Yeah, there are more examples too. When I logged on my DK a couple days ago and tried to make an unholy spec, I think I got every talent I wanted for 32 points and just avoided a bunch of utility/defensive stuff.
They've got a long way to go, but for now they've still got the time.
So looking at the OP I'm curious about the Assassination talent build. Why no Vigor? Why no fleet footed? Isn't a baseline movement speed increase a huge DPS boost? And more energy seems obvious.
Are the two points in relentless strikes that huge a boost? Does 8% energy return offset the flat 10 point boost from vigor? Also, why no deadly brew?
I'm not trying to come from the point of you're stupid I just want to know. I'm lvl 74, and I'm about to respec into mutilate from combat levelling because I have two daggers worth it now. Here is what I was thinking:
You need to fill out Ruthlessness. It translates into a higher Envenom uptime, and since IP does so much damage, that point would probably really hurt.
Also Murder is a straight 4% dps increase. I wouldn't skip that.
Edit: And Vigor is nigh useless once combat is actually started since you should never be energy capped. I would probably take Fleet Footed over Quick Recovery, as with enough expertise you won't be missing finishers. Deadly Brew has only very situational use in PvE.
I am falling more and more in love with PvP Subtlety.
I am going to see if I can organize the Beasts into getting a five Sub-rogue-who-are-also-engineers team into Strand of the Ancients. You can Shadowstep up to the cannons, bypassing the gates. Saeris of the UI thread fame has deduced, through liberal applications of SCIENCE!, that the doors have about 10 bombs worth of health.
From personal experience, I can generally do two bombing runs on the final chamber before even the fastest demolisher drivers get to the yellow gate.
So I've almost got my heirloom farming resto druid to 80, and I'm thinking about heirlooming the hell out of a rogue. I know combat is generally the shit for leveling, but I figure with heirloom gear I can go daggers and still autoattack my way to 70 or so. I've done the combat thing a few times, and now I want me some assassination/subtlety fun times. I hear that assassination gets pretty awesome past 50, so am I making a horrible mistake by getting the heirloom daggahs?
I am falling more and more in love with PvP Subtlety.
I am going to see if I can organize the Beasts into getting a five Sub-rogue-who-are-also-engineers team into Strand of the Ancients. You can Shadowstep up to the cannons, bypassing the gates. Saeris of the UI thread fame has deduced, through liberal applications of SCIENCE!, that the doors have about 10 bombs worth of health.
From personal experience, I can generally do two bombing runs on the final chamber before even the fastest demolisher drivers get to the yellow gate.
Can you bomb the gates ahead of you before a previous gate has gone down?
I may have to do that the next time...
I usually bomb Blue/Green, shadowstep and run to the nearest GY to cap it as soon as the gate falls. My Sub rogue loves Strand.
So looking at the OP I'm curious about the Assassination talent build. Why no Vigor? Why no fleet footed? Isn't a baseline movement speed increase a huge DPS boost? And more energy seems obvious.
Are the two points in relentless strikes that huge a boost? Does 8% energy return offset the flat 10 point boost from vigor? Also, why no deadly brew?
I'm not trying to come from the point of you're stupid I just want to know. I'm lvl 74, and I'm about to respec into mutilate from combat levelling because I have two daggers worth it now. Here is what I was thinking:
Are you talking about Cataclysm or Wrath? PvE or PvP? If PvE Wrath, look up my spec a (i got dual spec, if you look at the spec I have with Hunger for Blood that's my pve spec), that's optimal raiding mutilate spec atm. Smrtnik on Arthas (US).
Vigor only really affects your first attack since unless you have to run away from the boss for a while there's no time you'll be even close to energy capped as mutilate. Deadly Brew is just crippling poison which offers almost no significant pve use and the problem with fleet footed is that you give up murder for it. yes the movement increase is nice (you should have cat's swiftness or tuskarr vitality on your boots already) but it's not as nice as a flat %4 more damage
I am falling more and more in love with PvP Subtlety.
