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Hi H/A. This is really long, so please bear with me. Also, please forgive the alt. I really don't want this traced back to me in any way, shape, or form. It's pretty angst-ridden, but I'm reaching the end of my rope and I could really use an outside opinion on the matter.
Five and a half years ago, I joined graduate school to peruse my Ph.D. degree. I don't want to get too specific about which one, or which field, but I will say that it was a physical science, and a highly experimental one. From the moment I started, it was grueling. Classes have made up only the smallest portion of my graduate experience: My school requires only four courses be taken at the graduate level. Those finish within the first six or so months of joining. After that, the rest of the degree-earning process involves hard research, and the publication of your findings.
The schedule is starting to wear on me after more than five years. A normal day in the lab starts at roughly eight in the morning. My professor (the guy I work for) claims that 'there are no hours' we are held to, but on multiple occasions he has complained loudly and bitterly when people are not in the lab before he's in his office, so the 8:00 AM start time is held to. We're allowed to take a one hour lunch break, and a two hour dinner break (My prof. has also complained about people taking 'extended dinners'). The day ends at midnight, if you're done with whatever you were doing. This is done six days a week. Sunday is the only day off, and "you don't have to take it off, and maybe you shouldn't sometimes" (Again, something my prof. has said). So, to put it mildly, the schedule is a bit of a bitch. Believe it or not, it's possible to adjust to it. Eventually around year three I grew accustomed to the hours, but lately I've been burning out on them.
So, for the past five and a half years, I've been trying my best to churn out research under these conditions. Here's the rub: I'm really bad at it. Compared to my peers, I'm pretty much the slowest horse on the track. I don't pick up on concepts quickly, I fall to pieces under pressure, and I'm one-hundred percent terrible at coming up with original research ideas on my own. I've basically been acting as my professor's 'hands' the whole time I've been here, taking suggestions that he's made about research and applying them at the experimental level. In some ways, this has worked: I have been able to publish, and it was a really nice publication. But it was a small publication, years ago, and the community is all about 'What have you done for us lately', more than anything else. My list of accomplishments is short, and now I'm faced with a rapidly expiring timer. Simply put, I'm supposed to get out of here, and soon. I've already had to petition the dean once to extend my registration beyond five years, so the signals are all there that I need to wrap things up. In order to leave, two things need to happen - I need to write original research proposals, and I need to compile a thesis.
The original research proposals SUCK. This is where I fail hardest of all. I'm supposed to write up three different scientific proposals, each detailing novel research that's never been presented or published before. I've been choking for months. Only through massive serendipity and considerable assistance was I able to get one proposal mostly done. It took me a solid month to write that single proposal, and that only came as a stroke of luck. Now that I'm sitting here, wondering what to do for the other two, I realize I'm fucking useless at this shit. I fritter away entire days just trying to come up with ideas, only to find out that they've already been done, have been done in a different and better way, or that the idea was just useless to begin with. I really feel like I can't manage to draft two more novel ideas. I just don't have the tools to come up with something completely original, and I certainly can't defend it in front of a committee of professors.
The thesis isn't going to be much better, either. Writing it all up is going to involve a lot of backtracking experimentation to solve questions that never seemed pertinent at that time. Just to explain what I mean by that: Usually on a project, we're trying to blow full-speed ahead. Other people might scoop us, and we want results as quickly as possible. Thus, if something interesting happens that's not 'on target' to the current project, or if we run into a dead end with an experiment somewhere, we drop it like a sack of bricks and scramble to find another way around the problem. That means we don't usually stop to get all the data - we just get enough data to tell us that our current line of investigation isn't going to work out. However, the totality of data is going to be necessary for me to write my thesis. That means re-running a lot of experiments that never worked, or led to dead-ends, and then even more work analyzing all of that data. To top it all off, as I said before I have one very small successful project. Most of the students who have already graduated ahead of me have completed two or three projects, and have written a thesis somewhere on the order of 400-500 pages. I'll be lucky if I can crack 100-200 at this point.
