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[WoW] Rouges: OP not outdated; just lackluster. Sort of like Cat Druids

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Posts

  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Rami wrote: »
    Pretty sure pooling is the standard. You need to do that in many cases anyway to keep a reserve for using kick and such.
    Yup, it's been the way to play assassination since WotLK, at least. Not sure if it was necessary in TBC since I don't think the Envenom buff was around then.

    The caveat to all this pooling stuff is encounters with heavy movement/mechanics that will force you to lose uptime. If a boss is approaching a "you can't hit me" phase (burrowing, flying, etc.), then you want to be as close to 0 energy as you can when you lose your target. You don't want to be at 85 energy, just about to hit that Envenom+Mutilate, when you suddenly have to run from some PBAoE or something and then end up energy capped 3 seconds later. It's better to throw out the specials ASAP and get a nice, long, 10 seconds of regen while you're dodging rocks or whatever.

    forty on
  • BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Echo wrote: »
    I pooled to 90 in LK as well.

    Mutilate at 55 energy is the same DPS as Mutilate at 90 energy; it just means you get two Mutilates off in quick succession and then wait again for 90 energy to repeat it; rather than getting one Mutilate at a regular interval.

    The idea is to have energy enough to do two Mutilates right away after an Envenom, to get those extra poison procs off your Mutilates since they hit with both weapons at once.

    I'm always pooling to do double Mutilate; it's not exactly a long wait with the Venomous Wounds procs. I also wait for Rupture to fall off until I refresh it unless it would make me hit 120 energy, because that is a DPS loss.

    And here's my rogue in alliance T9 from when I was a gnome.

    doublezinja.jpg

    Oh, weird, it doesn't show the bust if you're a gnome? Or did they change that for the entire set at some point?

    148553.jpg

    Beck on
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  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I think the gnomes are wearing tabards.

    I think the lace up front really makes that work. Probably the only piece of armor from that tier with any sense of style.

    Derrick on
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  • BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Ah. I don't have my glasses with me.

    Beck on
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  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    darklite_x wrote: »
    I liked the following tiers: 1, 2, 3, 9

    Tier 9 = "What, we have to do TWO armor sets now? Can we just make the armor types all look the same and do a shitty job so they all look terrible? Yes? Great!"

    Also, BIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRDDDMMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN! (that is the Alliance one anyways)

    It's pretty much been covered, but I loved my sweet cleavage in T9, and it's one of the few sets I turned the helm on for. Reminded me of a plague doctor, the entire mythos of which I find myself completely fascinated with. Of course it wasn't as good as Warlock T...7 I think? The one w/ the bone mask that the Putress wore during the wrathgate cinematic, though to be fair Warlock has had the best tiers since...always.

    EDIT: I should clarify that I only liked the T9 alliance version. The horde T9 sets were pretty universally awful.

    darklite_x on
    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So, they definitely buffed Combat. Single target, unbuffed, against a dummy, in my normal mutilate gear (hit/mastery stacked like crazy, expertise a fair bit below the capI was doing 11k as opposed to Assassination's 13k. So it's still behind on those single target fights, but between redirect working with restless blades and blade flurry being up all the time, I see combat becoming a staple for certain fights. I'm going to try reforging for some more favorable combat stats and try again.

    Javen on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    But Combat is so...Spammy. SS, SS, SS, SS ohh RS, Evis. I'm enjoying Sub right now but I want to hit 63 asap so I can get the full Assassination spec going.

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah Combat is quite boring. The only thing to really keep it interesting are cooldowns being ratched down from Restless Blades. Except Killing Spree is very unfortunate on a number of situations for a number of bosses.

    If Revealing Strike were a more important feature of the rotation than it may become slightly more novel, but Assass is a lot more fun to play.

    UnknownSaint on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well they buffed revealing strike from 20-35 percent, so it's much better now

    Javen on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well, the latest patch broke mutilate when SnD is up - costs 70 energy any time SnD is active instead of 55.

    Raynaga on
  • lionheart_mlionheart_m Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, the latest patch broke mutilate when SnD is up - costs 70 energy any time SnD is active instead of 55.

    What. :(

    lionheart_m on
    3DS: 5069-4122-2826 / WiiU: Lionheart-m / PSN: lionheart_m / Steam: lionheart_jg
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Well, the latest patch broke mutilate when SnD is up - costs 70 energy any time SnD is active instead of 55.

    Does the tooltip say so? Cause I've been getting that with a number of abilities.

    EDIT: Recuperate also costs 50 energy with SnD up.

