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[WoW] Rouges: OP not outdated; just lackluster. Sort of like Cat Druids

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Posts

  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, you're right. I guess I just haven't played in my Sub PvP spec frequently enough yet. Hell, I guess I don't need Crippling Poison...

    Dranyth on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    You still need crippling poison. 50% Sucks. Its just nice to have.

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • TomantaTomanta Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    crippling + fan of knives can also be fun.

    Tomanta on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Brainleech wrote: »
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    9% including precision or without? Including you are over the poison hit cap.

    Shoulders have hit + the offset chest has hit (wonderous sack) or the off piece for legs for mutilate have hit (gangrenous leggings) and the rep ring should be enough.


    I am combat daggers:rotate: I have precision. I now have the necklace but should I put a 20 hit gem or what in it?

    Combat daggers hasn't been good since vanilla or even viable since BC. If you are just playing for enjoyment and not min/max then have fun. :D

    Smrtnik on
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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Tomanta wrote: »
    crippling + fan of knives can also be fun.


    In Cata you will need an Assassination talent to have poisons from your mh/oh apply to your fan of knives.

    Smrtnik on
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  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So hey, I'm making a little blood elf rogue so I can have a second horde character on the same server as my main. I've got the heirloom chest, pvp shoulders and every 1h weapon.
    I know combat is pretty much the face roll spec for leveling, but if I wanted to use daggers, what sort of spec would I be looking at?

    Rizzi on
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Rizzi wrote: »
    So hey, I'm making a little blood elf rogue so I can have a second horde character on the same server as my main. I've got the heirloom chest, pvp shoulders and every 1h weapon.
    I know combat is pretty much the face roll spec for leveling, but if I wanted to use daggers, what sort of spec would I be looking at?

    I'd say sub just because stuff tends to die so fast while leveling.

    Course I'd also say why bother leveling now, but that's just me.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
  • RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Well I figured Cataclysm is still at least 4 or 5 months away, and I don't really want to make a Goblin or a Worgen..

    Rizzi on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    crippling + fan of knives can also be fun.


    In Cata you will need an Assassination talent to have poisons from your mh/oh apply to your fan of knives.
    That blows. So much for having our combat rogue slow down Valks/Beasts/etc.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    forty wrote: »
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    crippling + fan of knives can also be fun.


    In Cata you will need an Assassination talent to have poisons from your mh/oh apply to your fan of knives.
    That blows. So much for having our combat rogue slow down Valks/Beasts/etc.

    Combat is getting a 40% chance on hit to daze.

    Oats on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    That's pretty well useless compared to being able to snare a bunch of shit around you with one FoK + 100% crippling proc.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    I guess now you'll need your Ass. Rogues to do it?

    Dranyth on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Tomanta wrote: »
    crippling + fan of knives can also be fun.


    In Cata you will need an Assassination talent to have poisons from your mh/oh apply to your fan of knives.

    What smrtnik didn't mention, is that FoK will still apply the poison you apply to your throwing weapon. So in fact it will be 100% better, since you can still have your regular poisons on your melee weapons and crippling on your throwing weapon.

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Oh, that's awesome. I forgot they mentioned that you can poison your throwing weapon now, and I didn't realize (but it makes sense) that they would make FoK work off of that.

    That's pretty slick. You can put instant or wound on it for trash, then switch to crippling for mechanics that would warrant it.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yea, without the improved poisons talent, I guess we will be seeing a switch back to wound poison for sub and combat specs. I can't remember if improved poisons was in the assassination level 10 thing, it would make sense though, or else instant would be very useless. (At the current AP bonus to poisons instant needs 4 points in improved poisons to make it better than wound)

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Blade Flurry is now on a 30 second cooldown and requires no energy, but reduces energy generation by 20% while active

    Javen on
  • interrobanginterrobang kawaii as  hellRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Javen wrote: »
    Blade Flurry is now on a 30 second cooldown and requires no energy, but reduces energy generation by 20% while active

    This is awesome.

    interrobang on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    Yea, without the improved poisons talent, I guess we will be seeing a switch back to wound poison for sub and combat specs. I can't remember if improved poisons was in the assassination level 10 thing, it would make sense though, or else instant would be very useless. (At the current AP bonus to poisons instant needs 4 points in improved poisons to make it better than wound)
    Yeah, the current effect of 5/5 imp poisons is currently one of the assassination bonuses.

    I knew Blade Flurry had been changed to a 30-second cooldown from some trade chatter in Dalaran, but I didn't hear the rest of the mechanic changes behind it. That's pretty cool, though. Combat can pretty much choose to go into "cleave mode" at will.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also expose armor now has a 50 second duration at 5 combo points. Should make keeping it up much easier if a Warrior isn't present, especially with the talent in assassination

    Javen on
  • initiatefailureinitiatefailure Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Well damn, I might have to find a spot on my bar for it now

    initiatefailure on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So no more focused attacks in assassination?

    That's a lot of energy regen disappearing.

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    So no more focused attacks in assassination?

    That's a lot of energy regen disappearing.

    They changed that talent that does nature damage everytime your bleed ticks to also give you energy. 3 I think? Still a net loss, but it softens the blow

    Javen on
  • KagliciousKaglicious Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So assassination is getting less energy regen and loses the dual weild specialisation to combat because of the new talent overhaul, but gains a larger energy pool and dagger damage is buffed through assassin's resolve.

