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Pre Fight Debate Thread: Brackets 21 & 22

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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    It is hard to catch a bullet (or card or baseball) when you don't see or hear it coming.

    deadonthestreet on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Also you seem to be an alt so I move that your votes not be counted.

    deadonthestreet on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    i love elektra's face in that panel

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
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    GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What Daredevil is that from? I've read everything from DD since MK started, but I dont think I've seen that panel.

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    It is hard to catch a bullet (or card or baseball) when you don't see or hear it coming.

    It's even harder to try and hit someone who isn't going to expose himself so stupidly, so I'm guessing that Bullseye would only get to use his abilities within Taskmaster's visual range, meaning that his projectiles can easily be dodged.


    Easily dodged by Taskmaster, that is, due to his ability to follow Bullseye's movements, and because he knows Bullseye's fighting style and psychological profile pretty much inside and out.

    Hell, it's not unlikely for Taskmaster to pretend to be hit fatally and fake death, only to shoot Bullseye in the eye with bullets from his guns when he least expects it.

    Spectre-x on
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    Mai-KeroMai-Kero Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    What Daredevil is that from? I've read everything from DD since MK started, but I dont think I've seen that panel.

    Seriously. I want to read this now.

    Mai-Kero on
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    CrayonCrayon Sleeps in the wrong bed. TejasRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Definitely looks like it's from the Marvel Knights line.

    Crayon on
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    ServoServo Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2007
    i do believe it's from the murdock papers storyline, the last one bendis did

    Servo on
    newsigs.jpg
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    TofenheimerTofenheimer Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    It's from issue 78 of the MK run, like Servo said it's part of the Murdock Papers storyline.

    Tofenheimer on
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    RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    The voting thread from thsi round is why I quit voting...and I don't see why we even bother to debate. Shiva has NO way to win...yet she gets votes.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    This is what I bring up almost every discussion, but noooooo, people don't like being reminded why they're wrong


    And that makes me sad.

    Spectre-x on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    Same thing happened to Zoom and Impulse.

    Marathon on
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    RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    This is what I bring up almost every discussion, but noooooo, people don't like being reminded why they're wrong


    And that makes me sad.

    It's not so much about being right or wrong...these things are all speculation, anyway, you can't be wrong. I was under the impression that you had to somehow justify your vote though....if you think Shiva would win, you'd have to come up with at least a semi-plausible scenario for that to happen. Just saying "Fighter X would lose because he's a goofy looking fuck" isn't....or at least SHOULDN'T....be acceptable as a vote.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I was just kidding, but I agree with you.

    Spectre-x on
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    BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Registered User, Moderator Mod Emeritus
    edited January 2007
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    I don't think that's it exactly. When you have contestants whose powers make any debate irrelevant (can go faster than the speed of light! cannot be hit or seen!) people are going to get annoyed and vote them out to keep the contest interesting. It's not as if Nimrod's popular - he beat Zoom because a) some people came up with some possible ways for him to compete against Zoom and b) because 'Can go faster than the speed of light and beats you up before you have a chance to do anything' is just aggravating and cheap.

    Bogart on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Bogart wrote:
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    I don't think that's it exactly. When you have contestants whose powers make any debate irrelevant (can go faster than the speed of light! cannot be hit or seen!) people are going to get annoyed and vote them out to keep the contest interesting. It's not as if Nimrod's popular - he beat Zoom because a) some people came up with some possible ways for him to compete against Zoom and b) because 'Can go faster than the speed of light and beats you up before you have a chance to do anything' is just aggravating and cheap.

    So, when Tashmaster fights Despero...are people going to vote for taskmaster...because any debate how how Taskmaster could beat Despero would be irrelevant.

    I'm sorry, but some of the villians in the fight have NO chance against other villains.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Bogart wrote:
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    I don't think that's it exactly. When you have contestants whose powers make any debate irrelevant (can go faster than the speed of light! cannot be hit or seen!) people are going to get annoyed and vote them out to keep the contest interesting. It's not as if Nimrod's popular - he beat Zoom because a) some people came up with some possible ways for him to compete against Zoom and b) because 'Can go faster than the speed of light and beats you up before you have a chance to do anything' is just aggravating and cheap.

    So "is more advanced than anything la la la and he's from a poorly written future lala where everybody's been killed by him and his friends lala even though that would be completely impossible considering everybody includes a Norse god and his buddies from Asgard, several guys with more advanced technology and lots of experience fighting similar foes as well as some dreadfully powerful villains lalala and oh he can adapt to anything no matter what" isn't cheap?

    I'm talking about Nimrod, of course. How is Nimrod not cheap according to how powerful you people make him out to be?