In light of how useless I've been in terms of writing proposals, how ignorant I repeatedly show myself to be, and considering how my thesis work feels lacking in comparison to my peers, I really don't feel like I've earned a Ph.D. in my time at graduate school. That fact, combined with the exhausting schedule and massive frustration, means that I just want out. I want to walk away from all this crap, because it's turned me against the science I used to be passionate about, turning something that used to be exciting and interesting into a kind of torture. I dread every deadline, and with all my friends and colleagues gone, I dread every day. I could go on at length in this post about how difficult and hostile I feel the working environment is, but I don't want to risk any incidents being recognized.
I have a huge problem with getting out, though. My family has been, by and large, very supportive of me in all I do. I love `em to pieces for all the help they've given me, but damn if they just don't understand a thing about how a Ph.D. is earned. Even after five and a half years, they don't understand that I have to go back to work after dinner, or that I have to work through Saturdays. To them, they think I'm 'so close' to getting the degree, when in effect I feel like I have 75% of the work ahead of me. They treat it like Highschool-Ex Mode or something. The fact that I made it to the end of five and a half years means, in their mind, that someone should just hand me a Ph.D. for perfect attendance or something like that. I've voiced my displeasure at the situation to them, and even though they've told me 'Do whatever you want', I'm getting seriously hostile vibes from all sides when I say I want to leave. 'Just suck it up', 'It's only a few more months', 'Can't you just finish?' shit like that, which is further evidence that they'll never understand the realities of what goes on here. I really want to bolt, but the anger I've felt in response to merely suggesting quitting makes me terrified. I can do whatever the hell I want, of course, but I fear alienating my family and living with shame for having disappointed them. I feel it's a justified move, but in their eyes, leaving while 'so close' to the end must be lazy and shiftless. A further, similar problem will be my professor. He'll gladly fail me if I can't get through this process up to his standards, but he'll never let me quit. It looks bad for him if people leave the group, so he never willingly lets anyone just pack up and go when they've had their fill. If anyone leaves, he'll never write a letter of recommendation for them, or serve as a positive reference. That makes getting a job in the field extremely difficult. The community of scientists in this field is very small, so word travels fast.
Another point is maybe I'm scared of what I'll feel like later. Right now, I can say with one-hundred percent confidence that there's no way in hell that I can make it to the end. I just don't see it happening. But I do fear the possibility that five years from today, I'll look back and kick myself, wondering if I could have made it. I'm also terrified about trying to find a job after having failed to grab the Ph.D., seeing as it'll likely be a strike against me in an already unfavorable employment climate.
I should note: My education has not cost me a dime. In the sciences (at least the science I work in), they can't possibly expect you to hold a job and do research at the same time. They pay us a monthly stipend (paltry, but it buys me food and housing), and so I've not pumped five and a half years of money into this process. The only thing I've done is wasted probably the best five and a half years of my life. Honestly, the whole process has cut me off socially, left me without time to peruse romantic interests, and quashed all hobbies and free time. I'm bitter about it, to say the least.
I won't deny that there is a real appeal to finishing. If I could do it, yes, I would totally wrap this shit up and grab that degree. If I thought it was possible, I wouldn't hesitate. But after all the pitfalls and roadblocks I've hit, and the terrible burn-out I'm mired in now, I just can't see it happening.
So there you have it, H/A. What's your opinion? Is it wise to bail on the Ph.D.? Or do I keep chipping at the iceberg in a vain attempt to make progress?
Sorry this is so long, but thank you to anyone who reads, and any advice that's given.
tl;dr - Getting a Ph.D. sucks. After five and a half years, I've not done sufficient work to deserve or earn a degree, and I've reached the limit of my tolerance. I want to leave, but leaving might very hard considering familial and professorial pressures causing a host of problems later on.
Five and a half years ago, I joined graduate school to peruse my Ph.D. degree. I don't want to get too specific about which one, or which field, but I will say that it was a physical science, and a highly experimental one. From the moment I started, it was grueling. Classes have made up only the smallest portion of my graduate experience: My school requires only four courses be taken at the graduate level. Those finish within the first six or so months of joining. After that, the rest of the degree-earning process involves hard research, and the publication of your findings.