    God I want in the beta to try this shit out :(

    Kaglicious on
  • OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's all going to change so many times.

    I just hope Sub doesn't have to pay too high a DPS price for its utility.

    Oats on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yeah, I wouldn't fall in love with any talents quite yet. Most of them are going to be one big sweeping change after another

    Javen on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Javen wrote: »
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    So no more focused attacks in assassination?

    That's a lot of energy regen disappearing.

    They changed that talent that does nature damage everytime your bleed ticks to also give you energy. 3 I think? Still a net loss, but it softens the blow

    Probably about the same. Means rupture up time is going to be pretty critical.

    KafkaAU on
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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also I made a mistake, it's 3 energy at rank 1, 6 at rank 2

    Javen on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Also, haste is supposed to increase energy regeneration, so there's that as well.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Javen wrote: »
    Also I made a mistake, it's 3 energy at rank 1, 6 at rank 2

    That same talent also makes you proc 1dmg as poison damage when your rupture ticks.... Anyone in beta know if that scales up as you level, and if it's affected by buffs/debuffs/other talents? Because 1dmg.. wow..

    Smrtnik on
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Javen wrote: »
    Also I made a mistake, it's 3 energy at rank 1, 6 at rank 2

    That same talent also makes you proc 1dmg as poison damage when your rupture ticks.... Anyone in beta know if that scales up as you level, and if it's affected by buffs/debuffs/other talents? Because 1dmg.. wow..

    That was just a placeholder amount. In live it's something like 1024, and probably scales with attack power

    Javen on
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    No, it's always going to do 1 damage.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's in fact balanced around doing 1 damage.

    Jutranjo on
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Well, talents before were balanced so that when you activate a talent point in a talent that gives you a new ability, the numbers on it are numbers that make sense for the level you can first time get it (if you were putting points only into that tree), and then every serveral levels there would be an upgrade you can get just like every other spell upgrade, but the prerequestite to purchase the upgrade from the trainer was that you have the talent in question.

    Until relatively recently, if you respecced and lost the talent, then came back to that spec and picked it up, you'd have to re-train all the upgrades again. Some recent patch made the game remember that you already picked up the upgrades at some point and just enables them once you have the talent trained again.

    In Cata you don't upgrade your spells at specific levels, they upgrade themselves as you level up. The only reason to see the trainer is to learn new spells, not upgrade them. Or if you want to get all your talents refunded so you can respec.

    So I figured the 1dmg will scale, just found it weird that it doesn't start out at whatever is the lowest level you can put a point in that talent. Any idea what the formula might be?

    With that new iteration in mind (where it got merged with focued attacks) it seems pretty mandatory to have rupture back in our PvE rotation. So what is the rotation like now in Cata? 4pt envenom/4pt rupture ?

    Smrtnik on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Smrtnik wrote: »
    Well, talents before were balanced so that when you activate a talent point in a talent that gives you a new ability, the numbers on it are numbers that make sense for the level you can first time get it (if you were putting points only into that tree), and then every serveral levels there would be an upgrade you can get just like every other spell upgrade, but the prerequestite to purchase the upgrade from the trainer was that you have the talent in question.

    Until relatively recently, if you respecced and lost the talent, then came back to that spec and picked it up, you'd have to re-train all the upgrades again. Some recent patch made the game remember that you already picked up the upgrades at some point and just enables them once you have the talent trained again.

    In Cata you don't upgrade your spells at specific levels, they upgrade themselves as you level up. The only reason to see the trainer is to learn new spells, not upgrade them. Or if you want to get all your talents refunded so you can respec.

    So I figured the 1dmg will scale, just found it weird that it doesn't start out at whatever is the lowest level you can put a point in that talent. Any idea what the formula might be?
    beta

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Yes, and the well known theorycrafters generally get into the beta and craft.. theories.

    Smrtnik on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    Worrying about the numbers in beta is a fool's errand.

    Until retail hits, it's best just to focus on mechanics.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • JutranjoJutranjo Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    You're being a pretty silly water fowl with these concerns.

    Jutranjo on
  • TrappedTrapped Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    So, I lurk these forums a lot and just got back into WoW again after getting bored of ToGC on my warrior; now I'm on a rogue. I'm dual specc'd assassination and combat, have 2 232 daggers, and do really bad dps as combat but pretty good as assassination. I read everywhere that combat daggers is bad but I've never seen the reasons behind it posted. Is it because you need a slow weapon MH, and that's why my combat dps is bad? Or am I just doing it wrong?

    Trapped on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    It's probably mainly the numbers game on 60 energy backstabs vs. 40 energy Sinister Strikes that proc an extra CP on 50% of crits. I imagine Combat Daggers CP generation is horrible. I've never really looked into it.

    Oh, and Killing Spree damage would be gimped due to not having a slow MH. Probably some other factors too. Meh.

    forty on
    Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited July 2010
    lol beta and all that, but there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of...choice...involved in the rogue trees. Was just trying to put an assassination build, and I don't think I was able to put one point in a "fun" talent. Every talent I picked was dps increasing, with the possible argument against imp EA.

    http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#fbIfMsbIkGo0hZ0h

    Aren't they trying to get away from this? Still a lot of work to do, I guess.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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