You put points into str on an Alchemist and you don't think you have build problems. I don't know what to tell you.
PhysUp, which lets you learn the relatively cheap multitarget Bash, Slash, and Pierce spells, requires a "skill point" tax of 3 points in Strength Up. So, for 5 total skill points (StrUp x3, PhysUp x1, spell) you can get a 20TP multitarget spell. This compares, in my mind, favorably in the early game with the 11 skill points required to get an elemental multitarget spell (5x [Element]Up, 5x [Element], spell). I haven't rested and spec'ed away from it because I still find it useful to have a relatively cheap multitarget spell.
So, thanks for playing - we have some lovely parting gifts for you!
Just FYI, the only one of those three spells that is (somewhat) worth it is Pierce.
Due to the fact that your mainline damage dealers tend to be slash / bash, and therefore devaluing the spells that do the same element, or because it's a better (more damage) spell at base?
Because no enemy in the game is weak to bash, and only three are weak to slash. (Or was it the other way around? Either way, only Pierce can actually hit some weaknesses.)
Pureauthor on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
This is the first I'm hearing of the physical spells. I assumed they were all shit and never gave them any consideration.
Because no enemy in the game is weak to bash, and only three are weak to slash. (Or was it the other way around? Either way, only Pierce can actually hit some weaknesses.)
I thought Bash damage was only really useful at the
late-game story bosses, (second and third to last I think), who can't reflect it? I know pierce and slash attacks were sent right back at me most of the time
Or did I just get really lucky with the bash attacks?
Because no enemy in the game is weak to bash, and only three are weak to slash. (Or was it the other way around? Either way, only Pierce can actually hit some weaknesses.)
Bingo. That's why its not worth it. Elemental AOE is the way to play the game.
This is the first I'm hearing of the physical spells. I assumed they were all shit and never gave them any consideration.
They are all shit unless you have no source of pierce on your team, that one is ok. Those are just bad skills.
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I trust XoB's word on it. He's the authority for EO stuffs.
I also didn't know the game really had any amount of differentiating between bash, slash, and piercing damage. I thought those descriptions of the Alchemist skills were just indicating they maybe did something special.
It's always differentiated between slashing, bash and piercing damage. You can tell which type an attack does by the type of hit animation it plays on enemies.
There are actually more enemies weak to physical elements in EO1 then 2. In fact some of the boss drops involve not killing them with what they are weak to or kill them with what they are weak to. I remember bashing damage being particularly good later in the game, but piercing being good against multiple bosses.
Back to the silly Alchemist bit again. You need to make sure you have Alchemist specific gear most of the time or your TP will not be enough to cast. You also want to make sure that you make the trade off with enough TEC, Skill up, and spell up to be at the right level for what you are fighting. You want to be able to kill things with one AOE attack. Any more than two on a given fight and yes, you're probably going to run out of TP unless you have endgame equipment like I described a few months ago. Then you can basically cast all day and if you run out just use a full TP item or head back to town; you're probably overloaded with items anyways.
TP 10 is necessary. In fact my best suggestion for early game is pick an element, put your first points into unlocking the AOE, and then go straight for tp 10.
It's always differentiated between slashing, bash and piercing damage. You can tell which type an attack does by the type of hit animation it plays on enemies.
Heck, in the first game, they were even considered types of elemental damage for the purposes of a Paladin skill that blocked them.
Which was of course horribly, horribly broken.
jothki on
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
edited May 2010
I think you mean to say horribly horribly awesome.
So I'm spending way too much time nitpicking over my party. Do Alchemists actually gain the ability to cast more than three/four nukes a trip, or do I have to depend on a W/H mana battery? Is Provoke actually worth taking in this game?
And share any wacky party formations you guys have.
So I'm spending way too much time nitpicking over my party. Do Alchemists actually gain the ability to cast more than three/four nukes a trip, or do I have to depend on a W/H mana battery? Is Provoke actually worth taking in this game?
People are disagreeing with me on this one*, but no, Alchemists don't really ever get that ability - especially when compared to Medics. You'll, at best, end up with a dozen or so useful spellcasts per trip into the dungeon (and mana items cost 2k apiece for the cheap version, and its a long time before you can buy them). A W/H mana battery, on the other hand, makes everybody in your party walk around with free mana, which is fun. I've always been a fan of games where, if you do things right, you can walk out of minor battles better off than you started.
* Generally in the form of, "You just didn't build him right! You should have 10 points in TP Up!" This, of course, ignores the fact that I do have 10 points in TP Up, and rearranging my skill points would actually result in my spells being more expensive to cast or minimally more effective (e.g., +3% damage).
They also seem to be ignoring the fact that I'm not saying my Alchemist is useless or not fun; he's been a part of my core party since the 1st floor. I'm saying he could be more useful and more fun if changes were made. C.f. the wide range of abilities that other classes have access to, vice the really one-dimensional nature of the Alchemist.
You can get an Alchemist in the best equipment up to about 700 TP without destroying their other stats and preserving 99 in Tec, or about 15 casts of the highest level spells. Pretty good if you ask me. They are nuke tastic though, and an endgame party doesn't need them casting every turn anyways. Single target they can go all damn day.
The Alchemist is the only character in the game that can hit all seven elements. Sure, you really can't manage to get more than for or so done properly but that is an inarguable fact.
So looking at the skills... what the hell is the Farmer meant to be? Still Atlus take the party of 5 survivalist harvesters thing and put it into an actual class?
I can't decide if that's awsome or boring.
Edit: And the Pirate class is essentially the Chasing Landshark in a class, and can now chase Blunt and Cut attacks. Huh.
So looking at the skills... what the hell is the Farmer meant to be? Still Atlus take the party of 5 survivalist harvesters thing and put it into an actual class?
