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Prove You're Not Anti-Semitic in the [Defamation] Thread

HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
edited December 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
Defamation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5jsiLWXGYQ

I caught this movie in a small theater last weekend and haven't been so simultaneously fascinated/moved by a documentary in a long time. Israeli filmmaker Yoav Shamir explores the conceptual relevance of anti-Semitism today; both in terms of how it manifests itself and more importantly what Jews around the world think about it. He interviews a wide WIDE spectrum of people, ranging from staunch members of the Israeli right wing to liberal western college professors to locals in Brooklyn. He openly challenges everyone he talks to in a respectful but legitimate manner, essentially refusing to be afraid to ask questions that every viewer may be thinking, but wouldn't dare say.

I think there were a few sections that were unfair, and wonder what may have been different if the film had been made after an incident like the shooting at the DC holocaust museum. I also grew up protestant and can't say that I have first hand familiarity with a lot of aspects of Jewish culture that are central to the film. Overall, though, the central thesis (what's past is past) which culminates at the end is one I think I'm mostly behind.

Anyone else catch it? If not, I highly recommend it. The final 20 minutes are emotionally wrenching, but in a very strange and complicated way for a film. It's almost like getting in a heated political argument with a family member where you both end in tears but don't lose any love for one and other. Potent stuff.

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  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I have not seen the film.

    Here is my view on anti-Semitism.

    • I do not believe "Judaism" refers, or should refer, to a race. Judaism is a religion. Like most religions, it was once rooted in a tribal ethnicity, so it lines up along racial lines because we pass down religions to our genetic descendents. But I think it is incredibly stupid to conflate an ideological system with a race or even an ethnicity.

    • I understand that Jews believe that Judaism is "passed down" matrillinearly. Apparently this works through some sort of mysterious Jew-mitochondria, who the fuck knows. I absolutely refuse to accept this religious idea as a definition applicable to objective reality. For the same reason, I refuse to accept that all human beings are born Muslims (and thus anyone who converts to Islam is actually a "revert")—despite the fact that this is what Muslims believe.

    • Thus, my opposition to anti-Semitism is two-fold. (1) Conflating a religion with a race is stupid and wrong. (2) Judging people based on racial characteristics, which are meaningless, is stupid and wrong.

    • HOWEVER. Since Judaism is a culture/ideology and not a race, that means it is not immune to criticism. When I criticize Judaism and its associated Zionist ideology, that does not make me a racist anti-Semite—anymore than criticizing the content of Islamic ideology makes me a "racist." That is absurd, and it is frustrating and immoral when Jews wield the victim mentality of anti-Semitism to shut down legitimate criticism of their religion and political views.

    • I think anti-Semitism is a problem in the middle east but a lot of Jews have a knee jerk reaction to the mess of conspiracy theories and Holocaust denial. I think less of that is racially-based (a la Hitler and historical anti-Semitism) and much more ideological. I don't think it makes sense to call Mahmoud Ahmadinejad an "anti-Semite" because his Holocaust denial and statements against Israel have nothing to do with the idea that the Jews are a race, and everything to do with political ideology and mythology.

    • I don't think anti-Semitism is a remotely significant problem in America, despite the perisistence of a rabid fringe of white supremacists. We've long since won that war and while we need to remain vigilant, I think the way many Jews (for example, many of my extended family members) view themselves as under constant threat and living in "hostile territory" is pathetic and counterproductive.

    Qingu on
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I haven't seen the movie, so I can't comment on that. (I saw the trailer but it's a mix of snippets and I have no idea what his message is)

    First of all, Anti-semitism is real, and a threat. It's actively wielded in the middle-east to foster an us vs them mentality, in part to make sure the people do not really look at who is leading them, and because people go really easy for that sentiment (anti-muslim behaviour in the EU, anti-latino behaviour in the US seems to share quite a few characteristics). Anti-semitism is also rearing in muslim populations in Europe, at least partially through the importation of imams.

    Second, the jewish people have suffered uniquely and unfairly, throughout centuries and culminating in WW 2 and it should forever be a warning to all humans that people can become monsters if we are not vigilant.

