I didn't have three friends with three GBA's. I was attending college at the time, so it was all Metal Gear and Xbox and so forth. In my peer group Nintendo was far below the radar.
Also I read a Wiki that said Selkies are in fact 12 year olds who develop early, so.....:?
I had lots of friends with GBs and I still couldn't get into Crystal Chronicles. The gameplay felt terribly restrictive & repetitive since you're stuck with horrible controllers that lack analog sticks or enough buttons, having to cart around the protection sphere everywhere you go was a pain, and though the graphics were technically fantastic, I hated the art style. My friends loved the game, but I only lasted a couple hours before I gave up on it.
On the other hand, Zelda 4 Swords was a ton of fun. An updated version with online play would rock if the Wii's online wasn't so bad.
I dunno about you guys, but the only part about FFVII I actually enjoyed even a bit was the entire intro and Midgar exploration. The opening scene, and then the scene where Cloud busts out of there with a motorcycle, the rest of the co. trailing behind in a truck? Epic. Amazing. Deserves to be on any list of "most amazing Final Fantasy moments".
See I don't see how FFVII doesn't "truly start" until you leave Midgar. Midgar is such a pinnacle of dystopic Blade Runner ecstasy, so different from any other city you've ever experienced in an RPG, and then... you almost never see it again. I'm in the (albeit small) group that FF7 would have been perfect had it stayed in Midgar. The other places you venture to just seem so far disconnected from Midgar and that's when the plot begins to just unravel at the seams.
Midgar was my favorite part of FF7 as well. Heck, I downloaded FF7 when I bought my PSP Go, played through the Midgar part, and haven't touched the game since. I'll get around to it sometime...
See I don't see how FFVII doesn't "truly start" until you leave Midgar. Midgar is such a pinnacle of dystopic Blade Runner ecstasy, so different from any other city you've ever experienced in an RPG, and then... you almost never see it again. I'm in the (albeit small) group that FF7 would have been perfect had it stayed in Midgar. The other places you venture to just seem so far disconnected from Midgar and that's when the plot begins to just unravel at the seams.
I have to agree, FF7 isn't a bad game but it could've been a great game if they kept it all in Midgar. They implied it was big enough anyways.
The end would've been less pissy too, you see the city you spent the entire game in ravaged instead of the place you just happened to start in.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
Final Fanasty VII is my least favorite of the PS1 trilogy. I think that it is in fact because of how awesome the Midgar section is, and then like you said, the rest of the game is so different from that, that it dissapointed me a large bit.
I don't mind that the game left Midgar. In fact, I think it was necessary to show how large an effect Shin-Ra had on the entire planet. I do think, however, that it's a shame the game never really returns there. There are a couple of moments that I can remember - post arctic Sephiroth reveal (actually, was that Midgar or Junon?) and dealing with Hojo - but nothing substantial.
It's a shame, too, as Midgar felt like the most developed area of the game.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
My biggest problem with it was that the plot really fell apart after the first disc.
But that's ok, I'm one of the few that liked FFVIII the best and FFIX only slightly less than FFVIII.
See I don't see how FFVII doesn't "truly start" until you leave Midgar. Midgar is such a pinnacle of dystopic Blade Runner ecstasy, so different from any other city you've ever experienced in an RPG, and then... you almost never see it again. I'm in the (albeit small) group that FF7 would have been perfect had it stayed in Midgar. The other places you venture to just seem so far disconnected from Midgar and that's when the plot begins to just unravel at the seams.
I have to agree, FF7 isn't a bad game but it could've been a great game if they kept it all in Midgar. They implied it was big enough anyways.
The end would've been less pissy too, you see the city you spent the entire game in ravaged instead of the place you just happened to start in.
Exactly! The destruction of Midgar would have had a huge impact on players if we never left the city. You could have incorporated Sephiroth's plot into Midgar easily -- hell, they did it with verve and grace in the ShinRa HQ. I personally don't care about the rest of VII's world. Midgar is filled with possibilities. It could have been the perfect Blade Runner jRPG.
