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[WoW] Rouges: OP not outdated; just lackluster. Sort of like Cat Druids
Senshi
BALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered User regular
BALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered User regular
YO WHAT UP B ROUGE THREAD REPRESENT
Rogues: We do Combo Points better than Druids
Basic Information
So what's a "Rouge" anyway?
What flavors do your Rogues come in?
Rogues come in three flavors: Assassination, Combat, and Subtlety. Assassination rogues focus on high single target damage through strong poisons and absolutely devastating finishers. Combat rogues give up some of the high single target damage for more flexibility and survivability, while focusing on slightly bigger weapons. Subtlety rogues basically dick around in the shadows being assholes while they abuse bugged talents (okay, they don't do it anymore, but they totally used to). See the in-depth list of flavors below for more information.
IKEA shipped my Rogue and I don't understand these fucking instructions. What gives?
In-depth information for the Progue (see, a Pro Rogue, a Progue, get it?)
Specs
Assassination
Assassination focuses on daggers, poisons and hitting ridiculously hard. Assassination rogues learn Mutilate as their spec-defining ability at level 10, and their Mastery increases the damage of their poisons. Assassination talents do fun things like make you generate an extra Combo Point if your attack crits, or make your primary finishers refresh Slice and Dice for free. Envenom, being one of said finishers, will scale not only to the amount of Combo Points on the target, but also to the number of stacks of Deadly Poison currently applied.
Cons of Assassination include difficulty to maintain control over how many Combo Points are on your target and relatively boring cooldowns alongside poor AoE capabilities. Using Mutilate, you'll only be getting 5 combo points on a target if you luck out and crit with one of your Mutilates, so get accustomed to using 4-point finishers.
[url=]Assassination (DURR/HURR/HURR)[/url] Spec coming soon!
Combat
Combat focuses on quantity over quality, spreading damage out into innumerable amounts of hits. Combat rogues learn Blade Flurry as their spec-defining ability at level 10, and their mastery will generate bonus off-hand attacks. Combat rogues enjoy the luxury of higher energy regeneration and being able to spread their damage out over several targets at once—some of these effects come from talents, others from powerful cooldowns. The cooldowns are designed so as to be equally effective on one or several mobs at a time, especially if used all at once.
Cons of Combat include more finishers to juggle and significantly less poison damage. A lot of your damage will be coming from white hits, which unlike poison damage, is mitigated by armor.
[url=]Combat (HURR/DURR/HURR)[/url] Spec coming soon!
Subtlety
I'll be honest, I have no fucking clue how Sublety rogues work. I guess they like shadows and shit, and you sort of have to be a douche to play one if you look at the talents. I mean, they're all troll talents. Shadowstep? More like LOLITROLLU, amirite? So yeah, Subtlety rogues: sneaky douchebags with ridiculous talents and rage-inducing abilities.
Sounds like the perfect PvP tree.
[url=]Subtlety (HERP/FUCKING/DERP)[/url] Spec coming soon!
L2P
Assassination Rogues i have no fucking idea.
Combat Rogues not here either. specifically, that is.
Generally speaking, try to stay alive and take the load off your healers as much as you possibly can. Avoid as much raid damage as you can, as your damage mitigation won't be too impressive to begin with, and a dead rogue does 0 DPS. On fights with nova-like abilities, you'll often be able to use Feint or Cloak of Shadows to reduce (or completely negate) the damage, making the healers want to go down on you. Sure, it's a minor DPS loss (it's prudent to mention that so is running out of the nova's range and then running back), but if you wipe to an enrage timer because you DIED early on in the fight, you're stupid. You won't wipe to an enrage if you Feint now and then, and like I said, healers will love you. Always give the healers a good reason to love you. Always, always, always Tricks the tank unless you've got an equally good rogue who you can swap tricks with for the additional 15% damage. Be careful to time this right, though, as often the additional threat from another rogue will pull aggro and get one of you killed. Can't say how many times I've killed other rogues who thought they were ready for this (quite frankly not so advanced) strategy. If you want to play it safe, use Tricks of the Trade on the tank. They'll thank you, especially on fights where a fair amount of maneuvering is required and there's always some dumbfuck mage who starts spamming Arcane Barrage immediately, or whatever the fuck it is they do.
Rule of thumb: stay behind things. Stay behind the mob, and stay behind the tank on the threat meter. Oh and watch out for the tail, or else whelp groups, fifty DKP minus, fucking forsythe run to the center, etc.
Gearing
>implying i know fuck all about cataclysm rogue gearing
>implying i'm gonna write this before the majority of players start raiding
>implying implications
Rogues: We do Combo Points better than Druids
Basic Information
So what's a "Rouge" anyway?
