Tankbustas are easily the best AV unit now, between their low cost, high AV damage and hugely overpowered barrage ability.
My main issue with Tankbusta's is that they have a fairly good chance of disrupting infantry, which can make them a pain to take out when your squads are constantly getting juggled so his team mate can get the damage in.
I don't mind Barrage so much, if you see Tankbusta's your tank should be moving anyway. The actual AoE on the strike itself is relatively small, so it can be very difficult to hit a moving target with it.
Although it does do a nasty job of disrupting emplacements, especially given the long range on the ability, which takes us nicely back to my main issue with them.
subedii on
0
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Can someone give me a quick run down of Eldar early game in 1.9? I'm gonna try and play a few multi-player matches this afternoon (haven't played this in a very long time), and I wanted to at least have an idea of a decent build order so it's somewhat less embarrassing to get my face raped.
Can someone give me a quick run down of Eldar early game in 1.9? I'm gonna try and play a few multi-player matches this afternoon (haven't played this in a very long time), and I wanted to at least have an idea of a decent build order so it's somewhat less embarrassing to get my face raped.
Build Guardians. Build more Guardians. Maybe push out a Ranger squad or a Shuriken cannon team depending on who you're playing against (Shuriken for masses of melee units generally, Ranger's good to have in pretty much any game). If you're only playing against SM, Banshee's might be better for your first pick, but as it stands, 3-4 squads of Guardians is a very powerful thing, especially when they're upgraded with grenades.
Once I hit T2 I prefer to go with Warp Spiders or Falcon. WS since they have relatively firepower and can disable vehicles when upgraded. The wraithlord actually makes for decent mobile AV if you get the Brightlance upgrade, but is extremely costly for energy, and will set you back in the tech race to T3. And you want T3 for the Fire Prisms and D-cannon.
subedii on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Homogenized races = less faction diversity => less gameplay depth => boring shit
I totally agree with you here. However, I don't think it's gotten that bad. Zoanthropes are still very different from plasma cannons, and even more different from Stikkbombas. Lootaz and heavy bolters are pretty similar perhaps (down to the DPS if I am not mistaken) but infiltrate/beamy deffgun and improved targeters make considerable differences. The units are used in different manners. Orks do not use lootas to cover their forces, save for some pretty excessive shoota spam. They use them to ambush, to help melee get into close combat, and to cover units for gen bashing. That's what I use mine for at least. Heavy bolters are more or less constantly moving behind SM force, acting as the ultimate anti-melee counter, solidifying a ranged advantage if need be.
Can someone give me a quick run down of Eldar early game in 1.9? I'm gonna try and play a few multi-player matches this afternoon (haven't played this in a very long time), and I wanted to at least have an idea of a decent build order so it's somewhat less embarrassing to get my face raped.
Well, the popular build is triple guardian. Any hero can work for this strategy, some slightly better than others. If you should get battle equipment largely amounts to your ability and what you are fighting. Do you trust your skills with grenades? Do you need fleet to kite the enemy? Are you pushing your opponent to areas where you could use plasma shields? If don't feel like you can use the stuff effectively, save the power.
Don't be afraid to retreat. Reinforcing is much more economical than rebuilding. Also, you need to get experience on your troops. They can't go dying. Retreat en-mass if possible. It will protect you from getting cut down by melee. If you retreat en-mass pursuing melee units will often get confused by the other squads while trying to cut down one of your weaker ones.
If the enemy attempts to counter your guardians with suppression weapons, get a ranger squad.
If the enemy attmepts to counter your guardians with melee, get a shuriken platform. Exception: ASM. Get banshees.
Tech quickly. Put on pressure to the enemy power. Guardians are some of the best power harassers thanks to their high firepower, low cost and mobility. Get to the power with all three squads, then focus on the outer generators, one by one. You might not get to finish off the main node. That's okay. If you can, set up plasma shields that point in the enemy's direction. If they are an SM or other eldar these shields might buy you the time to finish off their power while they plink away. You might even be able to turn and kill them.
