I don't find it unreasonable for a guild to want you to min/max your professions if they provide you with all the necessary flasks/foods/repair costs. Especially considering a guild like that is going to be doing the newest/hardest content, and I would assume it's members would be naturally inclined to min/max anyways.
Replacing what I lose from a gathering profession or alchemy has nothing to do with why I think it's ridiculous for most guilds to require a profession. What it does have to do with, is the large cost and/or time investment with levelling up that new profession.
Expecting someone to level a profession on their own is fucking ridiculous, especially considering that one of the best tanks I know is an engineer. Any guild that would require such isn't worth the time to fill out their (undoubtedly lengthy) application.
Expecting someone to level a profession on their own is fucking ridiculous, especially considering that one of the best tanks I know is an engineer. Any guild that would require such isn't worth the time to fill out their (undoubtedly lengthy) application.
I think it's a situation where the guild and the player are suited to each other. If you're a player that won't min/max to that degree, you don't want that guild, and that guild doesn't want you. There are players that do enjoy that kind of hyper-optimization, and enjoy playing with people who do the same.
Expecting someone to level a profession on their own is fucking ridiculous, especially considering that one of the best tanks I know is an engineer. Any guild that would require such isn't worth the time to fill out their (undoubtedly lengthy) application.
Expecting someone to 'realistically' name their character like some Tolkien reject is fucking ridiculous, especially considering one of the best druids I knew was named 'Taurenzilla.' Any guild that would require such isn't worth the time to fill out their (undoubtedly lengthy) application.
/s
As captaink just said, it's a situation of a guild suiting a player. There are super hardcore guilds for super hardcore players. There are RP guilds for RP players. There are a lot of guilds out there, and I have good news... you don't have to join them all.
Bobble on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I can not comprehend your attitudes towards this. A tank with two of: Mining/JC/BS/Leatherworking/Enchanting will have a HP advantage of more than 1k over a tank that does not have both professions as helpful ones. This is a simple concept. its a HUGE improvement to your character. Presumably, if you don't care about improving your character, you also won't mind if I go on a raid with you and take all the gear drops because hey, who cares about improving your character?
You keep coming back to this "if you don't want to min/max your professions, you obviously don't care about upgrading your character and thus don't care about gear drops" argument. It's pretty flawed.
Running instances and getting loot drops is fun. Grinding professions is not fun (for a lot of people). For you min/maxing is fun, but to imply that if someone doesn't care about min/maxing then they must not care about gear drops is pretty retarded.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
paying for enchants and gems isn't fun either but it seems to be perfectly normal and accepted to gem and enchant and no one would say "OMG loser elitist why u gem and enchant"
Dhalphir on
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BloodshedI smoke my friendsDown to the FilterRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Hmm, I'm not sure if this is the right place for it, but it IS WoW related chat =P
Basically, I'm looking for a guild for my Ally toons, and greatly considering a server transfer.
I've been on Proudmoore since the game released, which is a West Coast server, and I live on the East Coast.
I'm trying to find a guild that raids either very late: After Midnight EST, or in the morning: Anytime between 8am & 3pm EST.
I have an 80 DK, 80 Rogue and a 73 Warr I'm levelling, all DPS. (Yeah...I like melee DPS)
Due to time constraints & being off server time, I've missed out on most of WoW raiding post-Classic.
Did Kara, Mags & Gruul for TBC and so far for WotLK, Naxx 10, Sarth -drakes 10/25 and not much else.
I'd like to get back into raiding and see a lot of the content I've missed, especially the upcoming ICC, which I imagine will take a bit of gearing beforehand.
Anyone who can point me at a decent Guild (Any non-PvP server) that falls into those guidelines would be most appreciated, and to be sure, I am watching the Official Forums and even posted an ad a while back on the MorningRaiders website.
