Spellpower also seems to increase the damage of spell-based weapon enchants, such as Flaming and Iced Weapons, and I'm assuming it also increases the armor penetration bonus of Telekinetic Weapons.
Alright I figured out some stuff last night and now the game is easier, but I need to know what I should be dumping my points into. Combat abilities are fairly intuitive, but what about the rest? Coercion, stealing, poisonmaking...?
I mean, I adore the game and all but lets be real here the main quests are hack and slash as all hell. Deep Roads anybody?
And I'm one who likes the Deep Roads.
When somebody says "hack and slash", I think of games like Diablo and Dungeon Siege. Not Baldur's Gate.
Let's be honest. DA:O is much closer to BG than it is to Diablo or DS. There are certainly scenes of extended combat, but that doesn't make it what I consider a "hack and slash."
That's fair. It's not a label that has a whole lot of significance so I'm not going to make a big deal out of interpreting it differently
But for me the Deep Roads kind of higlighted that "Wow I am doing kind of a whole fucking lot of fighting". And the Urn of Sacred Ashes. And Nature of the Beast.
It's like a 3:1 ratio of fighting to not fighting if not more, and for me that's enough to say hack 'n slash. I just don't consider that a bad thing is all.
Or we could not rehash the plot of Baldurs Gate and have fun exploring the vast setting they've laid out. That would probably be even better.
I haven't played Baldurs Gate, so hey, why don't you hush...please! :P
Anyhow, speaking of my next run, I'm gonna do an arcane warrior. What's most fun/awesome. Sword and board, duel wielding, or 2h?
Just sayin', what you describe would be such a blatant retread it's not even funny. I can't really get excited about that, it was already done once and it was awesome. Lets do something different.
It's not really any more of a retread than "you need to fight orcs and then kill a dragon". It's how the story is told, not what the story is. Personally I think it's a good plot hook. You could have the PC in the next game asked "what was your father like" and reply "he was the king" or "he was a gray warden" or whatever to fill in the plot. There are a lot of places to take that story that have nothing to do with Throne Of Bhall.
Don't you think that'd be a tiny bit restrictive on new origins? You wouldn't be able to have anything like we do now where
You have such a diverse array of origins that are all actually playing out regardless of which one you picked, the only difference being which one Duncan was present for. I thought that was clever.
It seems like a waste of an interesting new system that has plenty of room to mature.
That's a compelling point, I hadn't thought of that. There may be ways around it...
after all we don't know what Morrigan plans to do with the baby.
As an aside, I read an interview about Flemeth with Kate Mulgrew. She seemed to be genuinely interested in the project, it was refreshing. With a lot of actors who appear in games their opinions seem to extend as far as "and they cut me a check!"
As an aside, I read an interview about Flemeth with Kate Mulgrew. She seemed to be genuinely interested in the project, it was refreshing. With a lot of actors who appear in games their opinions seem to extend as far as "and they cut me a check!"
Perhaps you are referring to another Star Trek actress from a previous Bioware game who sounds awfully, awfully bored in her delivery?
DisruptorX2 on
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
Regarding Coercion and Cunning: you get 5 Cunning during the events of Broken Circle. That means that a Human, or any character with 11 Cunning, will have the requisite Cunning for Rank 4 Coercion assuming you pick up all these bonus stats.
Edit: the same is also true of Survival of course.
Alright I figured out some stuff last night and now the game is easier, but I need to know what I should be dumping my points into. Combat abilities are fairly intuitive, but what about the rest? Coercion, stealing, poisonmaking...?
My opinion on Skills:
Coercion if you're building a MC and don't mind dropping 16 CUN.
Stealing is super confusing. If you really want, there's a post on Bioware's Social Site detailing how many "Rogue points" you need.
Trap Making is nice for your party's Rogue, if only to increase the range at which they detect traps.
Survival if you have the CUN and don't need anything else.
Somebody needs Herbalism. Period. Preferably, they should be in your party so you can make potions as needed.
Poison-Making is nice for characters that mainly auto attack.
Combat Training is mandatory for Warriors and Rogues.
Combat Tactics is nice for characters you aren't playing that have a whole lot of different Talents (ie, Mages).
But would combat tactics not be replaced by liberal use of the pause button to issue more orders?
It's also possible that just how long and uninterrupted these FIGHT FIGHT segments are is what's coloring my perceptions.
