IIRC the Extreme challenges are basically Hard mode, so you don't have the spidey-sense notifier there, but regular challenges are Normal, so you do. (EDIT: Nope! The extreme challenges have the warnings on a Normal save. Haven't checked my Hard save yet, though.)
Also, the counter timing takes a while to figure out, but it's absolutely worth it. It's one of the best tools to keep your combo going, and while it can be interrupted by a hit if someone else is winding up to hit you, there's a very generous window where you can interrupt a counter you're doing immediately after the hit by countering someone who's coming at you. IIRC if you hit the button during the enemy's wind-up window, you'll counter, no matter what you were doing before.
Willeth on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
Edit: also I believe it is possible to be struck during a dodge roll or dodging over an enemy. It is impossible to be damaged while countering, and it knocks down and delays an enemy which reduces the number of threats and sets up the all-important ground takedown for massive points.
You have full invincibility when dodging over an enemy. The entire time. Which is another reason to use it liberally. The invincibility frames on the dodge roll are in the middle. I forget where exactly, but you can certainly be knocked out of the beginning and end of it. It's mostly a thing when fighting titans, for obvious reasons.
I found myself using counters less and less as I got deeper into hard. Once you've got critical strikes and the lower multiplier requirement for special moves, I'm pretty sure you can do takedowns every other hit.
The cape spin is also very helpful. It's not an invulnerable move, but the animation length is set and it will break most incoming enemy attacks as well as stunning them. Once I figured that move out I worked it into a lot of combos. Man the combat system is great. Surprisingly simple, but you feel like an absolute badass when you get it down. I remember reaching The Moment near the end of the game and just thinking "bring it."
I need to play back through on hard as well as do the challenge rooms. This game was a blast and that's the perfect way to prep for Arkham City.
I never used the cape stun as much as I should have. It's one of those moves that I knew was important, but I didn't ever take the time to really work through where I should be using it. Using it for a predictable animation length is cleverer than I am.
Whereas I struggled for a long time trying to use counter in my game early on and it failing failing failing losing my combo, getting smacked, plus I'm standing in one place while they all surround me...
One thing is to keep the group broken up as much as you can. Once you get your multiplier up a bit, you can smack dudes from clear across the room. I mean, seriously, your range is ludicrous, so use that to bounce back and forth from the guys at the opposite edges of the pack to keep them from ganging up on you too much.
You guys got me intching to 100% this. Loaded it up and three-batted Intensive Treatment Extreme. Loaded up Sewer Bat Extreme and got a flawless freeflow on the first wave, and my controller died JUST after I knocked the last dude out. I was so relieved.
Willeth on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I think you can still get hit by stuff like cinder blocks, maybe guns while you're countering. Dodging/evading is generally more useful, as building a good combo is generally all about planning (i mean, you are the goddamn batman), and it's better to have the default reflex be to dodge, since it can't break your combo while a missed counter will. Still, counters look so damn cool that I can't resist them.
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I counter the crazy guys.
I just stand there until they get to me.
I also like to running flykick them, sometimes it'll get them midjump and they go flying.
I have to say though, I'm not digging the tear he gets in the cape. I asked my girlfriend, who just finished an aeronautical degree what she thought and she said it'd heavily affect his ability to glide. Yet this is not modelled in game. Nor is there any effect like, say, wind gushing up through the gap. It's one of those "nice ideas" that unfortunately looks really silly when you actually code it in and play with it.
I'm not raging or anything, it's just a minor annoyance. It's basically the only annoyance I have with this game so that's saying something.
Although she has a better attitude than me about it. She told me not to worry about it because "Doesn't that make him more awesome? That he can do it anyway?"
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I counter the crazy guys.
I just stand there until they get to me.
I also like to running flykick them, sometimes it'll get them midjump and they go flying.
I have to say though, I'm not digging the tear he gets in the cape. I asked my girlfriend, who just finished an aeronautical degree what she thought and she said it'd heavily affect his ability to glide. Yet this is not modelled in game. Nor is there any effect like, say, wind gushing up through the gap. It's one of those "nice ideas" that unfortunately looks really silly when you actually code it in and play with it.