My 80's are Keredain & Kãin (Rogue & DK, respectively) both in moderately decent epics. (TotC/HTotC level)
Thanks,
-Bloodshed-
Note: If there's a better place for me to post this, let me know.
paying for enchants and gems isn't fun either but it seems to be perfectly normal and accepted to gem and enchant and no one would say "OMG loser elitist why u gem and enchant"
And not a lot of people do that.
Also, dropping 30g on a gem is a lot different than dropping 3k to power level mining, or spending a ton of hours grinding the mats yourself.
I'm not saying I disagree that for progression raiding you should absolutely have the best professions to help your character. I'm saying that drawing a link between wanting to grind professions and wanting gear upgrades is weak.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Well I suppose it depends on your goal. Even if I wasn't raiding, I would still grind those professions. Its not fun, but the end result of improving my character is fun, so I do it. People do a lot of things in this game that are not fun in order to enhance the later fun they will get. Example: grinding Sons of Hodir to be able to have shoulder enchants. Doing Argent Tournament dailies every day is not very fun but people do it for the money, which allows you to do fun things with that money.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that, for me, besides raiding, nothing in this game is directly fun for me, but generally everything I do works towards that goal of improving my character for raiding, so I do it to enhance my fun in that area.
if you enjoy improving your character, then working towards levelling a profession is like working towards a gear upgrade. If you want to level Mining to improve your tank characters HP, no one is forcing you to powerlevel it. You could just level it, do a bit every now and then ,and when you get to the end of it, you have a nice chunk of extra HP thats like a gear upgrade you didn't need to hope for luck to get.
Knowing that everyone is in the same boat, if the idea of a guild that supports you while expecting you to min/max every last bit of healing, dps or survivability from your character (up to and including professions) appeals to you, well good, because those guilds exist. They are in the vast minority, but I will concede that there are more likely more of them than there deserve to be. Somewhere, some asshole thinks his guild is "the shit" and it's not.
However, it would shock me to find out these were anything but the vaaast minority.
If such an idea doesn't appeal to you... you don't join that guild. You don't want to put up with those kinds of demands, and the guild doesn't want you if you don't want to goes to those lengths to maximize your effectiveness.
I'm not even sure in my more hardcore of days I would've joined such a guild, but I can understand why they'd exist and the type of mentality/personality that would appeal to some people.
Like in the Twisp & Catsby comic, if you don't see the point, then it's not for you, but can those arguing against it really not see why that kind of dedication wouldn't appeal to some people? Really? Can you not imagine beyond your own playstyle and experiences?
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Anyway, my point is not that if you aren't in a hardcore raiding guild, you should still min-max your professions. However, if you aren't in one, don't go calling the idea of doing it ridiculous, just say you don't understand it and leave it at that, the way I say it about you, because you really do not understand if you are not in such a guild.
@Forar: And it is NOT the most hardcore of hardcore guilds, the most asshole of asshole GMs that ask something like this of their players. I would think you, of all people, would understand this. Expecting raid-compatible professions for main raiding characters is not an unreasonable demand for any guild raiding hard mode content in any fashion. If you join a guild knowing that they ask this, you have no grounds for complaint. And if you aren't joining that guild, it doesn't affect you. And guilds that ask that, or that expect that, are not in the minority among raid guilds. If you asked ANY serious raider "why do you min-max your professions to support raiding", you would probably get a blank stare in response. "Because that's just what you do to maximise your ability." would be the spoken response, and THAT should tell you something.
When I made that argument, note that it was in the context of raiders in a serious raiding guild, not just random people who yes can enjoy getting gear upgrades without dropping herbalism on their rogue or whatever. A semi-casual guild requiring min/max professions would be weird. A progression raiding guild, not so weird.
We currently have this hunter app who is still a skinner. While skinning is a slight DPS increase vs mining or herbalism, it's not a "real" profession because it gives a lot less bonus than jewelcrafting or enchanting or alchemy or leatherworking or blacksmithing. While we didn't deny his application because he had skinning, everyone gives him shit for it when he skins Icehowl, and if we do promote him to a regular member, it really won't be up to him whether he remains a skinner.
