Turn Based Strategy Games?

enlightenedbum

Master of Magic, for hilariously unbalanced but awesomeness.

CycloneRanger

Aldo wrote: »

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Aldo wrote: »

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

psycojester wrote: »

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

Look, guys, Civ is awesome but my sister plays Civ.

I love the way that both the games you linked both looked infinitely less fun to play than Civ4, could you please tell us why "my sister plays Civ" is a mark against it, if anything it's a mark for your sister.

Civ is fairly casual. It's not a mark against it, it's just there's more to life and TBS on the PC than Civ.

Also, those games are from the CivII era and are as equally as fun to play as any Civ.

Civ is fairly casual? It's probably the most complicated computer game I've ever played, at least once you install the expansions.

This tells me more about the other games you play than the complexity of Civ.

What would you consider to be more complicated?

The games Szech recommends for a start. Galactic Civilizations made my brain explode too, although it was still all understandable after a few days of trial & error.

I've never played either of those, but from the videos neither looks remotely as complex as Civ IV with all three expansions.

Pi-r8

Aldo wrote: »

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Aldo wrote: »

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

psycojester wrote: »

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

Look, guys, Civ is awesome but my sister plays Civ.

I love the way that both the games you linked both looked infinitely less fun to play than Civ4, could you please tell us why "my sister plays Civ" is a mark against it, if anything it's a mark for your sister.

Civ is fairly casual. It's not a mark against it, it's just there's more to life and TBS on the PC than Civ.

Also, those games are from the CivII era and are as equally as fun to play as any Civ.

Civ is fairly casual? It's probably the most complicated computer game I've ever played, at least once you install the expansions.

This tells me more about the other games you play than the complexity of Civ.

What would you consider to be more complicated?

The games Szech recommends for a start. Galactic Civilizations made my brain explode too, although it was still all understandable after a few days of trial & error.

Beat Civ 4 with its expansion on deity mode, and then try and tell me it's not a complicated game.

Aldo

Pi-r8 wrote: »

Beat Civ 4 with its expansion on deity mode, and then try and tell me it's not a complicated game.

I think that makes it a difficult game.

Look, CivIV is easy to pick up and play, Sid explains the basic gameplay to you in about an hour and then you're good to go and explore other aspects of the game on your own accord. This does not mean Civ is uncomplicated, but it does not make it rocket science.

A game like Galactic Civilizations is far more complicated, there are so many menus, submenus, units, settings and planets to tab through and there is so much information you have to know to make decisions just to not get your ass handed to you by the AI on lowest settings.

complication=/=difficulty, basically.

CycloneRanger

Aldo wrote: »

Pi-r8 wrote: »

Beat Civ 4 with its expansion on deity mode, and then try and tell me it's not a complicated game.

I think that makes it a difficult game.

Look, CivIV is easy to pick up and play, Sid explains the basic gameplay to you in about an hour and then you're good to go and explore other aspects of the game on your own accord. This does not mean Civ is uncomplicated, but it does not make it rocket science.

A game like Galactic Civilizations is far more complicated, there are so many menus, submenus, units, settings and planets to tab through and there is so much information you have to know to make decisions just to not get your ass handed to you by the AI on lowest settings.

complication=/=difficulty, basically.

You're right about difficulty not being the same as complexity, but the fact that Civ IV has a much better tutorial shouldn't count against its complexity, either.

Have you played with all the expansions, or even just the two official expansions? It is very different.

Szechuanosaurus

Something like MAX isn't even particularly complicated in the sense of excessive amounts of options and menus. It is just extremely cerebral in a way that Civ isn't. Even on deity mode in Civ you can afford to make mistakes and go into a game without a detailed strategy, just have a rough plan and wing it, responding to challenges as they occur. In MAX every single move has to be part of an extremely water tight strategy with multiple contingency plans built in. And you're right, for a lot if people it isn't as fun as Civ. But if you can make it your bitch it's extremely rewarding.

CycloneRanger

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

Something like MAX isn't even particularly complicated in the sense of excessive amounts of options and menus. It is just extremely cerebral in a way that Civ isn't. Even on deity mode in Civ you can afford to make mistakes and go into a game without a detailed strategy, just have a rough plan and wing it, responding to challenges as they occur...

I'm sorry, but this could not be less true. On anything higher than Monarch, you will fail unless you stick to a particular strategy throughout the entire game. Everything from your second city location to your diplomatic alliances to your espionage spending has to support your chosen goal or you're done. This is doubly true since the AI was improved in one of the expansions (don't remember which one).

Besides, I'm not sure "extremely unforgiving" is the same as "complicated", either. When I think of complexity, I think of the depth and breadth of the decisions available. How many different variables do you have to consider? How many different systems are interacting at once? I don't think it's possible to argue that Civilization 4 + expansions isn't at least very high up on that scale.

GoodOmens

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Civilization IV. With all the mods, scenarios, and expansions, it'll keep you playing for years.

Yep. All you need it Civ 4 and Beyond the Sword. Warlords and Colonization are very optional, not really worth it, but they're included with Civ 4 Complete.

Also, Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic is made of awesome.

