As for Recuperate, since it's based off of a percentage of max total health, it starts off shitty and becomes good as your gear improves. Initially it's pretty shit, actually. But at 82 in heroic ICC loot and the rare quest reward upgrade it was ticking for 2k every 3 seconds. Not too shabby
I guess they do have an "option" then, in a very loose sense of the word. But generally hunters are as helpless as rogues in the way of getting themselves some health back. They're just helpless at 30+ yards.
Plus why should I drop 1k dps to heal myself when shadow priests (vamp - group heal), pallies (Divine storm - group heal) and DKs (blood presence - not sure if this is sustained in presence switch around in cata) for example, get it for free.
The self-healing from DS will probably not be worthwhile in single target fights in Cataclysm. DK self healing is up in the air with Frost being the DPS presence, but right now the self healing from Blood Presence is minor. Fallen Crusader procs actually account for more healing than Blood Presence, that I've seen. Now, the two in combination end up being a reasonable amount of self-healing over the length of a fight, but Recuperation would definitely give more healing in the window of its duration, which would be better in a fight with a "everyone blow survival cooldowns for this 15-second phase" mechanic.
I don't see why anyone is complaining about Recuperation. It's another ability that has obvious uses and lets rogues do something they basically had no capacity to do before. It's too early to cry about how it will affect you in progression raiding.
Re: First Aid. They're changing the application mechanic in Cataclysm so that you won't have to sit and channel, taking yourself out of the fight for almost 10 seconds. Maybe the new HoT style bandages will give first aid more use.
Making first aid a HoT would go a long way to making it useful. Even better if they either make stronger bandages or lower the debuff.
That's what they are doing, actually. Instead of channeling First Aid will now have a cast time and put on the appropriate HoT, depending on the bandage used.
Hunters will have self-healing with Chimera Shot from one of the venoms.
That's talented though.
The thing is, they're making leveling a more convenient experience. Rogues and warriors have healing skills at a base line now. Rogues learn it at 12, warriors learn it at like level 5 or some shit.
Hunters don't necessarily need a heal in this manner because technically their pets are the ones taking the damage on the leveling course (unless something goes wrong, but generally speaking this is true). So Hunters have Mend Pet. This is their convenience for leveling.
How would you stay around the +hit rating with the tier 10 set? I really don't want to gem it with hit but it seems I have no choice
My rogue is at 9% and change for hit
9% including precision or without? Including you are over the poison hit cap.
Shoulders have hit + the offset chest has hit (wonderous sack) or the off piece for legs for mutilate have hit (gangrenous leggings) and the rep ring should be enough.
I'm inching up on 80 (77 now). I'll have fast daggers for my PvE spec (mutilate). And probably one on my main hand for PvP (ambush/backstab). Is there any reason to try and get a slow offhand for Subtlety PvP?
I was PvP mutilate for a while but, taking into account that I suck at PvP, I had a lot of trouble taking down anyone with a respectable amount of resilience. Switched to subtlety and I am now a killing machine once per minute.
I was PvP mutilate for a while but, taking into account that I suck at PvP, I had a lot of trouble taking down anyone with a respectable amount of resilience. Switched to subtlety and I am now a killing machine once per minute.
Subtlety is glorious when you find that mage-with-12k-health-and-no-resilience.
I also find I use shadow dance defensively as often as offensively. The sheer number of cheap shots you can throw out is pretty impressive.
I was PvP mutilate for a while but, taking into account that I suck at PvP, I had a lot of trouble taking down anyone with a respectable amount of resilience. Switched to subtlety and I am now a killing machine once per minute.
I did go ahead and respec my PvP to Subtlety... instead of taking the Shadow Dance glyph though, I just kept the Ambush glyph. I'm thinking the extra yardage may help to catch someone given server lag and all, and then they'll be Waylaid so...
I am curious though, do you keep moving though people to get behind them and use Backstab all the time or do you just use Hemo as a main combo point builder? Obviously after the initial Ambush, you'd want to Hemo once to get the damage buff up, but after that is what I'm curious about.
I was trying to remember why that strikes me as an odd question... but back in BC, my Subtlety PvP build used maces... so I didn't have to worry about Backstabs or Ambushes because I couldn't do them.
I'm also fairly sure I'm going to have to adjust some of my stealth macros to include Shadow Dance, since apparently it's Stance:2?