The schedule is starting to wear on me after more than five years. A normal day in the lab starts at roughly eight in the morning. My professor (the guy I work for) claims that 'there are no hours' we are held to, but on multiple occasions he has complained loudly and bitterly when people are not in the lab before he's in his office, so the 8:00 AM start time is held to. We're allowed to take a one hour lunch break, and a two hour dinner break (My prof. has also complained about people taking 'extended dinners'). The day ends at midnight, if you're done with whatever you were doing. This is done six days a week. Sunday is the only day off, and "you don't have to take it off, and maybe you shouldn't sometimes" (Again, something my prof. has said). So, to put it mildly, the schedule is a bit of a bitch. Believe it or not, it's possible to adjust to it. Eventually around year three I grew accustomed to the hours, but lately I've been burning out on them.
So, for the past five and a half years, I've been trying my best to churn out research under these conditions. Here's the rub: I'm really bad at it. Compared to my peers, I'm pretty much the slowest horse on the track. I don't pick up on concepts quickly, I fall to pieces under pressure, and I'm one-hundred percent terrible at coming up with original research ideas on my own. I've basically been acting as my professor's 'hands' the whole time I've been here, taking suggestions that he's made about research and applying them at the experimental level. In some ways, this has worked: I have been able to publish, and it was a really nice publication. But it was a small publication, years ago, and the community is all about 'What have you done for us lately', more than anything else. My list of accomplishments is short, and now I'm faced with a rapidly expiring timer. Simply put, I'm supposed to get out of here, and soon. I've already had to petition the dean once to extend my registration beyond five years, so the signals are all there that I need to wrap things up. In order to leave, two things need to happen - I need to write original research proposals, and I need to compile a thesis.
The original research proposals SUCK. This is where I fail hardest of all. I'm supposed to write up three different scientific proposals, each detailing novel research that's never been presented or published before. I've been choking for months. Only through massive serendipity and considerable assistance was I able to get one proposal mostly done. It took me a solid month to write that single proposal, and that only came as a stroke of luck. Now that I'm sitting here, wondering what to do for the other two, I realize I'm fucking useless at this shit. I fritter away entire days just trying to come up with ideas, only to find out that they've already been done, have been done in a different and better way, or that the idea was just useless to begin with. I really feel like I can't manage to draft two more novel ideas. I just don't have the tools to come up with something completely original, and I certainly can't defend it in front of a committee of professors.
The thesis isn't going to be much better, either. Writing it all up is going to involve a lot of backtracking experimentation to solve questions that never seemed pertinent at that time. Just to explain what I mean by that: Usually on a project, we're trying to blow full-speed ahead. Other people might scoop us, and we want results as quickly as possible. Thus, if something interesting happens that's not 'on target' to the current project, or if we run into a dead end with an experiment somewhere, we drop it like a sack of bricks and scramble to find another way around the problem. That means we don't usually stop to get all the data - we just get enough data to tell us that our current line of investigation isn't going to work out. However, the totality of data is going to be necessary for me to write my thesis. That means re-running a lot of experiments that never worked, or led to dead-ends, and then even more work analyzing all of that data. To top it all off, as I said before I have one very small successful project. Most of the students who have already graduated ahead of me have completed two or three projects, and have written a thesis somewhere on the order of 400-500 pages. I'll be lucky if I can crack 100-200 at this point.
In light of how useless I've been in terms of writing proposals, how ignorant I repeatedly show myself to be, and considering how my thesis work feels lacking in comparison to my peers, I really don't feel like I've earned a Ph.D. in my time at graduate school. That fact, combined with the exhausting schedule and massive frustration, means that I just want out. I want to walk away from all this crap, because it's turned me against the science I used to be passionate about, turning something that used to be exciting and interesting into a kind of torture. I dread every deadline, and with all my friends and colleagues gone, I dread every day. I could go on at length in this post about how difficult and hostile I feel the working environment is, but I don't want to risk any incidents being recognized.