It just decided to suddenly be a jRPG again and throw in random, useless towns that don't move the plot ever (like Kalm, Icicle Inn... I'd even argue Junon, North Corel, and Costa del Sol are nothing more than slight bumps in the road plot-wise), traditional dungeon crawling, and a mediocre ending.
However!
If the game had stayed in Midgar, explored its Sectors in-depth, nail the point home of a destructive society that is so technologically advanced that it is destroying itself... it would have been amazing. Purely amazing. Hopefully we'll see something like that in the future in a jRPG, particularly with games like Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles breaking out from the paradigm.
I like Midgar, prefer the larger world despite the less detailed maps, think the story falls apart about halfway through the second disk, like Cloud's story arc, like the mini games, love the music. Think that the game needs a new translation and updated visuals at the least, and a new ending would be spiffy.
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
edited December 2009
You mean it needs an actual ending?
The 'ending' of the game was so anticlimatic, it wasn't even funny.
The nobody-towns in VII didn't feel substantially different from any other jRPG. I mean, the towns in VI were no more developed than anything in VII. It seemed par for the course, in my experience.
See, that's the thing, if FFVII stayed in Midgar we wouldn't even think of that trope being in the game. Instead, we have pointless meandering (really, the plot does just meander) up until the Forgotten City.
See, that's the thing, if FFVII stayed in Midgar we wouldn't even think of that trope being in the game. Instead, we have pointless meandering (really, the plot does just meander) up until the Forgotten City.
Is it worse in 7 than other RPGs, or is it just that Midgar sets the bar higher than the rest of the game?
How spoiler-heavy were the discussions? I avoided the other thread, and I'm hoping none of that carries over here.
Anyway, I didn't have a problem leaving Midgar, as it was likely that the other sectors would've been more of the same, making things too redundant. I do wish it focused more on Shinra Inc, though, so we'd get more of our Midgar fill while Cloud and company hiked across the world.
Edit: So it seems like FFXIII is selling quite well in Japan, despite misgivings by some. If a numbered FF title couldn't pass mustard these days, then Japan's in worse shape than I thought.
Out of curiosity, though, what's been the top selling first-week sales for FF games? I remember when GameFan made a big ruckus over FFVII's 2 million in 2 days accomplishment, but I don't think that was the best selling game from the series. Anyone got any official stats?
See, that's the thing, if FFVII stayed in Midgar we wouldn't even think of that trope being in the game. Instead, we have pointless meandering (really, the plot does just meander) up until the Forgotten City.
Is it worse in 7 than other RPGs, or is it just that Midgar sets the bar higher than the rest of the game?
The latter. Midgar sets an impossibly high bar for atmosphere and depth that the rest of the game scrambles to achieve, just falling short.
FFVII sold the most in the first week out of the franchise, and I don't think any other FF has matched it.
Was that the part with the giant clock? I can't recall what makes it an exceptional part of the game, except for the part where Cait Sith dies (except that he doesn't). I guess the giant wall battle was ok too I guess.
How spoiler-heavy were the discussions? I avoided the other thread, and I'm hoping none of that carries over here.
Anyway, I didn't have a problem leaving Midgar, as it was likely that the other sectors would've been more of the same, making things too redundant. I do wish it focused more on Shinra Inc, though, so we'd get more of our Midgar fill while Cloud and company hiked across the world.
Edit: So it seems like FFXIII is selling quite well in Japan, despite misgivings by some. If a numbered FF title couldn't pass mustard these days, then Japan's in worse shape than I thought.
Out of curiosity, though, what's been the top selling first-week sales for FF games? I remember when GameFan made a big ruckus over FFVII's 2 million in 2 days accomplishment, but I don't think that was the best selling game from the series. Anyone got any official stats?
Most of the discussions were regarding linearity anyways. If anyone does post plot spoilers I'm going to gut them like a fish.
How spoiler-heavy were the discussions? I avoided the other thread, and I'm hoping none of that carries over here.