Certain of those segments - the Deep Roads is certainly the worst offender - should have been broken up with role playing points. Like coming across a besieged dwarf patrol that was cut off from their unit, but have managed to hold on. You help 'em out of the initial rough spot, but there's a minor issue - like they're actually deserters, and you can either help them make up a story about how they got separated, or convince them to join the Legion of the Dead.
Just some sort of non-token NPC interaction to break up the horde of darkspawn.
Deep Roads:
You mean like Ruck, the Legion of the Dead, the demon you put back together, or the sword pieces? I really dug the deep roads.
I actually thought all the stuff you did before you even got to enter them was the long part. It was some good RPGing, but a little drawn out IMO. My major complaint though is that instead of exploring the awesome dwarven built deep roads we spent the majority of our time in samey side caves.
Alright I figured out some stuff last night and now the game is easier, but I need to know what I should be dumping my points into. Combat abilities are fairly intuitive, but what about the rest? Coercion, stealing, poisonmaking...?
My opinion on Skills:
Coercion if you're building a MC and don't mind dropping 16 CUN.
Stealing is super confusing. If you really want, there's a post on Bioware's Social Site detailing how many "Rogue points" you need.
Trap Making is nice for your party's Rogue, if only to increase the range at which they detect traps.
Survival if you have the CUN and don't need anything else.
Somebody needs Herbalism. Period. Preferably, they should be in your party so you can make potions as needed.
Poison-Making is nice for characters that mainly auto attack.
Combat Training is mandatory for Warriors and Rogues.
Combat Tactics is nice for characters you aren't playing that have a whole lot of different Talents (ie, Mages).
But would combat tactics not be replaced by liberal use of the pause button to issue more orders?
Probably, but none of the skills are *that* great to begin with anyway and there's little reason to overlap the crafting skills. You might want one guy with max poison/trap making/herbalism, but he doesn't have to be in your main party. Everyone else just needs 1 point to use that shit (or 0 for herbalism)... and chances are you don't need more than 1 guy to drop traps too :P
I found stealing pretty underwhelming and annoying (I might be blind, but there doesn't seem to be a way to use a tactic slot on stealing (360 version) which means a lot of self casting it for fights).
Alright I figured out some stuff last night and now the game is easier, but I need to know what I should be dumping my points into. Combat abilities are fairly intuitive, but what about the rest? Coercion, stealing, poisonmaking...?
My opinion on Skills:
Coercion if you're building a MC and don't mind dropping 16 CUN.
Stealing is super confusing. If you really want, there's a post on Bioware's Social Site detailing how many "Rogue points" you need.
Trap Making is nice for your party's Rogue, if only to increase the range at which they detect traps.
Survival if you have the CUN and don't need anything else.
Somebody needs Herbalism. Period. Preferably, they should be in your party so you can make potions as needed.
Poison-Making is nice for characters that mainly auto attack.
Combat Training is mandatory for Warriors and Rogues.
Combat Tactics is nice for characters you aren't playing that have a whole lot of different Talents (ie, Mages).
But would combat tactics not be replaced by liberal use of the pause button to issue more orders?
I honestly found Combat Tactics amazing once you got the hang of the scripting.
They're especially fantastic if you're playing as a Rogue who needs time to position properly and requires a more personal touch to make sure you don't die. Having Alastair automatically do what I want so that I don't have to makes everything flow more smoothly and is just a lot of fun.
Of course, Tactic #1 is always "If Health < 25% then Potion" and the last command on the list is always "Attack Nearest Thing" so that they're always doing SOMETHING, but the level of control you can wring out of that (admittedly) limited command sheet is just staggering to me.
Alright I figured out some stuff last night and now the game is easier, but I need to know what I should be dumping my points into. Combat abilities are fairly intuitive, but what about the rest? Coercion, stealing, poisonmaking...?
My opinion on Skills:
Coercion if you're building a MC and don't mind dropping 16 CUN.
Stealing is super confusing. If you really want, there's a post on Bioware's Social Site detailing how many "Rogue points" you need.
Trap Making is nice for your party's Rogue, if only to increase the range at which they detect traps.
Survival if you have the CUN and don't need anything else.
Somebody needs Herbalism. Period. Preferably, they should be in your party so you can make potions as needed.
Poison-Making is nice for characters that mainly auto attack.
Combat Training is mandatory for Warriors and Rogues.
Combat Tactics is nice for characters you aren't playing that have a whole lot of different Talents (ie, Mages).
But would combat tactics not be replaced by liberal use of the pause button to issue more orders?
