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Games of the 21st Winter Olympiad: Day 4

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    toxk_02toxk_02 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Asiina wrote: »
    This course was designed by the same person whose designed the last four olympic tracks. I would assume this person knows what they're doing more than random dudes on the internet. I'm listening to an official on the news right now who is saying that never before has someone been thrown out of one of these tracks.
    Are we allowed to trust the opinions of the people racing down them?
    "I think they are pushing it a little too much," Australia's Hannah Campbell-Pegg said Thursday night after she nearly lost control in training. "To what extent are we just little lemmings that they just throw down a track and we're crash-test dummies? I mean, this is our lives."

    ...

    Holcomb, driver of USA I, nicknamed the course's 13th curve the "50-50" curve because of the odds of a crash.

    Holcomb has since claimed that the course was designed backward, with tighter turns near the bottom where sleds max-out the speed. And American luger Tony Benshoof told NBC: "When I first got on this track, I thought that somebody was going to kill themselves." [Feb 6th]
    I mean, maybe these guys were exaggerating and just trying to build interest because danger is part of the appeal of luge, but these quotes sure look different now.


    A contributing factor may also be the lack of practice time foreigners had with the track.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/21/sports/21olympics.html?pagewanted=2
    NY Times wrote:
    Sept. 2009

    The benefits of familiarity vary by sport. It is particularly important on one-of-a-kind new sites like the track for luge, bobsled and skeleton. Canadian athletes will have had hundreds of trips down what is widely considered the world’s most treacherous course. Foreign athletes will have had a few dozen.

    toxk_02 on
    OTP.jpg
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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Asiina wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Robman wrote: »
    It looks like they just need to modify the track at that one turn though, which shouldn't be too hard.

    I can see them changing it now, but it's still questionable as to why it was like that in the first place. Well, actually it's not, the track's designed to be super-fast because the public gets more interested when world records are being set, and more viewers = more money. It's the same reason the swimming pool in Beijing was designed the way it was, so that Phelps & Co could set a bunch of records - except the Chinese pool didn't make swimmers more likely to drown. Maybe they should have had sharks chase after the swimmers or something, it might have shaved off another 0.2 seconds.

    And even with a course layout change the girders should still be covered up. No sane person would line a basketball court with steel girders, and that's just people moving at foot speed.

    This course was designed by the same person whose designed the last four olympic tracks. I would assume this person knows what they're doing more than random dudes on the internet. I'm listening to an official on the news right now who is saying that never before has someone been thrown out of one of these tracks.

    The track is definitely faster than the average track
    The crashes came in the wake of Austrian Manuel Pfister clocking the fastest speed ever recorded. On Thursday, he hit 154 km/h which topped 153.98 km/h, set at the same course last year.
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/2010wintergames/Luge+events+suspended+Whistler/2557453/story.html

    And even the designer himself admits problems with the design
    The German mastermind of the Vancouver Olympics luge track, where Georgia's Nodar Kumaritashvili crashed and died on Friday, admitted that safety modifications were needed following the tragedy.

    "I am just so sorry for the lad. This is terrible and shocking news. We have developed six Olympic tracks and nobody ever came off the course," Udo Gurgel told the online edition of German sports daily Sport Bild.

    But Gurgel said that the horrific death of the 21-year-old - who shot off the course and slammed into a metal column at more than 145kph - meant changes would clearly have to be contemplated.

    "We now have to consider how we can alter the piste. At the exit area we could increase the height of the walls by some 40 to 50 centimetres," he said.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEmrC7MGKv50oj6WIaRgTFPKnOfQ

    That quote doesn't say that he thought there were problems with the design. It says that this has never happened before in anything he's ever designed. I thought it was only 4 tracks, apparently it's 6. Hindsight is 20/20 and they're saying that now they're going to make changes. That's not the same as admitting there were problems in the first place.

    All evidence appears to indicate a freak accident, not some sort of systematic problem with the track.

    Also, of course it's the fastest track. There have been no regulations on speed before and new tracks have been getting faster and faster.

    Asiina on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    THREE TIMES?

    Gosling on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    NBC is showing slow-mo HD replays of the accident.

    wow

    Malkor on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Malkor wrote: »
    NBC is showing slow-mo HD replays of the accident.

    wow

    There's showing the incident (which I don't mind), and then just being a silly goose.