Anyway, I didn't have a problem leaving Midgar, as it was likely that the other sectors would've been more of the same, making things too redundant. I do wish it focused more on Shinra Inc, though, so we'd get more of our Midgar fill while Cloud and company hiked across the world.
Edit: So it seems like FFXIII is selling quite well in Japan, despite misgivings by some. If a numbered FF title couldn't pass mustard these days, then Japan's in worse shape than I thought.
Out of curiosity, though, what's been the top selling first-week sales for FF games? I remember when GameFan made a big ruckus over FFVII's 2 million in 2 days accomplishment, but I don't think that was the best selling game from the series. Anyone got any official stats?
Most of the discussions were regarding linearity anyways. If anyone does post plot spoilers I'm going to gut them like a fish.
Well, I'll bite, how linear is it? Someone mentioned a huge straight path for most of Cocoon, but what about the Pulse portions?
You guys are crazy. Midgar was great, but better than everything else in the game? Temple of the Ancients!
Yawn. The only thing that even comes close is the Forgotten City, and that's because it is utterly alien, just like Midgar is (in comparison to the rest of the world).
You guys are crazy. Midgar was great, but better than everything else in the game? Temple of the Ancients!
Yawn. The only thing that even comes close is the Forgotten City, and that's because it is utterly alien, just like Midgar is (in comparison to the rest of the world).
So I was thinking, now that we've had retrospectives and talked about the whole series, the spin-offs, and now we're into the latest two titles to feature the FF name....what does it all mean?
Of course this is entirely subjective, but with the internet once again awash in "This is not the FF I loved!" nonsense that comes about with every single main game release, I thought it a good time to talk about what we expect in an FF title.
So, instead of using a particular game, let's just say that tomorrow SE announces Final Fantasy XV, but without a logo or a screenshot or even artwork.
What's the first thing that pops into your head as far as what you expect to see in the game? Is there a particular gameplay element that defines the series for you? Maybe it's just the iconic monsters and spells? Or perhaps your first thought is of who they'll get to sing the unnecessary JPOP track?
For me, my first thought is generally "Yay!", because regardless of what I do and do not like in a given FF game, they have time and again been games that I know I can safely through down full retail price on with a second thought. I know I will come away from it having enjoyed my time with the game, and generally thinking positively of it, even if it rarely makes my game of the year list.
Beyond that, all I expect at this point is that the combat will be different from last time, there's likely to be at least one drastic change that completely alters the way character advancement works, and that there'll be a lot of creatures and spells and even locations that reference the previous games.
I wouldn't say I'm particularly attached to any one element of the series beyond the high quality of the games, and the continuing trend of being at the top of the pile in a given generation of JRPGs. This is doubly true this generation, which has seen some decent games, but nothing which has really blown me away in terms of gameplay or story, and many which have made me wonder why I even play these games (Star Ocean, I'm looking at you)
Man, being sick and on vacation means I miss all the interesting discussions.
What I expect from Final Fantasy games are a moving story, good music, and tactical turn-based combat.
This is why FFXII disappointed me so very much. And why FFXIII's combat system scares me.
Spoiler to hide my complaining:
I've never played a game where you can't control your entire party that I would describe as "tactical". They always turn out one of two ways:
1) Mash buttons while you hope your teammates are competent
2) Do all the work with a single character and ignore the rest.
Even games like FFXII and Dragon Age where you can control the other characters (but only one at a time), have the problem that it inevitably degrades into you micromanaging the healer. I played a healer in WoW, so I'm covered on that for a lifetime.
To be fair, FFXIII's combat does sound intriguing, so I'm certainly willing to give it a chance.
To anyone who's played it, how's the music? Is it great, or at least better than FFXII?
The thing is, it's not like you're just leaving your characters up to the whim of the computer. You have full control over what they do. If you want them to stop attacking, switch Paradigms. Simple as that. If you want them to heal, switch Paradigms.
You guys are crazy. Midgar was great, but better than everything else in the game? Temple of the Ancients!