Szechuanosaurus

CycloneRanger wrote: »

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

Something like MAX isn't even particularly complicated in the sense of excessive amounts of options and menus. It is just extremely cerebral in a way that Civ isn't. Even on deity mode in Civ you can afford to make mistakes and go into a game without a detailed strategy, just have a rough plan and wing it, responding to challenges as they occur...

I'm sorry, but this could not be less true. On anything higher than Monarch, you will fail unless you stick to a particular strategy throughout the entire game. Everything from your second city location to your diplomatic alliances to your espionage spending has to support your chosen goal or you're done. This is doubly true since the AI was improved in one of the expansions (don't remember which one).

Besides, I'm not sure "extremely unforgiving" is the same as "complicated", either. When I think of complexity, I think of the depth and breadth of the decisions available. How many different variables do you have to consider? How many different systems are interacting at once? I don't think it's possible to argue that Civilization 4 + expansions isn't at least very high up on that scale.

I never said anything about the complexity of the Civ franchise.

Look, guy, you're trying way to hard to defend Civ. I get it, it's a great game, I love the series. The point I was trying to get across, however, was that contrary to what some folks are posting in this thread, TBS doesn't start and end with the Civ games. Civ is only one small part of a wide spectrum of TBS games and to say "Civ4+Expansion = Thread over" is selling the breadth of experiences available to the OP within the genre extremely short.

However, if you think Deity level in Civ4 is tough - and if you like a tough challenge - you really need to try and get hold of M.A.X. sometime. You clearly haven't played it and comparing Apples to Oranges is even more ridiculous when you've never even tasted an Orange.

Niceguy Myeye

enlightenedbum wrote: »

Master of Magic, for hilariously unbalanced but awesomeness.

This is the best game. You need DosBox to run it, though.


In that note, keep an eye out for the remake by Stardock. It's not out yet, but I have high hopes for a modern made Master of Magic. I hope it turns out ok, because I've kept my eye on this for a while.

http://elementalgame.com/

Sir Carcass

If you want complicated, look no further than MOO3.

I didn't say it was fun.

Also look into Star Wars: Rebellion and Star Trek: Birth of the Federation.

SanderJK

Birth of the Federation is one of the toughest 4x games I know about. Keeping your economy in shape and your military competitive is harsh.

Other then that it's mostly a reskinned MOO2 with LOADS of minor races, destinct major races (5 iirc) lots of star trek nerdery and 3D combat that didn't age too well. I enjoyed it a lot.

If you've played all the classics, I'd recommend it. GalCiv II does most of what it does better though (except the star trek nerdery).

Sword of the Stars never captured me for some reason. It always felt like I was doing loads of ship micro management (A lot of ships to build and move per turn) and very little empire building (all via slider adjustment, most of which I barely touched).

Sins of a Solar Empire, while technically not turn based, is a real genre favorite of mine. (It's very slow realtime, but it's all about tactical and strategic decisions, no twitch or remembering quick keys to build stuff involved)

Arrath

For those talking about complexity, try out a Paradox game like Hearts of Iron. Dear lord.

Anyway, I love both Sins of a Solar Empire and Sword of the Stars. Jagged Alliance 2 with the 1.13 fan update/mod/patch is awesome. Personally I didn't like Civ4 all too much, not sure why. Kinda stuck to Alpha Centauri myself.

And yeah, Birth of the Federation can be a real bitch. I reinstall it now and again.

Pookiepoo

I am a huge fan of the genre and can't recommend Poxnora highly enough.

In addition to having fantastic and constantly balanced 1v1 ranked and unranked matches, 8 factions worth of units/spells to collect Collectible Card Game style, single player campaigns, and addictive RPG elements (permanently leveling up units), I'd say it is a very overlooked gem.

Free to play and simple graphics turn off a lot of people, but do not be fooled. There is a VERY deep and interested game here. It really is more of a hobby than a game, as you can put so much into it.

Cheers.

admanb

Pookiepoo wrote: »

I am a huge fan of the genre and can't recommend Poxnora highly enough.

In addition to having fantastic and constantly balanced 1v1 ranked and unranked matches, 8 factions worth of units/spells to collect Collectible Card Game style, single player campaigns, and addictive RPG elements (permanently leveling up units), I'd say it is a very overlooked gem.

Free to play and simple graphics turn off a lot of people, but do not be fooled. There is a VERY deep and interested game here. It really is more of a hobby than a game, as you can put so much into it.

Cheers.

I think calling it free-to-play is a bit... not so much. It's very much a digital CCG. Very good game though.

JeffH

If you're into CCG-esque play and can get over the fact that there is no deckbuilding (not meant for the game but people whine about it), There is lots of good strategy and lots of fun to be had with Spectromancer. 20 bucks one time buy, free to play, free ranked multiplayer, campaign mode.

WonderMink

Heroes of Might and Magic, any of them except four, because that one was really stupid. I like 2 and 3 pretty equally. You can probably pick them up for real cheap somewhere.

Mr. Gruntor

JebusUD wrote: »

Heroes of Might and Magic, any of them except four, because that one was really stupid. I like 2 and 3 pretty equally. You can probably pick them up for real cheap somewhere.

GOG.com has 1-3 for $9.99 each, DRM-free.