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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    toxk_02 wrote: »
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/21/sports/21olympics.html?pagewanted=2
    NY Times wrote:
    Sept. 2009

    The benefits of familiarity vary by sport. It is particularly important on one-of-a-kind new sites like the track for luge, bobsled and skeleton. Canadian athletes will have had hundreds of trips down what is widely considered the world’s most treacherous course. Foreign athletes will have had a few dozen.

    The number I've heard is 40 practice runs compared to 300 runs. And yes, Canadians will have an advantage because they'll have more practice time, and so they'll be better prepared to handle the difficulties of this track, but I don't really see how there's a way to prevent that or how it's relevant. If this accident had happened on this guy's first run on the track why would it matter if he had 39 or 390 more runs to do?

    Asiina on
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    TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    PantsB wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    So. Any update on if/where these opening ceremonies can be watched online?

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/ceremonies/index.html ?

    Well, I've never not called myself a silly goose. Thanks.


    And now I can't stop laughing. There's a button marked 'boss' which pulls up a rather unconvincing Windows Vista picture complete with excel sheet.

    Tamin on
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    toxk_02toxk_02 Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Asiina wrote: »
    toxk_02 wrote: »
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/21/sports/21olympics.html?pagewanted=2
    NY Times wrote:
    Sept. 2009

    The benefits of familiarity vary by sport. It is particularly important on one-of-a-kind new sites like the track for luge, bobsled and skeleton. Canadian athletes will have had hundreds of trips down what is widely considered the world’s most treacherous course. Foreign athletes will have had a few dozen.

    The number I've heard is 40 practice runs compared to 300 runs. And yes, Canadians will have an advantage because they'll have more practice time, and so they'll be better prepared to handle the difficulties of this track, but I don't really see how there's a way to prevent that or how it's relevant. If this accident had happened on this guy's first run on the track why would it matter if he had 39 or 390 more runs to do?
    If I know I have 300 practice runs, I'm taking it easy the first 20 or 30 or however many, getting familiar with the track and its turns at my own pace.

    If I show up and only get 40 practice runs and my competitors have had 300, there may be some pressure to skip to the "getting fast times" part of practice rather than waste precious runs feeling out the track.

    toxk_02 on
    OTP.jpg
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    This is why I am not watching the coverage until the ceremonies start at 6. Though I hear NBC is tape delaying them in the Pacific Time zone, so I guess it sucks to be a west coast American. Though they may be able to watch it live on the Canadian coverage at: http://www.ctvolympics.ca/

    Assuming it isn't IP locked to inside Canada or whatever.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    First event, ski jump qualifying.

    Gosling on
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    Wet BanditWet Bandit Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    First event, ski jump qualifying.

    Now that's how you kick off the Winter Olympics! Woooooo!

    Wet Bandit on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Tamin wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    So. Any update on if/where these opening ceremonies can be watched online?

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/ceremonies/index.html ?

    Well, I've never not called myself a silly goose. Thanks.


    And now I can't stop laughing. There's a button marked 'boss' which pulls up a rather unconvincing Windows Vista picture complete with excel sheet.

    I'm not positive that link will work but it seems like that'd be the spot

    PantsB on
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    TheCrumblyCrackerTheCrumblyCracker Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Thanks CTV and Much Music for bringing me 16 year old girls in a hot tub. Just what I wanted.

    TheCrumblyCracker on
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    BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Asiina wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    And even the designer himself admits problems with the design
    The German mastermind of the Vancouver Olympics luge track, where Georgia's Nodar Kumaritashvili crashed and died on Friday, admitted that safety modifications were needed following the tragedy.

    "I am just so sorry for the lad. This is terrible and shocking news. We have developed six Olympic tracks and nobody ever came off the course," Udo Gurgel told the online edition of German sports daily Sport Bild.

    But Gurgel said that the horrific death of the 21-year-old - who shot off the course and slammed into a metal column at more than 145kph - meant changes would clearly have to be contemplated.

    "We now have to consider how we can alter the piste. At the exit area we could increase the height of the walls by some 40 to 50 centimetres," he said.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEmrC7MGKv50oj6WIaRgTFPKnOfQ

    That quote doesn't say that he thought there were problems with the design. It says that this has never happened before in anything he's ever designed. I thought it was only 4 tracks, apparently it's 6. Hindsight is 20/20 and they're saying that now they're going to make changes. That's not the same as admitting there were problems in the first place.