I have no problem with people min/maxing the shit out of their characters. I have no problem with bleeding edge progression guilds requiring professions be min/maxed. What I have a problem with is telling people (people in general, not applicants to said guilds) they're playing the game wrong because they don't have the professions you would have chosen for that character.
On the spectrum of fail, "wrong professions" is pretty far down the list.
When I made that argument, note that it was in the context of raiders in a serious raiding guild, not just random people who yes can enjoy getting gear upgrades without dropping herbalism on their rogue or whatever. A semi-casual guild requiring min/max professions would be weird. A progression raiding guild, not so weird.
We currently have this hunter app who is still a skinner. While skinning is a slight DPS increase vs mining or herbalism, it's not a "real" profession because it gives a lot less bonus than jewelcrafting or enchanting or alchemy or leatherworking or blacksmithing. While we didn't deny his application because he had skinning, everyone gives him shit for it when he skins Icehowl, and if we do promote him to a regular member, it really won't be up to him whether he remains a skinner.
Exactly, and this is just how it works. Its not even a point of contention for any raider in a raiding guild. And Riz's guild is far from a hardcore elitist one, just like mine. We do hardmodes but we are not one of the super elite world first guilds either. Several of our raiders recently changed mains in preparation for ICC. One of our enhancement shamans swapped to his holy priest alt, and before even discussing switching mains, he went and dropped mining and herbalism, and levelled up JC and Enchanting. It wasn't even a big controversial thing either, it was just standard practise.
I have no problem with people min/maxing the shit out of their characters. I have no problem with bleeding edge progression guilds requiring professions be min/maxed. What I have a problem with is telling people (people in general, not applicants to said guilds) they're playing the game wrong because they don't have the professions you would have chosen for that character.
On the spectrum of fail, "wrong professions" is pretty far down the list.
In summary: people should join guilds with like-minded people.
Glad we could agree.
In the meantime, someone convince me that resubbing is a bad idea. I know the first thing I would do is drop $60 to move my shaman & warrior to alliance with my other characters.
In summary: people should join guilds with like-minded people.
Glad we could agree.
In the meantime, someone convince me that resubbing is a bad idea. I know the first thing I would do is drop $60 to move my shaman & warrior to alliance with my other characters.
Because you'd drop $60 right off the bat? *shrug*
Cokebotle on
工事中
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
If $60 is a lot of money to you maybe you should hold off since you obviously unsubscribed for a reason to begin with. Or resub and play with other characters for a while to make sure you really want to play.
If $60 is a lot of money to you maybe you should hold off since you obviously unsubscribed for a reason to begin with. Or resub and play with other characters for a while to make sure you really want to play.
If its not a lot of money then go for it.
Don't bring logic into this! ($60 isn't a big deal, I survived the job scare over the summer, yay woo).
I have an army of alts to finish, and leveling the sham/warr would be worth a pile of gold since both have epic flyers already (whereas the priest, hunter, and rogue I've yet to level alliance side do not, bleh). Did they add some heirloom items in 3.2? I loved those things.
*goes off to check 3.2 patch notes*
Bobble on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
i cant remmeber if they were 3.1 or 3.2 but there are more heirlooms in game now
weapons for enhancement shaman, feral druids, etc.
Really, it depends on how you play. There's rarely a time (except for, like, Freya trash) that I wish I still had herbalism on my priest. And the alts I do have gathering professions on, I almost never go and gather anything unless I'm really bored. You tend to make money raiding just by accident. If you're not a raider, then you might want to spend more time on your main gathering, but then those people aren't who we're talking about when we say gathering professions are not allowed.
Raiding involves a bunch of sitting around or waiting that can often be filled with gathering.
