the video games + violence issue

LionEyez

I'm writing an essay for school discussing the issue violence in videogames.

I'm wondering if anyone can point me to any credible(!) sources argueing the different sides of this issue?

Jack Thompson's name seems to pop up a lot in relation to videogame violence, and I've already gotten some nice eye catching quotes to use ('mental masturbation'). There are also plenty of studies to be found, though they seem to very conflicting on wether or not children are influenced by violent games, and the extend of this influence.

Basically, I'm looking for the views of leading authorities on either side of the fence, to help me write this essay. Can be an article, documentary, youtube video, book or whatever.


Thanks!

(Also thanks to the people pointing me to the correct sub-forum!)

EDIT: I believe I have enough to go on at this point. Feel free to discuss the issue!

cooljammer00

Wasn't there a big thing about how youth violence actually dropped when GTA 3 came out?

shadydentist

http://arstechnica.com/search/#violence+in+video+games

-there are links to some actual studies.

Khavall

cooljammer00 wrote: »

Wasn't there a big thing about how youth violence actually dropped when GTA 3 came out?

It's a steady decline, to be more accurate. Of course, this is also simply because of escalating prevention methods. While it's a mistake to say that there's really any causation between video games and declining youth violence and declining violent crime, it's certainly not as silly to assume that there's a causation for video games causing increased violence.

There's also something that old Jack-y kept bringing up, which was an AMA study on violence in media that said that violent media of any form causes delinquent behavior, though it wasn't about video games, and I have yet to see any other research that makes such a claim, so I don't know how much I'd trust the claimed causitive link.

The bottom line is that there has been no study that has conclusively proven a causation between gaming and violence, the correlative links are not too strong, an certainly there has been nothing showing any sort of long term link. It's probably not a good idea to have GTA babysit your 6-year-old, but the research is still not really supporting that games cause violence.

Klorgnum

Khavall wrote: »

certainly there has been nothing showing any sort of long term link. It's probably not a good idea to have GTA babysit your 6-year-old, but the research is still not really supporting that games cause violence.

Lots of studies have shown short term increases in aggressive (which is defined differently depending on the study) behaviour after gaming, and long term studies (which are subject to their own criticisms) have shown increased criminal and violent behaviour in adults who consumed violent (defined differently depending on the study) media (films, tv) as children.

There are a great many criticisms that can be made of the research on this topic, but the evidence does seem to point towards games and violence having some relation.

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

Mugaaz

I think people on both sides are too stubborn to admiy that violent video games are a problem, but only when played by people with severe mental problems. They have virtually no effect on 99.999% of people. People who are severely messed up on the other hand are ALWAYS a liability and virtually ANYTHING can be the catalyst that causes them to explode.

Delzhand

Here's a pretty lengthy paper on the topic.

http://www.psychology.iastate.edu/faculty/caa/abstracts/2005-2009/05GA2.pdf

Here's a corresponding news article
http://www.news.iastate.edu/news/2007/nov/vvgteachers.shtml

In the longitudinal elementary school sample, students, their peers, and their teachers completed surveys at two points during the school year. The surveys assessed the subject's aggressive thoughts and self-reported fights, and their media habits -- including violent video game exposure. Teachers and peers were also asked to rate the participants' aggressive behavior.

Controlling for age, race, sex, total amount of time spent playing all video games, and prior aggressive behaviors, the research found that the amount of rated violence in the games played predicted increased aggression. Among elementary students, playing multiple violent video games increased their risk of being highly aggressive -- as rated by peers and teachers -- by 73 percent, when compared to those who played a mix of violent and non-violent games, and by 263 percent compared to those who played only non-violent games.

"Because we had longitudinal data, we were able to show that students who play multiple violent games actually changed to have a greater hostile attribution bias, which also increased their aggressive behaviors over prior levels," the researchers wrote.

Mugaaz

Klorgnum wrote: »

Khavall wrote: »

certainly there has been nothing showing any sort of long term link. It's probably not a good idea to have GTA babysit your 6-year-old, but the research is still not really supporting that games cause violence.

Lots of studies have shown short term increases in aggressive (which is defined differently depending on the study) behaviour after gaming, and long term studies (which are subject to their own criticisms) have shown increased criminal and violent behaviour in adults who consumed violent (defined differently depending on the study) media (films, tv) as children.

There are a great many criticisms that can be made of the research on this topic, but the evidence does seem to point towards games and violence having some relation.

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

Isn't this like saying there is a study showing that people who eat a lot of cookies were shown to bake more cookies then people who don't like them?

Delzhand

I think you'll always have quite a bit that's questionable about survey-based studies, because psychology and sociology are soft sciences. There is also the issue that "violent" and "nonviolent" aren't very good descriptors. Sure, Gears of War is violent. Tetris isn't. But what about Mario? Is stomping on enemies "violent"? What about Megaman Zero, where you can cut robots apart with a sword?