    However, I have a real gripe with people who conflate anti-semitism with the actions of the state of Israel. It creates a situation where no matter what Israel does, people will always defend it as being the only correct course of action. And that situation is almost as dangerous. Israel started a war where it cluster bombed people because of 2 kidnapped soldiers, and the USA supported it. Israel actively supports settlers stealing palastinean land for "security." The palastinian government is of course also to blame, since they are corrupt to the core and have definitive terrorism ties. But Israel holds all the cards, they dominate the process. And they decided to create a people with 90% unemployment, who cannot even export what little goods the make because it gets "checked" indefinitely, they make building an economy impossible by randomly holding back basic commodities such as fuel, and they level whole city blocks as retalliation for attacks.

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  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    But...But I'm German.

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  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?

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  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    SanderJK wrote: »
    First of all, Anti-semitism is real, and a threat. It's actively wielded in the middle-east to foster an us vs them mentality

    I don't like use of the term anti-semitism as applied to mean strictly anti-jewish. I feel it's inaccurate as Arabs are also semitic people.
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?

    I think in the U.S. the only races we recognize are White, Black, Asian, and Native American.

    oldsak on
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    SanderJK wrote: »
    First of all, Anti-semitism is real, and a threat. It's actively wielded in the middle-east to foster an us vs them mentality

    I don't like use of the term anti-semitism as applied to mean strictly anti-jewish. I feel it's inaccurate as Arabs are also semitic people.
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?

    I think in the U.S. the only races we recognize are White, Black, Asian, and Native American.

    We also recognize messicans and arabs in murica (though the first group is listed as "Taco" and the second "Sand N*****")

    Jokes aside, whether you believe in judaism as a race or not, the persecution of jews is not something you can really ignore. I mean that's like saying "I don't believe that black people are different from white people so slavery in the US isn't real."

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  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    SanderJK wrote: »
    First of all, Anti-semitism is real, and a threat. It's actively wielded in the middle-east to foster an us vs them mentality

    I don't like use of the term anti-semitism as applied to mean strictly anti-jewish. I feel it's inaccurate as Arabs are also semitic people.
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?

    I think in the U.S. the only races we recognize are White, Black, Asian, and Native American.

    Are there also American mitochondria? You can be a citizen by birth.

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  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Out of interest (and I don't wish to derail the topic): is there any definition of race with respect to human beings that isn't some half-baked concoction, because all of them seem to be based on clear delineations and gross simplifications that don't hold up and haven't in a long, long time, mainly because these delineations are purely cultural constructs?

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Well at their basic levels, black people and white people are easily identified as belonging to one group over another. Also known as snow test.

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  • iTunesIsEviliTunesIsEvil Cornfield? Cornfield.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    I thought Jews were people who practiced the Jewish faith, or Judaism. I've never, personally, thought of "Jewish" as a race. I'm up for being enlightened though!

    iTunesIsEvil on
  • ScalfinScalfin __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2009
    Thirith wrote: »
    Out of interest (and I don't wish to derail the topic): is there any definition of race with respect to human beings that isn't some half-baked concoction, because all of them seem to be based on clear delineations and gross simplifications that don't hold up and haven't in a long, long time, mainly because these delineations are purely cultural constructs?

    Cladistics is incredibly spotty. For example, were precolumbian Native Americans a separate species?

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  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    I thought Jews were people who practiced the Jewish faith, or Judaism. I've never, personally, thought of "Jewish" as a race. I'm up for being enlightened though!

    I guess it is complicated, you can be Jewish as a religion and you can be Jewish as a "race". I never got the sense that the Nazis were out to end the Jewish religion because it was some heretical concept. They didn't put a sword to their throats and offer conversion or death like the Moors did in Spain a few hundred years ago. I'm not Jewish or a scholar of Judaism so I'm already out of my depth, but the sense I get from my Jewish friends is that they have a connection with other Jews that transcends religious ideology. Having said that, I don't personally think of the Jews as a race because I have a lot of problems with the whole notion of race.

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  • PhantPhant Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    SanderJK wrote: »
    Second, the jewish people have suffered uniquely and unfairly, throughout centuries and culminating in WW 2 and it should forever be a warning to all humans that people can become monsters if we are not vigilant.

    Not to diminish the persecution Jews have faced in Europe or other parts of the world, but their plight is hardly unique. The Roma are still persecuted in eastern Europe, the Kurds are still getting fucked over by every nation they reside in for the most part(Though they have been less shy about getting all militant about it, leading to a situation where historical persecution leads to protracted insurgency in which noone ends up being very sympathetic). There are other ethnic, racial and religious groups around the world that escape me at the moment.

