Options

The New Comic Thread for Friday, December 11, 2009

12357

Posts

  • Options
    ArtreusArtreus I'm a wizard And that looks fucked upRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Yeah I find it pretty impossible to ever actually mark in a book or disfigure the pages in any way. I only ever write in the margins of what I am reading if I am reading a print-out.

    Artreus on
    http://atlanticus.tumblr.com/ PSN: Atlanticus 3DS: 1590-4692-3954 Steam: Artreus
  • Options
    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2009
    L|ama wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    reading on a screen is pretty undeniably different from reading an actual book. tons of people like to write in margins and dog ear pages and highlight text and be able to easily flip back and forth between pages. i really don't think the kindle or whatever is ever going to adequately replace the experience of the physical book.

    this makes the librarian inside me angry, and it's not comfortable having a person inside you shaking their fist!

    one time i checked in a book while working in the library

    some crazy dude had annotated the entire fucking thing in red pen

    FyreWulff on
  • Options
    VALVEjunkieVALVEjunkie Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    reading on a screen is pretty undeniably different from reading an actual book. tons of people like to write in margins and dog ear pages and highlight text and be able to easily flip back and forth between pages. i really don't think the kindle or whatever is ever going to adequately replace the experience of the physical book.

    this makes the librarian inside me angry, and it's not comfortable having a person inside you shaking their fist!

    one time i checked in a book while working in the library

    some crazy dude had annotated the entire fucking thing in red pen

    what the fuck

    VALVEjunkie on
  • Options
    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2009
    apparently he disagreed with most of the book

    edit: if it makes anyone feel better, he got fined for doing it

    FyreWulff on
  • Options
    L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    the exchange students at my high school would translate words into their language in the textbooks, it was really fucking annoying

    actually if there was enough demand for it, that sort of functionality wouldn't be too hard to put on an e-reader would it?

    L|ama on
  • Options
    TankHammerTankHammer Atlanta Ghostbuster Atlanta, GARegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    apparently he disagreed with most of the book

    edit: if it makes anyone feel better, he got fined for doing it

    I had a theology class my senior year of high school that had a required reading book I really didn't like. It was called "Fundamentals of the Faith" and was basically an ignorant, self-fellating essay on why Christianity is wonderful and the best thing ever and other religions are false and having reverence for them is dumb. Our teacher obviously didn't agree with a lot of the book but he felt it was important for us to read it.

    I used the margins to poke holes in the author's arguments and point out how he didn't know jack shit about other religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam.

    I sold the book off to a new student at the end of the year anyway 8-).

    TankHammer on
  • Options
    the cheatthe cheat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2009
    somehow i just don't think a book burning session would have quite the impact with a bunch of ereaders that are displaying scandalous or controversial books.

    the cheat on
    tKfL2Yd.png?1
  • Options
    ButtcleftButtcleft Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    the cheat wrote: »
    somehow i just don't think a book burning session would have quite the impact with a bunch of ereaders that are displaying scandalous or controversial books.

    Christians dilemma.

    a e-book reader that has both harry potter and the cumulative bible works on it

    Buttcleft on
  • Options
    EdcrabEdcrab Actually a hack Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Damn that'd allow for efficiency though wouldn't it

    A single ereader packed with a hundred different scandalous novels, and then you just quietly douse it in petrol and burn it on some wasteground

    Edcrab on
    cBY55.gifbmJsl.png
  • Options
    OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    from a publishing point of view, having a static end format allows for a much greater variety in layout and cover design. that's why Penguin editions of public-domain books still sell, because they're easier to look at than a Gutenberg e-text.

    Hell, I own two or three different editions of The Waste Land, even though chapbooks offer a poor money-to-value ratio. They're just pretty. There's a solid 'book as art object' component that most people factor in instinctively - quality of the stock? typeface? leading? - that i don't think people are considering in this context.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • Options
    MonkeyfeetMonkeyfeet Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    You better believe I had an e-reader for my gameboy

    Monkeyfeet on
    sig1.jpg
  • Options
    WrenWren ninja_bird Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    from a publishing point of view, having a static end format allows for a much greater variety in layout and cover design. that's why Penguin editions of public-domain books still sell, because they're easier to look at than a Gutenberg e-text.

