Grenades are useless versus units in buildings. Absolutely useless. No delay in leaving/complete immunity to all damage while leaving = useless grenades.
It makes countering a heavy bolter in a building simply impossible for many races.
This. This times a thousand. As soon as you're about to toss a grenade all they need to do is hit evacuate and they take no damage. Then they just pop right back in.
It completely negates the point of having grenades do damage against targets in buildings. They can hit evacuate even as the timer's ticking down, and still take no damage from the blast.
Also, it's good to see you are still around Croak and you're not easily scared off. You have balls of steel you do.
To be fair, I think it's also partly because Goomba's been temp-banned, so I think the thread's become a lot more reasonable now without his constant angst and whining.
I mean, I was wondering why nobody raised any complaints about how "inaccurate" a rendition of the 40K universe the trailer showed for any of a dozen piffly reasons, or to make spiteful comments about too little too late or just how crap the game is in general.
Then I realised, "Crap, Goomba's not here, that's why!"
DoW2 is really really close to being a very awesome game. I hope the expansion pushes it over the edge.
And out the other side? :P
I think the MP balance has been coming together, but once the expansion pack comes, balance is going to be thrown out of whack all over again.
The new side will either be under or overpowered, and meanwhile each of the other four sides will be getting new units. That's going to take a while to balance in itself.
I can't really say the expansion packs to DoW1 did much to improve gameplay balance. By the end, it's not like the nine sides were balanced with each other so much as competing with each other over cheesy exploits.
Grenades are useless versus units in buildings. Absolutely useless. No delay in leaving/complete immunity to all damage while leaving = useless grenades.
It makes countering a heavy bolter in a building simply impossible for many races.
This. This times a thousand. As soon as you're about to toss a grenade all they need to do is hit evacuate and they take no damage. Then they just pop right back in.
It completely negates the point of having grenades do damage against targets in buildings. They can hit evacuate even as the timer's ticking down, and still take no damage from the blast.
Man I hope they fix that soon.
Agreed, if it takes 1.5 to 3 seconds for a setup team in the open, it should take double that when using a building. Since the building makes them immune to melee and knockback counters its only fair it makes them more vulnerable to grenade counters.
You know, I was playing Last Stand earlier today and I saw a farseer acting weird. Rather than attack the enemies (wave 1), she stuck herself in a corner over where the walls go up and down, dropped a cloak, and stood there. I wasn't sure what was going on, but then the wall went up, and pushed her out of the mission boundaries. She proceeded to spend the next 14 waves running around in the 'ruins' in the background of the level, chucking Eldritch storms periodically, until a lucky Ork Rokkit Boy blasted her back in bounds. Enemies would shoot her, but obviously they couldn't approach.
Try as I might, I can't seem to duplicate what happened, though. I've no idea how she did it. It'd be hilarious to get a plasma cannon back there.
Considering they haven't given the FC a hammer/shield yet
This might just be because that would be confusing though, his two-handed hammer is already called a Thunder Hammer and he has a Chainsword/Storm Shield combo wargear option also. Plus right now he has the most total wargear options by far, giving him thunder hammer/shield terminator option might have seemed even more excessive.
Akira on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Space Marines come prepared for any situation Akira
Considering they haven't given the FC a hammer/shield yet
This might just be because that would be confusing though, his two-handed hammer is already called a Thunder Hammer and he has a Chainsword/Storm Shield combo wargear option also. Plus right now he has the most total wargear options by far, giving him thunder hammer/shield terminator option might have seemed even more excessive.
Thats why he needs the lightning claws! New and still fills the melee gap in the fc term armor.
randombattle on
I never asked for this!
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Triple Fast Tech to FC Terminator Armor is the best
Something that popped in my head while I was on GR.org's CoH channel.
When DoW2 first came out they were promising much more frequent patching cycles.
How did that pan out? (Seriously, haven't checked in on this game in forever).
I think that dow2 has seen quite a lot of patching for a game in the genre. Personally I think they are doing a pretty decent job in making every patch a step forward even though I don't agree with every change in totally they are pretty good.
I was very surprised and pleased with 1.9. It's pretty much the best patch to date when it comes to addressing bad problems quickly in a small and quick dose.
Rangers were brought in line and several bugs were fixed. Good stuff. IT was only like two weeks-ish after 1.8? That's pretty fast.