    Phant on
  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    I thought Jews were people who practiced the Jewish faith, or Judaism. I've never, personally, thought of "Jewish" as a race. I'm up for being enlightened though!

    I guess it is complicated, you can be Jewish as a religion and you can be Jewish as a "race". I never got the sense that the Nazis were out to end the Jewish religion because it was some heretical concept. They didn't put a sword to their throats and offer conversion or death like the Moors did in Spain a few hundred years ago. I'm not Jewish or a scholar of Judaism so I'm already out of my depth, but the sense I get from my Jewish friends is that they have a connection with other Jews that transcends religious ideology. Having said that, I don't personally think of the Jews as a race because I have a lot of problems with the whole notion of race.

    The term your looking for is "ethnicity."

    oldsak on
  • DmanDman Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    In Canada there are boxes on applications you can check for visible minority. If your skin isn't pearly white you may check this box. Most Jewish people I know are not considered visible minorities.

    from wiki:
    The Canadian government defines visible minorities as “non-white” or “non-Caucasian” and further states that it comprises the following groups: “Black, South Asian, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Southeast Asian, Filipino, Arab/West Asian, Latin American”.

    Then it goes on to rant that the term visible minority is itself racist, which while perhaps technically true is ironic given the purpose of the creation of this label.

    Dman on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    You can be a non-practicing Jew. Jews are denied entry into Midwest country clubs. The Jews are a race.

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Wouldn't the race which happens to be predominantly Jewish be "Hebrews" or something like that?

    Incenjucar on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    You can say that the Ashkenazi or the Sephardim constitute races—to the extent that there are such things as individual races (which is already a dubious concept). I don't doubt that the early Hebrews were a racially segregated tribe.

    What I am objecting to is the grafting of ideology (the Jewish religion) onto physical characteristics (the so-called "Jewish race"). It is actually amazing to me that Jews cling to this bizarre conception of their identity because it's exactly what Hitler thought about the interaction between the Jewish religion and the Jewish race.

    Qingu on
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    One of the great things about the film is that Shamir seems to recognize that "Jewish" is a broad term that has all sorts of ambiguities when it comes to race/religion/definition. As such, he talks to American Jews, Israeli Jews, Russian Jews, etc. to find out what contemporary anti-Semitism is among this increasingly broad spectrum. The results are pretty astounding, particularly when he talks to an Orthodox Rabbi who feels that anti-Semitism and the fighting thereof is a significantly bigger (read: inflated) deal for Jews who are secular because it may be part of the way they feel Jewish. That's just one of many examples.

    Also, everything I'm reading in this thread suggests that you all would really like the film, it explores directly or indirectly a lot of what you're mentioning.

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  • PhistiPhisti Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Semites actually.

    Jews, Palestinians, Syrians, Jordanians, some Iraqis...

    Why the whole anti-semite thing bothers me, is we have perverted semite to refer specifically to Jews and not the entire semetic people.

    Phisti on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    emnmnme wrote: »
    You can be a non-practicing Jew. Jews are denied entry into Midwest country clubs. The Jews are a race.
    Huh? On what basis are said Jews denied entry into country clubs? I doubt it's because of their physical characteristics, as opposed to their last names sounding Jewish or other cultural (i.e. non-racial) behavior.

    Unless you are defining the word "race" as "that which gets you barred entry from country clubs."

    Qingu on
  • ThirithThirith Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Scalfin wrote: »
    Thirith wrote: »
    Out of interest (and I don't wish to derail the topic): is there any definition of race with respect to human beings that isn't some half-baked concoction, because all of them seem to be based on clear delineations and gross simplifications that don't hold up and haven't in a long, long time, mainly because these delineations are purely cultural constructs?
    Cladistics is incredibly spotty. For example, were precolumbian Native Americans a separate species?
    It was my impression that beyond very basic taxonomy there's little factual meaning to notions of race. Which doesn't mean that the taxonomic dimensions (this guy has darker skin than the people I consider to be white like me, hence he's black, and never mind that he's actually much lighter than 90% of the people described as "black" etc.) don't have real, factual effects, mind you.

    Thirith on
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  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    You can say that the Ashkenazi or the Sephardim constitute races—to the extent that there are such things as individual races (which is already a dubious concept). I don't doubt that the early Hebrews were a racially segregated tribe.

