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Minaret Ban in Switzerland?

2456763

Posts

  • .. Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited November 2009
    I know it's horrible, but that sheep poster makes me laugh. As in, if there was no backstory, the sheep are cute.

    . on
    Gimme stuff. Please. And I don't just mean my Secret Satan.
  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    But the minarets go next to mosques. It's kind of hard to not notice a mosque.

    Synthetic Orange on
    Death to PA.
  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    they've been trying to get this ban through since 2007.

    The question I have is how exactly are they defining a minaret? I mean, it's a tower. Hell, some of them have even doubled as light houses.

    This is a bad day for mariners.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    sweden being insular is not somehow new

    PiptheFair on
  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    sweden

    :mrgreen:

    Zephyr on
    16kakxt.jpg
  • #pipe#pipe Cocky Stride, Musky odours Pope of Chili TownRegistered User regular
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    sweden being insular is not somehow new

    good thing we're not talking about sweden at all

    #pipe on
  • Synthetic OrangeSynthetic Orange Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Synthetic Orange on
    Death to PA.
  • FabricateFabricate __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2009
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    Fabricate on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    why did I say sweden when I meant switzerland

    why am I sober and being dumb

    PiptheFair on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Fabricate wrote: »
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    if only islam were a race

    PiptheFair on
  • Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Across the country, there are only two small minarets, one in Zurich and one in Geneva, neither of which are permitted to make the call to prayer. In Switzerland's capital Berne, the largest mosque is in a former underground car park.


    Er, from BBC

    So I need to edit my op then...
    and change the word Mosque to Minaret.
    Ah mistakes.

    Still, its pretty insane that a fear campaign (over a a Muslim push for political power) could be waged over a Muslim population that weighs in at about 350,00

    nazi germany proved that it is really fucking easy to blame everything wrong on your country on a group that is a fraction of a percentage of your population if you vigorously otherize them

    is otherise a word? whatevs I don't care.

    edit: whoops

    Randall_Flagg on
  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Interesting. Apparently the ban could have ramifications for Switzerland's relationship to the European Union, because it may violate international law in some way.

    http://brill.publisher.ingentaconnect.com/content/mnp/rhrs/2008/00000003/00000002/art00002

    Unfortunately I am not spending $25.00 to delve further into that issue.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    gazamc wrote: »
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    gazamc wrote: »
    Its not like they are banning the building of Mosques or forbidding people from practicing the religion. Sure its harsh, but its not that terrible.

    Minarets are an integral part of mosques.

    Well from a little googling there are apparently over 100 mosques in Switzerland, but only 4 Minarets. So they can't be that crucial.

    The more conservative mosques don't build them and in some towns they aren't allowed to do the calls to prayer from them (issues with how loud it is) so they do the calls elsewhere. Minarets do serve a purpose but not all mosques are able to make use of them.

    Traditionally, the minaret is used so that the call to prayer can be heard over the entire area the mosque serves.

    In practice, this has become about has practical and as vital as using church bells to notify a congregation that service has begun. At the same time, it's about as harmful. Maybe some people might be annoyed that the morning call is so early, but unless they use loudspeakers (common in Muslim countries, not so common in the West) it's not likely to cause any significant bother compared to normal city noise.

    There are often other concerns, as its intent is as much to give all (Muslim or otherwise) an opportunity to hear some basic tenets of Islam as it is to notify the believers that it is time to pray. Some people are easily offended, and so may object to this use. Most Western mosques make the call in Arabic, though, so any objection on this basis is even less rational than usual.

    Since the call to prayer can be (and often is) made without a minaret, any argument on that basis is tenuous at best. Really, though I'm normally hesitant to jump to this sort of conclusion, it seems most likely that it's intended to unabashedly anti-muslim as the op suggests. This sort of thing has no place in any free society.

    I'm inherently distrustful of any attempt to limit peaceful religious expression, so I may not be the most objective in this matter.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • FabricateFabricate __BANNED USERS
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    if only islam were a race

    They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony

    Fabricate on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Fabricate wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    if only islam were a race

    They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony

    if only there were white muslims

    PiptheFair on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Zoel wrote: »
    Interesting. Apparently the ban could have ramifications for Switzerland's relationship to the European Union, because it may violate international law in some way.

    It's not really an issue of international law, but it could be seen as a violation of the EU's religious freedom mandate, which all member nations are required to abide by. It's not going to be a "whoops, you're out" sorta deal, but it'll make things pretty tense and will definitely piss off Turkey, who's been courting the EU for membership for some time.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms

    PiptheFair on
  • Chompskers.Chompskers. Registered User
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    if only islam were a race

    They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony

    if only there were white muslims

    Chompskers. on
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  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    HAhaha

    yeah this is dumb

    Swiss people are dumb except those who live in primarily french speaking cantons (since all of them opposed it.)

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_57616.shtml
    "Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
    "Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."

    ahahaha

    forced marriages are bad therefore FUCK MINARETS.

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • Chompskers.Chompskers. Registered User
    edited November 2009
    Zoel wrote: »
    HAhaha

    yeah this is dumb

    Swiss people are dumb except those who live in primarily french speaking cantons (since all of them opposed it.)

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_57616.shtml
    "Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
    "Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."

    ahahaha

    forced marriages are bad therefore FUCK MINARETS.


    LOGIC

    Chompskers. on
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  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    "The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They noted that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets."