Get to tier two quickly. If you think you've got a bit of a lead on his teching, grab warlocks for all guardians. Now your force is really fucking scary. Embolden if you catch something weak in the open. It will fucking melt.
Build a falcon. The falcon is a reliable unit. It does poor AV damage, but it's AI damage is pretty nice. The nice thing about it is that there are very few things that can kill it reliably if you keep it moving and kiting. All walkers are cake, just make sure your forces keep their distance while you weaken them up. Beware of tankbustas, who can kill your falcon with a busta' barrage in one shot. If you hear missiles firing, move the falcon! Be particularly aware if the opponent is playing Kommando. He'll definitely scout your position then fire long range missiles to attempt to OH-OK.
Warp spiders make a good addition now. More firepower, and more vehicle control. Move to tier 3 quickly, however.
Once in tier three you need to make a choice. If you've lost your power generation or you're fighting nids/orks with plenty of infantry, consider the D-cannon. A well placed singularity can end games. If you're playing SM/Eldar, consider the Fire Prism. You'll probably want one of each sooner or later. The fire prism is the best AV eldar have.
Hero wargear: here's some good wargear for this strategy:
Farseer; Ghosthelm: mind war will keep pesky melee units/heroes off your guardian blob.
Doomblade: anything to make a target fall faster against your ranged destruction.
Gravity blade: perfect against anyone who is blobbing. Run in and distable his forces. He'll have to retreat or take massive casualties to ranged fire.
Time armor: The ultimate control. Disable entire armies while you crush them from a far.
Warlock; Witchblade of Kuronos: If you tech up to tier 2 and the enemy has a buncha melee, this can come before a falcon. Use it like the gravity blade. Run into (or let them run at your guardians), hit the button and watch them explode. The ultimate melee killer, this can destroy 3 slugga squads in one sweep.
Warp throw: A nifty piece of wargear that can keep opponents off your troops, or throw them into your grenades. Good for keeping the enemy AV retreating/not firing on your tanks!
Psychic Sheild Armor: The warlock is going to be your only melee in most cases. He'll need this durability.
WSE; Heavy Gauge Fillament: Apoth's got nothing on this. Between three guardians and this you can kill any hero in seconds flat. It can be useful for disrupting other dangerous weapons, like barbed stranglers as well.
Phase Armor: Good for keeping dangerous things out of the fight. See a carnifex you can't deal with? Phase it and kill what's left while you can. Later, you can use this armor to set up singularities for massive damage.
Improved Targeters: A good combo with filliament.
tl;dr: guardians guardians guardians -> power -> tier 1.5 unit -> tier 2 -> warlocks -> falcon -> warpspiders -> artillery. mix in war gear as needs demand.
As a space marine player I can say that you really want more banshees against anything they have. Especially early game a single squad of banshees can rape anything the marines can field until the power starts coming.
I would recommend getting a banshee squad and pushing back to take out the sm power generators at the very start of the game. Marines are probably the most dependent on power now so any eldar with a brain should be trying to strike at them where it counts.
Also this goes with out saying but it is very helpful when fighting marines, definitely try to kill any squad members you can. They are quite expensive and it can take a bit to get a squad up to full power if they have been wiped out.
As a space marine player I can say that you really want more banshees against anything they have. Especially early game a single squad of banshees can rape anything the marines can field until the power starts coming.
I would recommend getting a banshee squad and pushing back to take out the sm power generators at the very start of the game. Marines are probably the most dependent on power now so any eldar with a brain should be trying to strike at them where it counts.
Also this goes with out saying but it is very helpful when fighting marines, definitely try to kill any squad members you can. They are quite expensive and it can take a bit to get a squad up to full power if they have been wiped out.
Always aim for scouts first. Either the scouts or the commander. Two losses and they'll be forced to flee, and Scouts aren't that durable. If you're using Banshee's then send those instead against the Tac marines, and focus your guardians on the scouts. Ve wary however if they're using over-extending their commander, you might be better off targeting him first and forcing him to flee. It varies.