    Hell, I own two or three different editions of The Waste Land, even though chapbooks offer a poor money-to-value ratio. They're just pretty. There's a solid 'book as art object' component that most people factor in instinctively - quality of the stock? typeface? leading? - that i don't think people are considering in this context.

    none of these things are things defender would understand

    Wren on
    tf2sig.jpg
    TF2 - Wren BF3: Wren-fu
  • Options
    RaneadosRaneados police apologist you shouldn't have been there, obviouslyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Nogs wrote: »
    FCD wrote: »
    Physical books do have some positive traits that e-readers don't. You never have to worry about a book's battery life or possible electronic failure. I imagine some of the thinner e-readers could potential get smashed by heavy objects while you are carrying them around, whereas a book is quite sturdy.

    yes

    but can i read a regular book by an open flame?

    yes

    you can

    they did it for thousands of years, in fact

    Raneados on
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Framling wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    Well, a screen typically is going to emit light on its own, so it's hard to make it really really dark, like too-dark-to-see dark. But you can just take paper into a dark room, and there you go! It's way too dark, just like you like!

    That took me a few reads to remember the joke you're referencing, but well done.

    Also I hope you were making up that Star Wars EU shit with Teh Haxxor and whatever else. That was hilarious but please tell me nobody got paid for that.

    Defender on
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    from a publishing point of view, having a static end format allows for a much greater variety in layout and cover design. that's why Penguin editions of public-domain books still sell, because they're easier to look at than a Gutenberg e-text.

    Hell, I own two or three different editions of The Waste Land, even though chapbooks offer a poor money-to-value ratio. They're just pretty. There's a solid 'book as art object' component that most people factor in instinctively - quality of the stock? typeface? leading? - that i don't think people are considering in this context.

    I do see some charm in, like, the old leather-bound hardback thing. It just kind of looks authoritative, and has a cool appeal to it in that dimension. I guess I just see the text (including layout/structure and maybe font choice) as the majority of the value. But yeah, I can see how there's still something extra in that. I could understand wanting your favorite books in that format kind of for posterity or as a collector's item. Although I'd probably read it in electronic format in any context other than grandpa's story time by the fireplace. You know, to preserve the physical copy.

    Defender on
  • Options
    AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    well, Frank Gehry's style is certainly distinctive

    "style"

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    My immediate response was "what the fuck is that piece of shit?" and then I tried to get my eyes to tell me if it was a structure that had been melted by a sun-bomb or something.

    Defender on
  • Options
    DarmakDarmak RAGE vympyvvhyc vyctyvyRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Defender wrote: »
    Kazhiim wrote: »
    I hope e-books don't ever displace real books the way mp3 players have replaced CDs

    books are important!

    I'm not clear on how the physical part of books are important. It seems like the relevant information is the text, and in some cases the formatting of that text. The fact that it's inked inside of a block of thin wood slices does not seem to be the real value of the medium.

    from a publishing point of view, having a static end format allows for a much greater variety in layout and cover design. that's why Penguin editions of public-domain books still sell, because they're easier to look at than a Gutenberg e-text.

    Hell, I own two or three different editions of The Waste Land, even though chapbooks offer a poor money-to-value ratio. They're just pretty. There's a solid 'book as art object' component that most people factor in instinctively - quality of the stock? typeface? leading? - that i don't think people are considering in this context.

    I do see some charm in, like, the old leather-bound hardback thing. It just kind of looks authoritative, and has a cool appeal to it in that dimension. I guess I just see the text (including layout/structure and maybe font choice) as the majority of the value. But yeah, I can see how there's still something extra in that. I could understand wanting your favorite books in that format kind of for posterity or as a collector's item. Although I'd probably read it in electronic format in any context other than grandpa's story time by the fireplace. You know, to preserve the physical copy.

    Speaking of leather-bound books, these look pretty good if priced a bit high.

    Darmak on
    JtgVX0H.png
  • Options
    vsovevsove ....also yes. Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Books have texture - they have smell, they have weight, and each one is unique in a way that words on a screen, no matter how awesome that screen is, cannot really capture.

    At least, that's how I see it. I don't mind switching over to an MP3 player, but I prefer my books the old fashioned way - on paper.

    vsove on
    WATCH THIS SPACE.
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I mean you just don't wanna go too far, but I do see the added value.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCumH8LRo1A

    Defender on
  • Options
    FCDFCD Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Also, wasn't there an incident where Amazon retroactively removed a particular book from the Kindles? The people who had it removed from their Kindle were fully refunded, if I remember correctly, but it seems like any work you 'own' on a Kindle isn't very solid ownership.