As forced and horribly clichéd as that sounds, Blizzard's pretty right on the money. Rogues are the best (seriously, man) melee DPS class played exclusively by cool people with lots of friends and at least two girlfriends. If you play a rogue, you are popular, but have enough sense to keep it tasteful and discreet—which is good, because rogues like to remain unseen.Battle.net wrote:For rogues, the only code is the contract, and their honor is purchased in gold. Free from the constraints of a conscience, these mercenaries rely on brutal and efficient tactics. Lethal assassins and masters of stealth, they will approach their marks from behind, piercing a vital organ and vanishing into the shadows before the victim hits the ground.
What flavors do your Rogues come in?
Rogues come in three flavors: Assassination, Combat, and Subtlety. Assassination rogues focus on high single target damage through strong poisons and absolutely devastating finishers. Combat rogues give up some of the high single target damage for more flexibility and survivability, while focusing on slightly bigger weapons. Subtlety rogues basically dick around in the shadows being assholes while they abuse bugged talents (okay, they don't do it anymore, but they totally used to). See the in-depth list of flavors below for more information.
IKEA shipped my Rogue and I don't understand these fucking instructions. What gives?
So the idea is that rogues have several special abilities and traits that set them apart from other, inferior classes. The ability to Stealth and move around unseen is the primary, class-defining skill that rogues possess. For attacking, rogues utilize the Combo Point system, where you have two types of attacks: Combo Builders and Finishers. Combo Builders (such as Sinister Strike and Mutilate) will add one or several Combo Points to the target, whereas Finishers will consume said Combo Points, scaling the effect of the finishers to the amount of Combo Points consumed. You can have up to five Combo Points on a target, and they will not automatically carry over should you change targets.Battle.net wrote:Rogues often initiate combat with a surprise attack from the shadows, leading with vicious melee strikes. When in protracted battles, they utilize a successive combination of carefully chosen attacks to soften the enemy up for a killing blow. Rogues must take special care when selecting targets so that their combo attacks are not wasted, and they must be conscious of when to hide or flee if a battle turns against them.
In-depth information for the Progue (see, a Pro Rogue, a Progue, get it?)
Specs
Assassination
Assassination focuses on daggers, poisons and hitting ridiculously hard. Assassination rogues learn Mutilate as their spec-defining ability at level 10, and their Mastery increases the damage of their poisons. Assassination talents do fun things like make you generate an extra Combo Point if your attack crits, or make your primary finishers refresh Slice and Dice for free. Envenom, being one of said finishers, will scale not only to the amount of Combo Points on the target, but also to the number of stacks of Deadly Poison currently applied.
Cons of Assassination include difficulty to maintain control over how many Combo Points are on your target and relatively boring cooldowns alongside poor AoE capabilities. Using Mutilate, you'll only be getting 5 combo points on a target if you luck out and crit with one of your Mutilates, so get accustomed to using 4-point finishers.
[url=]Assassination (DURR/HURR/HURR)[/url] Spec coming soon!
Combat
Combat focuses on quantity over quality, spreading damage out into innumerable amounts of hits. Combat rogues learn Blade Flurry as their spec-defining ability at level 10, and their mastery will generate bonus off-hand attacks. Combat rogues enjoy the luxury of higher energy regeneration and being able to spread their damage out over several targets at once—some of these effects come from talents, others from powerful cooldowns. The cooldowns are designed so as to be equally effective on one or several mobs at a time, especially if used all at once.
Cons of Combat include more finishers to juggle and significantly less poison damage. A lot of your damage will be coming from white hits, which unlike poison damage, is mitigated by armor.
[url=]Combat (HURR/DURR/HURR)[/url] Spec coming soon!
Subtlety
I'll be honest, I have no fucking clue how Sublety rogues work. I guess they like shadows and shit, and you sort of have to be a douche to play one if you look at the talents. I mean, they're all troll talents. Shadowstep? More like LOLITROLLU, amirite? So yeah, Subtlety rogues: sneaky douchebags with ridiculous talents and rage-inducing abilities.
Sounds like the perfect PvP tree.
[url=]Subtlety (HERP/FUCKING/DERP)[/url] Spec coming soon!
L2P
Assassination Rogues i have no fucking idea.
Combat Rogues not here either. specifically, that is.
Generally speaking, try to stay alive and take the load off your healers as much as you possibly can. Avoid as much raid damage as you can, as your damage mitigation won't be too impressive to begin with, and a dead rogue does 0 DPS. On fights with nova-like abilities, you'll often be able to use Feint or Cloak of Shadows to reduce (or completely negate) the damage, making the healers want to go down on you. Sure, it's a minor DPS loss (it's prudent to mention that so is running out of the nova's range and then running back), but if you wipe to an enrage timer because you DIED early on in the fight, you're stupid. You won't wipe to an enrage if you Feint now and then, and like I said, healers will love you. Always give the healers a good reason to love you. Always, always, always Tricks the tank unless you've got an equally good rogue who you can swap tricks with for the additional 15% damage. Be careful to time this right, though, as often the additional threat from another rogue will pull aggro and get one of you killed. Can't say how many times I've killed other rogues who thought they were ready for this (quite frankly not so advanced) strategy. If you want to play it safe, use Tricks of the Trade on the tank. They'll thank you, especially on fights where a fair amount of maneuvering is required and there's always some dumbfuck mage who starts spamming Arcane Barrage immediately, or whatever the fuck it is they do.