That said, I disagree that the single Banshee squad can take on anything the SM do. They need to focus on the Banshee squad, but it will go down or be forced to flee. After the scouts get their shotguns (which if not before the first encounter, is almost always during it), sending a single Banshee squad in against those tacs is pretty much sending them to their deaths.
Two banshee squads are a bit more complicated, but there are other tactics to handle them by that stage.
As a space marine player I can say that you really want more banshees against anything they have. Especially early game a single squad of banshees can rape anything the marines can field until the power starts coming.
I would recommend getting a banshee squad and pushing back to take out the sm power generators at the very start of the game. Marines are probably the most dependent on power now so any eldar with a brain should be trying to strike at them where it counts.
Also this goes with out saying but it is very helpful when fighting marines, definitely try to kill any squad members you can. They are quite expensive and it can take a bit to get a squad up to full power if they have been wiped out.
Always aim for scouts first. Either the scouts or the commander. Two losses and they'll be forced to flee, and Scouts aren't that durable. If you're using Banshee's then send those instead against the Tac marines, and focus your guardians on the scouts. Ve wary however if they're using over-extending their commander, you might be better off targeting him first and forcing him to flee. It varies.
That said, I disagree that the single Banshee squad can take on anything the SM do. They need to focus on the Banshee squad, but it will go down or be forced to flee. After the scouts get their shotguns (which if not before the first encounter, is almost always during it), sending a single Banshee squad in against those tacs is pretty much sending them to their deaths.
Two banshee squads are a bit more complicated, but there are other tactics to handle them by that stage.
Always aim for the scouts period. Every commander will live longer and sustained fire will kill a member of the scouts before even the apoth can heal them.
The banshee squad can kill anything the marines can field if you build it first. A tac squad and a scout squad cannot withstand eldar when they have a banshee squad.
Always aim for the scouts period. Every commander will live longer and sustained fire will kill a member of the scouts before even the apoth can heal them.
The banshee squad can kill anything the marines can field if you build it first. A tac squad and a scout squad cannot withstand eldar when they have a banshee squad.
The commander is a judgement call, like I said it varies. Most of the time it is better to aim for the scouts. With the Banshees though I definitely disagree.
Just keep your units out of range of the Banshees whilst the other squad / your commander attacks them. They won't have FoF so they won't be able to run you down and suppress you, and if they do, then you should've already gotten shotguns on your scouts, at which point it's a non-issue. Whether they charge the scouts or the Tacs, shotgun blast + combined fire makes short work of them. Banshee's hit hard, but they're glass cannons. The main thing is to keep your distance and engage from range, keeping your scouts well away from the enemy Guardians (preferably behind your Tacs). If he wants to use his Banshee's against you, he has to advance towards you. And he has to do it fast because if he's not sending his Banshee's against your squads immediately, then they're taking fire all that time.
Heck, I've taken on Single Banshee squads with two Tac squads in later game. Tac marines have melee resistance aura which gives them some decent survivability when mixing it up against a melee squad, and you have your other squad fire on the Banshee's whilst you keep the first squad on the move. If they hit FoF and suppress your squad, then they've still got a decent chance at survival depending on how much damage you've done before they did that.
Just doing my small part to spread the word of the Emprah.
I was quite thrilled that the latest preview showed some more of the flash style art from DOW2. Sure, it doesn't match full CG as far as detail is concerned, but stylistically it just seems right. Especially for all the crazy Gothic architecture.
And yeah, I ordered Soulstorm a few days ago. I can't believe I'm so excited to grind through a sub par expansion, but the game is so infamous I feel like I'm missing out by not playing it.
Imperial Guard, all the way.
manwiththemachinegun on
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Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
Ooh, I loved those '2D' style cutscenes in DoWII, if anything I found them better than than the full 3D ones.