    All evidence appears to indicate a freak accident, not some sort of systematic problem with the track.

    Also, of course it's the fastest track. There have been no regulations on speed before and new tracks have been getting faster and faster.

    If the designer is saying it needs to be changed, there's a problem. Why would the designer be advocating a change if he thought it was just a freak accident, and the course was fine?

    And you really don't see a problem with it being the world's fastest (and arguably most dangerous) track? Keep in mind that the only qualification for being able to race this track is that you're from a country. We've had bobsled teams from Jamaica in the Olympics before. The Olympics may contain the world's elite sledders, but that does not mean every Olympian is an elite sledder. And even the elite sledders are crashing. The world's #1 luger and defending gold medalist Armin Zoeggeler crashed earlier this week.

    BubbaT on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    PantsB wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Tamin wrote: »
    So. Any update on if/where these opening ceremonies can be watched online?

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/ceremonies/index.html ?

    Well, I've never not called myself a silly goose. Thanks.


    And now I can't stop laughing. There's a button marked 'boss' which pulls up a rather unconvincing Windows Vista picture complete with excel sheet.

    I'm not positive that link will work but it seems like that'd be the spot

    That boss thing is hilarious. My office has actually put in TV's in all the lunch rooms for the olympics.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Dramatic shot of curling stones colliding. Thank you, opening montage.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Apparently there's a large anti-olympic protest that just formed near the opening ceremonies centre that CBC just showed pictures of.

    Aegis on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    Dramatic shot of curling stones colliding. Thank you, opening montage.

    Don't sleep on curling. Its bizarrely and arbitrarily dramatic at times.

    Watching the opening montage, I realize how much of the enjoyment/drama of the winter sports comes from falling. And now that someone got more than seriously hurt, I don't know if I can enjoy that as much

    PantsB on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    SWEEPING VISTAS

    I rarely watch shit live, this is killing me.

    Malkor on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Word from CBC is that as of 30 minutes ago the Georgian Luge team is going to be staying in the games.

    Aegis on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Malkor wrote: »
    SWEEPING VISTAS

    I rarely watch shit live, this is killing me.
    I'm switching back and forth between this and my new ME2 game

    PantsB on
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    omg they are not even sitting down gonna watch later I guess

    Malkor on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Ceremonies as such don't start until 6 PM (Pacific) as far as I know. We're in pre-game show mode.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Corvus wrote: »
    Ceremonies as such don't start until 6 PM (Pacific) as far as I know. We're in pre-game show mode.

    Does that mean the march of nations? That's pretty much all I want to see

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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Terrible news about the Georgian sledder :(
    I hope that whomever wins the event he was in will also bring up a Georgian flag.

    I could watch curling for hours and hours easy, it's an acquired taste.

    Aridhol on
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    PantsB wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Ceremonies as such don't start until 6 PM (Pacific) as far as I know. We're in pre-game show mode.

    Does that mean the march of nations? That's pretty much all I want to see

    I believe that's 6pm PST yes.

    Aridhol on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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    AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Rumour has it a VIRTUAL 3d Terry Fox hollogram :)

    I am guessing Gretzky as well.

    Aridhol on
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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Asiina wrote: »
    BubbaT wrote: »
    And even the designer himself admits problems with the design
    The German mastermind of the Vancouver Olympics luge track, where Georgia's Nodar Kumaritashvili crashed and died on Friday, admitted that safety modifications were needed following the tragedy.

    "I am just so sorry for the lad. This is terrible and shocking news. We have developed six Olympic tracks and nobody ever came off the course," Udo Gurgel told the online edition of German sports daily Sport Bild.

    But Gurgel said that the horrific death of the 21-year-old - who shot off the course and slammed into a metal column at more than 145kph - meant changes would clearly have to be contemplated.

    "We now have to consider how we can alter the piste. At the exit area we could increase the height of the walls by some 40 to 50 centimetres," he said.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jEmrC7MGKv50oj6WIaRgTFPKnOfQ

    That quote doesn't say that he thought there were problems with the design. It says that this has never happened before in anything he's ever designed. I thought it was only 4 tracks, apparently it's 6. Hindsight is 20/20 and they're saying that now they're going to make changes. That's not the same as admitting there were problems in the first place.