    FCD on
    Gridman! Baby DAN DAN! Baby DAN DAN!
  • Options
    AbracadanielAbracadaniel Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The publisher who sold that Kindle version of 1984 didn't actually have the rights to release it on Kindle, so anyone who'd purchased it had it removed and the money refunded. It was definitely an embarrassing moment for Amazon.

    Abracadaniel on
  • Options
    FyreWulffFyreWulff YouRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2009
    Basically Amazon was between a rock and a hard place

    If they let people keep it they could have been sued for copyright infringement


    Disabling it and refunding it was the best move they could make, and I guess they'll update their procedures to check the rights trail for any books added to their store.

    FyreWulff on
  • Options
    AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    My immediate response was "what the fuck is that piece of shit?" and then I tried to get my eyes to tell me if it was a structure that had been melted by a sun-bomb or something.

    Some of his other buildings are better but I just don't care for him on the whole

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    Randall_FlaggRandall_Flagg Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I like his Guggenheim and the Stata Center at MIT, but a lot of his work really is very hit-or-miss

    it doesn't surprise me one bit that he makes hats for lady gaga

    Randall_Flagg on
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    FCD wrote: »
    Also, wasn't there an incident where Amazon retroactively removed a particular book from the Kindles? The people who had it removed from their Kindle were fully refunded, if I remember correctly, but it seems like any work you 'own' on a Kindle isn't very solid ownership.

    This sounds more like a rights/licensing issue than a general-purpose problem, but I could see how the gubmint could some day abuse this.
    Smart Hero wrote: »
    The publisher who sold that Kindle version of 1984 didn't actually have the rights to release it on Kindle, so anyone who'd purchased it had it removed and the money refunded. It was definitely an embarrassing moment for Amazon.

    This is a good defense of IP, though. But I mean really, once you give someone the data, they should own it forever. HACK THE PLANET!

    Defender on
  • Options
    AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    The Guggenheim in Bilbao is definitely very good, and I think the Walt Disney Concert Hall is okay

    I am just a stickler for a building fitting in with its surroundings in some way

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Options
    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I don't buy e-books for the same reason I don't buy e-music or e-movies - I don't like the fact that the stuff I paid for can be "revoked" at any time by the company I bought it from because of a legal issue, or they decide to discontinue the service (or just plain go out of business).

    jwalk on
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Yeah, that is a problem. Valve claims to have a plan (theoretically a no-verify version of Steam) in place in case they ever go out of business, and I would believe that they do. But that kind of behavior needs to be the default.

    Defender on
  • Options
    AbracadanielAbracadaniel Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    I actually have some concerns about that now, since Apple just recently purchased the music service Lala that I've bought songs from, but only the streaming versions, not to mention all the music it allows me to stream based on what's on my home PC.

    Abracadaniel on
  • Options
    JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Defender wrote: »
    Yeah, that is a problem. Valve claims to have a plan (theoretically a no-verify version of Steam) in place in case they ever go out of business, and I would believe that they do. But that kind of behavior needs to be the default.

    I wouldn't be surprised if future legislation were introduced to product digital media on the side of the consumer, if there isn't already. Some sort of fail safe that would prevent post-purchase accessibility for the customer to be dependent on the prosperity of the company, especially if a non-digital version of the same product exists.

    Javen on
  • Options
    Kuribo's ShoeKuribo's Shoe Kuribo's Stocking North PoleRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    the problem is, anytime you buy a piece of digital media, you do not own it. you own a license to play/read/whatever it.

    this isn't a problem with physical media, since, although it's the same basic license to do those things, you own the piece of media on which that data is stored.

    I should say isn't AS MUCH of a problem, and also add YET.

    Kuribo's Shoe on
    xmassig2.gif
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Shoe, that is also a problem. I mean you shouldn't own the copyright to it or anything crazy like that, but you should absolutely own one copy of it. It's a serious problem that it's seen this way because it annihilates fair use.