A gathering profession on your main lets you gather just incidentally. You don't have to set out to specifically do that. And that leaves you with alot more stuff. Stuff to buy upgrades with or the like.
Raiding involves no downtime. If you're waiting hours for 5 people to log in, you're not really a raiding guild. You're a casual guild that raids when it has the people. We clear Ony 25, TOC25 and TOGC25 on Wednesday night in 4 hours. We usually have 5-10 people on standby in our vent channel if someone has to go. These members receive equal time DKP (5 per hour) for being on standby. We raid from 2000-2200 server, take a 20 minute break, then finish raiding at 0000. Sun/Mon nights are optional Ulduar 25/10 drake runs for cash. We usually have 2-5 people a week paying for drakes. A certain amount is given to each player for coming, and the rest goes to the guild bank. For example, if we carry 2 people through, every member gets 2k and the remaining 14k goes into the gbank. We've had a few times where we carry 5 people through with every member getting 5k and the gbank getting 50k. The cash is the incentive to come to this, but again, it is optional. If you choose not to do this, you raid one night a week for 4 hours and you have the rest of the week to do as you see fit. This will change when ICC drops, but will come back once ICC is put on a one night farm, as we've done in the past with all content.
It probably seems crazy to the type of people that have 13 minutes a week to play WoW, but it's a pretty fucking good deal. I do absolutely no gathering or farming and make about 4k a week. My DK DEs greens/blues I pick up from the daily heroic and while doing argent tourney dailies for seals. There is no real reason to even have a gathering profession. You get a stack of flasks and some stacks of potions every raid reset. Fish Feasts are provided. You have 750G a day allowance for repairs; I'm not even sure you could even kill yourself enough to spend all of that. The guild is generous with this stuff because it expects similar from its members. We also boot people that no post/no show for a week straight, so flame on
It should be noted that the only other guild close to us in progression on our shard has a similar guild bank system, except they raid 5 nights a week performing multiple Ulduar drake runs and they are mandatory.
This week we've had this steady stream of people who haven't had active subscriptions for six to ten months suddenly resubbing and logging on, either due to the free week Blizzard is offering or just deciding to pay for a month again. It's WEIRD.
Really, it depends on how you play. There's rarely a time (except for, like, Freya trash) that I wish I still had herbalism on my priest. And the alts I do have gathering professions on, I almost never go and gather anything unless I'm really bored. You tend to make money raiding just by accident. If you're not a raider, then you might want to spend more time on your main gathering, but then those people aren't who we're talking about when we say gathering professions are not allowed.
Raiding involves a bunch of sitting around or waiting that can often be filled with gathering.
A gathering profession on your main lets you gather just incidentally. You don't have to set out to specifically do that. And that leaves you with alot more stuff. Stuff to buy upgrades with or the like.
Raiding involves no downtime. If you're waiting hours for 5 people to log in, you're not really a raiding guild. You're a casual guild that raids when it has the people.
Wow, how dickish of you.
shryke on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Not really. If you claim to be a raiding guild and spend the majority of your time WAITING to raid, you are not a raiding guild. If you advertised to me as a raiding guild and I joined and then spent 3 hours in front of Ony or ToC for someone to log in, I would be severely pissed.
You don't see how it's not dickish to say "Your not a REAL raiding guild because you don't play the game the way I do"?
Well, I guess I wouldn't expect YOU to....
Not really. If you claim to be a raiding guild and spend the majority of your time WAITING to raid, you are not a raiding guild. If you advertised to me as a raiding guild and I joined and then spent 3 hours in front of Ony or ToC for someone to log in, I would be severely pissed.
I like how it's suddenly become "3 HOURS!!!!!" in your mind.
I didn't say you're not a raiding guild because you don't play like us. I said if you spend most of your time WAITING to raid (aka NOT raiding) then you are not a raiding guild. Spending your time not raiding is time spent not raiding. Hot coffee is hot. Ice cold showers are cold. Other obvious things are obvious.