Yawn. The only thing that even comes close is the Forgotten City, and that's because it is utterly alien, just like Midgar is (in comparison to the rest of the world).
The Forgotten City's music is probably my favorite track in the game.
korodullin on
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You guys are crazy. Midgar was great, but better than everything else in the game? Temple of the Ancients!
Yawn. The only thing that even comes close is the Forgotten City, and that's because it is utterly alien, just like Midgar is (in comparison to the rest of the world).
The Forgotten City's music is probably my favorite track in the game.
The nobody-towns in VII didn't feel substantially different from any other jRPG. I mean, the towns in VI were no more developed than anything in VII. It seemed par for the course, in my experience.
It could be entirely an accident, but I think the emptiness in FFVII really accentuates the overall oppressive and hopeless atmosphere of the game.
The thing is, it's not like you're just leaving your characters up to the whim of the computer. You have full control over what they do. If you want them to stop attacking, switch Paradigms. Simple as that. If you want them to heal, switch Paradigms.
And the Paradigms are what's intriguing to me. I wouldn't call that full control though.
In theory you had full control over you party in FFXII, but only in theory (Penelo, why are you casting Fire on that Bomb?). Dragon Age was a lot better (more conditions, controlling a character overrides tactics, no need to assign attack), but still had the same problems (Argh, stop standing in the Blizzard Alistair!).
The 'ending' of the game was so anticlimatic, it wasn't even funny.
I thought VII ended with humanity being wiped out from the earth, and only the trees and animals were left to enjoy their new playground.
Then Advent Children came out, and I was like, "oh".
Edit: In retrospect, maybe that's why I thought the end was so depressing.
Isn't the 'real end' of FFVII, the part with Red XIII and his kids, way farther in the future after Advent Children? I mean, it states that this is the world 500 years from that point, and it implies that humanity never returned to Midgar, at least.
gjaustin - There's no automation, which is what ultimately broke FFXII wide open for me and bored me. FFXIII keeps you engaged, taking the best of FFX-2 (fast action, having to input commands) and FFXII (catch-all Gambits) and melds them together into a very solid battle engine.
The numbers from the PS3 bundle have now been included in total sales. We're looking at 1.5million from Dec 17th through Dec 20th... which means a shitload of FFXIII PS3s got sold.
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Also you were guaranteed day one to actually be in the same game as your friends. :P
Oh and there are no useless classes that you'll never ever be able to find a party with.
Nor Japanese players in your game who are running around with all the sweet loot.
Plus there ain't nothing in FF XI even approaching the Selkie female's rack. Not. Even. Close.
On the subject of female selkies, in FF:CC:TCB, I just cleared the Beach Battle...
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Also I read a Wiki that said Selkies are in fact 12 year olds who develop early, so.....:?
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On the other hand, Zelda 4 Swords was a ton of fun. An updated version with online play would rock if the Wii's online wasn't so bad.
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Then it just spirals out of control into nothing.
Sounds like you'll be spending a fair chunk of FFXIII in Cocoon, as well.
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See I don't see how FFVII doesn't "truly start" until you leave Midgar. Midgar is such a pinnacle of dystopic Blade Runner ecstasy, so different from any other city you've ever experienced in an RPG, and then... you almost never see it again. I'm in the (albeit small) group that FF7 would have been perfect had it stayed in Midgar. The other places you venture to just seem so far disconnected from Midgar and that's when the plot begins to just unravel at the seams.
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I have to agree, FF7 isn't a bad game but it could've been a great game if they kept it all in Midgar. They implied it was big enough anyways.
The end would've been less pissy too, you see the city you spent the entire game in ravaged instead of the place you just happened to start in.
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It's a shame, too, as Midgar felt like the most developed area of the game.
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But that's ok, I'm one of the few that liked FFVIII the best and FFIX only slightly less than FFVIII.
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Exactly! The destruction of Midgar would have had a huge impact on players if we never left the city. You could have incorporated Sephiroth's plot into Midgar easily -- hell, they did it with verve and grace in the ShinRa HQ. I personally don't care about the rest of VII's world. Midgar is filled with possibilities. It could have been the perfect Blade Runner jRPG.