There have be large stagnations in patching however that did not quite live up to the promises if you ask me. The 1.3->1.5 gap was the greatest offender. I cannot recall if 1.4 was a beta thing only honestly.
To be fair though 1.5 completely transformed the game with the lengthening of tier 1 and the reworking of squad purposes. It had profound effects on the tech trees of almost everyone. It's understandable that it took quite a good deal of time to work out.
What's good about the patching is that it has been taking deliberate strides to set purposes for units and make those units viable. Rangers completely lacked a purpose in the 1.3 days. They were a worse version of a suppression platform (or better?). Now they have a function as a heavy weapon team counter. One of the best ones possible because they work on weapons in buildings too, unlike most jump troops. They have the knockdown and heavy weapon assassination skills that assault marines have with a sniper spin on it. They are the eldar "jump troop". Likewise, the loota, HB, shuri plat and barbed strangler have been closely balanced to be similar. Stikkbombas, plasma cannons, d-cannons and zoanthropes fulfill similar roles.
Units are gaining clearer and clearer battlefield roles while still keeping some distinct flavor/utility. That's good. It makes me believe that when chaos rising comes out that things will be relatively balanced. Hopefully the same sort of layout will be applied to their units. Hopefully there will not need to be another "1.5" patch.
Units are gaining clearer and clearer battlefield roles while still keeping some distinct flavor/utility. That's good. It makes me believe that when chaos rising comes out that things will be relatively balanced. Hopefully the same sort of layout will be applied to their units. Hopefully there will not need to be another "1.5" patch.
Man I really want to believe that they'll be able to hold onto the balance once Chaos Rising hits, but adding in a whole new side plus new units on each side (and new commanders?) seems like something you need out in the open for while before all the major and minor wrinkles can be sorted out. That said, I doubt they'll need another mega update like 1.5 was.
I will admit that I was surprised at the speed of hotfix 1.9. The games I've been playing lately have been a lot more fun.
Right now I'm trying to experiment with ASM blind grenades, which is something I've rarely used before. I could certainly see it coming into play against Guardian spam. Anyone have much success using them?
subedii on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Making the races' units more alike is not a good thing.
Homogenized races = less faction diversity => less gameplay depth => boring shit
"Durr we can't make lootas an stickbombs work in their tier lets just change their tiers and make them counterparts to the units everyone else gets" see: carnifex, venom broods, screamer killers
Thankfully Stikkbombs at least are different enough to where the change doesn't anger me but its quite funny how Lootas get free infiltrate for the same price other races just get the regular very visible dumb HWT.
But now that things are more balanced I wonder if Relic is ever going to get to fixing things like grenades and spore mines not working on at all on some buildings and make it so you can finally grenade a building without the guy just getting out and back in without taking damage. Even throwing at the building entrance has stopped working.
I also wonder if it will ever be possible for SM mirrors to evolve from ASM spamfests into something playable. I'd really like it if the MU didn't suck.
But really, good job Relic after all this time the game is closely resembling something well made. Now all you have to do is sort out the remaining bugs and make it so choosing different factions actually means something and you're all set.
Right now I'm trying to experiment with ASM blind grenades, which is something I've rarely used before. I could certainly see it coming into play against Guardian spam. Anyone have much success using them?
ASM blind grenades just work on buildings, mate.
Though ASM + Tac backup are the theoretical counters to GU spam.
Riddox on
Gamertag: Ridley 8
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Screamer-Killers are a bit different than most Tier 3 tanks since, you know, they're walking suppression assholes.
I really think you're complaining just to complain now.
SKs are the Nid T3 tanks and they are the units that are supposed to be competing with Predators, Looteds, etc. If you want to keep them with the BS and lose to tanks then the Nid is fully welcome to be an idiot.
Riddox on
Gamertag: Ridley 8
0
Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
But that's why you have a billion other antivehicle options.
But if you're a nids player how can I talk to you seriously.
Lulz, I'm not a Nid player, but that's alright since you don't have an argument.
Nids have exactly the same antivehicle options as all the other races now. You've got a heavy melee unit (AGWB - like Banshees), a snare unit (Zoey - Like Spiders, ASM) and the primary AV (Venom Brood - Tankbustas). +Heroes, I suppose, but they're more like a wild card.