I am going to see if I can organize the Beasts into getting a five Sub-rogue-who-are-also-engineers team into Strand of the Ancients. You can Shadowstep up to the cannons, bypassing the gates. Saeris of the UI thread fame has deduced, through liberal applications of SCIENCE!, that the doors have about 10 bombs worth of health.
From personal experience, I can generally do two bombing runs on the final chamber before even the fastest demolisher drivers get to the yellow gate.
Can you bomb the gates ahead of you before a previous gate has gone down?
I may have to do that the next time...
I usually bomb Blue/Green, shadowstep and run to the nearest GY to cap it as soon as the gate falls. My Sub rogue loves Strand.
Yes, any gate can be bombed at any time. If I'm running with people from the guild, I'll sprint straight to the end, since I know at least one tank will be driven well. If it's a full blown pug, I'll hang around at the first GY and cap it immediately.
What percentage hit do I need again? I always forget those numbers. 8% for yellow attacks?
assuming you have 5/5 precision you want 315 for poisons, and 98 for yellow attacks
Kaglicious on
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DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
This is a silly question, I'm aware of that before even asking, but one of the things I'm uncomfortable with on my Rogue (Combat) is Stealth, namely openers. In the field while questing or doing a 5-man, Cheap Shot is okay because of the stun (mostly using it against casters) and two combo points for doing so. Bosses, on the other hand, are immune to it.
Should I even be using a Stealth opener against bosses as Combat? Because as far as I can see, my only choice there is Garrote, or do I just run in, guns blazing, and start up with Sinister Strikes?
I think it's best to forego an opener entirely unless it's a boss you can start very near or right next to, honestly. It doesn't take long at all of being out of combat stealthing over to lose any damage gained by garroting.
turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
edited July 2010
So my combat rogue is 22 now and I'm wondering if eviscerate is supposed to feel as wimpy as it does? I rarely get to use it (since my first batch of combo points goes to SnD) and even when I do it barely hits for more than a sinister strike crit.
turtleant on
0
DunxcoShould get a suitNever skips breakfastRegistered Userregular
I think it's best to forego an opener entirely unless it's a boss you can start very near or right next to, honestly. It doesn't take long at all of being out of combat stealthing over to lose any damage gained by garroting.
Right, so on fights like Deathbringer, where you can stand right behind the boss before it actually triggers, it's worthwhile, but on fights like, say, Marrowgar it's pointless. Cheers for clearing that up.
It depends a lot on your gear, too. Sounds like you're in ICC, so yeah, it's probably not worth it. But in heroics or naxx/ulduar, garrote is the way to go in terms of openers.
And since you're obviously 80, opening threat isn't an issue since you should be leading with tricks. Before 75, sometimes the stealth->garrote opener for combat is a better idea since it lets the tank get some threat and Garrote isn't frontloaded damage like starting up your SS spam is.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
FFOnce Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Is doing something like Tricks -> Fan of Knives acceptable when running into a trash mob? Or am I just pissing off the tank (or wasting energy/time)?
Also, are there any Tricks macros? Right now I'm hitting Tricks and then clicking on the tank. Kinda...clunky.
Is doing something like Tricks -> Fan of Knives acceptable when running into a trash mob? Or am I just pissing off the tank (or wasting energy/time)?
It's not just acceptable; it's what you should be doing to help out the tank if the pull isn't just a couple mobs. Unless you're saying run in ahead of the tank to start the pull for him, in which case it's not really acceptable, and it's also risky for you.
Is doing something like Tricks -> Fan of Knives acceptable when running into a trash mob? Or am I just pissing off the tank (or wasting energy/time)?
It's not just acceptable; it's what you should be doing to help out the tank if the pull isn't just a couple mobs. Unless you're saying run in ahead of the tank to start the pull for him, in which case it's not really acceptable, and it's also risky for you.
