost Detectives sounds cool, in practice I don't know how well it would work. Because ghosts aren't typically hindered by the same things that would deter normal detectives, and pouring mysticism into detective stories allows any mystery to be resolved with, "A wizard did it!" Which is pretty unsatisfying.

    That Halloween story was awesome and you're a commie.

    Bloods End on
  • Mortal SkyMortal Sky queer punk hedge witchRegistered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm just gonna say one thing:
    The Sandman manga comic spinoffs.

    Mortal Sky on
  • HenslerHensler Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    The only Zatanna solo story I've ever read was her 7 Soldiers book, so I mostly know her from team books and cartoons, but I fucking hate that bitch. She is a walking deus ex machina, and I cringe whenever I see her in a book.

    Hensler on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm not a big fan of magic wielding super-heroes in general. I get enough sorcerers and mages from the fantasy rpgs I play. Characters such as Zatanna, Dr. Strange, and other super-wizards don't really interest me in the slightest.

    Thematically they always seem out of place to me. I mean, in the Marvel Universe, most of the powers and origins can be explained by science or pseudo-science. Hulk's powers come from the x-gene getting activated by gamma radiation. Spider-Man's powers come from the x-gene getting activated by radioactive spider venom. The mutant's x-genes activated on their own, often at puberty, or other times in moments of high stress. And the list goes on. Then you have a random one or two magicians, who just don't really fit.

    The same is true in DC. Most of the DC heroes are either alien, self-made, or technologically based. Then you've got Zatanna who just doesn't fit with the rest of them.

    It bugs me.

    Lucascraft on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I don't think magic has no place in the two major comic universes, but I do agree that magic heroes are tailor-made for magical threats and should generally be restricted to them or threats to which magic does not present an immediate path to victory.

    Course, the same could be said for all sorts of power sets. Flash and Superman shouldn't be utilized against a certain set of threats either, as they can become a deus ex as well.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    TeaSpoon wrote: »
    I loved 52 not just for the actual comic, but also for the interviews and blackboards. The fun came from speculating what would happen next. Ralph Dibny's story kept us guessing a lot. Would he really succeed in resurrecting Sue? Did he really become a drunk or is he drinking something else? What was his wish?

    It was fun debating theories each week after we got new clues. In hindsight, all he did was walk around, but it was exciting at the time.

    When all the character does is walk around but you still care, that's a good story.

    Granted, Justice League kind of ruined the story before it came out, and the Black Adam mini seemed to have been delayed or something (or looking at it now it was DC completely missing the timing of new releases), but it was fun and worked well with the weekly format.

    On a related note, who was the main writer for the Everyman stuff? You had Waid with Ralph, Rucka doing the Question stuff (duh), Morrison with the villain Island, Booster's stuff was split between Morrison and Waid, and Johns wrote the Black Adam stuff.

    TexiKen on
  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    Bloods End wrote: »
    That Halloween story was awesome and you're a commie.

    I remember being immediately put off by the weirdly photo referenced art of Dennis Calero, so maybe I'm being unfair and need to read it again. But to my recollection it was a pretty dopey Encyclopedia Brown style mystery with underwhelming art and a mildly depressing conclusion.
    Mortal Sky wrote:
    I'm just gonna say one thing:
    The Sandman manga comic spinoffs.

    Okay, Dead Boy Detectives was pretty swell. But Jill Thompson's like, magic or something. It's the only way to explain why I like Beasts of Burden so much.
    I don't think magic has no place in the two major comic universes, but I do agree that magic heroes are tailor-made for magical threats and should generally be restricted to them or threats to which magic does not present an immediate path to victory.

    Course, the same could be said for all sorts of power sets. Flash and Superman shouldn't be utilized against a certain set of threats either, as they can become a deus ex as well.

    I think writers should make more of an effort to, when creating magic characters, put a cap on their powers or abilities. I thought Brian Vaughan gave Nico Minoru a pretty neat restriction, in that she should only cast a spell one time. And Mark Waid's doing some interesting stuff in Strange, exploring the ramifications of casting powerful magic without fully understanding it.

    I think too often writers create magic characters who have no readily defined power cap, and can do a host of crazy shit. Which is fine, as long as they have some kind of weakness or deficiency to offset it. Like, I really don't mind Zatanna so much, because she's only powerful if she can actually speak, or write a spell backward. Which gives writers an easy way to challenge her, while still allowing her some wiggle room to find creative ways around that restriction.

    Munch on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    When you have the magic and the modern meet, it can be fun.

    Like in JLA: Obsidian Age, Jason Blood is called up to be on the team, and he's hanging out on the moon in the JLA Watchtower and basically telling the heroes (Nightwing and Atom) that there's so much high tech stuff but they have jack squat for magic defenses so he gives them magic firewalls and stuff. That can be good fun.

    Characters like Black Alice though, yeah, I don't like them. Even if she's in Secret Six.

    TexiKen on
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm reading about the events of Superman: Birthright, and I have to say that the whole idea of Luthor being bald because he lost his hair in a science experiment gone wrong is just about the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

    Robos A Go Go on
  • mattharvestmattharvest Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm reading about the events of Superman: Birthright, and I have to say that the whole idea of Luthor being bald because he lost his hair in a science experiment gone wrong is just about the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

    Well, it's one of the oldest aspects of his origin. Way back when, in the 80s, I remember reading more than one comic retelling of this. I think the pocket-verse origin for him included this, too.

    What's more baffling is that, all these years later, if it still bothered him, why he hasn't fixed it by now given his absurd science abilities.

    mattharvest on
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I always liked Tim Sale's depiction of Luthor in Superman For All Seasons.

    Lucascraft on
  • MastaPMastaP Registered User regular
    edited January 2010
    I'm reading about the events of Superman: Birthright, and I have to say that the whole idea of Luthor being bald because he lost his hair in a science experiment gone wrong is just about the most laughable thing I've ever heard.

    Well why don't you read the STORY instead of reading about the EVENTS OF A STORY. Changes how you think about the happenings.

    MastaP on
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