    All evidence appears to indicate a freak accident, not some sort of systematic problem with the track.

    Also, of course it's the fastest track. There have been no regulations on speed before and new tracks have been getting faster and faster.

    If the designer is saying it needs to be changed, there's a problem. Why would the designer be advocating a change if he thought it was just a freak accident, and the course was fine?

    And you really don't see a problem with it being the world's fastest (and arguably most dangerous) track? Keep in mind that the only qualification for being able to race this track is that you're from a country. We've had bobsled teams from Jamaica in the Olympics before. The Olympics may contain the world's elite sledders, but that does not mean every Olympian is an elite sledder. And even the elite sledders are crashing. The world's #1 luger and defending gold medalist Armin Zoeggeler crashed earlier this week.

    I do see it as a problem that this track is too fast, but I see that as a problem with the sport in general that needs to be addressed. As far as I've seen, there have been no previous regulations because nothing like this has ever happened before. Again, hindsight is 20/20. Every olympic track built has been faster than the previous one. How was anyone to know that this was going to be the one that was "too fast"?

    What I'm having an issue with is the armchair engineers as if they could have predicted this when nobody else did. The quotes from lugers now seem ominous, but there are quotes about the Torino track with a similar sentiment. I'm sure if we look back 4 years before that there would have been concerns with the Salt Lake City track as well.

    Asiina on
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    SirUltimosSirUltimos Don't talk, Rusty. Just paint. Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Thanks CTV and Much Music for bringing me 16 year old girls in a hot tub. Just what I wanted.

    Yeah, what the hell was with that?

    SirUltimos on
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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Aridhol wrote: »
    PantsB wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Ceremonies as such don't start until 6 PM (Pacific) as far as I know. We're in pre-game show mode.

    Does that mean the march of nations? That's pretty much all I want to see

    I believe that's 6pm PST yes.

    Yep

    http://www.ctvolympics.ca/tv-online-listings/index.html

    Site requires Silverlight to work properly, if you haven't got it.

    Corvus on
    :so_raven:
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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Gretzky is a hack.

    Someone wanted him to shoot a puck to light the cauldron. He'd probably miss if it was more than a foot away.

    Asiina on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Asiina wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Gretzky is a hack.

    Someone wanted him to shoot a puck to light the cauldron. He'd probably miss if it was more than a foot away.

    You never know, they might go old-school and have the torchbearer just run up a flight of stairs and place torch to cauldron directly.

    Gosling on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    I've got this irrational fear that they'll have Sidney Crosby light the torch.

    If it turns into reality I may need to find a cliff.

    Aegis on
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    Lord JezoLord Jezo Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Is that CTV thing region locked? I click it and it just says there are problems loading the video.

    Lord Jezo on
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    AsiinaAsiina ... WaterlooRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    Asiina wrote: »
    Gosling wrote: »
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Gretzky is a hack.

    Someone wanted him to shoot a puck to light the cauldron. He'd probably miss if it was more than a foot away.

    You never know, they might go old-school and have the torchbearer just run up a flight of stairs and place torch to cauldron directly.


    ...he'd probably still miss.

    Asiina on
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    PantsBPantsB Fake Thomas Jefferson Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Gosling wrote: »
    Who's gonna light the cauldron... if it's anyone other than Gretzky, something is fucking wrong.

    Its Obama. Just to piss off the Republicans.
    Sweden then gives Canada a high five and starts trying to get South Africa to give him the Golden Boot

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    CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Lord Jezo wrote: »
    Is that CTV thing region locked? I click it and it just says there are problems loading the video.

    Do you have the Silverlight plug in, if not, you need it to use the site.

    And, I do not want Gretzky to light the cauldron, he wouldn't be an awful choice, but I'd rather have Terry Fox'es family light the flame.

    Corvus on
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    Jagged WafflesJagged Waffles Registered User regular
    edited February 2010
    SirUltimos wrote: »
    Thanks CTV and Much Music for bringing me 16 year old girls in a hot tub. Just what I wanted.

    Yeah, what the hell was with that?

    Embarrassing, that's what. The stuff inside wasn't any better, everything came across as a really forced attempt at being a 'crazy' party.

    Jagged Waffles on
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    AegisAegis Fear My Dance Overshot Toronto, Landed in OttawaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2010
    Yea, seriously, Terry Fox relatives would be a classy move. Guy was a hero.

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