    Javen on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, turns out its all finishers; Mutilate was just the first one I noticed. Happens to SS too, and several other abilities. Basically our bread and butter dps increasing ability now increases the energy cost of just about everything.

    And no, nothing on the tooltips - its a bug. A huge, glaring one.

    Raynaga on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Well we've seen them totally lockdown DPS increasing bugs with the quickness, let's see if the door swings both ways

    Javen on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Yeah, turns out its all finishers; Mutilate was just the first one I noticed. Happens to SS too, and several other abilities. Basically our bread and butter dps increasing ability now increases the energy cost of just about everything.

    And no, nothing on the tooltips - its a bug. A huge, glaring one.

    @%@$%#@!

    Warlock82 on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Yeah, turns out its all finishers; Mutilate was just the first one I noticed. Happens to SS too, and several other abilities. Basically our bread and butter dps increasing ability now increases the energy cost of just about everything.

    And no, nothing on the tooltips - its a bug. A huge, glaring one.
    Err, finishers? Or do you mean CP builders? Do envenom/evisc cost more when it's up? Considering this is a major DPS class-wide bug if true, I suspect it will be hotfixed relatively quickly.

    forty on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Raynaga wrote: »
    Yeah, turns out its all finishers; Mutilate was just the first one I noticed. Happens to SS too, and several other abilities. Basically our bread and butter dps increasing ability now increases the energy cost of just about everything.

    And no, nothing on the tooltips - its a bug. A huge, glaring one.
    Err, finishers? Or do you mean CP builders? Do envenom/evisc cost more when it's up? Considering this is a major DPS class-wide bug if true, I suspect it will be hotfixed relatively quickly.

    He probably did mean CP builders. And it's apparently for all specs. I also hear Glyph of Rupture flat out isn't working.

    Thank god our normal Wed. raid was moved to Sat. They better have this shit fixed by Thurs.

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Yeah, SS costs 50 energy, instead of 39.

    Javen on
  • RaynagaRaynaga Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    The Glyph thing isn't true - the glyph works, but the tooltip was finally updated so people are thinking it isn't. A 2 cp rupture is lasting somewhere around 14 seconds if I recall correctly from my time with a training dummy earlier.
    forty wrote: »

    Err, finishers? Or do you mean CP builders? Do envenom/evisc cost more when it's up? Considering this is a major DPS class-wide bug if true, I suspect it will be hotfixed relatively quickly.

    My wording wasn't very clear - I knew it was all finishers, and I read that SS was affected as well. I wasn't sure if it was EVERY cp building ability, so I worded it in such a way as to indicate that all finishing moves have increased cost, and sinister strike had increased cost.

    Apparently its every single ability ever known to man, though.

    So, yeah.

    Raynaga on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Raynaga wrote: »
    The Glyph thing isn't true - the glyph works, but the tooltip was finally updated so people are thinking it isn't. A 2 cp rupture is lasting somewhere around 14 seconds if I recall correctly from my time with a training dummy earlier.
    forty wrote: »

    Err, finishers? Or do you mean CP builders? Do envenom/evisc cost more when it's up? Considering this is a major DPS class-wide bug if true, I suspect it will be hotfixed relatively quickly.

    My wording wasn't very clear - I knew it was all finishers, and I read that SS was affected as well. I wasn't sure if it was EVERY cp building ability, so I worded it in such a way as to indicate that all finishing moves have increased cost, and sinister strike had increased cost.

    Apparently its every single ability ever known to man, though.

    So, yeah.

    Well that's something at least (glyph thing). I hear they have already hotfixed Worgen not being able to queue, so maybe they will fix this soon (please!!)

    Warlock82 on
    Switch: 2143-7130-1359 | 3DS: 4983-4927-6699 | Steam: warlock82 | PSN: Warlock2282
  • HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Heh, it also looks like poisons can't be applied in Rated Battlegrounds...

    (haven't tested this myself but heard a couple people bitch about it/a couple threads up in bug reports.)

    Heroth on
    1Gn4PNI.png
  • darklite_xdarklite_x I'm not an r-tard... Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    At first I was upset that crippling was reduced to 8 seconds, but in light of poisons not applying at all, I guess 8 seconds wouldn't have been too bad.

    darklite_x on
    Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Wow, these bugs are fucking atrocious.

    The SnD haste/energy cost thing is completely ridiculous. Better be hotfixed before tomorrow night, this is WAY too huge to not be fixed immediately.

    UnknownSaint on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Wow, these bugs are fucking atrocious.

    The SnD haste/energy cost thing is completely ridiculous. Better be hotfixed before tomorrow night, this is WAY too huge to not be fixed immediately.