I often do this in 5-mans, especially the prison instance the name of which suddenly escapes me. When those dragonflight groups spawn, it seems like half the time the tank is running in from the wrong direction and so tossing Tricks and FoKing the shit out of them tends to solve the problem.
Well, of course there are exceptions, but I just mean in general. Maybe it's a non-wave based dungeon like most of them and the tank needs a quick break or something. If the mechanics force the "pulls" on the group or the tank doesn't mind you firing things up on him, then go ahead.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
FFOnce Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered Userregular
Is doing something like Tricks -> Fan of Knives acceptable when running into a trash mob? Or am I just pissing off the tank (or wasting energy/time)?
It's not just acceptable; it's what you should be doing to help out the tank if the pull isn't just a couple mobs. Unless you're saying run in ahead of the tank to start the pull for him, in which case it's not really acceptable, and it's also risky for you.
Oh yeah, I wouldn't just run in before then tank...unless I knew them :twisted:
I guess, it's one of those things, it seemed like such an easy thing to do I figured I had to be wrong.
Also, maybe it's just that I'm a fresh 80 with mostly quest/low dungeon blues, but mobs in the higher level dungeons (non-heroic) seem to be hitting me like a gorramned truck. Lately anything in Forge of Souls seems to hit me for upwards of 3k. Not direct hits either, but AoE. Is this...Should I be worried?
Nope, like almost everything in WoW, it's easy and obvious but most people don't do it because they are terrible at the game. TotT rules (for now).
As long as you're not standing in cleaves, avoidable whirlwinds, attacking during some sort of retaliation effect (which I've only ever noticed in Gundrak), you shouldn't be taking unhealable damage. Although if your healer is bad, horribly undergeared, sleeping, focusing on healing DPS taking damage they shouldn't, then your life is more likely to be in jeopardy. If there's life-threatening AoE damage that you seem to be taking, you can always Feint.
forty on
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
0
FFOnce Upon a TimeIn OaklandRegistered Userregular
edited July 2010
Turns out it was the healer (mostly). He got pissed because we didn't tell him the name of the tank. He tried to wipe the group on a trash pull in Heroic HoL and then left when that didn't work.
In other news I cleaned house in Heroic Strat netting the drake and [Greed]
I know it's not a big deal for some, but hey, it's my first 80.
That's the one thing that seems weird to me when it gets brought up by Blizzard as "good" reasons for most of the new rogue abilities to be about survivability rather than damage.
I've played my rogue to 80 and done a good bit of raiding with him, and 90% of the time, I'm not really taking damage. I don't see how having recuperate or more armor or anything else is going to make me better at my role when almost the entirety of my deaths come from the raid wiping, rather than me individually getting hit/killed.
Vincent Grayson on
0
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited August 2010
Supposedly that is going to change with the raids in Cataclysm, at least according to GC. It sounds like new raid bosses will dish out more 'incidental' raid-wide damage which will tax the healers more, so we need to be good little boys and girls and Recuperate to help out the healers.
Frankly I still don't see this working out too well, as the better healers would still rather toss a HoT on you to keep you going so we can spend those five CPs on actual damage. I think that's the key issue, really. If Recuperate didn't require combo points we'd likely be (at least I know I'd be) more at ease about using it in a raid environment, but I'm really not crazy about taking the time to get five combo points and then burning them off just to heal myself (assuming I'll actually have the time to work up those CPs before I'm dead).
So if I were leveling a rogue combat in Cataclysm, which heirlooms would be the way to go - maces or thrash blades? Stats vs. chance to proc an additional attack? One of each?
So if I were leveling a rogue combat in Cataclysm, which heirlooms would be the way to go - maces or thrash blades? Stats vs. chance to proc an additional attack? One of each?
Probably just get whatever is the slowest main hand and fastest off hand, since mixing weapon types won't matter anymore. I think that's mace + one of the daggers, but I don't know the heirlooms well.