Hah I don't even have backstab or ambush on my bars... possibly having to do with my pvp spec being subtlety up to shadowstep then whatever was useful in the other trees and the fact that I'm using my pve axes
Hmm... AV wasn't such a good test for my Sub PvP spec. That's what I got for my random today... however won which was a surprise. Afterwards I went over into WG to finish the weekly quest where you kill elementals, just stayed in my PvP spec/gear for the heck of it. Even with my PvP gear I was wrecking those elites with an Ambush, Hemo spam and Eviscerates, so I decided to see what I could do with my PvE gear but my daggers. Seemed fairly good, so I got Berserking on my extra Unsharpened Ice Razor and queued up for a random dungeon.
Unfortunately I got CoS, wasn't able to stealth often, but I still did fairly well. Pulled 3.5k on most of the bosses and I was screwing up quite a bit in that I wasn't using my Hemo often enough to keep the debuff up... or at all, until late actually, I had forgotten about it. The combo point generation was pretty good overall. Couldn't decide if I should try keeping both SnD and Rupture up or not, because when I was, I usually wasn't getting time to Eviscerate. But eh, it was kind of neat. I think lack of a passive energy recovery boost hurt more than anything.
Dear fucking god, why are Horde on Cyclone so fucking terrible at PvP? Just spent EotS, AB and then WSG getting fucking *destroyed* by the Alliance teams. They weren't even premades from the same server, they just worked together way too well.
Not sure how I like the Subtlety spec as it's hard for me to determine if our teams were bad or their teams were really good or what the fuck was going on. But god damn I'm irritated. Didn't really feel like I could do much of anything.
Also, fuuuuuuuck Frost Mages. *That's* who I should've gotten a PvP set together for...
Dear fucking god, why are Horde on Cyclone so fucking terrible at PvP? Just spent EotS, AB and then WSG getting fucking *destroyed* by the Alliance teams. They weren't even premades from the same server, they just worked together way too well.
Not sure how I like the Subtlety spec as it's hard for me to determine if our teams were bad or their teams were really good or what the fuck was going on. But god damn I'm irritated. Didn't really feel like I could do much of anything.
Also, fuuuuuuuck Frost Mages. *That's* who I should've gotten a PvP set together for...
Interesting, I'm in Cyclone Alliance and the Horde were dominating Isle of Conquest 70-79 yesterday and had at least a 50% win ratio for 70-79 Strand of the Ancients last weekend. I did AV 60-69 on its weekend and the Alliance wasn't winning anywhere near as much as they used to, nor as quickly.
Here's a hint: for those three bgs at least, the alliance try the same strategy every. single. game. This makes it pretty easy for a fairly small number of horde to destroy them, since alliance also tends to fall apart if that strategy is delayed or stopped. I haven't done any at 80 in forever, though, but since my rogue just hit 80 last night we will see.
I'm finding Subtlety pretty awesome at killing single targets in bgs and ninja'ing objectives, or guarding flags / vehicles (go go stunlock). It helps to have other players act as a distraction.
At any rate I haven't had a chance to test the killing single targets lately, but in out and out melee it's... awkward. It can be difficult to be sure you're at someone's back with a bunch of effects and such obscuring things... and sometimes you *are* at someone's back and the server tells you you aren't.
Not sure if it's worth it...
Dranyth on
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
You should only ever PvP as Subtlety if you live next to one of the server clusters.
It's *really* unfortunate, because I miss Shadowstep. Though last night in being fucking raped in three BGs, I either forgot to Shadowstep, or the times I did remember it, I couldn't because I was Deep Freezed or otherwise rooted. I forgot about that nerf... and honestly, that's one of the main reasons I loved Shadowstep, the mobility factor.
but subtlety is so much fun and once you start playing about controlling the fight instead of trying to one shot someone it's much more effective. I love raping in BGs and catching people off guard and confused by me not being mut/prep in arenas
9% including precision or without? Including you are over the poison hit cap.
Shoulders have hit + the offset chest has hit (wonderous sack) or the off piece for legs for mutilate have hit (gangrenous leggings) and the rep ring should be enough.
I am combat daggers:rotate: I have precision. I now have the necklace but should I put a 20 hit gem or what in it?
Checking out the Rogue talent trees, I'm really liking what I see in Assassination so far. Though the change to Murderous Intent seems odd, unless because of it, you'd switch from Mutilate to Backstab below 35% in a boss cycle? Hmm...
Edit: Oh god, they added Backstab to Waylay? That should be pretty vicious in PvP.
Checking out the Rogue talent trees, I'm really liking what I see in Assassination so far. Though the change to Murderous Intent seems odd, unless because of it, you'd switch from Mutilate to Backstab below 35% in a boss cycle? Hmm...
