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Is this the golden age of Mario?
TheSonicRetard
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Registered User regular
I just finished New Super Mario Bros Wii (fantastic game, btw) and set its case on the shelf when I noticed how many excellent Mario games there have been this generation. From Mario Galaxy to the the less-warmly received, but still excellent Paper Mario, to both New Super Mario Bros games, I can't remember a time when there was so much pure platforming bliss.
I've always perceived the time between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World 2 to be the golden years of Mario. Those were the years when Nintendo seemed to have honed in on the formula for a great platformer, and had fine tuned it to perfection. After that came Mario 64, which was revolutionary and ground breaking, but was still very unrefined. I'd compare it to the original Super Mario Bros, which set the ground work for Mario 3 and Mario World. Which is exactly what Mario 64 did for Mario Galaxy, which is the 3D mario formula, perfected.
What we have today is a culmination of virtually every style of Mario - 2D and 3D - at their most perfected to date. Nintendo seems to have found that perfect formula again, and they're releasing games more aggressively now. We had to wait the entire life cycle of the Super NES to get the sequel to Mario World, and we've already had 2 2D marios this generation, and we're getting our second 3D mario.
So is this the golden era of mario? Has the NES-SNES era finally been trumped?
I've always perceived the time between Super Mario Bros 3 and Super Mario World 2 to be the golden years of Mario. Those were the years when Nintendo seemed to have honed in on the formula for a great platformer, and had fine tuned it to perfection. After that came Mario 64, which was revolutionary and ground breaking, but was still very unrefined. I'd compare it to the original Super Mario Bros, which set the ground work for Mario 3 and Mario World. Which is exactly what Mario 64 did for Mario Galaxy, which is the 3D mario formula, perfected.
What we have today is a culmination of virtually every style of Mario - 2D and 3D - at their most perfected to date. Nintendo seems to have found that perfect formula again, and they're releasing games more aggressively now. We had to wait the entire life cycle of the Super NES to get the sequel to Mario World, and we've already had 2 2D marios this generation, and we're getting our second 3D mario.
So is this the golden era of mario? Has the NES-SNES era finally been trumped?
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Do you include only "Mario platformers," or the RPGs, or Mario Kart, or Mario Party?
Is it fair to say that quality 3D Mario games means this is a better time than the NES era, when it wasn't even possible back then?
Would you have enjoyed these modern games the same way as a kid that you do now? Are we giving Nintendo this Golden Age award on the basis that their games are better than they used to be, or on the basis that they have kept up with the perfect progression for how Mario games should evolve?
You said you just shelved it. Do you knock off some points because it didn't last as long as the classic games did back in the day?
You just lost Nintendo a sale, man.
We could arguably say both. I'm almost certain that nintendo's presence right now has never been higher, and I'd argue that the games have never been more fun, which isn't necessarily saying these games are more fun than the NES/SNES titles. But there are more of them.
I'm speaking strictly of mario hop-n-bop platformers.
Absolutely. Why knock the current generation just because the old generation couldn't keep up technologically? Most people love the NES-SNES era of mario over the Pre-NES mario for reasons that include technological.
I'd say they kept up the progression of how Mario games should evolve. The NES-SNES mario games are fantastic, and I have a hard time saying this generation's Mario is necessarily better. But I'd say the quality of the games are about as equal, and that there are more quality games now than back then.
I shelve all games as soon as I beat them, even classic ones. I'll go back to this game over and over again, though, the same way I do with Galaxy, and SPM, and the NES-SNES games.
I recieved a review copy.
I hope you're not serious on the spoiler, even. I can't imagine losing interest in something just because somebody else played it before me.
I'm not allowed to say anything specifically about the game, but I will say that no one should lose interest because I played it.
Lets just say I beat New Super Mario Bros DS in one sitting.
SMB is without a doubt the catalyst of the modern platformer. Sure Pitfall and Donkey Kong came first but neither had anything on the color, speed, and fluidity of SMB.
SMB3 is quite possibly the finest video game ever released and the real first blockbuster video game. It's taken the industry nearly 20 years to rival the success of this one game.
Don't get me wrong, the Wii/DS era has seen a rival of Mario's once formidable platforming perfection.
Two 2D, Two 3D in the space of five years is fantastic.
But the best period of Mario has to be the early works.
lol it's just for review reasons. I'm not under NDA or anything.
