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Let's talk about Enigma of Amigara Fault
The_Spaniard
It's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
It's never lupinesIrvine, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
A while back a thread was made in the G&T section in which Amigara Fault was mentioned and people off-topiced for pages and pages about this awesome comic. Somebody finally said take it to another thread, so after a while of thinking about it I think I shall.
http://brasscockroach.com/h4ll0w33n2007/manga/Amigara-Full/Amigara-0.html
Read it, shit your pants, sleep with the lights on, and then discuss it here.
I really enjoyed it, I'm claustrophobic so it creeped me out a bit, and it had some good and quite uncommon original horror concepts. I thought it was a really cool story. What do you guys think of it?
Extra credit: Pick apart a guy that said the story sucked donkey balls.
Edit: Oh right I almost forgot, since it is a story from a strange place where everybody communicates via moon speak, you have to read it from right to left, also DRR.. DRR.. DRR..
http://brasscockroach.com/h4ll0w33n2007/manga/Amigara-Full/Amigara-0.html
Read it, shit your pants, sleep with the lights on, and then discuss it here.
I really enjoyed it, I'm claustrophobic so it creeped me out a bit, and it had some good and quite uncommon original horror concepts. I thought it was a really cool story. What do you guys think of it?
Extra credit: Pick apart a guy that said the story sucked donkey balls.
*****: so I read that horror manga thing you sent me
*****: there are so many issues with it
Span_Wolf: are you going to start picking appart horror?
*****: ones that don't make sense, yes
Span_Wolf: =P that's horror in general
*****: not necessarily
Span_Wolf: ok so what was wrong, there were a few common complaints about it that I was able to explain
*****: how were the holes created?
Span_Wolf: suspension of disbelief
*****: yeah... that's the thing that kept me from suspending my disbelief
Span_Wolf: the idea of how the holes work though is relitively sound
*****: not really
Span_Wolf: just look at a ziptie
*****: that's rigid against rigid surface
Span_Wolf: how about this
*****: there is a lot of squeeze room with the human body
Span_Wolf: believe me that I know this because I got my arm stuck in a hole that worked just the same way when I was a child
*****: let me guess, did you panic?
Span_Wolf: I was a child, but it was a hole that was cut in a way that you could slide in easily, but had very subtle teeth in the opposite direction
*****: did you get your arm out?
Span_Wolf: somebody poured a bottle of oil over my arm and into the hole, lots of pulling and a little bit of lost flesh
*****: it was a metal hole, wasn't it?
Span_Wolf: yes it was a hole on the side of a bench made for holding a sun umbrella, so yes
*****: a hole in a rock will have different affect than a hole in metal
*****: but regardless to the whole tooth in rock theory, there are two other really big issues
Span_Wolf: I'm just saying while suspending your disbelief the the idea of the rock being carved in the same way as that hole that I got stuck in as a kid is basically sound
Span_Wolf: whether it would work or not
Span_Wolf: you can expect to suspend your disbelief enough to say ok the basic idea makes sense
*****: I still disagree with that part
Span_Wolf: remember I'm not saying it's scientifically sound, just that the average person could comprehend the basic idea and go ok I get it
*****: that's not the same as suspension of disbelief ]:=8P
Span_Wolf: it goes hand in hand
*****: no it doesn't ]:=8P
*****: getting a concept doesn't mean you find it believable, even if it is in the context of a story
Span_Wolf: that's up to you if you want to suspend it
*****: you watch a bad movie, and you can understand why they did something stupid in it, but that doesn't mean you have been engaged in the story
Span_Wolf: that's what I'm saying =P
*****: no it isn't!
Span_Wolf: it's what I'm trying to say =P
*****: ]:=8P
*****: anyways, moving on
Span_Wolf: I could imagine that enjoying a movie would be quite difficult with you =P
*****: the next part, the human body would go into hypothermia loooong before the body could begin to get warped around
Span_Wolf: Ok I'm going to just let you know I'm going to have explosive diarrhea if that is really going to be a complaint of yours
Span_Wolf: I could name a thousand non realistic things in the story, the whole idea of the story is that the holes are supernatural
*****: if you're going to write a story, know what the fuck you're talking about
Span_Wolf: they called out to people, they hypnotize them due to original sin, and then fuck them up in all sorts of supernatural and magical ways
*****: two responses to that
Span_Wolf: is your next complaint that nobody would be alive months later?