I'm not raging or anything, it's just a minor annoyance. It's basically the only annoyance I have with this game so that's saying something.
Although she has a better attitude than me about it. She told me not to worry about it because "Doesn't that make him more awesome? That he can do it anyway?"
Obviously the entire cape is made out of a WayneTech transparent material, and is covered with a black coating for the sole purpose of looking badass. If the coating rips a little bit, no big deal.
I have no explanation for how the coating would rip on both sides in the same place without tearing the invisible material underneath. But cmon, he's Batman
JHunz on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Yeah that's what I said, basically.
"It's nanomachines!"
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
IIRC the Extreme challenges are basically Hard mode, so you don't have the spidey-sense notifier there, but regular challenges are Normal, so you do. (EDIT: Nope! The extreme challenges have the warnings on a Normal save. Haven't checked my Hard save yet, though.)
Both the normal and the Extreme combat challenges are all the same regardless of what difficulty save file you've unlocked them on and so you always get the counter indicators. And thank god for that. I dread to imagine the Extreme challenges without them.
Kitsuna on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
You know what stops Batman from doing things? Batman. And that's only assuming that Batman had more time to plan than Batman did.
Wait, you actually think the cape is what makes Batman 'glide'? Oh how cute! Its actually Batman telling gravity to back the fuck up and the world to move.
Big Classy on
0
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
Batman trained for years hang-gliding and parachuting with torn cloth in order to prepare for just such an eventuality.
I remember an old old preview saying that the tears your cape took would start to affect your gliding abilities. It sounded way cool, but having played the game, I'm glad they didn't go that far with it. Still, the persistence of the damage as the night (knight?) goes on does a really good job of building up the oh shit, this is all one night and Batman is getting beat up
I think you can still get hit by stuff like cinder blocks, maybe guns while you're countering. Dodging/evading is generally more useful, as building a good combo is generally all about planning (i mean, you are the goddamn batman), and it's better to have the default reflex be to dodge, since it can't break your combo while a missed counter will. Still, counters look so damn cool that I can't resist them.
Yeah, the only thing that can interrupt a dodge is a Titan charging you. You can still be interrupted in the special two-button takedowns by being hit with a cinderblock, too, by the way. Those guys are by far the most annoying for me, unless you end up with two each of the shock stick guys and knife guys.
Willeth on
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Casually HardcoreOnce an Asshole. Trying to be better.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
I don't know if the 'Batman was trained by ninja' thing is canon.
But,
BATMAN WAS TRAINED BY NINJAS!
He can walk on fucking water if he wanted to.
Casually Hardcore on
0
Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
So you guys were joking about the frying? It sure scared the crap out of me when "that" happened.
Or did some people really have the game go all "literal" on them?
"Tilt the mouse to avoid Jokers gunfire"
Indeed. That one got me too.
FUCK YES. HI5 EVERYBODY!
Yeah we were kidding. I just really wanted that bit to freak you the fuck out. I remember playing on my 360 and switching the fucking thing off. I thought it overheated my console. Given the fact my console had red-ringed twice before, I wasn't taking any chances.
I'm still grinning like a madman at the thought of that actually freaking you out.
This is definitely not true. I've been smacked upside the head mid-counter a number of times, and learning when to dodge over goons instead of countering can be a big deal in some of the challenge maps.
the only way this is possible is if you are fighting the Titans, at which point anything you do is vulnerable to their charge or swing attacks, or maybe being shot by a rifle-toting guy (but i think not)
enemies will not attack you while you are countering. they politely wait for you to finish, like an episode of Hercules.
dodge roll is incredibly important, but countering is a big part of effective strategy.
Evil Multifarious on
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MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
So you guys were joking about the frying? It sure scared the crap out of me when "that" happened.
Or did some people really have the game go all "literal" on them?
"Tilt the mouse to avoid Jokers gunfire"
Indeed. That one got me too.
FUCK YES. HI5 EVERYBODY!