    Spectre-x on
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    MonkeydryeMonkeydrye Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Bogart wrote:
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    I don't think that's it exactly. When you have contestants whose powers make any debate irrelevant (can go faster than the speed of light! cannot be hit or seen!) people are going to get annoyed and vote them out to keep the contest interesting. It's not as if Nimrod's popular - he beat Zoom because a) some people came up with some possible ways for him to compete against Zoom and b) because 'Can go faster than the speed of light and beats you up before you have a chance to do anything' is just aggravating and cheap.

    So "is more advanced than anything la la la and he's from a poorly written future lala where everybody's been killed by him and his friends lala even though that would be completely impossible considering everybody includes a Norse god and his buddies from Asgard, several guys with more advanced technology and lots of experience fighting similar foes as well as some dreadfully powerful villains lalala and oh he can adapt to anything no matter what" isn't cheap?

    I'm talking about Nimrod, of course. How is Nimrod not cheap according to how powerful you people make him out to be?

    He's Marvel, so it's ok.

    Monkeydrye on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    RonnieWooWoo!RonnieWooWoo! Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    So, when Tashmaster fights Despero...are people going to vote for taskmaster...because any debate how how Taskmaster could beat Despero would be irrelevant.

    I'm sorry, but some of the villians in the fight have NO chance against other villains.

    As long as someone can JUSTIFY the vote, I have no problem with people voting for someone, even if he/she is a huge underdog. For example, Nimrod beating Zoom isn't likely, but when I voted for it, I explained how it could happen. My beef isn't so much with people's opinions, it's with people basing their vote solely on "Such and such a character is gay". Crap like that should be disallowed.

    RonnieWooWoo! on
    Woo!
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Oh come on people.

    Bullseye.

    I mean, it's not like Bullseye can't catch the shit that gets flung at him.

    2ox2.jpg
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    Dude's pretty solid in a fight. Dude's way better at range. More of you need to vote Bullseye.

    deadonthestreet on
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    robocop is bleedingrobocop is bleeding Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Well, maybe for the cross hero-vs-villain free for all, we could have weight classes? For the same reasons that the League of Calamitous Intent from Veture Bros. vets its arches against the heroes, we could do the same so as to avoid speedsters skewing results, plus we could have "belt matches" where similar powersets get to rumble for the best in class.

    So weight classes could be:

    Street (Little/No Superpowers - The Spirit, Wildcat, Joker, etc)
    Lightweight (Minor powers - Daredevil, etc)
    Middleweight ("Average" powers - Cyclops, Cyborg, etc)
    Heavyweight (Big guys)
    Titanweight (Superman et al)
    Cosmicweight (Gods, things that eat worlds, etc)

    Plus there could be special themed matches like "The Tostitos Sorcerer Supreme Mega Magic User Belt" or the "Allstate Artificial Intelligence and Sentient Machine Rumble" or even the "Stiltman Memorial Crappy Villain Flail-Off".

    robocop is bleeding on

    Waitsing.jpg
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    MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Stiltman Memorial Crappy Villain Flail-Off


    Poor guy. Never even had a chance.

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Dude's pretty solid in a fight. Dude's way better at range. More of you need to vote Bullseye.

    Dude's pretty good in a fight. Taskmaster is fifty times better, and will fight Bullseye with the skills of over fifty people who are better at fighting than Bullseye.

    I'm also not really seeing Bullseye catch an energy construct and use it to his advantage, seeing as it can be deactivated at a moment's notice and replaced with Wolverine's claws or Spider-man's webbing.

    Spectre-x on
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    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Dude's pretty solid in a fight. Dude's way better at range. More of you need to vote Bullseye.

    Dude's pretty good in a fight. Taskmaster is fifty times better, and will fight Bullseye with the skills of over fifty people who are better at fighting than Bullseye.

    I'm also not really seeing Bullseye catch an energy construct and use it to his advantage, seeing as it can be deactivated at a moment's notice and replaced with Wolverine's claws or Spider-man's webbing.

    Which might actually be a smart move. Start it off as Caps shield and let Bullseye catch it, and once he does change it into Spider-Man's webbing so now Bullseye is basically caught in a net.

    Marathon on
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Exactly. I suggested something similar earlier, too.

    Spectre-x on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    I don't want the vote to be skewed by popularity although it's already been done. I simply prefer Taskmaster over Bullseye but I still respect that Bullseye has a damn good shot at victory. Now from the looks of people not giving Bullseye even the slightest of a chance I want to vote Bullseye just out of spite. How annoying.