I have a huge problem with getting out, though. My family has been, by and large, very supportive of me in all I do. I love `em to pieces for all the help they've given me, but damn if they just don't understand a thing about how a Ph.D. is earned. Even after five and a half years, they don't understand that I have to go back to work after dinner, or that I have to work through Saturdays. To them, they think I'm 'so close' to getting the degree, when in effect I feel like I have 75% of the work ahead of me. They treat it like Highschool-Ex Mode or something. The fact that I made it to the end of five and a half years means, in their mind, that someone should just hand me a Ph.D. for perfect attendance or something like that. I've voiced my displeasure at the situation to them, and even though they've told me 'Do whatever you want', I'm getting seriously hostile vibes from all sides when I say I want to leave. 'Just suck it up', 'It's only a few more months', 'Can't you just finish?' shit like that, which is further evidence that they'll never understand the realities of what goes on here. I really want to bolt, but the anger I've felt in response to merely suggesting quitting makes me terrified. I can do whatever the hell I want, of course, but I fear alienating my family and living with shame for having disappointed them. I feel it's a justified move, but in their eyes, leaving while 'so close' to the end must be lazy and shiftless. A further, similar problem will be my professor. He'll gladly fail me if I can't get through this process up to his standards, but he'll never let me quit. It looks bad for him if people leave the group, so he never willingly lets anyone just pack up and go when they've had their fill. If anyone leaves, he'll never write a letter of recommendation for them, or serve as a positive reference. That makes getting a job in the field extremely difficult. The community of scientists in this field is very small, so word travels fast.
Another point is maybe I'm scared of what I'll feel like later. Right now, I can say with one-hundred percent confidence that there's no way in hell that I can make it to the end. I just don't see it happening. But I do fear the possibility that five years from today, I'll look back and kick myself, wondering if I could have made it. I'm also terrified about trying to find a job after having failed to grab the Ph.D., seeing as it'll likely be a strike against me in an already unfavorable employment climate.
I should note: My education has not cost me a dime. In the sciences (at least the science I work in), they can't possibly expect you to hold a job and do research at the same time. They pay us a monthly stipend (paltry, but it buys me food and housing), and so I've not pumped five and a half years of money into this process. The only thing I've done is wasted probably the best five and a half years of my life. Honestly, the whole process has cut me off socially, left me without time to peruse romantic interests, and quashed all hobbies and free time. I'm bitter about it, to say the least.
I won't deny that there is a real appeal to finishing. If I could do it, yes, I would totally wrap this shit up and grab that degree. If I thought it was possible, I wouldn't hesitate. But after all the pitfalls and roadblocks I've hit, and the terrible burn-out I'm mired in now, I just can't see it happening.
So there you have it, H/A. What's your opinion? Is it wise to bail on the Ph.D.? Or do I keep chipping at the iceberg in a vain attempt to make progress?
Sorry this is so long, but thank you to anyone who reads, and any advice that's given.
tl;dr - Getting a Ph.D. sucks. After five and a half years, I've not done sufficient work to deserve or earn a degree, and I've reached the limit of my tolerance. I want to leave, but leaving might very hard considering familial and professorial pressures causing a host of problems later on.
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A couple of thoughts off the top of my head:
1) What is the structure of your program like? In my program, while we have a specific research/faculty adviser, we have pretty much the rest of the department (@15 professors) as other sources of ideas/support/advice. I don't know that anyone in our department expects us to work for just that one professor, especially if we don't like them/aren't interested in the research they're doing. Also, the rest of the department looks bad when people 'graduate' ABD (all but dissertation)--our dean would bend over backwards to get us started on something to get us to fully graduate.
2) (and this is partially due to the field i'm going into) Have you considered talking to a counselor/therapist about this? I have to assume you have, but you didn't mention this in your OP. An academic counselor might have better ideas than you or your peers/family/jerk professor have thought of yet. And a psychologist (most universities have counseling centers that are free/drastically discounted for students) might be able to help with the burnout/despair going on there.
3) What's your program's policy on sabbatical/taking a leave of absence? I know our program has an unwritten caveat to the policy of "Continuous Study"; pregnancy or major personal issues (divorce/death/clinical depression) will often be looked upon as justification for taking a semester or year off and then coming back (obviously dependent on individual cases/situation).