I honestly found Combat Tactics amazing once you got the hang of the scripting.
They're especially fantastic if you're playing as a Rogue who needs time to position properly and requires a more personal touch to make sure you don't die. Having Alastair automatically do what I want so that I don't have to makes everything flow more smoothly and is just a lot of fun.
Of course, Tactic #1 is always "If Health < 25% then Potion" and the last command on the list is always "Attack Nearest Thing" so that they're always doing SOMETHING, but the level of control you can wring out of that (admittedly) limited command sheet is just staggering to me.
I haven't even opened the combat tactics screen yet I should probably take a look at it. I really liked FFXII's gambit system but figured that a mouse and keyboard would let me manage my party well enough I could use my points better on something else. I have noticed that sometimes my guys will just stand there doing nothing, so I'll have to fix that in any case.. although I'm not sure if that is a combat tactic issue, or just an AI problem
the last command on the list is always "Attack Nearest Thing" so that they're always doing SOMETHING, but the level of control you can wring out of that (admittedly) limited command sheet is just staggering to me.
This isn't necessary if you choose behaviour. Setting a character to aggressive renders this tactic redundant, for example.
Ruck was a nice touch, and exactly the sort of thing the Deep Roads needed more of. The Legion of the Dead were a slightly interactive Codex entry, and Asunder was a totally pointless side quest. Topsider's Honor was nice, but it's still a minor side quest.
This is hardly an issue confined to the deep roads. I think we can all agree the game would be better if a lot of the "fight, fight!" sections were trimmed and many of the stunted side quests were fleshed out.
I really hope the next game gets a bit more into the culture of the Elves. I like the setting a lot but I don't think we really know enough about Dalish culture for them to stand out. I mean, for example, how do they rationalize worshipping a pantheon of Creators that their own mythos declares to be imprisoned and impotent?
Answers like these would go a long way towards making them as interesting as the dwarves. Though to be fair I suppose they have an innate disadvantage when a large part of their shtick is "gobs and gobs of our history and culture is lost to us"
(Also it would have helped if the most boring main quest in the game wasn't attached to them, Nature of the Beast)
Ruck was a nice touch, and exactly the sort of thing the Deep Roads needed more of. The Legion of the Dead were a slightly interactive Codex entry, and Asunder was a totally pointless side quest. Topsider's Honor was nice, but it's still a minor side quest.
This is hardly an issue confined to the deep roads. I think we can all agree the game would be better if a lot of the "fight, fight!" sections were trimmed and many of the stunted side quests were fleshed out.
I don't mind some of the odd sidequests, but the Legion of the Dead ended in a weird way for me.
So you collect the armor, yay, but then when you put it on and click the spot a random boss jumps out and you kill it, then apparently there is a need to go out and purge the... stone? really? of random "bad spirits."
that just, whole part that ended the Legion of the Dead seemed really, REALLY random to me when their whole purpose was to redeem themselves by fighting against the darkspawn.
I really hope the next game gets a bit more into the culture of the Elves. I like the setting a lot but I don't think we really know enough about Dalish culture for them to stand out. I mean, for example, how do they rationalize worshipping a pantheon of Creators that their own mythos declares to be imprisoned and impotent?
Answers like these would go a long way towards making them as interesting as the dwarves. Though to be fair I suppose they have an innate disadvantage when a large part of their shtick is "gobs and gobs of our history and culture is lost to us"
(Also it would have helped if the most boring main quest in the game wasn't attached to them, Nature of the Beast)
I enjoyed that quest, if only for the crazy hermit and Grand Oak.
But yeah, the rest was pretty boring. And so few sidequests.
I just could not bring myself to give a shit about anything or anyone in Nature of the Beast. It was bog standard fantasy with almost nothing to make it feel like it was linked to the Dragon Age setting. The other main quests on the other hand had more Dragon Age specific lore to them, if that makes any sense.
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
edited December 2009
I've been having a lot more fun with this game once I started using the pause button liberally. I've also played with tactics a bit, but I'm still early on in the game so its pretty hard to get the other party members to do exactly what I want with just a few tactics slots.
The more I use the pause button, the more this feels like a turn-based sRPG, and that makes me a happy camper.
(Also it would have helped if the most boring main quest in the game wasn't attached to them, Nature of the Beast)
What? Lies. It's a classic tale of revenge gone too far.
Edit: this post and the one above it are a perfect example of why you should be afraid when Fiaryn and I agree.