Thanks Croak, that's high praise coming from a developer. :whistle:
You catch on pretty quick with the titles too. :P The song seemed suitably grimdark without crossing into self cutting. I mean, what kind of Marine would do that?
Croak, do all the new missions in the expansion take place on a unique map, or will we be visiting the same map from a different angle during the new campaign? I'm not including areas from the original campaign showing up here.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
There's some revisiting of a couple of the maps, but it's contextual, and takes you to different areas. Plus, they're pretty big maps, and the timespan between visiting them again is pretty wide.
We're also revisting some of the original campaign's locations, but also making contextual sense, and the maps have been reworked a bit (more than just camera angle changes).
Finally, every single one of the fifteen missions in the new campaign are hand scripted, no more generic assassinate or defend missions. They're also longer on average than the original campaign, so actual playtime on the main storyline is close to the same, give or take.
Croak on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
So apparently Ursarkar E. Creed is like, the most badass Imperial General ever to grace the universe. He can also disguise a 100m tall titan as a shrubbery. Are there any books or anything that feature his exploits?
manwiththemachinegun on
0
Halos Nach TariffCan you blame me?I'm too famous.Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
If there is anything I'm guessing it's only going to be in Imperial Guard codexes. When he appears as a special character there's probably half a page or so of description. But I can't remember any actual books written with him as the protagonist. of course my knowledge of such matters is hardly encyclopedic...
Halos Nach Tariff on
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
Posts
The VC is pretty crappy though, SK really is an infantry killer (a great one).
My main issue with Tankbusta's is that they have a fairly good chance of disrupting infantry, which can make them a pain to take out when your squads are constantly getting juggled so his team mate can get the damage in.
I don't mind Barrage so much, if you see Tankbusta's your tank should be moving anyway. The actual AoE on the strike itself is relatively small, so it can be very difficult to hit a moving target with it.
Although it does do a nasty job of disrupting emplacements, especially given the long range on the ability, which takes us nicely back to my main issue with them.
Build Guardians. Build more Guardians. Maybe push out a Ranger squad or a Shuriken cannon team depending on who you're playing against (Shuriken for masses of melee units generally, Ranger's good to have in pretty much any game). If you're only playing against SM, Banshee's might be better for your first pick, but as it stands, 3-4 squads of Guardians is a very powerful thing, especially when they're upgraded with grenades.
Once I hit T2 I prefer to go with Warp Spiders or Falcon. WS since they have relatively firepower and can disable vehicles when upgraded. The wraithlord actually makes for decent mobile AV if you get the Brightlance upgrade, but is extremely costly for energy, and will set you back in the tech race to T3. And you want T3 for the Fire Prisms and D-cannon.
I totally agree with you here. However, I don't think it's gotten that bad. Zoanthropes are still very different from plasma cannons, and even more different from Stikkbombas. Lootaz and heavy bolters are pretty similar perhaps (down to the DPS if I am not mistaken) but infiltrate/beamy deffgun and improved targeters make considerable differences. The units are used in different manners. Orks do not use lootas to cover their forces, save for some pretty excessive shoota spam. They use them to ambush, to help melee get into close combat, and to cover units for gen bashing. That's what I use mine for at least. Heavy bolters are more or less constantly moving behind SM force, acting as the ultimate anti-melee counter, solidifying a ranged advantage if need be.
Well, the popular build is triple guardian. Any hero can work for this strategy, some slightly better than others. If you should get battle equipment largely amounts to your ability and what you are fighting. Do you trust your skills with grenades? Do you need fleet to kite the enemy? Are you pushing your opponent to areas where you could use plasma shields? If don't feel like you can use the stuff effectively, save the power.
Don't be afraid to retreat. Reinforcing is much more economical than rebuilding. Also, you need to get experience on your troops. They can't go dying. Retreat en-mass if possible. It will protect you from getting cut down by melee. If you retreat en-mass pursuing melee units will often get confused by the other squads while trying to cut down one of your weaker ones.
If the enemy attempts to counter your guardians with suppression weapons, get a ranger squad.