Edit: Oh god, they added Backstab to Waylay? That should be pretty vicious in PvP.
Posts
Hunters will have self-healing with Chimera Shot from one of the venoms.
They want to make leveling a bit more streamlined so they will give everyone the option of self healing either in or out of combat.
Making first aid a HoT would go a long way to making it useful. Even better if they either make stronger bandages or lower the debuff.
Still breaks on damage, though.
That's talented though.
The thing is, they're making leveling a more convenient experience. Rogues and warriors have healing skills at a base line now. Rogues learn it at 12, warriors learn it at like level 5 or some shit.
Hunters don't necessarily need a heal in this manner because technically their pets are the ones taking the damage on the leveling course (unless something goes wrong, but generally speaking this is true). So Hunters have Mend Pet. This is their convenience for leveling.
My rogue is at 9% and change for hit
Shoulders have hit + the offset chest has hit (wonderous sack) or the off piece for legs for mutilate have hit (gangrenous leggings) and the rep ring should be enough.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Just BGs/Wintergrasp, no arenas.
I'm still fairly tempted to try that deep Subtlety build since I miss Shadowstep...
Subtlety is glorious when you find that mage-with-12k-health-and-no-resilience.
I also find I use shadow dance defensively as often as offensively. The sheer number of cheap shots you can throw out is pretty impressive.
I did go ahead and respec my PvP to Subtlety... instead of taking the Shadow Dance glyph though, I just kept the Ambush glyph. I'm thinking the extra yardage may help to catch someone given server lag and all, and then they'll be Waylaid so...
I am curious though, do you keep moving though people to get behind them and use Backstab all the time or do you just use Hemo as a main combo point builder? Obviously after the initial Ambush, you'd want to Hemo once to get the damage buff up, but after that is what I'm curious about.
I was trying to remember why that strikes me as an odd question... but back in BC, my Subtlety PvP build used maces... so I didn't have to worry about Backstabs or Ambushes because I couldn't do them.
I'm also fairly sure I'm going to have to adjust some of my stealth macros to include Shadow Dance, since apparently it's Stance:2?
Hemo is almost never worth the damage.
EDIT: And then proceed to do it another four times.
But seriously, killing clothies as a rogue is a really close second. Or killing everything like they were clothies near the end of Vanilla as a Rogue.
Unfortunately I got CoS, wasn't able to stealth often, but I still did fairly well. Pulled 3.5k on most of the bosses and I was screwing up quite a bit in that I wasn't using my Hemo often enough to keep the debuff up... or at all, until late actually, I had forgotten about it. The combo point generation was pretty good overall. Couldn't decide if I should try keeping both SnD and Rupture up or not, because when I was, I usually wasn't getting time to Eviscerate. But eh, it was kind of neat. I think lack of a passive energy recovery boost hurt more than anything.
Not sure how I like the Subtlety spec as it's hard for me to determine if our teams were bad or their teams were really good or what the fuck was going on. But god damn I'm irritated. Didn't really feel like I could do much of anything.
Also, fuuuuuuuck Frost Mages. *That's* who I should've gotten a PvP set together for...
Interesting, I'm in Cyclone Alliance and the Horde were dominating Isle of Conquest 70-79 yesterday and had at least a 50% win ratio for 70-79 Strand of the Ancients last weekend. I did AV 60-69 on its weekend and the Alliance wasn't winning anywhere near as much as they used to, nor as quickly.
Here's a hint: for those three bgs at least, the alliance try the same strategy every. single. game. This makes it pretty easy for a fairly small number of horde to destroy them, since alliance also tends to fall apart if that strategy is delayed or stopped. I haven't done any at 80 in forever, though, but since my rogue just hit 80 last night we will see.
I'm finding Subtlety pretty awesome at killing single targets in bgs and ninja'ing objectives, or guarding flags / vehicles (go go stunlock). It helps to have other players act as a distraction.
At any rate I haven't had a chance to test the killing single targets lately, but in out and out melee it's... awkward. It can be difficult to be sure you're at someone's back with a bunch of effects and such obscuring things... and sometimes you *are* at someone's back and the server tells you you aren't.
Not sure if it's worth it...
Maybe it's just time to go back to Mut. Bah.
I know I don't use nearly the abilities I have available, but eh...
I am combat daggers:rotate: I have precision. I now have the necklace but should I put a 20 hit gem or what in it?
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
My night elf rouge in question
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Edit: Oh god, they added Backstab to Waylay? That should be pretty vicious in PvP.
Waylay is already Ambush/Backstab