4) Is this your evaluation or theirs? That seems overly harsh for someone who's put that much time in for five years--but I guess it depends on the program.
Again, these are not exactly well thought out; there's probably quite a few holes in these ideas, but as you hadn't mentioned any of them, I figure it's worth at least a clarification.
So, i guess my thought is, don't bail unless it's truly your last option. You've put in a metric butt-ton of work it sounds like, and (at least for me) not finishing it would be absolute torture later on. “For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'.” John Greenleaf Whittier
If you have concerns about how your candidature is going it's a good idea to let people know about it. Have you talked to other students in your group? Are they as burnt out by the workload as you seem to be?
- I don't know why you didn't post your school or your field. To be honest, it does make a lot of difference.
- ...that said, you're in an abusive relationship with your adviser, and some people thrive under that, but you're obviously wilting.
- From what you've said, you are definitely off-pace, and you're way off from having a shot at actually advancing
- I'm surprised the university hasn't got some form of damage control (for you and your professor) that hasn't forced you to advance or leave the uni.
- Why are you trying to get a PhD? It seems you want the PhD for the sake of having it. If you're not enjoying what you do now, there's no way you're going to enjoy your job in the future, because it's just going to get worse from here on out, with all the paperwork as a faculty member, or the pressure to produce in industry research labs.
- Are you able to claim you were All But Dissertation? My understanding is that industry is often OK with applicants being ABD.
I would suggest you cut your losses and exit ASAP. Your family will just have to accept that it didn't pan out, and if your adviser is bitter, try using a different faculty friend for your letter of recommendations.
Depending on the nature of the program it might be VERY easy to trace back who this is; how likely is that - probably not much.
As for quitting. Why? Are you quitting because its tough, or are you quitting because you can not in any way shape or form finish. One (in my opinion) is acceptable as you are limited by your ability. The other, is not. I am sorry but I can not believe that a PhD candidate would have made it this far had the lacked any ability. You may not be as whiz-bang as the folks around you, but that doesn't mean you CANT do the work (unless you genuinely can't and only you know that).
If you went 9 years non-stop of school, I can see being "burnt out", especially if you have sacrificed relationships. But you have to seriously (only you can do this) evaluate whether or not you are leaving for the right reasons.
2. Average length of a dissertation according to UMI is a little over 200 pages.
3. If you were failing to thrive in that environment or were not on track to finish in a reasonable time, your advisor should have talked with you about this...like sometime in year 1 or 2. At this point, you would have had the opportunity to change advisors (or institutions, or both) or drop out before you were too far down a bad path.
4. When your advisor failed to do #2 you would have done well to talk to an academic counselor or other faculty member about your concerns. However, because it's your first time through a PhD program, you're somewhat excused for not knowing. Your advisor bears the brunt of the responsibility.
5. Finishing with your current advisor may be realistic, maybe not. Changing advisors this late would be very unusual and I have no idea if you could do it without effectively restarting. Some other professor may have a higher opinion of your current work or a slightly more realistic view of what you need to do to get a PhD. Depending on how your current advisor thinks about you moving (vindictive? Indifferent?) he may or may not cause you interminable problems if you switch.
6. If you're not going to finish under any advisor, stop now. Getting a PhD and actually finishing already diminishes your lifeling earning; you get no more extra credit for almost-almost finishing than for just almost finishing.
7. You've expressed that you have difficulty grasping concepts and coming up with new ideas, but do you have any opinion as to why? Is it that you're in a terrifically old and difficult field where there is little low-hanging fruit? Is it that you just don't have a lot of passion for the field?