If the enemy attmepts to counter your guardians with melee, get a shuriken platform. Exception: ASM. Get banshees.
Tech quickly. Put on pressure to the enemy power. Guardians are some of the best power harassers thanks to their high firepower, low cost and mobility. Get to the power with all three squads, then focus on the outer generators, one by one. You might not get to finish off the main node. That's okay. If you can, set up plasma shields that point in the enemy's direction. If they are an SM or other eldar these shields might buy you the time to finish off their power while they plink away. You might even be able to turn and kill them.
Get to tier two quickly. If you think you've got a bit of a lead on his teching, grab warlocks for all guardians. Now your force is really fucking scary. Embolden if you catch something weak in the open. It will fucking melt.
Build a falcon. The falcon is a reliable unit. It does poor AV damage, but it's AI damage is pretty nice. The nice thing about it is that there are very few things that can kill it reliably if you keep it moving and kiting. All walkers are cake, just make sure your forces keep their distance while you weaken them up. Beware of tankbustas, who can kill your falcon with a busta' barrage in one shot. If you hear missiles firing, move the falcon! Be particularly aware if the opponent is playing Kommando. He'll definitely scout your position then fire long range missiles to attempt to OH-OK.
Warp spiders make a good addition now. More firepower, and more vehicle control. Move to tier 3 quickly, however.
Once in tier three you need to make a choice. If you've lost your power generation or you're fighting nids/orks with plenty of infantry, consider the D-cannon. A well placed singularity can end games. If you're playing SM/Eldar, consider the Fire Prism. You'll probably want one of each sooner or later. The fire prism is the best AV eldar have.
Hero wargear: here's some good wargear for this strategy:
Farseer; Ghosthelm: mind war will keep pesky melee units/heroes off your guardian blob.
Doomblade: anything to make a target fall faster against your ranged destruction.
Gravity blade: perfect against anyone who is blobbing. Run in and distable his forces. He'll have to retreat or take massive casualties to ranged fire.
Time armor: The ultimate control. Disable entire armies while you crush them from a far.
Warlock; Witchblade of Kuronos: If you tech up to tier 2 and the enemy has a buncha melee, this can come before a falcon. Use it like the gravity blade. Run into (or let them run at your guardians), hit the button and watch them explode. The ultimate melee killer, this can destroy 3 slugga squads in one sweep.
Warp throw: A nifty piece of wargear that can keep opponents off your troops, or throw them into your grenades. Good for keeping the enemy AV retreating/not firing on your tanks!
Psychic Sheild Armor: The warlock is going to be your only melee in most cases. He'll need this durability.
WSE; Heavy Gauge Fillament: Apoth's got nothing on this. Between three guardians and this you can kill any hero in seconds flat. It can be useful for disrupting other dangerous weapons, like barbed stranglers as well.
Phase Armor: Good for keeping dangerous things out of the fight. See a carnifex you can't deal with? Phase it and kill what's left while you can. Later, you can use this armor to set up singularities for massive damage.
Improved Targeters: A good combo with filliament.
tl;dr: guardians guardians guardians -> power -> tier 1.5 unit -> tier 2 -> warlocks -> falcon -> warpspiders -> artillery. mix in war gear as needs demand.
edit:
Oh.
I would recommend getting a banshee squad and pushing back to take out the sm power generators at the very start of the game. Marines are probably the most dependent on power now so any eldar with a brain should be trying to strike at them where it counts.
Also this goes with out saying but it is very helpful when fighting marines, definitely try to kill any squad members you can. They are quite expensive and it can take a bit to get a squad up to full power if they have been wiped out.
I never asked for this!
Always aim for scouts first. Either the scouts or the commander. Two losses and they'll be forced to flee, and Scouts aren't that durable. If you're using Banshee's then send those instead against the Tac marines, and focus your guardians on the scouts. Ve wary however if they're using over-extending their commander, you might be better off targeting him first and forcing him to flee. It varies.