I'm not sure about the other weapons, but I think the Thrash Blade is unique, so you can only use one anyway. And it's 2.4 speed, which isn't really ideal.
So if I were leveling a rogue combat in Cataclysm, which heirlooms would be the way to go - maces or thrash blades? Stats vs. chance to proc an additional attack? One of each?
Probably just get whatever is the slowest main hand and fastest off hand, since mixing weapon types won't matter anymore. I think that's mace + one of the daggers, but I don't know the heirlooms well.
I'm not sure about the other weapons, but I think the Thrash Blade is unique, so you can only use one anyway. And it's 2.4 speed, which isn't really ideal.
Is there any incentive at all to have a slow weapon in your offhand? Or is a dagger ideal (or, at worst, on the same level as a fast sword/mace) now that weapon specs are gone?
So if I were leveling a rogue combat in Cataclysm, which heirlooms would be the way to go - maces or thrash blades? Stats vs. chance to proc an additional attack? One of each?
Probably just get whatever is the slowest main hand and fastest off hand, since mixing weapon types won't matter anymore. I think that's mace + one of the daggers, but I don't know the heirlooms well.
I'm not sure about the other weapons, but I think the Thrash Blade is unique, so you can only use one anyway. And it's 2.4 speed, which isn't really ideal.
Is there any incentive at all to have a slow weapon in your offhand? Or is a dagger ideal (or, at worst, on the same level as a fast sword/mace) now that weapon specs are gone?
Well, a slow off hand would make FoK and Killing Spree hit a little harder, but overall you get far more benefits from a fast off hand. I think Cata is taking away a little bit of the lopsidedness of a fast off hand (I forget if Combat Potency is sticking around), but I imagine slow/fast will still be the way to go.
Posts
They've got a long way to go, but for now they've still got the time.
Are the two points in relentless strikes that huge a boost? Does 8% energy return offset the flat 10 point boost from vigor? Also, why no deadly brew?
I'm not trying to come from the point of you're stupid I just want to know. I'm lvl 74, and I'm about to respec into mutilate from combat levelling because I have two daggers worth it now. Here is what I was thinking:
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#f0gcoegoiMoIuVo0xV0xc:IzkcVm
Am I stupid?
buy warhams
Also Murder is a straight 4% dps increase. I wouldn't skip that.
Edit: And Vigor is nigh useless once combat is actually started since you should never be energy capped. I would probably take Fleet Footed over Quick Recovery, as with enough expertise you won't be missing finishers. Deadly Brew has only very situational use in PvE.
I just saw relentless strikes is per combo point. I overlooked that.
So implementing your changes I ended up with two extra combo points, should I put them in relentless strikes?
buy warhams
I am going to see if I can organize the Beasts into getting a five Sub-rogue-who-are-also-engineers team into Strand of the Ancients. You can Shadowstep up to the cannons, bypassing the gates. Saeris of the UI thread fame has deduced, through liberal applications of SCIENCE!, that the doors have about 10 bombs worth of health.
From personal experience, I can generally do two bombing runs on the final chamber before even the fastest demolisher drivers get to the yellow gate.
Can you bomb the gates ahead of you before a previous gate has gone down?
I may have to do that the next time...
I usually bomb Blue/Green, shadowstep and run to the nearest GY to cap it as soon as the gate falls. My Sub rogue loves Strand.
assasination/subtlety has its place in levelling, it just tends to work better when you are playing with a friend who can aggro shit
*note) by everything i mean will usually take over half their hp and be dead with a backstab + eviscerate
Are you talking about Cataclysm or Wrath? PvE or PvP? If PvE Wrath, look up my spec a (i got dual spec, if you look at the spec I have with Hunger for Blood that's my pve spec), that's optimal raiding mutilate spec atm. Smrtnik on Arthas (US).