    Defender on
  • Options
    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    My problem is a book is the same size and has as much information as I would want from the size
    I don't need multiple books in one place and I don't own so many that storage is a problem
    Right now, if I want a book I can just go to my bookshelf and get it
    I don't read in the car while I'm driving
    And if I want to read away from home it takes the minimum amount of forethought to pick a book before I go
    And I don't finish the book within minutes and want another one
    In fact, most of the books I read, I only want to read once so
    I don't need a huge library wherever I go

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
    Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
  • Options
    jwalkjwalk Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    iTunes does sell DRM-less music now, I bought a couple albums but honestly it was only because I was given a gift cert... If it's my own money I still prefer to buy the CD, no question that I "own" it forever, and it's still better quality. It's even worse for movies/TV shows.. don't forget that the VAST majority (about 100%) of download/rental movies/etc only have 2-channel audio..
    2 channels, what is this 1964??

    jwalk on
  • Options
    DefenderDefender Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    BusterK wrote: »
    My problem is a book is the same size and has as much information as I would want from the size
    I don't need multiple books in one place and I don't own so many that storage is a problem
    Right now, if I want a book I can just go to my bookshelf and get it
    I don't read in the car while I'm driving
    And if I want to read away from home it takes the minimum amount of forethought to pick a book before I go
    And I don't finish the book within minutes and want another one
    In fact, most of the books I read, I only want to read once so
    I don't need a huge library wherever I go

    There are arguments in that for the opposite side.

    For example, if you only read it once, then you don't need it taking up space. Also, if you ever move, books add up pretty quickly in terms of weight and time.

    Really, a lot of these arguments sound similar to "I don't need a cell phone." Yeah, you wouldn't spontaneously combust without one, but you should have one. That's the technological "should" there.
    Like, you should not have to be in a specific place to make a call and have the other party know it's you calling. That should be available from anywhere in the universe. Similarly, like with Steam, I shouldn't have to be at my house to play the games I paid for; I should be able to play them on my friend's computer with no trouble. I shouldn't have to have the band Metallica physically in my presence if I want to hear Master of Puppets. And I shouldn't have to have a physical copy of a specific book with me if I want to read that book.

    Defender on
  • Options
    BusterKBusterK Negativity is Boring Cynicism is Cowardice Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Well, most of the books I read come from the library
    On the other hand
    I do see one advantage being able to download books from anywhere at anytime
    That sounds very convenient
    But there is still the cost issue
    As of right now, I would not regard it as convenient enough to be worth the cost
    But that may change

    BusterK on
    Visit http://www.cruzflores.com for all your Cruz Flores needs. Also listen to the podcast I do with Penguin Incarnate http://wgsgshow.podomatic.com
    Amazon Wishlist: http://www.amazon.com/BusterK/wishlist/3JPEKJGX9G54I/ref=cm_wl_search_bin_1
  • Options
    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Basically Amazon was between a rock and a hard place

    If they let people keep it they could have been sued for copyright infringement


    Disabling it and refunding it was the best move they could make, and I guess they'll update their procedures to check the rights trail for any books added to their store.

    Umm, they did. They did commit copyright infringement. Too fucking bad for them. The fact that they don't want to get in trouble for something they already did doesn't mean they get to steal it back from the people that bought it.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
  • Options
    OlivawOlivaw good name, isn't it? the foot of mt fujiRegistered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Framling wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Basically Amazon was between a rock and a hard place

    If they let people keep it they could have been sued for copyright infringement


    Disabling it and refunding it was the best move they could make, and I guess they'll update their procedures to check the rights trail for any books added to their store.

    Umm, they did. They did commit copyright infringement. Too fucking bad for them. The fact that they don't want to get in trouble for something they already did doesn't mean they get to steal it back from the people that bought it.

    Is it stealing it back if you give them their money back, though

    Olivaw on
    signature-deffo.jpg
    PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
  • Options
    FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    edited December 2009
    Olivaw wrote: »
    Framling wrote: »
    FyreWulff wrote: »
    Basically Amazon was between a rock and a hard place

    If they let people keep it they could have been sued for copyright infringement


    Disabling it and refunding it was the best move they could make, and I guess they'll update their procedures to check the rights trail for any books added to their store.

    Umm, they did. They did commit copyright infringement. Too fucking bad for them. The fact that they don't want to get in trouble for something they already did doesn't mean they get to steal it back from the people that bought it.

    Is it stealing it back if you give them their money back, though

    Yeah, sure it's stealing.

    I'm not going to buy something unless that thing is worth more to me than the amount of money I'm paying. That's how commerce works. Both sides get something that's worth more to them than what they're giving up.

    So if you go back on that transaction, you're stealing back that value. I don't care that you're also giving up the extra value you got out of the deal, if you're going to take something that's worth more to me than what you're giving me in exchange, and you don't have my explicit permission to do so, that's theft.

    Framling on
    you're = you are
    your = belonging to you

    their = belonging to them
    there = not here
    they're = they are
This discussion has been closed.