Span_Wolf: because I'll eat my own head
*****: yup... which is actually in direct repsonse to what you just said
*****: if they are indeed supernatural, how did they die in the first place?
Span_Wolf: I don't understand exactly what you are asking?
*****: okay, if you tell me that the holes are supernatural, and that's what kept them alive through the extreme forces on the body, then how did they die when they were first put in the holes long ago?
Span_Wolf: It could be a Grudge situation where the first people died and now they are haunting the holes and calling to their ancestors, it IS a Japanese story
*****: the whole flashback dream stuff shows him as the one guilty
Span_Wolf: Fact of the matter is we don't know half the details, the story was meant to be taken as is and you are supposed to fill in the details, it's Slice of Life story telling, as a film buff you should be familiar with that Japanese institution
*****: the whole was shaped perfectly for him, no one else
Span_Wolf: Ancestor
*****: argh... so you're saying that the ancestor and him have the EXACT same body shape?
Span_Wolf: yes there are several Japanese stories and movies with that exact same concept of identical ancestry
*****: you do understand that it's basically physically impossible for that to happen, right?
Span_Wolf: It's a fucking campfire horror story!
*****: a shitty one!
Span_Wolf: your overly analytical and probably ruin most stories told to you
*****: hah... if they're good, I don't
*****: and if was a campfire horror story, it would be told around a campfire, not in manga
*****: if you put something in text or in drawings, you need to put more effort into it
*****: sure, it may be scary to a kid, but I'm not a kid ]:=8P
Span_Wolf: "The otherworldliness of it is that no matter your current shape, it is made for you. Or perhaps the idea is that the stars align such that your ancient ancestor who was sent in originally was the exact shape as you will be when you notice yours."
*****: so that's basically saying that it's supernatural... then my point still stands. How did they die in the first place?
*****: and clearly, there is no concept of being able to repay your debt to society
*****: and it seems that a fuckton of people did these crimes that were so heinous that they had to suffer that kind of fate
Span_Wolf: There is noway that we are going to agree on this
Span_Wolf: but I'll do you one better, let me just get back to you in a day or two
*****: just remember, I went to school to develop stories
*****: and I'm applying to grad school to do even more of that
Span_Wolf: you must think that just about everything Lovecraft and possibly even Poe wrote is crap
*****: so you're putting this up with literary geniuses like them?
Span_Wolf: no, but they wrote a ton of the same kind of crap
Span_Wolf: Lovecraft is one of my favorite authors of all time
*****: my point is, I'm probably better at analyzing this than you are.
I'm not saying that I know any better than him, but that his snobish I went to school to be a film maker attitude just ruins his view of pretty much everything that the average person like us can enjoy for a decent horror story like it is. Since he now views everything on a "higher level" he can no longer enjoy the average story and has to question everything. I say it is a perfectly enjoyable and for some quite frightening story, if you can just sit back and enjoy it for what it is, suspend your disbelief, and don't question every God damned thing about it.*****: there are so many issues with it
Span_Wolf: are you going to start picking appart horror?
*****: ones that don't make sense, yes
Span_Wolf: =P that's horror in general
*****: not necessarily
Span_Wolf: ok so what was wrong, there were a few common complaints about it that I was able to explain
*****: how were the holes created?
Span_Wolf: suspension of disbelief
*****: yeah... that's the thing that kept me from suspending my disbelief
Span_Wolf: the idea of how the holes work though is relitively sound
*****: not really
Span_Wolf: just look at a ziptie
*****: that's rigid against rigid surface
Span_Wolf: how about this
*****: there is a lot of squeeze room with the human body
Span_Wolf: believe me that I know this because I got my arm stuck in a hole that worked just the same way when I was a child
*****: let me guess, did you panic?
Span_Wolf: I was a child, but it was a hole that was cut in a way that you could slide in easily, but had very subtle teeth in the opposite direction
*****: did you get your arm out?
Span_Wolf: somebody poured a bottle of oil over my arm and into the hole, lots of pulling and a little bit of lost flesh