You don't see how it's not dickish to say "Your not a REAL raiding guild because you don't play the game the way I do"?
Well, I guess I wouldn't expect YOU to....
Not really. If you claim to be a raiding guild and spend the majority of your time WAITING to raid, you are not a raiding guild. If you advertised to me as a raiding guild and I joined and then spent 3 hours in front of Ony or ToC for someone to log in, I would be severely pissed.
I like how it's suddenly become "3 HOURS!!!!!" in your mind.
How long do you wait for the 5 people you are short of for Ony 25? When someone has to leave, you end raids because you don't have people on standby? "Other such things that prevent raiding" consume how much of your raid schedule, each night?
I didn't say you're not a raiding guild because you don't play like us. I said if you spend most of your time WAITING to raid (aka NOT raiding) then you are not a raiding guild. Spending your time not raiding is time spent not raiding. Hot coffee is hot. Ice cold showers are cold. Other obvious things are obvious.
Again, I love how it's become MOST of your time.
Also, most of my time IS spent not raiding. Most of YOURS probably is too, unless you only log in 4 hours a week.
shryke on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
If you are just a bunch of friends sitting around playing soccer and you have to wait for a fourth friend to show up so you can play some 2v2, you aren't a soccer team, you're just a bunch of friends playing soccer.
And don't bother trying to tell me that the sport analogy doesn't apply to WoW because you are completely and categorically wrong about that, it applies and fits perfectly.
edit: you still didn't answer his question. how long do you usually wait past the designated start time for people to log on?
You don't see how it's not dickish to say "Your not a REAL raiding guild because you don't play the game the way I do"?
Well, I guess I wouldn't expect YOU to....
Not really. If you claim to be a raiding guild and spend the majority of your time WAITING to raid, you are not a raiding guild. If you advertised to me as a raiding guild and I joined and then spent 3 hours in front of Ony or ToC for someone to log in, I would be severely pissed.
I like how it's suddenly become "3 HOURS!!!!!" in your mind.
How long do you wait for the 5 people you are short of for Ony 25? When someone has to leave, you end raids because you don't have people on standby? "Other such things that prevent raiding" consume how much of your raid schedule, each night?
So you are saying if you don't have 25 people ready to go you aren't a raiding guild?
Someone should contact all those 10 man raiding guilds...
Posts
I think it's a situation where the guild and the player are suited to each other. If you're a player that won't min/max to that degree, you don't want that guild, and that guild doesn't want you. There are players that do enjoy that kind of hyper-optimization, and enjoy playing with people who do the same.
Expecting someone to 'realistically' name their character like some Tolkien reject is fucking ridiculous, especially considering one of the best druids I knew was named 'Taurenzilla.' Any guild that would require such isn't worth the time to fill out their (undoubtedly lengthy) application.
/s
As captaink just said, it's a situation of a guild suiting a player. There are super hardcore guilds for super hardcore players. There are RP guilds for RP players. There are a lot of guilds out there, and I have good news... you don't have to join them all.
Running instances and getting loot drops is fun. Grinding professions is not fun (for a lot of people). For you min/maxing is fun, but to imply that if someone doesn't care about min/maxing then they must not care about gear drops is pretty retarded.
Basically, I'm looking for a guild for my Ally toons, and greatly considering a server transfer.
I've been on Proudmoore since the game released, which is a West Coast server, and I live on the East Coast.
I'm trying to find a guild that raids either very late: After Midnight EST, or in the morning: Anytime between 8am & 3pm EST.
I have an 80 DK, 80 Rogue and a 73 Warr I'm levelling, all DPS. (Yeah...I like melee DPS)
Due to time constraints & being off server time, I've missed out on most of WoW raiding post-Classic.
Did Kara, Mags & Gruul for TBC and so far for WotLK, Naxx 10, Sarth -drakes 10/25 and not much else.