So no, it's not a billion other antivehicle options. Not that that matters, since I wasn't complaining about Nid AV efficiency, heh.
Except Venom Brood is much more accurate and damaging than Tankbustas, almost like a Brightlance Platform, but no setup time. They also give off synapse to the recently buffed then buffed again Termagaunt squad.
Also, you missed the AG-Horm to go with the AGWB for extra synapse synergy. Especially since the Horms can outrun most vehicles.
And I dont know why Nid players seem to want to use the Fex as a tank, its meant to charge through the enemy front lines and have the broods and gaunts follow in its wake.
Tankbustas can 1-hit KO vehicles. And yeah, Venom Broods are stupid, which is pretty obviously because Relic intends them to be "cheap AV" except that, because of obvious reasons, Warriors can't be cheap. Venom Broods is Relic trying to make a ball go into a square shaped hole. I'm not saying Nid AV is lacking, maybe I should underline it.
Horm with AGWB synergy is less cost effective than AGWB spam and you can go ask high level Nid players about it. There is no awesome synapse synergy.
What you're saying about the Fex is true... about the Thornback Fex. The SK does not "break lines" because its too slow, expensive and valuable to do so. When I say "tank", I don't mean it as in "take a thousand missiles of everything". I mean "tank" as in "powerful T3 ranged vehicle".
Posts
They are so huge, they go CLANK as he walks.
MWO: Adamski
This. This times a thousand. As soon as you're about to toss a grenade all they need to do is hit evacuate and they take no damage. Then they just pop right back in.
It completely negates the point of having grenades do damage against targets in buildings. They can hit evacuate even as the timer's ticking down, and still take no damage from the blast.
Man I hope they fix that soon.
To be fair, I think it's also partly because Goomba's been temp-banned, so I think the thread's become a lot more reasonable now without his constant angst and whining.
I mean, I was wondering why nobody raised any complaints about how "inaccurate" a rendition of the 40K universe the trailer showed for any of a dozen piffly reasons, or to make spiteful comments about too little too late or just how crap the game is in general.
Then I realised, "Crap, Goomba's not here, that's why!"
When in doubt, throw more wraithlords at it.
Twin linked preds are neat, though.
And out the other side? :P
I think the MP balance has been coming together, but once the expansion pack comes, balance is going to be thrown out of whack all over again.
The new side will either be under or overpowered, and meanwhile each of the other four sides will be getting new units. That's going to take a while to balance in itself.
I can't really say the expansion packs to DoW1 did much to improve gameplay balance. By the end, it's not like the nine sides were balanced with each other so much as competing with each other over cheesy exploits.
Agreed, if it takes 1.5 to 3 seconds for a setup team in the open, it should take double that when using a building. Since the building makes them immune to melee and knockback counters its only fair it makes them more vulnerable to grenade counters.
MWO: Adamski
DON'T DO IT!
Still, I want to see someone using lightning claws in the multiplayer, even if it's one of the commanders.
Try as I might, I can't seem to duplicate what happened, though. I've no idea how she did it. It'd be hilarious to get a plasma cannon back there.
This might just be because that would be confusing though, his two-handed hammer is already called a Thunder Hammer and he has a Chainsword/Storm Shield combo wargear option also. Plus right now he has the most total wargear options by far, giving him thunder hammer/shield terminator option might have seemed even more excessive.
Thats why he needs the lightning claws! New and still fills the melee gap in the fc term armor.
I never asked for this!
Burn em' out!
Cleansing Flame is the best flame.
When DoW2 first came out they were promising much more frequent patching cycles.
How did that pan out? (Seriously, haven't checked in on this game in forever).
I think that dow2 has seen quite a lot of patching for a game in the genre. Personally I think they are doing a pretty decent job in making every patch a step forward even though I don't agree with every change in totally they are pretty good.
I never asked for this!
Rangers were brought in line and several bugs were fixed. Good stuff. IT was only like two weeks-ish after 1.8? That's pretty fast.
There have be large stagnations in patching however that did not quite live up to the promises if you ask me. The 1.3->1.5 gap was the greatest offender. I cannot recall if 1.4 was a beta thing only honestly.