First, it is quite evident that your supervisor is completely unfit to be one. Those hours are completely insane, and I am very surprised that anyone would put up with it, especially for any length of time. It is in the nature of research that sometimes you just have to buckle up and do a lot of work in a limited amount of time, but that should be the exception and not the norm. When other Phd students at my former lab were stressed out, I jokingly used to say that "Science can not be stressed", but I was only half-joking as in order to come up with original ideas and insights you sometimes need to take a step back and actually just think about what you are doing. Don't be to hard on yourself, even though some persons might have done well under a supervisor such as yours, the fact that you have not says more about his or her capability as a supervisor than it does about you. The fact that such abusive persons are put into a position of authority makes me sick, as it is all to common that Phd students are seen as cheap labor in the eyes of supervisors, rather than as student on the way to becoming independent researchers given enough training and support.
Anyway, as for actual constructive advice, DrFrylock made good points. Ideally, you should have made this H/A thread four years ago, your options now depend on a few things.
1. Do you want to finish your Phd? I know that if I had spent so much time on something, I would want to finish it, no matter what. On the other hand, my reason for doing a Phd was that I wished to do science in order to increase the amount of knowledge in the world, and the way you do that is by publishing. The actual dissertation (and title) are only important if you want to go on doing research, and even then what you have published is way more important. If you can not see yourself doing research in the future, it might be for the best to just dropp the Phd studies and cut your losses, as Frylock said. Still, I would think long a hard about it before I took such drastic measures.
2. If you want to actually finish you Phd, you need to talk someone other than your supervisor. Your supervisor has already been grossly negligent, and I would be very suprised if he/she sees you as anything else than cheap labor right now. I have no idea how things work at your lab, but there must be someone you can talk to. Don't you have a co-supervisor? Maybe there is someone else you trust and have good contact with. Many universities have mentor systems for Phd-students, and at my old university there was also an ombudsman for Phd students. You need to find out what your options are for getting a new supervisor and wrapping up your studies, as these things vary wildly from place to place.
3. If you decide to finish your studies (or ending them), it is pretty much a given that there will be conflict with your present supervisor. The fact that you have been working for so long without making progress will reflect badly on him/her, and there is really nothing more to it. Do not make more enemies than you have to, but in your situation I would not count on being able to use your supervisor as a future reference.
4. Again, do not be to harsh on yourself no matter what you decide to do. I have several friends who did not finish their Phd studies, and they are certainly not doing badly.
Hope it works out for you in way or another, as someone who grew to genuinely dislike my supervisor, both as a person and as a scientist, during my last year of studies I can certainly relate.
The key question which you didn't answer in your OP was "Why am I doing a PhD?". If you can answer that then I think you'll be closer to seeing the best path to take. If you're doing it because you wanted a career in research, do you still want one now that you've seen what it's like? If you're doing it because you wanted to be able to get a better salary, is that salary worth putting up with the stress for however long it takes to finish? If you were interested in the subject, is that interest going to be enough to keep you going in a career, or is it something that might be better as a hobby? I think pride and shame are two emotions to be wary of here; scientific research is a career that a lot of people set their minds on early in life, and it is important to understand that it is in no way shameful if you decide it's not for you. It also does not mean you're stupid or inadequate - if anything, it shows you're smart enough not to put up with certain academics' bullshit ;-). If you have a welfare rep whose specific job it is to help students with problems, they should help you to answer this question for yourself.
As to the future, realise that even if you don't get the certificate at the end, you've still got a lot of experience that will count in the workplace. As long as you present it correctly, most potential employers won't see you as a flake: they'll see you as someone with a good bachelors degree and five years' worth of lab research experience. That will count for a lot. Your professor may be troublesome with the reference, but if you stay in the same field then chances are that everyone knows what he's like and will be sympathetic (if you've been to many conferences you might've got a decent impression of what other people think of him), and commercial firms will be similarly sympathetic to the fact that there was a personality clash as long as you're honest and upfront about it.
You're at a point where you are having to really reevaluate what your priorities in life are, and don't be ashamed if it turns out that they're not what you thought they were or what you thought they should be. The thing that helped me out of the same spot was realising that being seen as smart or being a good scientist didn't matter to me nearly as much as I thought it should: ironically, it was losing that fear of failing as a scientist that gave me the impetus to carry on and finish my PhD. I hope you find a solution that makes you happy too, even if your solution is completely different to mine. Good luck!
Statement: You're so close.