That said, I disagree that the single Banshee squad can take on anything the SM do. They need to focus on the Banshee squad, but it will go down or be forced to flee. After the scouts get their shotguns (which if not before the first encounter, is almost always during it), sending a single Banshee squad in against those tacs is pretty much sending them to their deaths.
Two banshee squads are a bit more complicated, but there are other tactics to handle them by that stage.
This one is just popular and easy to learn.
Yeah but this time it's because Guardians are so OP and not because they're the only not completely terrible unit.
Always aim for the scouts period. Every commander will live longer and sustained fire will kill a member of the scouts before even the apoth can heal them.
The banshee squad can kill anything the marines can field if you build it first. A tac squad and a scout squad cannot withstand eldar when they have a banshee squad.
I never asked for this!
The commander is a judgement call, like I said it varies. Most of the time it is better to aim for the scouts. With the Banshees though I definitely disagree.
Just keep your units out of range of the Banshees whilst the other squad / your commander attacks them. They won't have FoF so they won't be able to run you down and suppress you, and if they do, then you should've already gotten shotguns on your scouts, at which point it's a non-issue. Whether they charge the scouts or the Tacs, shotgun blast + combined fire makes short work of them. Banshee's hit hard, but they're glass cannons. The main thing is to keep your distance and engage from range, keeping your scouts well away from the enemy Guardians (preferably behind your Tacs). If he wants to use his Banshee's against you, he has to advance towards you. And he has to do it fast because if he's not sending his Banshee's against your squads immediately, then they're taking fire all that time.
Heck, I've taken on Single Banshee squads with two Tac squads in later game. Tac marines have melee resistance aura which gives them some decent survivability when mixing it up against a melee squad, and you have your other squad fire on the Banshee's whilst you keep the first squad on the move. If they hit FoF and suppress your squad, then they've still got a decent chance at survival depending on how much damage you've done before they did that.
If nothing else, I had a lot of fun making it. When a game contending for supreme manliness comes along, it must earn my respect. 40k definitely did.
That is exactly what it does.
Just about everything Subedii said is wrong.
Fleet has absolutely no defensive benefit. I mean, other than escaping melee maybe.
edit: if banshees took .2x ranged damage while fleeting they would have more health than a nob squad. Effectively.
How did that happen?
https://medium.com/@alascii
Cool stuff, but I do have one suggestion on the choice of music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xwqatbfXjo
What the heck is that from? It's like an ear worm now.
I first tried to fit Frank Sinatra - I Get a Kick out of You to it, but this worked far better.
Wow, thats really good. Nice job!
MWO: Adamski
I was quite thrilled that the latest preview showed some more of the flash style art from DOW2. Sure, it doesn't match full CG as far as detail is concerned, but stylistically it just seems right. Especially for all the crazy Gothic architecture.
And yeah, I ordered Soulstorm a few days ago. I can't believe I'm so excited to grind through a sub par expansion, but the game is so infamous I feel like I'm missing out by not playing it.
Imperial Guard, all the way.
Nicely edited. That's from the XenoPhobia album, right? The Unknown Marine?
You catch on pretty quick with the titles too. :P The song seemed suitably grimdark without crossing into self cutting. I mean, what kind of Marine would do that?
We're also revisting some of the original campaign's locations, but also making contextual sense, and the maps have been reworked a bit (more than just camera angle changes).
Finally, every single one of the fifteen missions in the new campaign are hand scripted, no more generic assassinate or defend missions. They're also longer on average than the original campaign, so actual playtime on the main storyline is close to the same, give or take.
Well that definitely makes it fun at least.
Count the super invincible Warlock while your at it.
http://beta.humugus.com/index.php/auth/register/inv/1966
So apparently Ursarkar E. Creed is like, the most badass Imperial General ever to grace the universe. He can also disguise a 100m tall titan as a shrubbery. Are there any books or anything that feature his exploits?
Soulstorm just arrived, I will be back with a full report later once the angrish sets in.