Yeah we were kidding. I just really wanted that bit to freak you the fuck out. I remember playing on my 360 and switching the fucking thing off. I thought it overheated my console. Given the fact my console had red-ringed twice before, I wasn't taking any chances.
I'm still grinning like a madman at the thought of that actually freaking you out.
Man, I was so confused. I was playing on the PS3:
I assumed the middle stick was the motion control. I was prepared to shake my controller like a loon.
Willeth on
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited December 2010
So
Poison Ivy.
Worst boss I've ever fought.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it color the rest of this game, but I had to stop playing halfway I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Worst boss I've ever fought.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it get to me, but I had to stop playing in the middle I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
Yeah, Poison Ivy is the only poor part IMO. Wasn't a fan that first time through and I'm not looking forward to it on Hard.
Willeth on
@vgreminders - Don't miss out on timed events in gaming! @gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Worst boss I've ever fought.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it color the rest of this game, but I had to stop playing halfway I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
I think it's funny how the bosses can somehow be less interesting then fighting some random thugs with guns. It's like Whuuuut!? A plant lady with dominance over living things? No way I'd rather punch out some more gun toating bank robbers!
randombattle on
I never asked for this!
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
Worst boss I've ever fought.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it get to me, but I had to stop playing in the middle I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
Yeah, Poison Ivy is the only poor part IMO. Wasn't a fan that first time through and I'm not looking forward to it on Hard.
That fight is so tedious. It'd probably be fine if it was about a quarter as long, or at least had decent phases or something. I hear that you can batarang her even when the thing isn't open and that makes it more bearable, but I wasn't aware of that when I was playing it.
And the bit with Croc isn't great. It isn't abrasive in the way the Ivy fight is, but it's still kind of disappointing. Everything else is crazy fantastic.
I thought Croc was worse tbh. Just the lack of anything actually going on, no fighting at all. Atleast with Ivy there was some fighting and it was a little challenging.
Worst boss I've ever fought.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it color the rest of this game, but I had to stop playing halfway I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
I am in full agreement
At least though she's only 1 and done. Bane/Titans just keep coming long after the magic is gone and feel like filler where there could be something more awesome.
Matev on
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
I thought Croc was worse tbh. Just the lack of anything actually going on, no fighting at all. Atleast with Ivy there was some fighting and it was a little challenging.
Actually I thought the opposite. Croc was good cause there isn't any mindless drawn out fighting like all the other bosses.
randombattle on
I never asked for this!
0
MongerI got the ham stink.Dallas, TXRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I forgive Croc a bit than most people seem to because I like that you know how it ends as you go into it, which is very Batman.
I think it's funny how the bosses can somehow be less interesting then fighting some random thugs with guns. It's like Whuuuut!? A plant lady with dominance over living things? No way I'd rather punch out some more gun toating bank robbers!
If I could string up plant ladies and supermutant steroid luchador freaks off a gargoyle and BRING THE FEAR OF GOD into them, I'd probably like them more than the regular thug encounters.
I forgive Croc a bit than most people seem to because I like that you know how it ends as you go into it, which is very Batman.
I actually didn't click on until the end. Like I see him do his thing in the beginning but it just didn't click with me. And then when it happened......... Man.
The bosses are pretty universally weak. I think the biggest reason for that is the amazing combat system is designed around fighting large numbers of mooks, any one of which would be hopelessly outmatched, so their only hope lies in numbers. Once you've thinned the crowd down to one or two opponents they're not even remotely a threat. The system is flat-out designed to keep single opponents from being a threat, since that would completely break the sensation of being Batman. But bosses are single opponents. So they make all sorts of changes to the rules managing the combat system to make those single opponents into a credible threat, all of which universally make things feel worse. It's why The Moment is vastly more satisfying than any boss encounter in the game, because one plays to the strengths of the combat system and the other...doesn't.