It just decided to suddenly be a jRPG again and throw in random, useless towns that don't move the plot ever (like Kalm, Icicle Inn... I'd even argue Junon, North Corel, and Costa del Sol are nothing more than slight bumps in the road plot-wise), traditional dungeon crawling, and a mediocre ending.
However!
If the game had stayed in Midgar, explored its Sectors in-depth, nail the point home of a destructive society that is so technologically advanced that it is destroying itself... it would have been amazing. Purely amazing. Hopefully we'll see something like that in the future in a jRPG, particularly with games like Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles breaking out from the paradigm.
The 'ending' of the game was so anticlimatic, it wasn't even funny.
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Is it worse in 7 than other RPGs, or is it just that Midgar sets the bar higher than the rest of the game?
Anyway, I didn't have a problem leaving Midgar, as it was likely that the other sectors would've been more of the same, making things too redundant. I do wish it focused more on Shinra Inc, though, so we'd get more of our Midgar fill while Cloud and company hiked across the world.
Edit: So it seems like FFXIII is selling quite well in Japan, despite misgivings by some. If a numbered FF title couldn't pass mustard these days, then Japan's in worse shape than I thought.
Out of curiosity, though, what's been the top selling first-week sales for FF games? I remember when GameFan made a big ruckus over FFVII's 2 million in 2 days accomplishment, but I don't think that was the best selling game from the series. Anyone got any official stats?
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FFVII sold the most in the first week out of the franchise, and I don't think any other FF has matched it.
Most of the discussions were regarding linearity anyways. If anyone does post plot spoilers I'm going to gut them like a fish.
Well, I'll bite, how linear is it? Someone mentioned a huge straight path for most of Cocoon, but what about the Pulse portions?
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Yawn. The only thing that even comes close is the Forgotten City, and that's because it is utterly alien, just like Midgar is (in comparison to the rest of the world).
Huh. I guess I'm just easy to please then.
Man, being sick and on vacation means I miss all the interesting discussions.
What I expect from Final Fantasy games are a moving story, good music, and tactical turn-based combat.
This is why FFXII disappointed me so very much. And why FFXIII's combat system scares me.
Spoiler to hide my complaining:
1) Mash buttons while you hope your teammates are competent
2) Do all the work with a single character and ignore the rest.
Even games like FFXII and Dragon Age where you can control the other characters (but only one at a time), have the problem that it inevitably degrades into you micromanaging the healer. I played a healer in WoW, so I'm covered on that for a lifetime.
To be fair, FFXIII's combat does sound intriguing, so I'm certainly willing to give it a chance.
To anyone who's played it, how's the music? Is it great, or at least better than FFXII?
The Forgotten City's music is probably my favorite track in the game.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I agree.
I thought VII ended with humanity being wiped out from the earth, and only the trees and animals were left to enjoy their new playground.
Then Advent Children came out, and I was like, "oh".
Edit: In retrospect, maybe that's why I thought the end was so depressing.
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It could be entirely an accident, but I think the emptiness in FFVII really accentuates the overall oppressive and hopeless atmosphere of the game.
And the Paradigms are what's intriguing to me. I wouldn't call that full control though.
In theory you had full control over you party in FFXII, but only in theory (Penelo, why are you casting Fire on that Bomb?). Dragon Age was a lot better (more conditions, controlling a character overrides tactics, no need to assign attack), but still had the same problems (Argh, stop standing in the Blizzard Alistair!).
Isn't the 'real end' of FFVII, the part with Red XIII and his kids, way farther in the future after Advent Children? I mean, it states that this is the world 500 years from that point, and it implies that humanity never returned to Midgar, at least.
gjaustin - There's no automation, which is what ultimately broke FFXII wide open for me and bored me. FFXIII keeps you engaged, taking the best of FFX-2 (fast action, having to input commands) and FFXII (catch-all Gambits) and melds them together into a very solid battle engine.
Edit: According to Famitsu
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