Rule of thumb: stay behind things. Stay behind the mob, and stay behind the tank on the threat meter. Oh and watch out for the tail, or else whelp groups, fifty DKP minus, fucking forsythe run to the center, etc.
Gearing
>implying i know fuck all about cataclysm rogue gearing
>implying i'm gonna write this before the majority of players start raiding
>implying implications
Senshi on
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Those poison changes are just insane though. Their 'fix' for weapon swapping, but the increase in Deadly Poison procs just increases the damage.
buy warhams
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
I had a Troll Rogue, now he is a dwarf.
Troll rogues are awkward. They remind me of Paul, Kevin Arnold's friend from the Wonder Years.
buy warhams
And not one rouge
When did we manage to get X-Box Live on voice to text here?
wait wait
envenom used to work with stormstrike? for real?
Edit: To actually contribute to the thread, I can't wait for 3.3. Those assassination changes are shit hot.
Back in Kharazan days I know it did for sure. I really pissed off my enhancement buddy.
But then again I was running @ 30% of the DPS in our 10 mans. So he was forced to deal
I won.
Also, that poison change is fucking nuts.
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It's in the OP
Also finally getting a good fast OH (25-man ToC OH) makes me a happy Rogue.
FFBE: 838,975,107
Dokkan: 1668363315
The Stygian Bladebreaker? I just got mine last weekend.
It's taaasty.
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I'm doing combat daggers now, cause I had 2 Ced's carvers and I remember running 5mans and a few Kara/gruul/mags as that with my friends guild. Turns out I had a sword, fist weapon, and mace of similar quality in my bank.
NOt that it really matters until 80 anyway. Especially since I'm leveling with my wife's mage, things barely live long enough to get a hit in.
I feel so awkward. I used to be half decent at roguing.
Going from combat to Mutilate was tricky. I am used to a straight forward rotation that never changes really. SS > SnD > SS > Rupture > SS > Evis. But, I think I am finally getting the hang of it. Started to gem for Armor Pen now since we have a dps warrior keeping up sunders when I can at least bring the rogue in for a raid.
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhxcoeMoirsMzZ0xZebfb0hdb:TkicVm
That's pretty standard. You can drop Find Weakness for Focused Attacks. Or you can drop a few points to pick up Master Poisoner if you're having a hard time burning through plate. You'll have to put deadly poison on and start abusing those fat envenom crits. It's a razor's edge and all up to preference, really.
The Vigor glyph is also not really all that awesome. It's all up to preference.
For poisons I tend to run Wound/Mind Numbing. Elemental shamanses are so fun to kill.
So, yeah, basically. Gouge is too useful for getting someone out of your face briefly so you can burn down their friend, or just stopping their cast.
I'm seriously hopeless at PvP, although I'd like to get a shot at it in for shits and giggles, especially considering I have a dual-specced rogue currently specced into sub-optimal PvE and optimal PvE. Might as well go PvP and PvE instead, right?
If the target is a squishy caster, I'll try to stunlock them from full to dead. Obviously this is easiest/only possible without outside interference. Non-demonology warlocks (rare), holy priests, mages, elemental or resto shaman, resto/boomkin druids all go here. I like to open with garrote for the little extra damage and the silence instead of a stun, for the purposed of DR.
If it's another rogue getting a rupture up is very important. Use the trinket on Kidney Shot if it's going to be a big one. Dismantle them when your stunlock runs out. You can dismantle them if they dismantle you, which is a nice way to have nothing happen for a little while.
Warriors you want to keep from hitting you a lot (obviously). If they're PvProt then evasion isn't a bad idea at all. If they're arms, dismantle and bleeds/deadly poison/envenom are your best bet. Don't be too afraid to stun them, especially if you're hurting. Stunlocks can often lead to kills against warrior if you've softened them up before.
Fuck ret paladins. As one of the ret pallies in the Beasts puts it, a rogue's best chance is to blind them and hope they wander off a cliff.
DKs are also annoying, but less so. Evasion is beautiful. I tend to open with cheap shot, then kidney, then dismantle, then evasion, then vanish to cheap shot, then pop Prep if it's up.
Basically I always try to have a cooldown on me or them to keep from being eaten alive.
Mut, KS, Rupture, Evis, Kick, Deadly Throw, Cheap Shot, Garrote.
Envenom is only worthwhile against high armour targets. You can burn blind to buy the time needed to get the poison on your weapon if you didn't have time to beforehand.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778