*****: it was a metal hole, wasn't it?
Span_Wolf: yes it was a hole on the side of a bench made for holding a sun umbrella, so yes
*****: a hole in a rock will have different affect than a hole in metal
*****: but regardless to the whole tooth in rock theory, there are two other really big issues
Span_Wolf: I'm just saying while suspending your disbelief the the idea of the rock being carved in the same way as that hole that I got stuck in as a kid is basically sound
Span_Wolf: whether it would work or not
Span_Wolf: you can expect to suspend your disbelief enough to say ok the basic idea makes sense
*****: I still disagree with that part
Span_Wolf: remember I'm not saying it's scientifically sound, just that the average person could comprehend the basic idea and go ok I get it
*****: that's not the same as suspension of disbelief ]:=8P
Span_Wolf: it goes hand in hand
*****: no it doesn't ]:=8P
*****: getting a concept doesn't mean you find it believable, even if it is in the context of a story
Span_Wolf: that's up to you if you want to suspend it
*****: you watch a bad movie, and you can understand why they did something stupid in it, but that doesn't mean you have been engaged in the story
Span_Wolf: that's what I'm saying =P
*****: no it isn't!
Span_Wolf: it's what I'm trying to say =P
*****: ]:=8P
*****: anyways, moving on
Span_Wolf: I could imagine that enjoying a movie would be quite difficult with you =P
*****: the next part, the human body would go into hypothermia loooong before the body could begin to get warped around
Span_Wolf: Ok I'm going to just let you know I'm going to have explosive diarrhea if that is really going to be a complaint of yours
Span_Wolf: I could name a thousand non realistic things in the story, the whole idea of the story is that the holes are supernatural
*****: if you're going to write a story, know what the fuck you're talking about
Span_Wolf: they called out to people, they hypnotize them due to original sin, and then fuck them up in all sorts of supernatural and magical ways
*****: two responses to that
Span_Wolf: is your next complaint that nobody would be alive months later?
Span_Wolf: because I'll eat my own head
*****: yup... which is actually in direct repsonse to what you just said
*****: if they are indeed supernatural, how did they die in the first place?
Span_Wolf: I don't understand exactly what you are asking?
*****: okay, if you tell me that the holes are supernatural, and that's what kept them alive through the extreme forces on the body, then how did they die when they were first put in the holes long ago?
Span_Wolf: It could be a Grudge situation where the first people died and now they are haunting the holes and calling to their ancestors, it IS a Japanese story
*****: the whole flashback dream stuff shows him as the one guilty
Span_Wolf: Fact of the matter is we don't know half the details, the story was meant to be taken as is and you are supposed to fill in the details, it's Slice of Life story telling, as a film buff you should be familiar with that Japanese institution
*****: the whole was shaped perfectly for him, no one else
Span_Wolf: Ancestor
*****: argh... so you're saying that the ancestor and him have the EXACT same body shape?
Span_Wolf: yes there are several Japanese stories and movies with that exact same concept of identical ancestry
*****: you do understand that it's basically physically impossible for that to happen, right?
Span_Wolf: It's a fucking campfire horror story!
*****: a shitty one!
Span_Wolf: your overly analytical and probably ruin most stories told to you
*****: hah... if they're good, I don't
*****: and if was a campfire horror story, it would be told around a campfire, not in manga
*****: if you put something in text or in drawings, you need to put more effort into it
*****: sure, it may be scary to a kid, but I'm not a kid ]:=8P
Span_Wolf: "The otherworldliness of it is that no matter your current shape, it is made for you. Or perhaps the idea is that the stars align such that your ancient ancestor who was sent in originally was the exact shape as you will be when you notice yours."
*****: so that's basically saying that it's supernatural... then my point still stands. How did they die in the first place?
*****: and clearly, there is no concept of being able to repay your debt to society
*****: and it seems that a fuckton of people did these crimes that were so heinous that they had to suffer that kind of fate
Span_Wolf: There is noway that we are going to agree on this
Span_Wolf: but I'll do you one better, let me just get back to you in a day or two
*****: just remember, I went to school to develop stories
*****: and I'm applying to grad school to do even more of that
Span_Wolf: you must think that just about everything Lovecraft and possibly even Poe wrote is crap
*****: so you're putting this up with literary geniuses like them?
Span_Wolf: no, but they wrote a ton of the same kind of crap
Span_Wolf: Lovecraft is one of my favorite authors of all time
*****: my point is, I'm probably better at analyzing this than you are.
Edit: Oh right I almost forgot, since it is a story from a strange place where everybody communicates via moon speak, you have to read it from right to left, also DRR.. DRR.. DRR..