It's not the gist of it that I have a problem with, it's the fact that it frankly doesn't need the Dragon Age setting at all nor tell us anything new about it. Nature of the Beast was a pretty run of the mill <fantasy elves> story and so I couldn't get very interested in it.
I guess this says a lot about why I enjoyed Dragon Age though. I enjoy Thedas and want to see more of it.
(Also it would have helped if the most boring main quest in the game wasn't attached to them, Nature of the Beast)
What? Lies. It's a classic tale of revenge gone too far.
Edit: this post and the one above it are a perfect example of why you should be afraid when Fiaryn and I agree.
It's not the gist of it that I have a problem with, it's the fact that it frankly doesn't need the Dragon Age setting at all nor tell us anything new about it. Nature of the Beast was a pretty run of the mill <fantasy elves> story and so I couldn't get very interested in it.
I guess this says a lot about why I enjoyed Dragon Age though. I enjoy Thedas and want to see more of it.
It's not the gist of it that I have a problem with, it's the fact that it frankly doesn't need the Dragon Age setting at all nor tell us anything new about it. Nature of the Beast was a pretty run of the mill <fantasy elves> story and so I couldn't get very interested in it.
I understood exactly what you said before, and I don't disagree, except that the only main quest line that felt at all "different" from standard fantasy fare was Orzammar. The ridiculous amount of politics, intrigue, and backstabbing was not something I'd seen before.
The Daelish are about separating themselves from the rest of society and their lost history. How better to illustrate that than a romp through a forest and some forgotten ruins?
It doesn't have to be different from fantasy fare to feel Dragon Age specific, as such. Take Redcliffe, it's
a zombie invasion, that's run of the mill stuff but the why and how of it is tied up in the nature of magic (and mages) in Dragon Age. Demons and their penchant for possessing magi, the way they are creatures of a single emotion patterned on whomever they posses and so forth. Nature of the Beast didn't have enough of those kinds of "markers" if that makes sense.
Also I'd have appreciated it if we actually learned something from those ruins, but we really didn't.
I never had a problem with the fighty-fightness of the Deep Roads, outside of the length really. With regards to the constant fighting, it makes sense, at least to me. You're in the heart of fucking darkness, it's been abandoned for centuries if not millennia and, with the exception of the Legion down there, enemies are everywhere. If anything it was the sections that were empty of enemies that felt strange and I had a problem with.
Unrelated:
I must have like some sort of curse when it comes to making money in this game. Is there some stat that governs the amount of gold you can get, or am I missing something? Because holy shit am I poor*. Seriously, expensive awesome vendor items should be boss/elite mob drops, not store stuff. I have friends who own the console version and they've had enough around level 14 or so to be able to buy the 148 gold staff, and then been able to go out and quest and make that gold back.
*never greater than 25 gold on my person at any given time.
Posts
Technically, IIRC, shields don't have a class requirement, do they?
That's fair. It's not a label that has a whole lot of significance so I'm not going to make a big deal out of interpreting it differently
But for me the Deep Roads kind of higlighted that "Wow I am doing kind of a whole fucking lot of fighting". And the Urn of Sacred Ashes. And Nature of the Beast.
It's like a 3:1 ratio of fighting to not fighting if not more, and for me that's enough to say hack 'n slash. I just don't consider that a bad thing is all.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
We better never meet, otherwise we may cause a spacial-temporal paradox. ;-)
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
They don't have a class requirement, but when have you ever seen a rogue use a shield? I don't think there are any NPC rogues that use them.
Didn't you
small and dinky.
That's a compelling point, I hadn't thought of that. There may be ways around it...
As an aside, I read an interview about Flemeth with Kate Mulgrew. She seemed to be genuinely interested in the project, it was refreshing. With a lot of actors who appear in games their opinions seem to extend as far as "and they cut me a check!"
Perhaps you are referring to another Star Trek actress from a previous Bioware game who sounds awfully, awfully bored in her delivery?
Edit: the same is also true of Survival of course.
LOL. My God, she was teeeeeeeerrible. Just completely unsuited to the role.
But would combat tactics not be replaced by liberal use of the pause button to issue more orders?
Deep Roads:
I actually thought all the stuff you did before you even got to enter them was the long part. It was some good RPGing, but a little drawn out IMO. My major complaint though is that instead of exploring the awesome dwarven built deep roads we spent the majority of our time in samey side caves.
edited for clarity
After spending a significant amount of time with Demon's Souls, I was very disappointed with this game's "tower" shields.