Super Mario Bros. is the one that started it all, and hugely influential.
Super Mario Bros 3 is obviously a good contender, it has my favourite world map (in terms of mechanics), and I
Super Mario World has a fantastic overall epic adventure feel to it, and quiet a few levels that you really have to think during. Love the cape.
Mario World 2 looks like it does. One of the prettiest games ever. The levels are great, and I love how replayable they are.
NSMB is fantastic, but I do wish it was a little more original.
Looking forwards to NSMB Wii, although I am a little concerned that the multiplayer focus might be detrimental to it as a single player game.
Edit:
as soon as I saw the thread title I heard in my head:
[alphacentauri]Golden Age begun[/alphacentauri]
I'd have said SMW2 instead, but I don't consider it a "Mario" game; it is in a class above and beyond. Fuck the DS remake, though.
Mario Galaxy is not Mario 64 perfected - they have drastically different philosophies behind their gameplay. Despite both being 3D, Mario Galaxy is much closer in style to Super Mario Bros. 3 than it is to Mario 64. Mario 64 (and Sunshine) were both focused more on exploration whereas SMB3 & Mario Galaxy were both more linear action-oriented games. Not saying that one approach is better than the other, but I was highly disappointed with Mario Galaxy, not because it's not a great game, but because I was expecting a more polished Mario 64 and instead I got a 3D SMB3 in space.
Super Paper Mario was just plain bad. They had a good gimmick, didn't do much with it, and threw in so much filler that it ruined the game. At least it had a few funny moments, but it's definitely the weakest of all of the Paper Mario games.
NSMB DS felt more like an expansion pack than a new game. It was fun, but it wasn't memorable like the main Mario games.
So no, I don't agree that this is the golden age of Mario. Not only do I feel the games are weaker now, but they have more competition: stuff like N+, Splosion Man, and Mirror's Edge are all more enjoyable platformers than anything we've seen Mario do recently IMO.
Personally, I'd say 1995-1996 was the golden age of Mario. SMW2: Yoshi's Island + SMRPG + Mario 64 is a tough trio to beat.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
I agree with this, I think to call anything a "golden age" is to refer to the time when all the innovation was happening; as such, it can't happen twice. You can have a "modern revival" but you're not going to have moments equal to those first ones.
That doesn't mean our current experiences are of more or less quality, just that there's something about those firsts that isn't going to occur again.
Personally I always felt the open world aspect of Mario 64 was more a product of the limitations of the N64. They originally planned for linear levels ala the Bowser levels, and more of them as well. They had to scale back their vision, and I believe they chose big, boxy levels with goals to accomplish to save both time and space on the cartridge.
Super Mario Sunshine just took Mario 64's formula and "made more." Much in the same way that SMB2 JPN is a sequel to SMB1. But Mario Galaxy really evolved Mario, much in the same way that SMB3 evolved the original SMB formula. The result is a 3D Mario that is much, much closer in style to the 2D Mario games.
Exactly. The GTA-era made linearity something of a bad word, but I think linear games are much more focused. I much prefer my Mario games linear.
In terms of being the "Golden Age", I guess I would say it is a "part 2" if you will. The NES titles will be hard to top, just because they are so different and unique, but all three very very good. With New Super Mario Wii (and the original New Super Mario DS), it seems more about the culmination of previous ideas with a few new things thrown in (I have no problem with this however). Also, with Galaxy2, we appear to be getting what I believe is a similar idea to the original Mario2 i.e. Lost Levels, is give people more galaxy but harder and more creative in level design, which is what a ton of people (including myself) wanted. Why wait another half a decade for another mario platformer to be made when they can use existing assets and make another game but with a ridiculous amount of levels? It can also be thought of like Doom2 (32 new levels, some new monsters, one new gun).
I should probably go back and play it again, now that my expectations are more realistic, and see if I like it more this time.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
I can see where you are coming from. They sorta had some levels like that, like Bee Galaxy (i think that's what it is called), but they were definitely much shorter then Sunshine/64. In reality, the levels are quite big, you just can only take certain paths depending on the star. If you think about it, they had this exactly in mind for Mario64, however, you could get stars out of order. I kinda missed being able to run around in a big world, do some exploring etc., but the level design was very strong so eventually it wasn't a big deal. For Galaxy2, I think they should try to mix it in even more. They had a few galaxies like I mentioned that you could run around more freely, but I think now that they already have most of the assets already done, they can focus a ton more on the levels. Therefore, they can have some galaxies be expansive levels ala Mario64/Sunshine, and then also have more linear pathed galaxies too. PLUS, throw in the galaxies that were like Sunshine's warp zone levels/bonus levels from other mario games, and the game will be perfect.