To be fair though 1.5 completely transformed the game with the lengthening of tier 1 and the reworking of squad purposes. It had profound effects on the tech trees of almost everyone. It's understandable that it took quite a good deal of time to work out.
What's good about the patching is that it has been taking deliberate strides to set purposes for units and make those units viable. Rangers completely lacked a purpose in the 1.3 days. They were a worse version of a suppression platform (or better?). Now they have a function as a heavy weapon team counter. One of the best ones possible because they work on weapons in buildings too, unlike most jump troops. They have the knockdown and heavy weapon assassination skills that assault marines have with a sniper spin on it. They are the eldar "jump troop". Likewise, the loota, HB, shuri plat and barbed strangler have been closely balanced to be similar. Stikkbombas, plasma cannons, d-cannons and zoanthropes fulfill similar roles.
Units are gaining clearer and clearer battlefield roles while still keeping some distinct flavor/utility. That's good. It makes me believe that when chaos rising comes out that things will be relatively balanced. Hopefully the same sort of layout will be applied to their units. Hopefully there will not need to be another "1.5" patch.
Man I really want to believe that they'll be able to hold onto the balance once Chaos Rising hits, but adding in a whole new side plus new units on each side (and new commanders?) seems like something you need out in the open for while before all the major and minor wrinkles can be sorted out. That said, I doubt they'll need another mega update like 1.5 was.
I will admit that I was surprised at the speed of hotfix 1.9. The games I've been playing lately have been a lot more fun.
Right now I'm trying to experiment with ASM blind grenades, which is something I've rarely used before. I could certainly see it coming into play against Guardian spam. Anyone have much success using them?
Balance was crap, refined, almost perfect
Winter assault hits.
Balance was crap, refined, almost perfect
Dark Crusade hits
Balance was crap, refined, almost perfect
Soulstorm Hits
Everything goes to shit.
Homogenized races = less faction diversity => less gameplay depth => boring shit
"Durr we can't make lootas an stickbombs work in their tier lets just change their tiers and make them counterparts to the units everyone else gets" see: carnifex, venom broods, screamer killers
Thankfully Stikkbombs at least are different enough to where the change doesn't anger me but its quite funny how Lootas get free infiltrate for the same price other races just get the regular very visible dumb HWT.
But now that things are more balanced I wonder if Relic is ever going to get to fixing things like grenades and spore mines not working on at all on some buildings and make it so you can finally grenade a building without the guy just getting out and back in without taking damage. Even throwing at the building entrance has stopped working.
I also wonder if it will ever be possible for SM mirrors to evolve from ASM spamfests into something playable. I'd really like it if the MU didn't suck.
But really, good job Relic after all this time the game is closely resembling something well made. Now all you have to do is sort out the remaining bugs and make it so choosing different factions actually means something and you're all set.
ASM blind grenades just work on buildings, mate.
Though ASM + Tac backup are the theoretical counters to GU spam.
I really think you're complaining just to complain now.
SKs are the Nid T3 tanks and they are the units that are supposed to be competing with Predators, Looteds, etc. If you want to keep them with the BS and lose to tanks then the Nid is fully welcome to be an idiot.
But if you're a nids player how can I talk to you seriously.
Nids have some fearsome AV.
Nids have exactly the same antivehicle options as all the other races now. You've got a heavy melee unit (AGWB - like Banshees), a snare unit (Zoey - Like Spiders, ASM) and the primary AV (Venom Brood - Tankbustas). +Heroes, I suppose, but they're more like a wild card.
So no, it's not a billion other antivehicle options. Not that that matters, since I wasn't complaining about Nid AV efficiency, heh.
Also, you missed the AG-Horm to go with the AGWB for extra synapse synergy. Especially since the Horms can outrun most vehicles.
And I dont know why Nid players seem to want to use the Fex as a tank, its meant to charge through the enemy front lines and have the broods and gaunts follow in its wake.
MWO: Adamski
Horm with AGWB synergy is less cost effective than AGWB spam and you can go ask high level Nid players about it. There is no awesome synapse synergy.
What you're saying about the Fex is true... about the Thornback Fex. The SK does not "break lines" because its too slow, expensive and valuable to do so. When I say "tank", I don't mean it as in "take a thousand missiles of everything". I mean "tank" as in "powerful T3 ranged vehicle".
MWO: Adamski