5/5 Malice
3/3 Puncturing Wounds
3/3 Ruthlessness
5/5 Lethality
5/5 Improved Poisons
3/3 Vile Poisons
1/1 Cold Blood
5/5 Seal Fate
2/2 Murder
1/1 Overkill
3/3 Focused Attacks
3/3 Find Weakness
1/1 Mutilate
3/3 Master Poisoner
5/5 Cut to the Chase
1/1 Hunger for Blood
2 Spare points in whatever (usually Fleet Footed)
5/5 Dual Wield Spec
5/5 Precision
5/5 Close Quaters Combat
3/3 Lightning Reflexes
2/5 Relentless Strikes
Glyphs:
Hunger for Blood
Mutilate
Tricks of the Trade.
Edited for clarity.
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
Yes, any gate can be bombed at any time. If I'm running with people from the guild, I'll sprint straight to the end, since I know at least one tank will be driven well. If it's a full blown pug, I'll hang around at the first GY and cap it immediately.
assuming you have 5/5 precision you want 315 for poisons, and 98 for yellow attacks
Should I even be using a Stealth opener against bosses as Combat? Because as far as I can see, my only choice there is Garrote, or do I just run in, guns blazing, and start up with Sinister Strikes?
Right, so on fights like Deathbringer, where you can stand right behind the boss before it actually triggers, it's worthwhile, but on fights like, say, Marrowgar it's pointless. Cheers for clearing that up.
Also, are there any Tricks macros? Right now I'm hitting Tricks and then clicking on the tank. Kinda...clunky.
is a macro that puts tricks on whatever your current target is targetting
However, if you're doing tricks with another rogue then you're probably better with a focus macro
Just set focus on your rogue partner and then use it when appropiate
I often do this in 5-mans, especially the prison instance the name of which suddenly escapes me. When those dragonflight groups spawn, it seems like half the time the tank is running in from the wrong direction and so tossing Tricks and FoKing the shit out of them tends to solve the problem.
Oh yeah, I wouldn't just run in before then tank...unless I knew them :twisted:
I guess, it's one of those things, it seemed like such an easy thing to do I figured I had to be wrong.
Also, maybe it's just that I'm a fresh 80 with mostly quest/low dungeon blues, but mobs in the higher level dungeons (non-heroic) seem to be hitting me like a gorramned truck. Lately anything in Forge of Souls seems to hit me for upwards of 3k. Not direct hits either, but AoE. Is this...Should I be worried?
As long as you're not standing in cleaves, avoidable whirlwinds, attacking during some sort of retaliation effect (which I've only ever noticed in Gundrak), you shouldn't be taking unhealable damage. Although if your healer is bad, horribly undergeared, sleeping, focusing on healing DPS taking damage they shouldn't, then your life is more likely to be in jeopardy. If there's life-threatening AoE damage that you seem to be taking, you can always Feint.
In other news I cleaned house in Heroic Strat netting the drake and [Greed]
I know it's not a big deal for some, but hey, it's my first 80.
I've played my rogue to 80 and done a good bit of raiding with him, and 90% of the time, I'm not really taking damage. I don't see how having recuperate or more armor or anything else is going to make me better at my role when almost the entirety of my deaths come from the raid wiping, rather than me individually getting hit/killed.
Frankly I still don't see this working out too well, as the better healers would still rather toss a HoT on you to keep you going so we can spend those five CPs on actual damage. I think that's the key issue, really. If Recuperate didn't require combo points we'd likely be (at least I know I'd be) more at ease about using it in a raid environment, but I'm really not crazy about taking the time to get five combo points and then burning them off just to heal myself (assuming I'll actually have the time to work up those CPs before I'm dead).
I'm not sure about the other weapons, but I think the Thrash Blade is unique, so you can only use one anyway. And it's 2.4 speed, which isn't really ideal.
What's all this? Only thing I've heard about is Cheap Shot down to 40 energy from 60.
Is there any incentive at all to have a slow weapon in your offhand? Or is a dagger ideal (or, at worst, on the same level as a fast sword/mace) now that weapon specs are gone?