RainbowDespair summed up my issues with Galaxy pretty well. Weird little mini-levels. It just didn't feel big or epic like 64 did. Granted my tastes have probably changed some in the past 10 years, but I can still go back to old Mario games and have some fun, where I didn't really feel like I was having much fun in Galaxy.
I could start doing one task, get nearly done, then see something else that looks fun, go and play with it, and then end up getting a star.
If I then choose to collect that star, all of the progress I made in the first task was forgotten. It punished curiosity with repetition.
I'm not sure why people hated the water gun so much, I think most people that hated it either: only played to get a few stars or never played and watched some choice videos. You aren't constantly cleaning walls or whatever that perception is and the add-ons for the gun are awesome. Especially the rocket booster, helps so much with skipping/speed running to stars, getting to places on the level not previously possible (and they probably didn't intend for you to be there), and just in general makes the platforming a lot more fun. The other one makes you run ridiculously fast too, just so many possibilities when mixing up the add-ons.
And yes, I'm gonna buy that, and New Mario Bros. Wii!
I just finished the original New Mario Bros. last Sunday, AGAIN, and got all the Star Coins, and used them all, and unlocked every possible exit... again!
Yep, this seems to be the golden age of Mario all right...
We are possibly entering a Silver Age of Mario. NSMB might be seen as the opening salvo, depending on how NSMBWii turns out and whether they continue with 2D Mario games.
Personally I don't think NSMB on the DS was big enough, original enough, or challenging enough to really stand on its own. For example, there are tons of levels or parts of SMW where you have mario, a cape, and a platform, and that's it. In fact, I'd argue that in most cases what makes SMB3 and SMW so enduring is that in most cases the powerups are superfluous. Yes, the cape and tail and suits are fun, and some levels require them, but they serve to transform the level when they're available (and when they're not, and carried in from another level).
The big/small mechanic is neat but not nearly transformative enough compared to those two games. I also felt that it was pretty cheap how the worlds were set up so that you end up unlocking the "full game" (worlds 4 and 7), unlike, say, SMW with its entirely separate challenge levels. To me, a new Mario game has to have something equivalent to the Star Road for it to even attempt to come close to SMW.
I'm waiting for a Mario revival, not just in its gameplay roots, but in its visual presentation as well. I love that they're going back to basics with this new one, but where's that old Nintendo visual style? From SMB1 to SMB3 was a revelation in visuals, yet from Sunshine to Galaxy 2 we have basically the same thing, more or less.
I want to see a retro Wind Waker style shift, back to what gave the original games their distinct look, but updated kind of thing. They abandoned the idea of a fantastic looking universe after SMWorld 2, and I'd like to see Nintendo flex it's artistic muscles again and make something beatiful. This is what I want and I'm sticking to it.
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Edit: Although I've not been on the Wii Shop channel for a while, if someone would correct me I would be very happy.
To be honest, I prefer the original NES graphics to the new ones for All Stars. Especially 3. 3 looked great on the NES.
that's what I was thinking. comic book nerdery.
All with original graphics mode, and "New" graphics mode (based on the style of NSMB) and for the NES ones, remake graphics mode.
Sure, it has the advantage of being modern, but it also had to overcome so many problems in 3D action games. Either way, I think Galaxy is legitimately the best of the main mario games.
I definitely agree. When I got Galaxy, I just couldn't stop playing; it captivated me in a way that hadn't been done since my childhood glee of old. Everything was fun, nothing was frustrating, some things were challenging but the goal was in sight and you knew how to do it. I enjoyed Galaxy like I hadn't enjoyed a game in a very long time.
I liked Galaxy. I just recognize that I've got years of 3D platforming backing me. To a newcomer, the shit is hard to the point of putting it down and never picking it up again.
That's a long run to be a single age, but I can't argue with the results.
While I prefer World to 3 in the 2d games, I still firmly believe that 64 is The Greatest Video Game of All Time.