    DasUberEdward on
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    MajidahMajidah Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Shiva is quite cool, but it's sort of a omgSephiorth!!!11one! cool rather than a monicle and top hat cool. GG has gotten fatastically lucky that he's yet to go up against a a) Virgin, b) Englishman or c) magician. He's the shade of this tournament and I'll let him by. Loki's going to demolish him though.

    Now to more important matters. Bullseye v. Tasky is a great fight BECAUSE they both have relatively weak powers. Both of these combatants do an awful lot with awfully little, and that's why their cool.

    Tasky's power doesn't make him a good fighter, it makes him a good dancer (in the same way that Jackie Chan has never studied Kung-fu, just lots of coreography), where tasky's incredible fighting ability comes from is his intellegent recombination of his dance moves. He thinks situations through, and very quickly comes up with a clever combination of techniques to ensure his victory.

    Bullseye is the same way, throwing things really hard and accurately sounds like a shoveler-grade power (he throws well, he throws very well!), but Bullseye combines this with careful planning, superb combat experience and a penchant for violence.

    In this match, each fighter will have a hundred tricks up his sleve, and each will anticipate about 85 of the other guy's tricks. They spot eachother at the same time as they both creep into a murderworld room. Bullseye tosses a knife, Task pops his shield. Task throws his shield, bullseye ducks and ricochets a baseball off the wall. Task catches the ball (he's watched baseball duh) and pulls a gun. Bullseye fills the air with hundreds of thumbtacks. This continues for an hour.

    But there are those 15 tricks they don't anticipate, and those mark them. Bullseye manages to get a shot through to tasky's gut. Task cuts off bullseye's hand. They're both tired and hurt and making mistakes. Tasky cyclone kicks Bullseye into an expoloding jack in the box. Bullseye pulls out the shrapenal and throws it into Tasky's neck. They crawl toward each other leaving huge blood smears behind them.

    What I'm saying is, no one's walking away. No one's being flown away to the ICU. These two are killers and they will kill each other. They'll both be too dead to advance.

    Majidah on
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    DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Majidah wrote:
    Shiva is quite cool, but it's sort of a omgSephiorth!!!11one! cool rather than a monicle and top hat cool. GG has gotten fatastically lucky that he's yet to go up against a a) Virgin, b) Englishman or c) magician. He's the shade of this tournament and I'll let him by. Loki's going to demolish him though.

    Now to more important matters. Bullseye v. Tasky is a great fight BECAUSE they both have relatively weak powers. Both of these combatants do an awful lot with awfully little, and that's why their cool.

    Tasky's power doesn't make him a good fighter, it makes him a good dancer (in the same way that Jackie Chan has never studied Kung-fu, just lots of coreography), where tasky's incredible fighting ability comes from is his intellegent recombination of his dance moves. He thinks situations through, and very quickly comes up with a clever combination of techniques to ensure his victory.

    Bullseye is the same way, throwing things really hard and accurately sounds like a shoveler-grade power (he throws well, he throws very well!), but Bullseye combines this with careful planning, superb combat experience and a penchant for violence.

    In this match, each fighter will have a hundred tricks up his sleve, and each will anticipate about 85 of the other guy's tricks. They spot eachother at the same time as they both creep into a murderworld room. Bullseye tosses a knife, Task pops his shield. Task throws his shield, bullseye ducks and ricochets a baseball off the wall. Task catches the ball (he's watched baseball duh) and pulls a gun. Bullseye fills the air with hundreds of thumbtacks. This continues for an hour.

    But there are those 15 tricks they don't anticipate, and those mark them. Bullseye manages to get a shot through to tasky's gut. Task cuts off bullseye's hand. They're both tired and hurt and making mistakes. Tasky cyclone kicks Bullseye into an expoloding jack in the box. Bullseye pulls out the shrapenal and throws it into Tasky's neck. They crawl toward each other leaving huge blood smears behind them.

    What I'm saying is, no one's walking away. No one's being flown away to the ICU. These two are killers and they will kill each other. They'll both be too dead to advance.
    Agreed. Thusly my obstination.

    DasUberEdward on
    steam_sig.png
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    Bad KarmaBad Karma Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Majidah wrote:
    Shiva is quite cool, but it's sort of a omgSephiorth!!!11one! cool

    Out. Now.