I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that the aggression increase seen in studies is more a factor of gender norms for males (the predominant demographic for games in general) and what aggression symbolizes, and is probably similar to levels of aggression and excitement when watching or participating in sports.

Also, let's not forget that aggression is not necessarily dangerous or even undesirable.

Klorgnum

Mugaaz wrote: »

Klorgnum wrote: »

Khavall wrote: »

certainly there has been nothing showing any sort of long term link. It's probably not a good idea to have GTA babysit your 6-year-old, but the research is still not really supporting that games cause violence.

Lots of studies have shown short term increases in aggressive (which is defined differently depending on the study) behaviour after gaming, and long term studies (which are subject to their own criticisms) have shown increased criminal and violent behaviour in adults who consumed violent (defined differently depending on the study) media (films, tv) as children.

There are a great many criticisms that can be made of the research on this topic, but the evidence does seem to point towards games and violence having some relation.

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

Isn't this like saying there is a study showing that people who eat a lot of cookies were shown to bake more cookies then people who don't like them?

How so? Preference for violent media is often controlled for. The researchers do tend to think of these things.

Delzhand wrote: »

I'm not a psychologist, but it seems to me that the aggression increase seen in studies is more a factor of gender norms for males (the predominant demographic for games in general) and what aggression symbolizes, and is probably similar to levels of aggression and excitement when watching or participating in sports.

I'm unaware of any studies comparing violent media to sports, but I've thought before that it would be an interesting topic. As far as gender norms for aggression, these things are usually controlled for. I can't imagine a study on this topic being taken seriously if it didn't control for gender differences at the least.

Also, let's not forget that aggression is not necessarily dangerous or even undesirable.

This is where defining aggression is useful. According to my social psychology professor (if I remember correctly), the most popular interpretation of aggression for social psychological research is behaviour intended to cause harm to others. Being aggressive in the sense of being an aggressive salesman doesn't count.


We seem to be moving away from what the OP wanted though. Dr. Craig Anderson's website should be a goldmine for your essay. He's one of the big names in media violence research. He's also very much on the side of it being a causative factor. Gamepolitics.com occasionally covers studies, and the VGResearcher blog covers lots of studies on this topic.
You didn't specify if you were in high school or university, but your school library might be able to give you access to a database like PsycInfo, which will definitely help you find papers on the topic.

Jebus314

Just thought I'd throw in something for the no causation side. Linky, and the article "The effect of playing violent video games on adolescents: Should parents be quaking in their boots?" in the journal Psychology, Crime & Law if you can get it.

Also as a side note, isn't it awesome how when you see someone arguing that a consensus has been reached they site almost exclusively their own papers? Sometimes I hate academia.

Mugaaz

"How so? Preference for violent media is often controlled for. The researchers do tend to think of these things."

Really? I don't know about that. The studies on issues that are controversial are rarely done & funded by impartial observers. Also, I find that even studies that meet that criteria are often skewed after the fact by being overly supportive of the side their findings only slightly support in order to attract more attention. Finally I find that people, even smart ones, tend to always make mistakes when it comes to denying the antecedent / affirming the consequent.

Sharp10r

LionEyez wrote: »

I'm writing an essay for school discussing the issue violence in videogames.

I'm wondering if anyone can point me to any credible(!) sources argueing the different sides of this issue?

Jack Thompson's name seems to pop up a lot in relation to videogame violence, and I've already gotten some nice eye catching quotes to use ('mental masturbation'). There are also plenty of studies to be found, though they seem to very conflicting on wether or not children are influenced by violent games, and the extend of this influence.

Basically, I'm looking for the views of leading authorities on either side of the fence, to help me write this essay. Can be an article, documentary, youtube video, book or whatever.


Thanks!

(Also thanks to the people pointing me to the correct sub-forum!)

For a more reasoned approach than Thompson, but also from a Christian Worldview (though his counsel is more common sense than theological so it has more widespread application) Richard Abanes What Every Parent Needs to Know About Video Games: A Gamer Explores the Good, Bad, and Ugly of the Virtual World. Key quote from chapter To Play or Not to Play: "It is not necessarily the themes or scenes that determine whether or not a video game is good or bad, but rather, how such themes or scenes are depicted and what overall message is being delivered through them. What is the context of the game's mature content?"

Also, Grand Theft Childhood had some great material in it- but I bought an e-book and my HD died, so I have to re-download and can't get you any other information on it.

Khavall

Klorgnum wrote: »

Mugaaz wrote: »

Klorgnum wrote: »

Khavall wrote: »

certainly there has been nothing showing any sort of long term link. It's probably not a good idea to have GTA babysit your 6-year-old, but the research is still not really supporting that games cause violence.