Question: Why did you want a PhD in the first place? Did you really want it on a personal satisfaction level? Do you really want it now? Can you transfer the work you've done to another institution that isn't run by crazy? Five years is a long time, have your own goals changed?
You have my sympathies. There was a lab on our campus with a PI like you describe, I always felt horrible for them.
Do you have a thesis committee?
Are the three proposals some sort of exit exam? Are they your quals? Or something else?
I'm not in exactly the same situation but I can commiserate. I spent nearly a month considering quitting my PhD program a bit ago. I took the time to talk to all sorts of different people getting PhDs and with PhDs at my school. In general the further along people were (and the closer to defending) the more they thought they were going to fail. Nobody I talked to felt like they were doing enough to earn a PhD. Nobody currently doing their PhD felt like it is worth it. People who were more than a year out from defending all thought it was worth it.
Without knowing your field it is hard to be more specific, but what you are feeling isn't uncommon, in my field, at least. You really need to talk with the head of your PhD program and/or the dean of your graduate college to figure out answers more specific to your situation.
First question why do you want a PhD in the first place? was it to avoid the real world for a little bit or do you honestly think it will help you out?
1. You fucked up majorly in you did not find a compatible PI to work with. to all Phd people, this is one of those things you need to know before picking a lab. some PI's expect you there all the time, others don't care so long as work gets done. obviously this guy is the former and it doesn't work or you. granted there may be other reasons you picked this lab but it wasn't a good fit for you. yes you can adapt to a certain degree but there is a fine line between adapting and burning out.
2. Time wise. honestly nothing substantial seems to happen the first 3-4 years or so anyways and the fact that you already have a paper is good. At this point you should be advanced to candidacy and doing dissertation work, is that where you are at? if not, then yea, you are probably behind, but depending on the program it isn't a big deal. I finished my degree in 6 years and that is pretty common. I don't know how long you think you will be done in, but you are really only halfway in.
3. Proposals. Assuming you mean a three paper option to be done correct? Honestly, getting 3 unique papers nowadays is hard as hell, especially in under 6 years. We had that option, but it wasn't a hard rule so long as you worked hard and got some stuff out, it was ultimately the PI's decision.
4. Family. They won't get it unless they have gone through it. Don't worry about them. worry about yourself and just shrug it off when they say stupid shit like that.
Ok. so you are burning out. it sucks but its inevitable when working in the sciences. Hell I burnt out twice, once while working for industry, and a semi burn out around year 3. You just need to find your motivation again. that being said, you really need to ask yourself why you are going for a PhD and ask yourself if its really worth it? Are you hoping to be faculty, run a lab etc?
Here is my suggestions and take them for what its worth. 1. Think about switching labs to a different one. You will need to see if that is even possible for your program; how much would that set you back; would it even make a difference?
2. See about opting out for a masters. Honestly not everyone is cut out for a PhD and there is no shame in that. a lot of the things you feel you are weakest in are things that a PhD must be able to do easily.
it would help if you were more specific rather than using the vagueness you did.
After school, I didn't want to go into grad school right away, I felt I needed more technical experiance. Using what xp I had I got a job at a very good lab near where I live. My boss knew I wanted to go back to school and thus took it upon himself to be my "teacher" similar to an advisor in a grad lab. Well, in doing this he very nearly killed my love of science. There were long hours (10+) every day. And he usually didn't show up until 10am, but I was expected to be there and working long before that. Weekends were also awful, and he pretty much expected me to be there every weekend (at least he gave me rides, but I think that was another way to control my behavior). Our relationship was also somewhat abusive, with him telling me how stupid I was on a regular basis, through snide comments about how many mistakes I made (even though I didn't really make that many).
Anyway, after working for him I realized grad school was not for me, and that I as a person was better suited to stay a technician since I had no interest in 1) writing grants, proposals, or publications and 2) thinking up novel experiments. It sounds like this is what you might be better off doing and someone in charge should have let you know that before you wasted so much of your time.