    Bad Karma on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Everyone is hitting on TM using Cap's Shield, but why would he throw it at all? The logical progression of events is him using the shield and his knowledge of Bullseye's techniques to easily get in close and take him out with relatively little effort, and no projectile-dodging required. I just can't see Taskmaster trying to fight fire with fire here when it makes more sense to close the gap between them (at 2x speed) and end it quickly.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    GoodCitizenGoodCitizen Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Iroh wrote:
    Everyone is hitting on TM using Cap's Shield, but why would he throw it at all? The logical progression of events is him using the shield and his knowledge of Bullseye's techniques to easily get in close and take him out with relatively little effort, and no projectile-dodging required. I just can't see Taskmaster trying to fight fire with fire here when it makes more sense to close the gap between them (at 2x speed) and end it quickly.
    If tasky CAN close the gap, this fight is over. Considering the fact that Tasky can mimic both silver samurai's AND Wolverine's abilities AND weapons, Bullseye would be 10 kinds of fucked.

    GoodCitizen on
    Benjamin Franklin used foil covered window glass to create a capacitor. He then attempted to kill a turkey with the stored charge. Instead, he knocked himself out. Franklin later wrote, "I tried to kill a turkey but nearly succeeded in killing a goose."
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    If tasky CAN close the gap, this fight is over. Considering the fact that Tasky can mimic both silver samurai's AND Wolverine's abilities AND weapons, Bullseye would be 10 kinds of fucked.
    I don't forsee TM having any trouble catching up to Bullseye, considering he has double speed available to him. And really, for Bullseye to maintain the separation he'd have to stay on the move, severely limiting his ability to throw anything and slow Taskmaster down, if he can even overcome the vibranium shield somehow.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    Spectre-xSpectre-x Rating: AWESOME YESRegistered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Actually, Taskmaster can only move at double speed for a very short while before it starts to aversely affect his body.

    Spectre-x on
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    IrohIroh Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Understood, but my point is that unless Bullseye is really damned fast, Taskmaster should be able to spot him and catch up to him quick enough to end it without too much difficulty.

    Iroh on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Ok, if Shiva is not a virgin, here is how she can honestly beat GG.

    Step one: draw gun

    Step two: pump 5 or 6 rounds into one of the standing stones

    Step three: pick up the biggest/ sharpest piece that breaks off the main stone

    Step four: Insert piece into the Gentleman. Stonehenge is practically made of magic.


    No "OMG Sephiroph!", no "Yo, f**k GG", just earnest and true strategy.

    EDIT: Just saw that no equipment is listed for Shiva. Change steps one and two to finding a rock on the ground and pummeling one of the standing stones until some good fragments break off.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
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    robosagogorobosagogo Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    She can probably break off a chunk with her bare hands. It's comic book karate.

    robosagogo on
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    The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Spectre-x wrote:
    Bogart wrote:
    Monkeydrye wrote:
    Am I the only one that thinks Doom needs to intervene in the voting for the Shiva/Ghost fight? It seems like a large number of the votes coming in for Shiva are simply "Fuck GG" or "Ghost's powers are stupid" votes. The question is who'd win in a fight, not who do you like better, correct? Despite the fact that intangibility is a goddamn ridiculous power, that doesn't mean Shiva should get a free pass.

    I understand that Intangability is cheese. So are half the powers we have been dealing with.

    But these things have been popularity contests for half the people from day one.

    I don't think that's it exactly. When you have contestants whose powers make any debate irrelevant (can go faster than the speed of light! cannot be hit or seen!) people are going to get annoyed and vote them out to keep the contest interesting. It's not as if Nimrod's popular - he beat Zoom because a) some people came up with some possible ways for him to compete against Zoom and b) because 'Can go faster than the speed of light and beats you up before you have a chance to do anything' is just aggravating and cheap.

    So "is more advanced than anything la la la and he's from a poorly written future lala where everybody's been killed by him and his friends lala even though that would be completely impossible considering everybody includes a Norse god and his buddies from Asgard, several guys with more advanced technology and lots of experience fighting similar foes as well as some dreadfully powerful villains lalala and oh he can adapt to anything no matter what" isn't cheap?

    I'm talking about Nimrod, of course. How is Nimrod not cheap according to how powerful you people make him out to be?

    He's Marvel, so it's ok.

    To be fair, Ultron did kick the shit out of Nimrod in this tourney, so that shouldn't happen in Nimrod's future.
    And how the fuck did Nimrod beat Thor? Unlike Zoom, Thor has durability and strength well above a normal human. Whereas all Nimrod needs is one hit to send Zoom across the field or break his face(faster than light or not, if Nimrod was able to connect even one blow, Zoom was fucked)

    The Muffin Man on
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    ExcessiveKnifeExcessiveKnife Registered User regular
    edited January 2007
    Even better. And we know she's enough of a b***h to feel no guilt in busting up a wonder of the world to save her own hide.

    ExcessiveKnife on
    The mad beeper is on the loose!
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