Lots of studies have shown short term increases in aggressive (which is defined differently depending on the study) behaviour after gaming, and long term studies (which are subject to their own criticisms) have shown increased criminal and violent behaviour in adults who consumed violent (defined differently depending on the study) media (films, tv) as children.

There are a great many criticisms that can be made of the research on this topic, but the evidence does seem to point towards games and violence having some relation.

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

Isn't this like saying there is a study showing that people who eat a lot of cookies were shown to bake more cookies then people who don't like them?

How so? Preference for violent media is often controlled for. The researchers do tend to think of these things.

There are some studies that are specifically based on preference.

Remember the one study that showed that gamers were more likely to do drugs and drink? The actual study had a laughably small group of somewhere around 20 males in college, and through a survey format found a strong correlative link between playing games, doing drugs, and drinking in excess. So in other words, the typical college male will play video games. And the study was done all fine and proper, and the researchers did their jobs right, and then it was reported horribly.

There's plenty of research done all prim and proper that demonstrates a link between aggressive behavior and exposure to aggressive media. I'm not at all surprised that there is a short term increase in aggressive behavior after consuming violent media, but the words short term there are kind of important.

As is noticing in the second example that no fucking duh. Violent people consume violent media and do violent things? Seriously, you get from that that violent media causes violence? I'd say you need to pay more attention in your classes, but then I wouldn't get to save it to say it here:

Klorgnum wrote: »

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

You should probably pay more attention in class if you think this is a source. This is a direct appeal from authority. Saying "I know about this" isn't an argument or a source. If you have the studies available because they're right in front of you, why not just give an actual source?

I'm absolutely sure that there are plenty of studies out there, done perfectly well, with perfectly reasonable conclusions. And I'm sure that none of those conclusions are that violent media causes violent crime or has a long-term causative effect, or even, when other things are controlled for, a correlative effect on the level of smoking and cancer, for instance. And I'm sure that it's really, really easy to read the studies, not understand them, and put them up on the news complete with analysis that playing doom causes kids to shoot up their schools.

E.Coyote

Khavall wrote: »

playing doom causes kids to shoot up their schools.

This shows why context is important. It's a hot button issue and there's going to be quite a bit of bias either way. The following link is a satire of the whole thing.

http://www.mavav.org/

SanderJK

When examing studies, look closely at how shortly after playing the game the measurement of violence is. Often it's very close, basicly only showing people got hyped up by the game). I'm not saying it's really there, and I seem to recall a longer term study underway, but I cannot recall.

www.gamepolitics.com basicly tracks all appearances of this issue in the media. (biased source of course, but a good starting point to branch out. They do link a lot.)

Klorgnum

Khavall wrote: »

As is noticing in the second example that no fucking duh. Violent people consume violent media and do violent things? Seriously, you get from that that violent media causes violence?

What? How are you getting this from what I wrote?
Violent people may or may not have a preference for violent media. It's really easy to see how this could bias the results of a study. Which is why it's often controlled for. I know I wouldn't take a study too seriously that didn't take this into account, and so do the researchers.

I'd say you need to pay more attention in your classes, but then I wouldn't get to save it to say it here:

Klorgnum wrote: »

Source: I'm a psychology major. Some of this was covered in a recent class and my textbook, some of it is personal opinion from my own interest in the topic.

You should probably pay more attention in class if you think this is a source. This is a direct appeal from authority. Saying "I know about this" isn't an argument or a source. If you have the studies available because they're right in front of you, why not just give an actual source?

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that an internet forum should be held to the standards of a scholarly paper. My intent was to inform the reader that maybe, just maybe, I might know something about this topic that other people don't. I don't have a stack of papers sitting in front of me right now. I've been reading them for years. I've read Anderson, I've read Craig, I've read names I can't remember. I've read books on the topic. I've read Grand Theft Childhood and I've read Media Violence and It's Effect on Aggression and I've read Killing Monsters. This is a topic that I have some idea about.

And I'm sure that it's really, really easy to read the studies, not understand them, and put them up on the news complete with analysis that playing doom causes kids to shoot up their schools. And I'm sure that none of those conclusions are that violent media causes violent crime or has a long-term causative effect.

At least we agree on this.

If you take further issue with this, you might want to start a D&D thread for it. We're really shitting up the OPs thread with this crap.

LionEyez

Whoa, let's not get violent in here, shall we?

Thanks for all the replies and links though. The paper only has to be about 10 pages long, so I believe I've got enough to go on now, with what I already gathered myself.

Please feel free to discuss this issue in general if you want

Bartholamue

There's also a Penn & Teller episode that they made specifically about this. It's in season 7, and it's the third episode in the season.

northstar

http://videogames.procon.org/ has lots of arguments on both sides of the issues, plus tons of pdfs of studies and a nice history of the issue.

oaklore

I just wrote a paper on this.

Go to the American Psychgological Association where there is peer reviewed scientific research. It is THE most credible source on the subject. Theres a search box near the top. Video game violence.