I have a question: there are secondary classes in this one? Because someone made a Skill Tree planner and it lists that.
I saw no STR/LUK/WHATEVER boost passives, and my heart skipped a beat. Those were the worst goddamned parts of Etrian Odyssey character progression. Hooray, I got a level up! Time to invest in the most boring passive skills ever devised!
HP and TP boost are, unfortunately, still around and likely required investments for damned near every character. And there's a passive ability for each class that seems to be a requisite for not sucking balls. And every harvesting skill goes up to level 10 for some reason. So "the best" characters will still have a lot of investment in passives and attribute bonuses, and few active skills. But hey, baby steps.
Looking at the Shinobi's skills, it seems like he can take 10 ranks of Concealment for +35% evasion, and then eight ranks of Cloud Cover for another +65% evasion (at the irrelevant cost of 50% hp). Seems like it would make him effectively invincible, which can't be right! Is it?
Posts
...And maybe Megido. Not sure about that one though.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
PhysUp, which lets you learn the relatively cheap multitarget Bash, Slash, and Pierce spells, requires a "skill point" tax of 3 points in Strength Up. So, for 5 total skill points (StrUp x3, PhysUp x1, spell) you can get a 20TP multitarget spell. This compares, in my mind, favorably in the early game with the 11 skill points required to get an elemental multitarget spell (5x [Element]Up, 5x [Element], spell). I haven't rested and spec'ed away from it because I still find it useful to have a relatively cheap multitarget spell.
So, thanks for playing - we have some lovely parting gifts for you!
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
Due to the fact that your mainline damage dealers tend to be slash / bash, and therefore devaluing the spells that do the same element, or because it's a better (more damage) spell at base?
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
Thanks for the heads-up.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Or did I just get really lucky with the bash attacks?
Bingo. That's why its not worth it. Elemental AOE is the way to play the game.
They are all shit unless you have no source of pierce on your team, that one is ok. Those are just bad skills.
I also didn't know the game really had any amount of differentiating between bash, slash, and piercing damage. I thought those descriptions of the Alchemist skills were just indicating they maybe did something special.
Back to the silly Alchemist bit again. You need to make sure you have Alchemist specific gear most of the time or your TP will not be enough to cast. You also want to make sure that you make the trade off with enough TEC, Skill up, and spell up to be at the right level for what you are fighting. You want to be able to kill things with one AOE attack. Any more than two on a given fight and yes, you're probably going to run out of TP unless you have endgame equipment like I described a few months ago. Then you can basically cast all day and if you run out just use a full TP item or head back to town; you're probably overloaded with items anyways.
TP 10 is necessary. In fact my best suggestion for early game is pick an element, put your first points into unlocking the AOE, and then go straight for tp 10.
Heck, in the first game, they were even considered types of elemental damage for the purposes of a Paladin skill that blocked them.
Which was of course horribly, horribly broken.
Don't forget immunization from the Medic.
Second game has broken offense for free and really broken total defense if you have even more money to burn.
I wonder how three's balance turned out.
and that's just the most broken.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
That would be broken offensive ability number two. Even works on a few bosses!
Oh right, medic, not paladin.
Oh well, at least Amazon didn't spoil it this time.
The EO2 let's play (sadly abandoned) has some good info in it, but here's the main EO2 thread.
Thanks.
So I'm spending way too much time nitpicking over my party. Do Alchemists actually gain the ability to cast more than three/four nukes a trip, or do I have to depend on a W/H mana battery? Is Provoke actually worth taking in this game?
And share any wacky party formations you guys have.
People are disagreeing with me on this one*, but no, Alchemists don't really ever get that ability - especially when compared to Medics. You'll, at best, end up with a dozen or so useful spellcasts per trip into the dungeon (and mana items cost 2k apiece for the cheap version, and its a long time before you can buy them). A W/H mana battery, on the other hand, makes everybody in your party walk around with free mana, which is fun. I've always been a fan of games where, if you do things right, you can walk out of minor battles better off than you started.
* Generally in the form of, "You just didn't build him right! You should have 10 points in TP Up!" This, of course, ignores the fact that I do have 10 points in TP Up, and rearranging my skill points would actually result in my spells being more expensive to cast or minimally more effective (e.g., +3% damage).
They also seem to be ignoring the fact that I'm not saying my Alchemist is useless or not fun; he's been a part of my core party since the 1st floor. I'm saying he could be more useful and more fun if changes were made. C.f. the wide range of abilities that other classes have access to, vice the really one-dimensional nature of the Alchemist.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
The Alchemist is the only character in the game that can hit all seven elements. Sure, you really can't manage to get more than for or so done properly but that is an inarguable fact.
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12218-Video-Game-Examiner~y2010m6d10-Atlus-E3-Lineup-Trine-2-included
I have a question: there are secondary classes in this one? Because someone made a Skill Tree planner and it lists that.
Edit: Also Trine 2.
I can't decide if that's awsome or boring.
Edit: And the Pirate class is essentially the Chasing Landshark in a class, and can now chase Blunt and Cut attacks. Huh.
No more Warp Wires!
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
HP and TP boost are, unfortunately, still around and likely required investments for damned near every character. And there's a passive ability for each class that seems to be a requisite for not sucking balls. And every harvesting skill goes up to level 10 for some reason. So "the best" characters will still have a lot of investment in passives and attribute bonuses, and few active skills. But hey, baby steps.
Looking at the Shinobi's skills, it seems like he can take 10 ranks of Concealment for +35% evasion, and then eight ranks of Cloud Cover for another +65% evasion (at the irrelevant cost of 50% hp). Seems like it would make him effectively invincible, which can't be right! Is it?