    This is the problem with military metaphors. While they'll generally be understood by those they're addressed to as a call to action, someone outside the intended audience will inevitably twist it into something more literal and much more disturbing.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Fabricate wrote: »
    white europeans are racist?

    no

    fucking

    way

    if only islam were a race

    They're banning the construction of structures due to an imagined power struggle within the state by a small population that will primarily be non-white, or is at least associated with persyns of color, and possibly antagonistic to white hegemony

    if only there were white muslims

    THAT IS NOT RACIST

    holy fuck

    people who overuse "racist" make me want to murder whiny, white-guilt shitheads more than I normally do

    PiptheFair on
  • unintentionalunintentional smelly Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    I often use racist and discriminatory to mean the same thing and then realize that I meant discriminatory.

    sorry pip

    unintentional on
  • The Far SideThe Far Side __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    w20m82.jpg w20m82.jpg muslims w20m82.jpg w20m82.jpg - the swiss

    The Far Side on
    33aqfwk.jpg
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    Zoel wrote: »
    HAhaha

    yeah this is dumb

    Swiss people are dumb except those who live in primarily french speaking cantons (since all of them opposed it.)

    http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_57616.shtml
    "Forced marriages and other things like cemeteries separating the pure and impure - we don't have that in Switzerland, and we do not want to introduce it," Ulrich Schlueer, co-president of the Initiative Committee to ban minarets, said.
    "Therefore, there's no room for minarets in Switzerland."

    ahahaha

    forced marriages are bad therefore FUCK MINARETS.
    heh

    PiptheFair on
  • Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User
    edited November 2009
    you just can't use enough of that emoticon, can you, TFS?

    and before you answer, let me guess:
    w20m82.jpgw20m82.jpgthat emoticonw20m82.jpgw20m82.jpg-Randall Fagg

    Randall_Flagg on
  • The Far SideThe Far Side __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    racism in switzerland? that is unhe-

    24oplbt.jpg

    The Far Side on
    33aqfwk.jpg
  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms

    refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?

    what?

    MrMonroe on
  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    wait are they saying that muslims are furries

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • Chompskers.Chompskers. Registered User
    edited November 2009
    My favorite part of that cartoon is the happy sun on the bottom.

    That might be my favorite political logo ever.

    Chompskers. on
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  • ZoelZoel I suppose... I'd put it on Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    our political party had no money so we stole our logo from a dairy farm

    Zoel on
    A magician gives you a ring that, when worn, will let you see the world as it truly is.
    However, the ring will never leave your finger, and you will be unable to ever describe to another living person what you see.
  • DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2009
    Zoel wrote: »
    muslims are furries

    death to the muslim race

    Unknown User on
  • The Far SideThe Far Side __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    The_Scarab wrote: »
    Here are the posters you mentioned in the OP.

    udc%2Ben%2Bsuisse%2B-%2Bmouton%2Bnoir.JPG

    photo_1254925717595-1-0.jpg

    aw i was beaten to posting these, shoot

    The Far Side on
    33aqfwk.jpg
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms

    refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?

    what?

    not when it's superfluous and mosques exist without it, no

    PiptheFair on
  • laughingfuzzballlaughingfuzzball Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms

    Some Muslims see the minaret as vital to the practice of their religion, if only in a symbolic way.

    As soon as a government tries to set forth what is and is not a vital part of a religion, it loses the ability to make any good-faith claim to religious freedom.

    laughingfuzzball on
  • ZephyrZephyr Registered User
    edited November 2009
    ban church steeples

    Zephyr on
    16kakxt.jpg
  • Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User
    edited November 2009
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    also, mosques can still exist and there is no abridgment of religious freedoms

    refusing to allow someone to build a particular religious structure because it's from a religious tradition they don't like doesn't count as an abridgment of freedom to you?

    what?

    not when it's superfluous and mosques exist without it, no

    um that doesn't mean it's okay

    for example! The star of David is not required in the Jewish faith to be displayed anywhere, so by your logic banning the use of that star on all buildings wouldn't be an abridgment of religious freedom

    BUT IT TOTALLY WOULD

    Randall_Flagg on
  • Spectre-xSpectre-x Registered User regular
    edited November 2009
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34191036/ns/world_news-europe/

    So, apparently the Swiss have moved to ban the construction of Minarets in the country?
    Like, through popular support.

    A Minaret is one of these:
    1260181-Minaret-of-the-Grand-Friday-Mosque--Male-1.jpg

    The campaign for it was apparently largely based on the idea that there was an internal push for power by the Muslim population within the state, even though there is only a six percent Muslim population, and only twenty percent of those Muslims practice



    Oh,
    and holy crap
    The People's Party has campaigned mainly unsuccessfully in previous years against immigrants with campaign posters showing white sheep kicking a black sheep off the Swiss flag and another with brown hands grabbing eagerly for Swiss passports.
    "The minaret is a sign of political power and demand, comparable with whole-body covering by the burqa, tolerance of forced marriage and genital mutilation of girls," the sponsors said. They noted that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has compared mosques to Islam's military barracks and called "the minarets our bayonets."

    So um,





    What the fuck?

    Man!

    Fucking Switzerland, man!

    Spectre-x on
    Sig_link_image.jpg
  • The Far SideThe Far Side __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2009
    t spex:

    Wilders.jpg

    The Far Side on
    33aqfwk.jpg
  • Chompskers.Chompskers. Registered User
    edited November 2009
    gig-swiss-knife.jpg

    Chompskers. on
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This discussion has been closed.