    What I am objecting to is the grafting of ideology (the Jewish religion) onto physical characteristics (the so-called "Jewish race"). It is actually amazing to me that Jews cling to this bizarre conception of their identity because it's exactly what Hitler thought about the interaction between the Jewish religion and the Jewish race.

    I get that, but taking what oldsak said about ethnicity, one can still see the issue of anti-semitism being a problem, especially for someone who is culturally Jewish. You can't just say anti-semitism isn't a problem because the Jews shouldn't exist in your racial taxonomy.

    themightypuck on
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  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2009
    Yeah it really doesn't matter whether it's a sensical demarcation along racial lines. The point is that people out there hate Jews along those lines.

    Organichu on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I get that, but taking what oldsak said about ethnicity, one can still see the issue of anti-semitism being a problem, especially for someone who is culturally Jewish. You can't just say anti-semitism isn't a problem because the Jews shouldn't exist in your racial taxonomy.
    But I wouldn't call being a dick about someone's culture "racism" or even "anti-Semitism."

    I feel the same way about racism against blacks. If someone hates gangsta rap and the way stereotypical inner city black kids talk, that is not grounds enough for me to call them a racist because their objections involve only cultural attributes. Someone who hates the religion of Judaism, matzo ball soup, silly-looking beards and top hats and whatnot ... they're not a racist or even an anti-Semite because what they're objecting to is the culture.

    I think it's very important to separate the concepts of race and culture in our discourse. (PArtly because the one, race, is a dubious concept to begin with!)

    Qingu on
  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    I thought Jews were people who practiced the Jewish faith, or Judaism. I've never, personally, thought of "Jewish" as a race. I'm up for being enlightened though!

    I've always used:

    Jew = religion. A Jew is a practicioner of Judaism.
    Hebrew = ethnicity. A Hebrew is a member of an ethnic group claiming to have descended from Eber, Abraham, Jacob, etc.
    Israeli = nationality. Citizens and permanent residents of the nation-state of Israel.

    Standard 3-circle Venn diagram.

    BubbaT on
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    I get that, but taking what oldsak said about ethnicity, one can still see the issue of anti-semitism being a problem, especially for someone who is culturally Jewish. You can't just say anti-semitism isn't a problem because the Jews shouldn't exist in your racial taxonomy.
    But I wouldn't call being a dick about someone's culture "racism" or even "anti-Semitism."

    I feel the same way about racism against blacks. If someone hates gangsta rap and the way stereotypical inner city black kids talk, that is not grounds enough for me to call them a racist because their objections involve only cultural attributes. Someone who hates the religion of Judaism, matzo ball soup, silly-looking beards and top hats and whatnot ... they're not a racist or even an anti-Semite because what they're objecting to is the culture.

    I think it's very important to separate the concepts of race and culture in our discourse. (PArtly because the one, race, is a dubious concept to begin with!)

    The problem isn't people thinking that kippot look silly- it's people thinking that 'Jews' are inclined for whatever reason (mystical unification, 'falsely attributed' racial unification, whatever you want to call it) to be X, Y, and Z bad things- cheats, greedy, power hungry, etc.

    It's certainly not as innocuous as "because they grew up in the inner city" like the not-quite-racial assholishness of the people to whom you're referring.

    Organichu on
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    I get that, but taking what oldsak said about ethnicity, one can still see the issue of anti-semitism being a problem, especially for someone who is culturally Jewish. You can't just say anti-semitism isn't a problem because the Jews shouldn't exist in your racial taxonomy.
    But I wouldn't call being a dick about someone's culture "racism" or even "anti-Semitism."

    I feel the same way about racism against blacks. If someone hates gangsta rap and the way stereotypical inner city black kids talk, that is not grounds enough for me to call them a racist because their objections involve only cultural attributes. Someone who hates the religion of Judaism, matzo ball soup, silly-looking beards and top hats and whatnot ... they're not a racist or even an anti-Semite because what they're objecting to is the culture.

    I think it's very important to separate the concepts of race and culture in our discourse. (PArtly because the one, race, is a dubious concept to begin with!)

    I hate the religion of Judaism the same way I hate all religions. I think it is silly and stupid but I accept that religion is inevitable and as far as religions go I'll take modern Judaism over pretty much all the other ones.

    themightypuck on
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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    BubbaT wrote: »
    Qingu. What is a race if Jews are not a race. I get that race is a pretty silly concept in a lot of respects but once you accept the concept of race don't you have to accept that the Jews are very racey?
    I thought Jews were people who practiced the Jewish faith, or Judaism. I've never, personally, thought of "Jewish" as a race. I'm up for being enlightened though!