I'd like to get back into raiding and see a lot of the content I've missed, especially the upcoming ICC, which I imagine will take a bit of gearing beforehand.
Anyone who can point me at a decent Guild (Any non-PvP server) that falls into those guidelines would be most appreciated, and to be sure, I am watching the Official Forums and even posted an ad a while back on the MorningRaiders website.
My 80's are Keredain & Kãin (Rogue & DK, respectively) both in moderately decent epics. (TotC/HTotC level)
Thanks,
-Bloodshed-
Note: If there's a better place for me to post this, let me know.
Battletag: Kain#1658
And not a lot of people do that.
Also, dropping 30g on a gem is a lot different than dropping 3k to power level mining, or spending a ton of hours grinding the mats yourself.
I'm not saying I disagree that for progression raiding you should absolutely have the best professions to help your character. I'm saying that drawing a link between wanting to grind professions and wanting gear upgrades is weak.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that, for me, besides raiding, nothing in this game is directly fun for me, but generally everything I do works towards that goal of improving my character for raiding, so I do it to enhance my fun in that area.
if you enjoy improving your character, then working towards levelling a profession is like working towards a gear upgrade. If you want to level Mining to improve your tank characters HP, no one is forcing you to powerlevel it. You could just level it, do a bit every now and then ,and when you get to the end of it, you have a nice chunk of extra HP thats like a gear upgrade you didn't need to hope for luck to get.
Look, there's a simple litmus test.
Knowing that everyone is in the same boat, if the idea of a guild that supports you while expecting you to min/max every last bit of healing, dps or survivability from your character (up to and including professions) appeals to you, well good, because those guilds exist. They are in the vast minority, but I will concede that there are more likely more of them than there deserve to be. Somewhere, some asshole thinks his guild is "the shit" and it's not.
However, it would shock me to find out these were anything but the vaaast minority.
If such an idea doesn't appeal to you... you don't join that guild. You don't want to put up with those kinds of demands, and the guild doesn't want you if you don't want to goes to those lengths to maximize your effectiveness.
I'm not even sure in my more hardcore of days I would've joined such a guild, but I can understand why they'd exist and the type of mentality/personality that would appeal to some people.
Like in the Twisp & Catsby comic, if you don't see the point, then it's not for you, but can those arguing against it really not see why that kind of dedication wouldn't appeal to some people? Really? Can you not imagine beyond your own playstyle and experiences?
@Forar: And it is NOT the most hardcore of hardcore guilds, the most asshole of asshole GMs that ask something like this of their players. I would think you, of all people, would understand this. Expecting raid-compatible professions for main raiding characters is not an unreasonable demand for any guild raiding hard mode content in any fashion. If you join a guild knowing that they ask this, you have no grounds for complaint. And if you aren't joining that guild, it doesn't affect you. And guilds that ask that, or that expect that, are not in the minority among raid guilds. If you asked ANY serious raider "why do you min-max your professions to support raiding", you would probably get a blank stare in response. "Because that's just what you do to maximise your ability." would be the spoken response, and THAT should tell you something.
We currently have this hunter app who is still a skinner. While skinning is a slight DPS increase vs mining or herbalism, it's not a "real" profession because it gives a lot less bonus than jewelcrafting or enchanting or alchemy or leatherworking or blacksmithing. While we didn't deny his application because he had skinning, everyone gives him shit for it when he skins Icehowl, and if we do promote him to a regular member, it really won't be up to him whether he remains a skinner.
On the spectrum of fail, "wrong professions" is pretty far down the list.
Exactly, and this is just how it works. Its not even a point of contention for any raider in a raiding guild. And Riz's guild is far from a hardcore elitist one, just like mine. We do hardmodes but we are not one of the super elite world first guilds either. Several of our raiders recently changed mains in preparation for ICC. One of our enhancement shamans swapped to his holy priest alt, and before even discussing switching mains, he went and dropped mining and herbalism, and levelled up JC and Enchanting. It wasn't even a big controversial thing either, it was just standard practise.