I'm sorry about your family being rather unsupportive. I was nervous too, when I told my mom I couldn't stay with my boss any longer and I definately didn't want to go back to school, but she supported me and told me I should do what I need to. I think though that if you explain to them what's going on and how you are being treated, they will come around (I know my mom hated my boss for being such an ass). But you need to leave, definately. Letters of recommendation don't have to come from your dick supervisor, just anyone who has seen you do work and knows you are a hard working person (so co-workers, other Ph.Ds that you've worked closely with). And take some time to just sit and think about where you want your life to go/what you actually WANT to do, because it took a long hard look at my life to realize I didn't really want to do what I was doing.
Only one publication after 5.5 years means there is something very wrong.
I am frankly fairly pissed off at your attitude after everyone here gave you decent advice, you said "oh thanks" and then went round on the blame merry-go-round again. I think your response to seeing a counselor is especially... middle school... and that you need to stop finding reasons not to go and to just bloody go. It's free, it's confidential, and it's why they are there. Counselors aren't even allowed to tell your professor that you are seeing them unless you are, or someone else is, in physical danger.
You need to become an adult, and not one of those graduate students that ends up staying in school to avoid the real world.
I'll take that to heart. I guess it was what I was afraid of. Thanks.
As a PhD student in an arts subject and in a different country I might be able to give you insight into how the other half live and maybe some pointers into how you might proceed. I will not tell you what to do other than maybe learn that you need to maintain clear expectations and communications with your supervisor.
First of all the positives, to have completed 5 and half years of research (and have had others kicked to the curb due to lack of productivity) is a sign that you do have what it takes. Your work ethic is not in question and frankly I think that the hours you do might be hampering your ability to complete. I know several other science PhD students in a variety of fields and none of them work as hard as you do.
My university has been very clear in what it expects of me and I have a personal tutor who is linked to me throughout my course to ensure that I am on track. I meet them once a month but I also know some science students who due to lab interactions can speak to their tutors on a more regular basis. Heck if i need to I can knock on my tutor's door and they'll talk to me.
You really seem to lack confidence in your ability to acheive. Passion is great and actually suprisingly rare in alot of people. For you to have put up with five and half years of hard work shows your passion for the subject. For me I used the a Myer's Brigg's Personality type indicator (MBti for short) to help me to understand where my personality type was in relation to my attitudes regarding work and how I process information. For example I am a non planner and intuitive and thus I often will have alot of energy when thinking of an idea than in actually executing said idea. Knowing how you actually work and not how your tutor expects you to work is going to be vital in you even getting close to finishing your thesis. This is not to say you should then rebel against your professor but that knowing what your strengths are will help you understand what needs to be done next.
I am working with the presumption that you want to complete the thesis. You really seem to lack the time to even think of creative new approaches to the topic let alone to flesh them out. Maybe a break of a few days would help you sit down away from the lab and look into areas that might be understudied and ripe for rexamination with more modern techniques or with new understandings of theory. Without a more precise understanding of your science we can't maybe give you something else to approach the topic with. Just looking at material in a different way is unique enough to satisfy my Viva committee, if I don't have any new revellations about my topic I have looked at new material and have given a new context to other areas.
Your skills seem to be based in solid research methods and application of scientific techniques. I feel your mind may have been frazzled by the intensity and unrelenting nature of the research. You should really take a step back and sit with your professor and see what needs to be done. Have some respect for your own well being, your tutor is there to help. Talk to him and express that you feel you lack creativity and see whether you can approach your current research from a new angle.
Ignore Lewisham, you really don't need someone telling you to suck it up after 5 years of work. You need to take stock of what needs to be done (via a fucking flow chart if necessary) and get some peer support. You don't want to be an academic so you don't need to worry about word getting out about you needing help. Employers won't give a fig.
Maybe a little bit more info about the topic of study? maybe we can give you some creative input? Explaining it to non peers (with a brain) sometimes helps to refocus what the hell you are researching in the first place.
That's the absolute opposite of what I've said. Sucking it up is what he's been doing for the last four years under the mistaken belief that it's going to all work out, and guess what, it hasn't. He needs to *man up* and actually take positive steps to change his situation rather than blaming everything or everyone else for keeping him locked in a place he doesn't want to be.