    I've always used:

    Jew = religion. A Jew is a practicioner of Judaism.
    Hebrew = ethnicity. A Hebrew is a member of an ethnic group claiming to have descended from Eber, Abraham, Jacob, etc.
    Israeli = nationality. Citizens and permanent residents of the nation-state of Israel.

    Standard 3-circle Venn diagram.


    This is how I function.

    I would never accuse an atheist or a wiccan of being Jewish.

    Incenjucar on
  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Hebrew is a language. I've heard Jewish people take exception to being referred to as such.

    @ Qingu, I get what you're saying "racism vs. ethnocentrism." Either way though, value judgments of a person based on race or ethnicity are both morally wrong.

    oldsak on
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Bringing this back to the movie a bit, I was trying to leave things a little vague for those who haven't seen it, but if you're interested in the central message and don't mind some aspects of the film being revealed, read on:
    The central argument is that a good portion of the Israeli and Western Jewish World is entrapped in an archaic mindset regarding anti-Semitism and fails to understand the actual intricacies of the subject in the modern world. One of the major arcs of the film is him following a group of Israeli students taking a trip to Poland to see the camps. Their security escort has them all but convinced that every Pole that looks at them is thinking about how they're smelly Jews who they'd love to kick right out of their country. Likewise, there appears to be a popular perception in Israel that many places that aren't Israel (Western places, mind you) are also inherently anti-Semitic.

    Shamir seems convinced by the end of his journey that "crusading against anti-Semitism" is less about being on guard for legitimately unjustified attacks on Judaism and more about feeding paranoia or entrenchment in "us vs them" political ideologies.

    There is a somewhat terrifying interview near the end of the film with a weeping Israeli girl who's just left a preserved concentration camp on her school trip. He asks her how's she's feeling and her response is (the following is approximated) "I want to kill them", he says "Who?", she says "The Nazis", he says "You know they're all dead now", she says "Yes, but they have heirs".

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  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    Hebrew is a language. I've heard Jewish people take exception to being referred to as such.

    I'm guessing the same people would take exception to suggesting that the children of their women can be not-Jews.

    Incenjucar on
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    @qingu

    That the Jews have a special word for ethnocentrism against them is no great thing. I'd trade pogroms and a genocide for a special word any day.

    themightypuck on
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  • BubbaTBubbaT Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    Hebrew is a language. I've heard Jewish people take exception to being referred to as such.

    It can be both. Spanish is both a language and a nationality.

    BubbaT on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    Hebrew is a language. I've heard Jewish people take exception to being referred to as such.

    @ Qingu, I get what you're saying "racism vs. ethnocentrism." Either way though, value judgments of a person based on race or ethnicity are both morally wrong.
    I think it's less wrong to value-judge a person based on ethnicity (which is essentially cultural, and thus open to criticism) than based on race (which is a meaningless, dubious categorization of physical appearance).

    I mean, I don't think people should judge people solely or prematurely based on their ethnicity. But ethnicities at least can contain ideas and behaviors that affect, you know, happiness and suffering and fairness and other moral quantities.

    And shit, I judge the hell out of the Hasidic culture, because it's backwards, ignorant, and negligent wrt educating children to the point of child abuse.

    Qingu on
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Does anyone here know what definition the Jews place on themselves for the right to become an Israeli citizen?

    themightypuck on
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  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Qingu wrote: »
    Unless you are defining the word "race" as "that which gets you barred entry from country clubs."

    And why not? You can write on paper what you think defines race and race relations but that still isn't getting upper-middle-class-Jewish-guy membership into a country club because he can't pass for a WASP. It's not physical appearance or traditions or religious beliefs - it's a one-drop rule in action.

    emnmnme on
  • oldsakoldsak Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    This thread could probably use some actual Jews.

    oldsak on
  • IncenjucarIncenjucar VChatter Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    oldsak wrote: »
    This thread could probably use some actual Jews.

    I think it already has a Hebrew person.

    Incenjucar on
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited December 2009
    I know everything about Judaism, 'Hebrew' ethnic history, and Israeli citizenship requirements!

    So uh

    I guess I can answer some questions

    brb fappin

    Organichu on
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