The bosses are absolutely recognized as the worst part of Arkham Asylum, and the reason why they suck is apparent as soon as you consider the game mechanics. The hard part is figuring out how to fix it. The combat in AA is an absolutely beautiful thing. It's among the best crowd fighting mechanic in any game I've played, particularly in the sense of power it gives the player (even a fully leveled Kratos doesn't feel as powerful, and that's a guy who kills gods for a living). I really don't know how you'd keep everything that makes the combat so great while also allowing for interesting one-on-one boss battles, and yet Batman's rogues gallery is so terrific it demands you go toe-to-toe with them. If I could ask Rocksteady one question, that would be it. How are you changing the boss battles to make them interesting while still keeping group combat that makes Batman feel like an unstoppable force?
Another reason why the 'boss fights' are so lamentable in AA is because five of them (not counting challenge mode) are against the damn Titan - more if you count
the skeleton Titans in the last Scarecrow hallucination or
The bosses are absolutely recognized as the worst part of Arkham Asylum, and the reason why they suck is apparent as soon as you consider the game mechanics. The hard part is figuring out how to fix it. The combat in AA is an absolutely beautiful thing. It's among the best crowd fighting mechanic in any game I've played, particularly in the sense of power it gives the player (even a fully leveled Kratos doesn't feel as powerful, and that's a guy who kills gods for a living). I really don't know how you'd keep everything that makes the combat so great while also allowing for interesting one-on-one boss battles, and yet Batman's rogues gallery is so terrific it demands you go toe-to-toe with them. If I could ask Rocksteady one question, that would be it. How are you changing the boss battles to make them interesting while still keeping group combat that makes Batman feel like an unstoppable force?
I was in favour of the way Scarecrow got around it; he's not a combat villain anyway, so they just had his 'boss battle' be a series of increasingly freaky-ass levels. Could've done with more of that.
Fighting MegaJoker was completely urrrgaghghg.
There's only one thing I think they should've added to AA, and that's an infinite combat room where just wave after wave of randomised mooks gets released at you. There's one as DLC but after a while it starts releasing, like, exclusively loons and those fuckers aren't fun to fight.
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Also, the counter timing takes a while to figure out, but it's absolutely worth it. It's one of the best tools to keep your combo going, and while it can be interrupted by a hit if someone else is winding up to hit you, there's a very generous window where you can interrupt a counter you're doing immediately after the hit by countering someone who's coming at you. IIRC if you hit the button during the enemy's wind-up window, you'll counter, no matter what you were doing before.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I found myself using counters less and less as I got deeper into hard. Once you've got critical strikes and the lower multiplier requirement for special moves, I'm pretty sure you can do takedowns every other hit.
I never used the cape stun as much as I should have. It's one of those moves that I knew was important, but I didn't ever take the time to really work through where I should be using it. Using it for a predictable animation length is cleverer than I am.
edit: One thing is to keep the group broken up as much as you can. Once you get your multiplier up a bit, you can smack dudes from clear across the room. I mean, seriously, your range is ludicrous, so use that to bounce back and forth from the guys at the opposite edges of the pack to keep them from ganging up on you too much.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I just stand there until they get to me.
I also like to running flykick them, sometimes it'll get them midjump and they go flying.
I have to say though, I'm not digging the tear he gets in the cape. I asked my girlfriend, who just finished an aeronautical degree what she thought and she said it'd heavily affect his ability to glide. Yet this is not modelled in game. Nor is there any effect like, say, wind gushing up through the gap. It's one of those "nice ideas" that unfortunately looks really silly when you actually code it in and play with it.
I'm not raging or anything, it's just a minor annoyance. It's basically the only annoyance I have with this game so that's saying something.
Although she has a better attitude than me about it. She told me not to worry about it because "Doesn't that make him more awesome? That he can do it anyway?"
"It's nanomachines!"
Both the normal and the Extreme combat challenges are all the same regardless of what difficulty save file you've unlocked them on and so you always get the counter indicators. And thank god for that. I dread to imagine the Extreme challenges without them.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I want Damien to be a playable character. Because of my desire the universe will prevent Damien from being in this game.