    It's so bad I almost want to shelve my Rogue. It's actually *annoying* to play now - my cycles just feel completely broken and off. The only time that actually feels correct is with no S&D or with Bloodlust/Heroism/Timewarp (I guess the crazy energy regen helps to compensate for the increased ability costs?).

    Warlock82 on
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Can't say I'm looking forward to raiding with my rogue tonight if it doesn't get addressed.

    Javen on
  • AsumaAsuma Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Official blue about this issue:
    An apparent last-minute bug which was not found on the PTR before the patch was finalised has caused the client and server to disagree on the way haste affects resource generation.

    This bug will manifest itself in the UI showing a player they have enough resources to use an ability, but the server correctly prevents it as they in fact do not. A death knight for example might see a rune light up that isn’t actually available so when they use the ability, it won’t fire. A rogue may think they have enough energy to use Sinister Strike, but they can’t actually afford it so when they push the button, they will get an error. This bug could affect rogues, death knights, hunters and Feral druids, because these characters all gain more resources from haste. It will also affect buffs that affect attack speed, such as Slice and Dice, Windfury, Icy Talons, and Hunting Party, but also attack speed lowering effects like Thunder Clap. We're currently working on a fix.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/157231/haste-issue-causing-ability-errors

    So I'd expect a hot fix.

    Asuma on
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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Asuma wrote: »
    Official blue about this issue:
    An apparent last-minute bug which was not found on the PTR before the patch was finalised has caused the client and server to disagree on the way haste affects resource generation.

    This bug will manifest itself in the UI showing a player they have enough resources to use an ability, but the server correctly prevents it as they in fact do not. A death knight for example might see a rune light up that isn’t actually available so when they use the ability, it won’t fire. A rogue may think they have enough energy to use Sinister Strike, but they can’t actually afford it so when they push the button, they will get an error. This bug could affect rogues, death knights, hunters and Feral druids, because these characters all gain more resources from haste. It will also affect buffs that affect attack speed, such as Slice and Dice, Windfury, Icy Talons, and Hunting Party, but also attack speed lowering effects like Thunder Clap. We're currently working on a fix.

    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/157231/haste-issue-causing-ability-errors

    So I'd expect a hot fix.

    If it's on client side I doubt they can hotfix it.

    Warlock82 on
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  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Either way, it sounds like it's significant enough since it's affecting so many classes that whatever they need to do to fix it will be treated with a pretty high priority.

    forty on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So, playing around with my rogue today, the energy thing seems a lot better. Not sure if they hotfixed it or it started behaving after the server reset

    Javen on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So word is that they hotfixed this bug and broke something else. Apparently energy regen (and other resources like focus) are not benefitting from haste *at all* now. *sigh*

    Warlock82 on
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Sure do love hearing that 90 minutes before raid time!

    Javen on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Until then I'm just going combat, since it's much less reliant on a proper rotation. It's boring, but until they fix whatever the fuck they did, it'll have to suffice

    Javen on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I felt it was way more noticable as combat. I was questing and really feeling the lack of energy. I checked to see if the slice bug was fixed and it was, but things just felt slow, maybe its haste stacking with vitality that made it so much more noticable.

    Didn't really feel it so much as assassination, dropped about 2-3k dps from it though.

    KafkaAU on
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  • UnknownSaintUnknownSaint Kasyn Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Felt like playing in syrup tonight. Really hope the rolling restarts happen tonight so the hot-hotfix gets implemented. Still pulled near-20k on Chimaeron though. Unf unf unf.

    UnknownSaint on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So it looks like ALL haste issues have been resolved.

    Javen on
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So holy shit - stealth buff. You can now sap while in combat! You still can't sap targets that are in combat (grr), but you can say, vanish and re-apply your sap before it falls off.

    Warlock82 on
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  • kraz007kraz007 Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    I know a rogue who doesn't have two GFs, in fact, he has none.

    kraz007 on
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    So how is combat since 4.06? I only ask because the gods opened up this morning and delivered upon me a krol blade! I'm using it as my offspec grinding and sin as my main build, but with the K blade I want to unleash!

    Preacher on
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  • SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    So holy shit - stealth buff. You can now sap while in combat! You still can't sap targets that are in combat (grr), but you can say, vanish and re-apply your sap before it falls off.
    Would this apply anywhere but arena?

    Smrtnik on
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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited February 2011
    Assassination is still better for single target fights, but for healin intensive fights, fights where you're switching targets a lot, or fights with lots of adds, I go combat. And it's always my go-to spec for heroics, because the new blade flurry and buff to revealing strike totally murders trash.

    Javen on
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