Probably, but none of the skills are *that* great to begin with anyway and there's little reason to overlap the crafting skills. You might want one guy with max poison/trap making/herbalism, but he doesn't have to be in your main party. Everyone else just needs 1 point to use that shit (or 0 for herbalism)... and chances are you don't need more than 1 guy to drop traps too :P
I found stealing pretty underwhelming and annoying (I might be blind, but there doesn't seem to be a way to use a tactic slot on stealing (360 version) which means a lot of self casting it for fights).
I honestly found Combat Tactics amazing once you got the hang of the scripting.
They're especially fantastic if you're playing as a Rogue who needs time to position properly and requires a more personal touch to make sure you don't die. Having Alastair automatically do what I want so that I don't have to makes everything flow more smoothly and is just a lot of fun.
Of course, Tactic #1 is always "If Health < 25% then Potion" and the last command on the list is always "Attack Nearest Thing" so that they're always doing SOMETHING, but the level of control you can wring out of that (admittedly) limited command sheet is just staggering to me.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
I haven't even opened the combat tactics screen yet
This isn't necessary if you choose behaviour. Setting a character to aggressive renders this tactic redundant, for example.
Goddammit Morrigan, stop Cone of Colding me.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
It would have been funny if it turned out to be hugely important.
Like, you get out of the Deep Roads, and everyone in Orzammar has been killed because you needed that 25 gold. Or at least a mention in the epilogue.
Maybe if you do Orzammar first and let him go he shows up in the Circle or later in the fade or something? That would be interesting.
However, I must admit I was somewhat disappointed that it didn't come up in the epilogue.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
This is hardly an issue confined to the deep roads. I think we can all agree the game would be better if a lot of the "fight, fight!" sections were trimmed and many of the stunted side quests were fleshed out.
Answers like these would go a long way towards making them as interesting as the dwarves. Though to be fair I suppose they have an innate disadvantage when a large part of their shtick is "gobs and gobs of our history and culture is lost to us"
(Also it would have helped if the most boring main quest in the game wasn't attached to them, Nature of the Beast)
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I don't mind some of the odd sidequests, but the Legion of the Dead ended in a weird way for me.
that just, whole part that ended the Legion of the Dead seemed really, REALLY random to me when their whole purpose was to redeem themselves by fighting against the darkspawn.
I enjoyed that quest, if only for the crazy hermit and Grand Oak.
But yeah, the rest was pretty boring. And so few sidequests.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
The more I use the pause button, the more this feels like a turn-based sRPG, and that makes me a happy camper.
Thats why this and BG/2 are examples of how you make a good RPG. "Real time" need not mean mindless.
It's not the gist of it that I have a problem with, it's the fact that it frankly doesn't need the Dragon Age setting at all nor tell us anything new about it. Nature of the Beast was a pretty run of the mill <fantasy elves> story and so I couldn't get very interested in it.
I guess this says a lot about why I enjoyed Dragon Age though. I enjoy Thedas and want to see more of it.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Real men use a targe shield for more Gladiator and 300 reinactments anyhow.
I really liked the Deep Roads, I'm just in to those long ass dungeons I guess.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Also, I thought they were awesome so....there's that.
Fiaryn, I have a question for you.
(Not a DA spoiler)
I enjoyed the Deep Roads. Its a nice, long dungeon with at least 3 tough bosses.
I do agree with the complaint that you don't really get a sense of scale, though. None of it feels any "deeper" than any other part.
It doesn't have to be different from fantasy fare to feel Dragon Age specific, as such. Take Redcliffe, it's
Also I'd have appreciated it if we actually learned something from those ruins, but we really didn't.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Too many spiders.
I never had a problem with the fighty-fightness of the Deep Roads, outside of the length really. With regards to the constant fighting, it makes sense, at least to me. You're in the heart of fucking darkness, it's been abandoned for centuries if not millennia and, with the exception of the Legion down there, enemies are everywhere. If anything it was the sections that were empty of enemies that felt strange and I had a problem with.
Unrelated:
I must have like some sort of curse when it comes to making money in this game. Is there some stat that governs the amount of gold you can get, or am I missing something? Because holy shit am I poor*. Seriously, expensive awesome vendor items should be boss/elite mob drops, not store stuff. I have friends who own the console version and they've had enough around level 14 or so to be able to buy the 148 gold staff, and then been able to go out and quest and make that gold back.
*never greater than 25 gold on my person at any given time.
I WILL DESTROY YOU