Glad we could agree.
In the meantime, someone convince me that resubbing is a bad idea. I know the first thing I would do is drop $60 to move my shaman & warrior to alliance with my other characters.
Because you'd drop $60 right off the bat? *shrug*
If its not a lot of money then go for it.
Don't bring logic into this! ($60 isn't a big deal, I survived the job scare over the summer, yay woo).
I have an army of alts to finish, and leveling the sham/warr would be worth a pile of gold since both have epic flyers already (whereas the priest, hunter, and rogue I've yet to level alliance side do not, bleh). Did they add some heirloom items in 3.2? I loved those things.
*goes off to check 3.2 patch notes*
weapons for enhancement shaman, feral druids, etc.
Yes. Along with the extra set of weapons too.
Raiding involves no downtime. If you're waiting hours for 5 people to log in, you're not really a raiding guild. You're a casual guild that raids when it has the people. We clear Ony 25, TOC25 and TOGC25 on Wednesday night in 4 hours. We usually have 5-10 people on standby in our vent channel if someone has to go. These members receive equal time DKP (5 per hour) for being on standby. We raid from 2000-2200 server, take a 20 minute break, then finish raiding at 0000. Sun/Mon nights are optional Ulduar 25/10 drake runs for cash. We usually have 2-5 people a week paying for drakes. A certain amount is given to each player for coming, and the rest goes to the guild bank. For example, if we carry 2 people through, every member gets 2k and the remaining 14k goes into the gbank. We've had a few times where we carry 5 people through with every member getting 5k and the gbank getting 50k. The cash is the incentive to come to this, but again, it is optional. If you choose not to do this, you raid one night a week for 4 hours and you have the rest of the week to do as you see fit. This will change when ICC drops, but will come back once ICC is put on a one night farm, as we've done in the past with all content.
It probably seems crazy to the type of people that have 13 minutes a week to play WoW, but it's a pretty fucking good deal. I do absolutely no gathering or farming and make about 4k a week. My DK DEs greens/blues I pick up from the daily heroic and while doing argent tourney dailies for seals. There is no real reason to even have a gathering profession. You get a stack of flasks and some stacks of potions every raid reset. Fish Feasts are provided. You have 750G a day allowance for repairs; I'm not even sure you could even kill yourself enough to spend all of that. The guild is generous with this stuff because it expects similar from its members. We also boot people that no post/no show for a week straight, so flame on
It should be noted that the only other guild close to us in progression on our shard has a similar guild bank system, except they raid 5 nights a week performing multiple Ulduar drake runs and they are mandatory.
I kid.
Mostly.
This week we've had this steady stream of people who haven't had active subscriptions for six to ten months suddenly resubbing and logging on, either due to the free week Blizzard is offering or just deciding to pay for a month again. It's WEIRD.
Wow, how dickish of you.
I do see how its completely true though.
You don't see how it's not dickish to say "Your not a REAL raiding guild because you don't play the game the way I do"?
Well, I guess I wouldn't expect YOU to....
I like how it's suddenly become "3 HOURS!!!!!" in your mind.
How long do you wait for the 5 people you are short of for Ony 25? When someone has to leave, you end raids because you don't have people on standby? "Other such things that prevent raiding" consume how much of your raid schedule, each night?
Again, I love how it's become MOST of your time.
Also, most of my time IS spent not raiding. Most of YOURS probably is too, unless you only log in 4 hours a week.
And don't bother trying to tell me that the sport analogy doesn't apply to WoW because you are completely and categorically wrong about that, it applies and fits perfectly.
edit: you still didn't answer his question. how long do you usually wait past the designated start time for people to log on?
So you are saying if you don't have 25 people ready to go you aren't a raiding guild?
Someone should contact all those 10 man raiding guilds...