Playstation/Origin/GoG: Span_Wolf Xbox/uPlay/Bnet: SpanWolf Nintendo: Span_Wolf SW-7097-4917-9392 Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/Span_Wolf/
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Posts
That actually seems to be a bit of a recurring theme in Ito's work, since the base premise of Gyo involves copious farting, and well, the protagonist's uncle and his zeppelin.
I didn't get around to reading the exchange until know, but seriously? Span Wolf was definitely the douchebag in that exchange. Not everyone is able to accept weird premises at face value, and this story has a _very_ weird premise, and Span Wolf's responses boil down to essentially, 'A wizard did it! Accept that!' It certainly doesn't help that his other rhetoric is crap like, 'your overly analytical and probably ruin most stories told to you.'
The other dude did definitely get nitpicky and not acknowledging that there should be things you allow a bit more give one, but then again, that's another one of those things about Ito's works. They're evocative and creepy, but if afterward you sit down and start to think about, 'How would that really work?' things start to come apart pretty fast.
A short story is going to leave a lot left unexplained and up to the reader to draw conclusions on, because that's the nature of the beast. However, too many elements like this and the story story ends up with more baggage than it can carry. The Enigma of Amigara Fault is weird and creepy, but it's also one of those that come apart pretty fast when you start thinking about it. It's like how 'The Sad Tale of the Principal Post' is an amusing little story that you do have to just accept as presented, but you can't really fault someone for wanting to know, 'just how did he get under there in the first place?'
Horror is a really hard thing to do in comics, but for some reason, Japanese creators seem to do it much better than Americans. I think it's a combination of the black and white style used in manga, the decompressed nature of their comics, which allows for a bigger build-up of tension, and that the Japanese just seem to have a much more alien, understated style of horror in their entertainment.
I'd actually really like to one day make a horror webcomic that had to be read one panel at a time, with occasional gimmicks to make the reading experience more immersive; creepy, unexpected .gif effects, eerie sounds, broken image links, and all kinds of nutty shit like that. All very subtle and sparingly used.
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It is kind of a 'and they realized the calls were coming from inside the house!' sort of conclusion, isn't it, although I imagine if you get creeped out by body-horror it'd have a bigger kick too. Still, that's about the most appropriate ending it could've gotten.
I wasn't ever calling the story high art, but simply an enjoyable popcorn suspense thriller that you suspend your analytical mind long enough to enjoy and get a few goosebumps over.
P.S. This is a friend that I was chatting with, so it's not so much us saying fuck you asshole to eachother, but giving eachother a harder time because we are friends.
Feel free to discuss all you like Ito related.
Yup. So much so that I tried to resurrect my old PA account from like 2005 just to answer that question because the answer is, "Yup."
Much like Lovecraft and Poe, Ito's concepts are often so deviously simple in their ability to induce a state of preternatural fear that it's like the melody to an old pop song: You're not sure when or where you've heard it before; you just know it sounds familiar. He's the Jim Croce of existential dread and Enigma at Amigara Fault is a prime example.
TRUE STORY: A couple years back, I was dating this girl who hated horror movies but somehow loved reading scary stories. She'd read even more Stephen King than me. I suggested she check out some of Ito's manga collections and she was like "what's a manga" and I told her it was Japanese comic books and she was like "oh, so like anime" and she gave me this look that said: Seriously? Scary ANIME?
So, I started describing the plot of Amigara and before I could even get to the part where people started going into the holes, her expression turned uneasy and she shouted, "STOP!"
"What?"
She seemed to be struggling to find the words to properly explain her reaction. Finally, she shrugged and said, "...You know I hate anime."
But the the real reason my ex was so freaked out by the synopsis to Amigara is because she was overcome by the same existential sense of horror that Lovecraft was so good at tapping into. But how, exactly? Well...
Each person-shaped hole represents that specific character's inevitable death. We are all mortal and acutely aware of this fact. And when our time comes, they will put our body in a hole made just for us. This hole has always been there and we humans, being the sentient and self-aware creatures that we are, KNOW that it's always been there and we KNOW that there is nothing we can do to avoid it.
And yet some of us still try. There are those who attempt to cover up their holes with banal concepts like "organized religion" and "true love", but at the end of the day, it's all just a bunch of rocks some well intention'ed douche bag piled in front of our true destiny. Nothing can keep us from going into that hole. It was made for us.
::DROPS MICROPHONE::