We might get Dick if we are lucky
Yeah, the only thing that can interrupt a dodge is a Titan charging you. You can still be interrupted in the special two-button takedowns by being hit with a cinderblock, too, by the way. Those guys are by far the most annoying for me, unless you end up with two each of the shock stick guys and knife guys.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
But,
BATMAN WAS TRAINED BY NINJAS!
He can walk on fucking water if he wanted to.
I think the canon is "Batman trained with the best everybody and is the best at everything"
Or did some people really have the game go all "literal" on them?
Indeed. That one got me too.
FUCK YES. HI5 EVERYBODY!
Yeah we were kidding. I just really wanted that bit to freak you the fuck out. I remember playing on my 360 and switching the fucking thing off. I thought it overheated my console. Given the fact my console had red-ringed twice before, I wasn't taking any chances.
I'm still grinning like a madman at the thought of that actually freaking you out.
the only way this is possible is if you are fighting the Titans, at which point anything you do is vulnerable to their charge or swing attacks, or maybe being shot by a rifle-toting guy (but i think not)
enemies will not attack you while you are countering. they politely wait for you to finish, like an episode of Hercules.
dodge roll is incredibly important, but countering is a big part of effective strategy.
Think about that.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
Man, I was so confused. I was playing on the PS3:
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
Poison Ivy.
Same boring stupid brain dead formula as the boss at the end of Godhand, only unlike that boss you don't get to go invincible and pound his ass.
It's just terrible.
I wont let it color the rest of this game, but I had to stop playing halfway I just couldn't handle the awful in the middle of this fine game. It's like someone stuck a turd in a chocolate cake.
I'll come back to it later when I can handle boredom.
Yeah, Poison Ivy is the only poor part IMO. Wasn't a fan that first time through and I'm not looking forward to it on Hard.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
yeah the bosses in this game are not so good.
edit: Damn you quick whores! And yes, Ivy is tedious.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
I never asked for this!
And the bit with Croc isn't great. It isn't abrasive in the way the Ivy fight is, but it's still kind of disappointing. Everything else is crazy fantastic.
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
I am in full agreement
Actually I thought the opposite. Croc was good cause there isn't any mindless drawn out fighting like all the other bosses.
I never asked for this!
All right, people. It is not a gerbil. It is not a hamster. It is not a guinea pig. It is a death rabbit. Death. Rabbit. Say it with me, now.
If I could string up plant ladies and supermutant steroid luchador freaks off a gargoyle and BRING THE FEAR OF GOD into them, I'd probably like them more than the regular thug encounters.
I actually didn't click on until the end. Like I see him do his thing in the beginning but it just didn't click with me. And then when it happened......... Man.
EDIT:
E2: Oh, neat, there's three of them. Damn, the attention to detail is amazing. I wonder what else I missed.
E3: Beaten! Man, I stayed up way too late.
@gamefacts - Totally and utterly true gaming facts on the regular!
The bosses are absolutely recognized as the worst part of Arkham Asylum, and the reason why they suck is apparent as soon as you consider the game mechanics. The hard part is figuring out how to fix it. The combat in AA is an absolutely beautiful thing. It's among the best crowd fighting mechanic in any game I've played, particularly in the sense of power it gives the player (even a fully leveled Kratos doesn't feel as powerful, and that's a guy who kills gods for a living). I really don't know how you'd keep everything that makes the combat so great while also allowing for interesting one-on-one boss battles, and yet Batman's rogues gallery is so terrific it demands you go toe-to-toe with them. If I could ask Rocksteady one question, that would be it. How are you changing the boss battles to make them interesting while still keeping group combat that makes Batman feel like an unstoppable force?
I was in favour of the way Scarecrow got around it; he's not a combat villain anyway, so they just had his 'boss battle' be a series of increasingly freaky-ass levels. Could've done with more of that.
Fighting MegaJoker was completely urrrgaghghg.
There's only one thing I think they should've added to AA, and that's an infinite combat room where just wave after wave of randomised mooks gets released at you. There's one as DLC but after a while it starts releasing, like, exclusively loons and those fuckers aren't fun to fight.